I’ve gone back and forth in my Fighter/Celestial Warlock build for a while now and was inspired by a certain pair of dudes to give dual wield another shot. The only problem is it’s all based on charisma and constitution, so I have an odd charisma number until level 19.
My starting stats are strength 8, dexterity 13, constitution 15, intellect 10, wisdom 10 and charisma 15. My first feat is dual wielder which bumps my dexterity up to 14. From there it’s +2 Charisma, +2 Constitution, +2 Constitution and Boon of Fortitude with a +1 to Charisma. I want Searing Vengeance to restore as much HP as possible, hence my high Constitution being a priority.
I guess my question is if sacrificing 1 in Charisma is worth it for a dual wielder build? I’m open to suggestions/alternatives.
I'd ask why is getting a 20 con that important to you searing vengeance comes in at level 15 for you and isn't that amazing. You have a level of fighter so you can go medium armor and with the 14 dex you will have a normal dual wield AC, do you really need to go that heavy into con. hit points and a con saves are great, but do you really want it at the expense of worse to hit, damage, spell accuracy and saves etc. Don't get me wrong 285 is a lot of hit points but if you settled for a end con of 16 you'd have 245, is that really so much worse.
Personally I'd even drop to 205 drop lessons of the 1st one take pact of the tome for shillelagh and use a club with your pact nick weapon and get my chr to 20 by level 12. I understand the searing vengeance thing, but is coming back with 102 instead of 142 once a day max really that much of a game changer vs doing consistent damage round over round your entire career.
Maybe your table is different than mine and you really do burn through hit points that often and that fast that its worth it, but I don't know.
Me with that stat spread I'd ignore con the entire campaign, take war caster at warlock 8 to get chr to 18, get my chr to 20 at 12 and if not tough and lessons of the first one id find another invocation to drop to get me pact of the tome so all of my attacks are chr based.
Shillelagh just makes a club or quarterstaff use your casting stat for attack/damage bonuses and then makes them do more damage as you level up, but it works and attacks just like a normal attack. You use a bonus action round one to enchant the club with the spell and beat people up. You'd lose one attack round one, as you used your bonus action for that but after that you will be hitting more often(maybe its not a vex weapon) and for more damage. Though it changes your weapon mastery from vex to slow. I personally think if used tactically you will get more out of the slow effect but that will require some teamwork most likely. Vex is easy to use, but when your off hand club starts hitting for d10 or d12 I think that outweighs the benefit from vex by far.
is this something i could use before combat starts?
also, is it worth taking pact of the chain when i can get find familiar through pact of the tome?
lastly, what level should i consider taking Pact of the Tome?
There are a couple benefits to Pact of the Chain over the basic Find Familiar spell. The biggest one being that you get access to some familiar forms unique to Pact, like the Pseudodragon, Skeleton, and the Imp. A couple of the new forms have some very useful abilities that the basic beast forms lack, like turning invisible for scouting.
Having the Pact of the Chain also unlocks the ability to use some of the follow-up invocations, like Investment of the Chain Master (allows bonus action to command familiar to attack), or Voice of the Chain Master (unlimited range to see through familiar senses, can use own voice through familiar). Whether or not these benefits are worth depends on the character you are looking to build.
Voice of the Chain Master is no longer available in the ‘24 rules unfortunately. Or a least that’s what I assume since I haven’t been able to access it. As for Investment of the Chain Master, I’ve been relying on my imp’a invisibility to give me advantage on the first attack followed by vex to continue giving me advantage, so him attacking would break that invisibility. Still, it attacking would allow for powerful attacks at beginner levels, so i took Pact of the Chain at level 2 (Warlock 1) to use it’s attacks instead of my own for the first few levels. Does that make sense, or should I start with Pact of the Blade instead?
is this something i could use before combat starts?
also, is it worth taking pact of the chain when i can get find familiar through pact of the tome?
lastly, what level should i consider taking Pact of the Tome?
It lasts a minute so you can do it before combat to a limited degree, as for pact of the chain it depends on how you plan on using it. A invisible scout with hands is useful, but if you end up mainly using it for the help action for advantage, yeah a owl or whatever will be fine instead. And personally I'd try to get tome by 8th warlock level that is where you will see a gap between your dex and chr start really showing especially since at level 5 your club will start doing 1d8, and will soon be 1d10. If your DM chooses magic items based on what he sees players using, maybe earlier.
From experience at various tables I will say pact of the chain and invisible familiars. Check with your DM and other players for how far they are okay with you pushing it. If someone is playing a sneak character, getting overshadowed by your imp familiar might make the game less fun. The character will have a better stealth, but they wont be constantly invisible, tiny, flying shapeshifter as well most likely unless the sneak is your druid. And I have known a lot of DMs who just hate dealing with it. Its tiny, it has a decent stealth, can change it to innocuous forms, is invisible, has hands etc. You can do a lot with it, but its a group game and if that a lot ends up being disruptive its not really worth it.
I understand. So far I’ve just been using my warlock for one shots, so I don’t think it matters as much, but I’ll be careful.
i’ll try making that adjustment on when I get pact of the tome. I was thinking Guidance, Shillelagh, and Shape Water for my cantrips, is that ok? Also, what rituals would you recommend to start out with?
Depends on party composition but speak with animals and comprehend languages comes up a lot in our games. They are one of the few rituals that are still useful at level 20.
Pact of the chain as mentioned give you more creatures and unlike the spell, you can use them to attack. Another invocation at higher level allows you to have them originate spells, so they can stay invisible because you are casting the spells..
The other thing about the Pact of the Chain Invocation is that (assuming you have 10gp of burning incense to spare on hand) it lets you cast Find Familiar in a single Magic Action, whereas obtaining Find Familiar through Pact of the Tome requires the 70-minute ritual (and the Incense)
So if your Pact of the Chain familiar dies in combat, and you're willing to spend an Action and the incense on it, you can have it back on your next Turn. Or if you need to swap its form for something more appropriate/useful on the fly.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Depends on party composition but speak with animals and comprehend languages comes up a lot in our games. They are one of the few rituals that are still useful at level 20.
I took Magic Initiate on my Thri-Kreen Paladin to get Comprehend Languages. The spell allows him to understand all languages, and his racial Thri-Kreen Telepathy allows anyone to understand him as long as they know a language, so he now can talk to anyone in any language. Pretty damn useful.
I definitely changed out my first level spells for comprehend languages and speak with animals. I did leave hex over detect magic though.
It i resummon my familiar and have investment of the chain master, can i have my familiar attack using my bonus action on the same turn that it is summoned?
www.dndbeyond.com/sheet-pdfs/Actionsparda_140484069.pdf
I’ve gone back and forth in my Fighter/Celestial Warlock build for a while now and was inspired by a certain pair of dudes to give dual wield another shot. The only problem is it’s all based on charisma and constitution, so I have an odd charisma number until level 19.
My starting stats are strength 8, dexterity 13, constitution 15, intellect 10, wisdom 10 and charisma 15. My first feat is dual wielder which bumps my dexterity up to 14. From there it’s +2 Charisma, +2 Constitution, +2 Constitution and Boon of Fortitude with a +1 to Charisma. I want Searing Vengeance to restore as much HP as possible, hence my high Constitution being a priority.
I guess my question is if sacrificing 1 in Charisma is worth it for a dual wielder build? I’m open to suggestions/alternatives.
I'd ask why is getting a 20 con that important to you searing vengeance comes in at level 15 for you and isn't that amazing. You have a level of fighter so you can go medium armor and with the 14 dex you will have a normal dual wield AC, do you really need to go that heavy into con. hit points and a con saves are great, but do you really want it at the expense of worse to hit, damage, spell accuracy and saves etc. Don't get me wrong 285 is a lot of hit points but if you settled for a end con of 16 you'd have 245, is that really so much worse.
Personally I'd even drop to 205 drop lessons of the 1st one take pact of the tome for shillelagh and use a club with your pact nick weapon and get my chr to 20 by level 12. I understand the searing vengeance thing, but is coming back with 102 instead of 142 once a day max really that much of a game changer vs doing consistent damage round over round your entire career.
Maybe your table is different than mine and you really do burn through hit points that often and that fast that its worth it, but I don't know.
Me with that stat spread I'd ignore con the entire campaign, take war caster at warlock 8 to get chr to 18, get my chr to 20 at 12 and if not tough and lessons of the first one id find another invocation to drop to get me pact of the tome so all of my attacks are chr based.
I guess I see your logic on Searing Vengeance.
How does fighting offhand with a cantrip work?
At what level should I take Pact of the Tome?
Shillelagh just makes a club or quarterstaff use your casting stat for attack/damage bonuses and then makes them do more damage as you level up, but it works and attacks just like a normal attack. You use a bonus action round one to enchant the club with the spell and beat people up. You'd lose one attack round one, as you used your bonus action for that but after that you will be hitting more often(maybe its not a vex weapon) and for more damage. Though it changes your weapon mastery from vex to slow. I personally think if used tactically you will get more out of the slow effect but that will require some teamwork most likely. Vex is easy to use, but when your off hand club starts hitting for d10 or d12 I think that outweighs the benefit from vex by far.
Ok, i think I follow.
is this something i could use before combat starts?
also, is it worth taking pact of the chain when i can get find familiar through pact of the tome?
lastly, what level should i consider taking Pact of the Tome?
There are a couple benefits to Pact of the Chain over the basic Find Familiar spell. The biggest one being that you get access to some familiar forms unique to Pact, like the Pseudodragon, Skeleton, and the Imp. A couple of the new forms have some very useful abilities that the basic beast forms lack, like turning invisible for scouting.
Having the Pact of the Chain also unlocks the ability to use some of the follow-up invocations, like Investment of the Chain Master (allows bonus action to command familiar to attack), or Voice of the Chain Master (unlimited range to see through familiar senses, can use own voice through familiar). Whether or not these benefits are worth depends on the character you are looking to build.
Voice of the Chain Master is no longer available in the ‘24 rules unfortunately. Or a least that’s what I assume since I haven’t been able to access it. As for Investment of the Chain Master, I’ve been relying on my imp’a invisibility to give me advantage on the first attack followed by vex to continue giving me advantage, so him attacking would break that invisibility. Still, it attacking would allow for powerful attacks at beginner levels, so i took Pact of the Chain at level 2 (Warlock 1) to use it’s attacks instead of my own for the first few levels. Does that make sense, or should I start with Pact of the Blade instead?
It lasts a minute so you can do it before combat to a limited degree, as for pact of the chain it depends on how you plan on using it. A invisible scout with hands is useful, but if you end up mainly using it for the help action for advantage, yeah a owl or whatever will be fine instead. And personally I'd try to get tome by 8th warlock level that is where you will see a gap between your dex and chr start really showing especially since at level 5 your club will start doing 1d8, and will soon be 1d10. If your DM chooses magic items based on what he sees players using, maybe earlier.
From experience at various tables I will say pact of the chain and invisible familiars. Check with your DM and other players for how far they are okay with you pushing it. If someone is playing a sneak character, getting overshadowed by your imp familiar might make the game less fun. The character will have a better stealth, but they wont be constantly invisible, tiny, flying shapeshifter as well most likely unless the sneak is your druid. And I have known a lot of DMs who just hate dealing with it. Its tiny, it has a decent stealth, can change it to innocuous forms, is invisible, has hands etc. You can do a lot with it, but its a group game and if that a lot ends up being disruptive its not really worth it.
I understand. So far I’ve just been using my warlock for one shots, so I don’t think it matters as much, but I’ll be careful.
i’ll try making that adjustment on when I get pact of the tome. I was thinking Guidance, Shillelagh, and Shape Water for my cantrips, is that ok? Also, what rituals would you recommend to start out with?
Depends on party composition but speak with animals and comprehend languages comes up a lot in our games. They are one of the few rituals that are still useful at level 20.
Ok thanks!
I’ve updated the character in the link within my first post should anyone want to take a look.
Pact of the chain as mentioned give you more creatures and unlike the spell, you can use them to attack. Another invocation at higher level allows you to have them originate spells, so they can stay invisible because you are casting the spells..
That’s what i thought. Thank you.
The other thing about the Pact of the Chain Invocation is that (assuming you have 10gp of burning incense to spare on hand) it lets you cast Find Familiar in a single Magic Action, whereas obtaining Find Familiar through Pact of the Tome requires the 70-minute ritual (and the Incense)
So if your Pact of the Chain familiar dies in combat, and you're willing to spend an Action and the incense on it, you can have it back on your next Turn. Or if you need to swap its form for something more appropriate/useful on the fly.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
I took Magic Initiate on my Thri-Kreen Paladin to get Comprehend Languages. The spell allows him to understand all languages, and his racial Thri-Kreen Telepathy allows anyone to understand him as long as they know a language, so he now can talk to anyone in any language. Pretty damn useful.
I definitely changed out my first level spells for comprehend languages and speak with animals. I did leave hex over detect magic though.
It i resummon my familiar and have investment of the chain master, can i have my familiar attack using my bonus action on the same turn that it is summoned?
Yes, you can have your Action and Bonus Action happen in any order on your turn.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage