Looking for ideas with this multi class. Specifically how many levels of each did you take? Did you go back and forth or ditch one class after you got what you needed from the other?
It really depends on what you are looking for. Are you looking for a Rogue with some magic options? A warlock with some bonus actions to use and extra damage? There could be some really cool builds for RP and for min/max.
Not to sure yet. I've played stand alone Warlock and Rogue. For flavor, it sounds cool to start off as a rogue and after few levels bind myself to a patron to gain more power. Just polling to see what archetypes combos everyone is using. Rogue with magic maybe the route I take.
You could do the see through magical darkness invocation and probably go down the pact of the Archfey to gain greater invis all while casting darkness to be a super sneaky Rogue. Hexblade adds damage and a specter. Fiend adds temp HP and blast options, while Great Old One will give you utility which pairs nicely with the skills the Rogue gets for Town encounters. Celestial would give healing and in my opinion is the weakest to pair with the Rogue but still could be interesting nonetheless. The Undying could be unique if you were like playing up a story where you died and came back to life and now serve a patron to be harder to kill. Just my initial thoughts on this multi-class build, I don't think I would take too many levels in the Warlock maybe like 6 to 9 (enough to get 5th level spells if you wanted more spell options), then jump back into Rogue.
So, as the other have mentioned it's all about trade offs. Remember every two levels of not Rogue you lose 1d6 Sneak Attack, plus all the other crazy features of Rogue.
I'll assume you're A Rogue, who multiclasses into Warlock, because that seemed to be what you're talking about. Question 1: What kind of Rogue are you? Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Inquisitive, Mastermind, Scout, Swashbuckler, or Thief? What weapons do you use: Rapier, Two Weapon Fighting, or Ranged?
For example if your a Ranged Rogue you really don't care about Eldritch Blast because it doesn't trigger Sneak Attack, on the other-hand if you're Rapier or Two Weapon Fighting and you can't reach melee then Eldritch Blast might be a nice way to contribute to damage.
Invocations as another interesting thing. Armor of Shadows for 13+Dex AC or are you happy with Studded Leather for 12+Dex? Devil's Sight gives you 120' of Darvision in Darkness, which is nice if you don't have Darkvision naturally and also good because it cancels out "Darkness" spell. It's a huge upgrade to races without Darkvision and a minor upgrade for those with it. Now unless you're a Tiefling (can cast Darkness as a racial trait) casting Darkness is going to cost you a 3 lvls of Warlock to get the Darkness spell. Fiendish Vigor means you'll always have 5-8 temp HP. Beguiling Influence gives you training in Deception & Persuasion, for even more skills!
Pact: Blade, Tome, or Chains. I'd personally say for a Rogue Blade or Chains are my favorite. My personal favorite is Chains especially with Voice of the Chain Master invocation. It creates in incredible scout. I think Blade is a little boring and you need to sink 5 lvls into Warlock to get Extra Attack and remember Sneak Attack only applies to 1 attack a turn.
Patron: Hexblade is probably the most obviously powerful. You can curse a target, get more damage against them, a higher crit chance (with all those delicious Sneak Attack dice), and you regain HP on its death. You have access to medium armor and shields (you'll want Warcaster if you have a Shield) and all martial weapons. If for some reason your Charisma is higher then your Dex, you can attack with that. Fiend is the next most interesting in combat, giving you Temp HP every time you drop an enemy. Old Ones isn't useful in combat, but can be useful out of combat. The limiter is that Awakened Mind is 1 way telepathy, they understand you, but you don't necessarily understand them. Celestial gives you some cantrips and a little healing. Fey gives an AoE charmed or frightened for a turn. Undying gives you cantrip, Adv vs Diseases, and undead have trouble attacking you.
Spells: I'll assume your first choice is Hex, 2nd choice might be Hellish Rebuke or something useful out of combat.
I was thinking the same thing just was trying figure at what level to cut off Warlock. But yes I'm leaning toward more Rogue based. The darkness/devil's sight/sneak attack damage would be amazing.
Thanks for the great information. I'm planning on being an assassin. So I was thinking dipping into warlock for the darkness/devil's sight combo and combine that with sneak attack damage. That's where I'm at now in brainstorming.
I will give you a bit of warning. Devil's Sight in Magical Darkness isn't fool proof. You have Advantage, they have DisAdvantage. They can't target you with a lot of spells because they can't find you to target you as you need a Clear Path to the target. If you have a Bonus Action available for Cunning Action you can Hide so they can't even try to target you without wasting their Action doing a Spot. Boots of Elvenkind make it so you don't make a sound.
It's a cool idea in a "white room scenario", but honestly you will not use it nearly as much as you think. The Reason? You play this game with a party and it will bore the ever living hell out of your party members, if all you ever do is cast Darkness on yourself and "solo" the encounter.
There are exceptions. In a small party (Monk/Warlock (me), a Bard, and Paladin) The Bard and Paladin were completing one objective and I was stuck soloing a high level Cleric... I used this to Solo the Cleric and completely lock him down. He had Dispel Magic, I had more castings. In another game I used this combo to block line of sight between an enemy wizard and my party, so party members could heal without taking damage and regroup in the middle of combat.
That said, it's a great "Ace Card" to have, but just don't play it constantly or you'll really annoy your party.
I created a Rogue Swashbuckler/Warlock Hexblade awhile ago all for one key attack combo. First of all weild a rapier and select Booming Blade as aa cantrip. Then find a target that you can attack where you wouldn't have another enemy within 5ft of you. Cast Booming Blade, which since it uses a weapon attack Sneak attack is triggered. Then because of Fancy Footwork Swashbuckler ability you can move away a few feet from the target and not draw a AOO. On the target's next turn tell will have to trigger Booming Blade's secondary damage for them to get in range again.
Oh and the Pact of Tome invocation Aspect of the Moon makes it where you don't need sleep and you just need 8 hours of light activity for a long rest. So you can be the night watch for the entire night while also getting a head start on making the party's breakfast.
As far as Warlock Pacts, I personally recommend Pact of Tome. If you pick up the Invocation Book of Ancient Secrets, you get allot of utility since you can now learn and cast every Ritual Spell that matches your highest spell level. Pact of Blade is mostly useful for two handed weapons and during multiattacks with Thirsting Blade, but remember sneak attack can only be triggered once per round. Pact of Chain gives you Find Familiar, which is a ritual spell, and the Voice of the Chain Master invocation makes the familiar more useful as a scout.
Edit: Just realized that FullMetalBunny already brought up that Pact of Blade isn't too useful for Rogues, he also brought of the Familiar scout use for Pact of Chain. I will point out that if the scouting is less than 100ft from you then you can do it with the basic familiar from the Find Familiar ritual. However for greater than 100ft then Pact of Chain is more useful since 3 of the 4 special familiars for Pact of Chain can turn invisible as a creature action.
This is on of those combinations that I find fascinating and has a ton wiggle room to work in damn near any setting.
If your character is focused on being a face in Social/RP based game I would recommend going Mastermind - Great Old One The combination of Master of Intrigue and Awakened Mind can lead to alot of Shenanigans if you DM allows you to use a 'voice' other than your own when speaking telepathically. Combine this with Mask of Many Faces Invocation really causes chaos. Pacts could be Chain, with a Whip for a weapon if you want more in combat focus since you can cast Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade from 10' away and get sneak attack. Chain Pact with a Pesudo Dragon or Sprite would help a great deal with social interactions.
Mastermind-Celestial can also be played as charismatic Faith Healer. Trading telepathy for healing is a fairly even trade, and the free cantrip is always nice for when you come across a target with high AC that just can hit. Its more of an aesthetic build.
Swashbuckler-Hexblade is great for melee all around.
Inquisitive-Ravenqueen work very well if you want a rouge thats checking for traps and dungeon crawling, but isnt the best for damage and RPing.
Devil's Sight in Magical Darkness isn't fool proof. You have Advantage, they have DisAdvantage. They can't target you with a lot of spells because they can't find you to target you as you need a Clear Path to the target.
To clarify, the "clear path to the target" rule is talking about total cover, not visibility. If a spell doesn't require sight, they know where you are and you don't have total cover, they can certainly target you. A lot of spells require sight, but attack roll and area of effect spells usually don't. The latter are the real problem; enemies don't need to see you or know where you are to fireball you. You do get protection against counterspell which can be useful sometimes, but be wary of dispel magic.
I agree that the rest of the party is the limiting factor to the strategy. In cramped situations, it can be difficult to place darkness someplace where it won't interfere with other party members.
This is on of those combinations that I find fascinating and has a ton wiggle room to work in damn near any setting.
If your character is focused on being a face in Social/RP based game I would recommend going Mastermind - Great Old One The combination of Master of Intrigue and Awakened Mind can lead to alot of Shenanigans if you DM allows you to use a 'voice' other than your own when speaking telepathically. Combine this with Mask of Many Faces Invocation really causes chaos. Pacts could be Chain, with a Whip for a weapon if you want more in combat focus since you can cast Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade from 10' away and get sneak attack. Chain Pact with a Pesudo Dragon or Sprite would help a great deal with social interactions.
Mastermind-Celestial can also be played as charismatic Faith Healer. Trading telepathy for healing is a fairly even trade, and the free cantrip is always nice for when you come across a target with high AC that just can hit. Its more of an aesthetic build.
Swashbuckler-Hexblade is great for melee all around.
Inquisitive-Ravenqueen work very well if you want a rouge thats checking for traps and dungeon crawling, but isnt the best for damage and RPing.
The only issue with this is that the melee cantrips specifically have a range of 5 feet, so you'd have to pick up the Spell Sniper feat to be able to cast it from 10 feet away. Here's the Sage Advice, just to make sure.
Oh wow... Ive been using this with a BugBear to utilize this cantrip from 15' away and kiting targets. We used this strategy to defeat the Shambling Mound in CoS Death House.
Is it moraly wrong that I hope the rules lawyer in my group doesnt see this?
That's one thing that always confused me, since it uses a melee weapon attack it should have the same range as the weapon. I guess they did it to balance.
As long as the DM allows it, I'd say it's fine... unless he's the rules lawyer. If it's been working for you guys thus far I think you're good though. Fingers crossed they don't frequent the Warlock forums.
The Dm isnt a rules lawyer thankfully, he lets us wiggle about if our reasoning is solid and we act respectfully. Our power gaming Gary-Stu is the rules lawyer...
So I'm fiddling with this idea my self. 3 lock gives eldritch blast, take invis grasp of hadar and agonize blast. 3 rogue swash. Then splash 2 fight for action surge. Take 5 sorce for haste spell and 13 nat ac. Haste two elder blast pulling your chosen target from his friends sneak attack for kill
One of my old characters was a Dex-base BladeLock (Fey patron) multi-classed with Swashbuckler. It was all kinds of fun. Everything you get in the first three levels is useful for a BladeLock, and you still have 17 levels of Warlock so you end up with four spell slots at level 20.
Looking for ideas with this multi class. Specifically how many levels of each did you take? Did you go back and forth or ditch one class after you got what you needed from the other?
It really depends on what you are looking for. Are you looking for a Rogue with some magic options? A warlock with some bonus actions to use and extra damage? There could be some really cool builds for RP and for min/max.
Not to sure yet. I've played stand alone Warlock and Rogue. For flavor, it sounds cool to start off as a rogue and after few levels bind myself to a patron to gain more power. Just polling to see what archetypes combos everyone is using. Rogue with magic maybe the route I take.
You could do the see through magical darkness invocation and probably go down the pact of the Archfey to gain greater invis all while casting darkness to be a super sneaky Rogue. Hexblade adds damage and a specter. Fiend adds temp HP and blast options, while Great Old One will give you utility which pairs nicely with the skills the Rogue gets for Town encounters. Celestial would give healing and in my opinion is the weakest to pair with the Rogue but still could be interesting nonetheless. The Undying could be unique if you were like playing up a story where you died and came back to life and now serve a patron to be harder to kill. Just my initial thoughts on this multi-class build, I don't think I would take too many levels in the Warlock maybe like 6 to 9 (enough to get 5th level spells if you wanted more spell options), then jump back into Rogue.
So, as the other have mentioned it's all about trade offs.
Remember every two levels of not Rogue you lose 1d6 Sneak Attack, plus all the other crazy features of Rogue.
I'll assume you're A Rogue, who multiclasses into Warlock, because that seemed to be what you're talking about.
Question 1: What kind of Rogue are you? Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Inquisitive, Mastermind, Scout, Swashbuckler, or Thief?
What weapons do you use: Rapier, Two Weapon Fighting, or Ranged?
For example if your a Ranged Rogue you really don't care about Eldritch Blast because it doesn't trigger Sneak Attack, on the other-hand if you're Rapier or Two Weapon Fighting and you can't reach melee then Eldritch Blast might be a nice way to contribute to damage.
Invocations as another interesting thing.
Armor of Shadows for 13+Dex AC or are you happy with Studded Leather for 12+Dex?
Devil's Sight gives you 120' of Darvision in Darkness, which is nice if you don't have Darkvision naturally and also good because it cancels out "Darkness" spell. It's a huge upgrade to races without Darkvision and a minor upgrade for those with it. Now unless you're a Tiefling (can cast Darkness as a racial trait) casting Darkness is going to cost you a 3 lvls of Warlock to get the Darkness spell.
Fiendish Vigor means you'll always have 5-8 temp HP.
Beguiling Influence gives you training in Deception & Persuasion, for even more skills!
Pact:
Blade, Tome, or Chains. I'd personally say for a Rogue Blade or Chains are my favorite. My personal favorite is Chains especially with Voice of the Chain Master invocation. It creates in incredible scout. I think Blade is a little boring and you need to sink 5 lvls into Warlock to get Extra Attack and remember Sneak Attack only applies to 1 attack a turn.
Patron:
Hexblade is probably the most obviously powerful. You can curse a target, get more damage against them, a higher crit chance (with all those delicious Sneak Attack dice), and you regain HP on its death. You have access to medium armor and shields (you'll want Warcaster if you have a Shield) and all martial weapons. If for some reason your Charisma is higher then your Dex, you can attack with that.
Fiend is the next most interesting in combat, giving you Temp HP every time you drop an enemy.
Old Ones isn't useful in combat, but can be useful out of combat. The limiter is that Awakened Mind is 1 way telepathy, they understand you, but you don't necessarily understand them.
Celestial gives you some cantrips and a little healing.
Fey gives an AoE charmed or frightened for a turn.
Undying gives you cantrip, Adv vs Diseases, and undead have trouble attacking you.
Spells:
I'll assume your first choice is Hex, 2nd choice might be Hellish Rebuke or something useful out of combat.
I was thinking the same thing just was trying figure at what level to cut off Warlock. But yes I'm leaning toward more Rogue based. The darkness/devil's sight/sneak attack damage would be amazing.
Thanks for the great information. I'm planning on being an assassin. So I was thinking dipping into warlock for the darkness/devil's sight combo and combine that with sneak attack damage. That's where I'm at now in brainstorming.
I will give you a bit of warning.
Devil's Sight in Magical Darkness isn't fool proof. You have Advantage, they have DisAdvantage. They can't target you with a lot of spells because they can't find you to target you as you need a Clear Path to the target. If you have a Bonus Action available for Cunning Action you can Hide so they can't even try to target you without wasting their Action doing a Spot. Boots of Elvenkind make it so you don't make a sound.
It's a cool idea in a "white room scenario", but honestly you will not use it nearly as much as you think.
The Reason? You play this game with a party and it will bore the ever living hell out of your party members, if all you ever do is cast Darkness on yourself and "solo" the encounter.
There are exceptions. In a small party (Monk/Warlock (me), a Bard, and Paladin) The Bard and Paladin were completing one objective and I was stuck soloing a high level Cleric... I used this to Solo the Cleric and completely lock him down. He had Dispel Magic, I had more castings. In another game I used this combo to block line of sight between an enemy wizard and my party, so party members could heal without taking damage and regroup in the middle of combat.
That said, it's a great "Ace Card" to have, but just don't play it constantly or you'll really annoy your party.
Great advice. I'll definitely use it as an ace card. Great combo to have.
I created a Rogue Swashbuckler/Warlock Hexblade awhile ago all for one key attack combo. First of all weild a rapier and select Booming Blade as aa cantrip. Then find a target that you can attack where you wouldn't have another enemy within 5ft of you. Cast Booming Blade, which since it uses a weapon attack Sneak attack is triggered. Then because of Fancy Footwork Swashbuckler ability you can move away a few feet from the target and not draw a AOO. On the target's next turn tell will have to trigger Booming Blade's secondary damage for them to get in range again.
Oh and the Pact of Tome invocation Aspect of the Moon makes it where you don't need sleep and you just need 8 hours of light activity for a long rest. So you can be the night watch for the entire night while also getting a head start on making the party's breakfast.
As far as Warlock Pacts, I personally recommend Pact of Tome. If you pick up the Invocation Book of Ancient Secrets, you get allot of utility since you can now learn and cast every Ritual Spell that matches your highest spell level. Pact of Blade is mostly useful for two handed weapons and during multiattacks with Thirsting Blade, but remember sneak attack can only be triggered once per round. Pact of Chain gives you Find Familiar, which is a ritual spell, and the Voice of the Chain Master invocation makes the familiar more useful as a scout.
Edit: Just realized that FullMetalBunny already brought up that Pact of Blade isn't too useful for Rogues, he also brought of the Familiar scout use for Pact of Chain. I will point out that if the scouting is less than 100ft from you then you can do it with the basic familiar from the Find Familiar ritual. However for greater than 100ft then Pact of Chain is more useful since 3 of the 4 special familiars for Pact of Chain can turn invisible as a creature action.
This is on of those combinations that I find fascinating and has a ton wiggle room to work in damn near any setting.
If your character is focused on being a face in Social/RP based game I would recommend going Mastermind - Great Old One The combination of Master of Intrigue and Awakened Mind can lead to alot of Shenanigans if you DM allows you to use a 'voice' other than your own when speaking telepathically. Combine this with Mask of Many Faces Invocation really causes chaos. Pacts could be Chain, with a Whip for a weapon if you want more in combat focus since you can cast Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade from 10' away and get sneak attack. Chain Pact with a Pesudo Dragon or Sprite would help a great deal with social interactions.
Mastermind-Celestial can also be played as charismatic Faith Healer. Trading telepathy for healing is a fairly even trade, and the free cantrip is always nice for when you come across a target with high AC that just can hit. Its more of an aesthetic build.
Swashbuckler-Hexblade is great for melee all around.
Inquisitive-Ravenqueen work very well if you want a rouge thats checking for traps and dungeon crawling, but isnt the best for damage and RPing.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Oh wow... Ive been using this with a BugBear to utilize this cantrip from 15' away and kiting targets. We used this strategy to defeat the Shambling Mound in CoS Death House.
Is it moraly wrong that I hope the rules lawyer in my group doesnt see this?
That's one thing that always confused me, since it uses a melee weapon attack it should have the same range as the weapon. I guess they did it to balance.
As long as the DM allows it, I'd say it's fine... unless he's the rules lawyer. If it's been working for you guys thus far I think you're good though. Fingers crossed they don't frequent the Warlock forums.
The Dm isnt a rules lawyer thankfully, he lets us wiggle about if our reasoning is solid and we act respectfully. Our power gaming Gary-Stu is the rules lawyer...
So I'm fiddling with this idea my self. 3 lock gives eldritch blast, take invis grasp of hadar and agonize blast. 3 rogue swash. Then splash 2 fight for action surge. Take 5 sorce for haste spell and 13 nat ac. Haste two elder blast pulling your chosen target from his friends sneak attack for kill
One of my old characters was a Dex-base BladeLock (Fey patron) multi-classed with Swashbuckler. It was all kinds of fun. Everything you get in the first three levels is useful for a BladeLock, and you still have 17 levels of Warlock so you end up with four spell slots at level 20.
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
I did 5 levels in Hexblade, and just finished 3 levels of Rogue Swashbuckler, and now back to Warlock... so, my character should be fairly slippery.