Dude, relax, I wont tell your DM. Just read all the rules together and try to understand how they fit together.
I'm perfectly relaxed. I'm telling you: you don't read the rules together. That's not how it works. Wizard spellbook copying has zero to do with Book of Ancient Secrets.
EDIT: Obviously your group is free to do as they wish. But RAW, Warlocks with BoAS simply take ritual spells they find and just copy them, no check, Arcana proficiency not required.
My question is : does the found spell have to be written in order to be copied, or can the Warlock witness the ritual and write down what went on?
Example. A Twilight Cleric in my party has Leomund's Tiny Hut. My Warlock is a Tomelock. And a Ranger in my party has Ritual Caster (why, I'm not sure but hey).
As it stands, RAW, the Ranger cannot witness the Cleric cast the Hut and then copy it, but my Warlock should be able to as they have seen the spell (RAW, BoAS does not say the spell must be written, merely found). My Warlock then writes it into his book, and the Ranger then copies my book into his own.
My question is : does the found spell have to be written in order to be copied, or can the Warlock witness the ritual and write down what went on?
Example. A Twilight Cleric in my party has Leomund's Tiny Hut. My Warlock is a Tomelock. And a Ranger in my party has Ritual Caster (why, I'm not sure but hey).
As it stands, RAW, the Ranger cannot witness the Cleric cast the Hut and then copy it, but my Warlock should be able to as they have seen the spell (RAW, BoAS does not say the spell must be written, merely found). My Warlock then writes it into his book, and the Ranger then copies my book into his own.
The fact the BoAS is written with the same wording as the wizard version is what matters here. They are treated the same except that the warlock doesn't need to worry about what spell list a spell comes from.
The specific wording is found on the spell scroll item. When a spell is copied from a spell scroll there is a check. It does, however, also specify that a wizard spell may be copied. This implies that non-wizard spell scrolls cannot be copied
The fact the BoAS is written with the same wording as the wizard version is what matters here. They are treated the same except that the warlock doesn't need to worry about what spell list a spell comes from.
There is no "wizard version." There's Book of Ancient Secrets, and there's the wizard feature of having a Spellbook. The PHB text detailing a wizard spellbook states:
"When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it."
Meanwhile, BoAS states:
"On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell’s level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell."
That's not even the same wording. They're two distinctly different features, so there's no basis to say "they are treated the same."
The specific wording is found on the spell scroll item. When a spell is copied from a spell scroll there is a check. It does, however, also specify that a wizard spell may be copied. This implies that non-wizard spell scrolls cannot be copied
Yes, if the feature you're using to copy the spell scroll is the text describing how spell scrolls work, then there is a check, and there is the explicit limitation to wizard spells:
However, warlocks aren't using that text when they copy a spell scroll to their Book of Shadows. They use the text from BoAS, which makes no reference whatsoever to the type of spell found, whether spell scroll, spell in a spellbook, etc. Again, that text is:
"On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell’s level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell."
When a warlock finds other ritual spells, with no limitation on type, they can add them to their book provided they are of an appropriate level, and they have the time (and gold/rare inks.) That's it. No spell list limitations. No checks demanded. Any gaming group can change that if they wish, but that's the RAW.
There is or course a check of a sort. It's just that the one who makes the check, is the Warlock's Patron, and given the power of a Patron, it's probably a Passive check. It's just like everything else about a Warlock.
There are a weird hybrid sort of thing. They are a little bit like a Cleric, mixed with Sorcerer, a touch of Wizard, and a Bard. None of their powers are innate at first, but their Patron modifies them, kind of like changing their race with Infusions of the Patron's power. Their Patron is supposed to be something less than a god, but apparently that line is saying that anything that doesn't live in the Outer or Planes or the Outland isn't a god. You can't have Thor as your Patron, but you can have the Raven Queen. Warlocks don't get spells from any other source than their Patron, and they have little control over them. For example, Pact Slots spells are always upcast to their maximum Warlock level.
I'm pretty sure that a Wizard can't learn a thing from your Book of Ancient Secrets that they couldn't normally cast. You, can't learn anything from their spellbook either, but your Patron sure can. Then your Patron gives you the details, and you write them down, all it costs you is the same amount of materials, time, and gold as a Wizard.
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You are 100% correct.
My question is : does the found spell have to be written in order to be copied, or can the Warlock witness the ritual and write down what went on?
Example. A Twilight Cleric in my party has Leomund's Tiny Hut. My Warlock is a Tomelock. And a Ranger in my party has Ritual Caster (why, I'm not sure but hey).
As it stands, RAW, the Ranger cannot witness the Cleric cast the Hut and then copy it, but my Warlock should be able to as they have seen the spell (RAW, BoAS does not say the spell must be written, merely found). My Warlock then writes it into his book, and the Ranger then copies my book into his own.
Thoughts?
Found my answer, figured I'd share it
"Finding" means finding a written copy of a spell. (Tweet from JeremyECrawford)
The fact the BoAS is written with the same wording as the wizard version is what matters here. They are treated the same except that the warlock doesn't need to worry about what spell list a spell comes from.
The specific wording is found on the spell scroll item. When a spell is copied from a spell scroll there is a check. It does, however, also specify that a wizard spell may be copied. This implies that non-wizard spell scrolls cannot be copied
There is no "wizard version." There's Book of Ancient Secrets, and there's the wizard feature of having a Spellbook. The PHB text detailing a wizard spellbook states:
"When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it."
Meanwhile, BoAS states:
"On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell’s level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell."
That's not even the same wording. They're two distinctly different features, so there's no basis to say "they are treated the same."
Yes, if the feature you're using to copy the spell scroll is the text describing how spell scrolls work, then there is a check, and there is the explicit limitation to wizard spells:
However, warlocks aren't using that text when they copy a spell scroll to their Book of Shadows. They use the text from BoAS, which makes no reference whatsoever to the type of spell found, whether spell scroll, spell in a spellbook, etc. Again, that text is:
"On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell’s level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell."
When a warlock finds other ritual spells, with no limitation on type, they can add them to their book provided they are of an appropriate level, and they have the time (and gold/rare inks.) That's it. No spell list limitations. No checks demanded. Any gaming group can change that if they wish, but that's the RAW.
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There is or course a check of a sort. It's just that the one who makes the check, is the Warlock's Patron, and given the power of a Patron, it's probably a Passive check. It's just like everything else about a Warlock.
There are a weird hybrid sort of thing. They are a little bit like a Cleric, mixed with Sorcerer, a touch of Wizard, and a Bard. None of their powers are innate at first, but their Patron modifies them, kind of like changing their race with Infusions of the Patron's power. Their Patron is supposed to be something less than a god, but apparently that line is saying that anything that doesn't live in the Outer or Planes or the Outland isn't a god. You can't have Thor as your Patron, but you can have the Raven Queen. Warlocks don't get spells from any other source than their Patron, and they have little control over them. For example, Pact Slots spells are always upcast to their maximum Warlock level.
I'm pretty sure that a Wizard can't learn a thing from your Book of Ancient Secrets that they couldn't normally cast. You, can't learn anything from their spellbook either, but your Patron sure can. Then your Patron gives you the details, and you write them down, all it costs you is the same amount of materials, time, and gold as a Wizard.
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