I am trying to make a "Gish" half-caster martial-like character. From what I have seen, Warlock fills the fantasy I am looking for the best. I would like to use the 5.5 rules but older subclasses are just fine. But I need help with a proper build. Ideally, I would have at least medium armour(preferred heavy), A great sword as the main weapon, and could cast a decent amount of spells. Multiclassing is okay but I don't like the idea of taking 1 level of Warlock and then going full in a different class. Also, it should be playable from levels 3-15.
Levels 2-3 Warlock: invocations: pact of the blade, agonizing blast true strike (RAW debatable), fiendish vigor/repelling blast/pact of the chain (human or custom species recommended so chain is not needed)
Levels 4-9 Valor Bard (extra attack with true strike)
Levels 10-15: 4 in celestial warlock and two in devotion paladin (either order): invocations: eldritch smite, fiendish vigor/repelling blast/pact of the chain
(levels 16-20 champion fighter)
Take tough for origin feat, and magic initiate wizard if human with find familiar. Stats (point buy): Str. 15, Dex. 8, Con. 16, Int. 8, Wis. 8, Cha. 17. Custom background.
I agree that agonizing/repelling blast true strike is great, and that's how I build most warlock gishes. If your DM allows it, try lance of lethargy on true strike with a whip and a level of fighter. You reduce movement by 20ft on hit and knock them back 10ft. Additionally, backwards compatibility with the hexblade Warlock will give you the armor proficiency without having to multi class. I think warlocks are strong without too much multiclasing, maybe just one level fighter for weapon mastery and fighting style. After all, you can get extra attack through invocations and full caster spell progression doesn't combine with pact magic, so you lose some high level spells.
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Why do ships ship cargo and cars carry shipments? Why do we have fingertips but not toetips and can tiptoe but can't tipfinger. These are all the questions of the universe.
Sorry I just read the greatsword thing! In which case ignore the whip stuff and fighter multiclass. I would just go full warlock. Also realized hexblades armor is redundant with fighter multiclass.
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Why do ships ship cargo and cars carry shipments? Why do we have fingertips but not toetips and can tiptoe but can't tipfinger. These are all the questions of the universe.
While optimization will obviously make you more powerful you can probably just go straight warlock. If I were trying to go warlock gish at most I'd 1 level dip in a martial for medium+ armor prof, and weapon abilities. And honestly any of the martials will work. Even barbarian works fine, you get 2 slots per short rest a couple rages can cover your butt when out of spells. Race options are all over the ballpark that work. Dwarf for 1/2 of toughness, Darkvision, resistance to the pretty common poison, goliath stone for a damage deduction ability or cloud for mobility, human for a bonus origin feat like toughness for more hit points or magic initiate for more spells given the limited slots, elves just rock all of them.
Take pact of the blade, thirsting blade, devouring blade as you level. I'd probably add in one with shadows and otherworldly leap, the rest of the invocations are more flavor based after that. Sub class I think any of them can work, but Archfey and Fiend are my top 2 out of the 2024 options for it. If going archfey I'd heavily consider high elf and then taking fey touched the more misty steps you have the better as its big for your defense. Stats are where it gets a bit hard as you are going two handed sword so probably want a 13 strength and if dipping 1 level in fighter or paladin I'd consider taking it to 14 at the start so after taking great weapon master you have a 15 and can wear plate with no penalty. so something like 12, 10,14,8,12,15 or 13,10,14,8,10,15 before origin mods with origin being towards str/chr. First feat I'd take is heavy weapon to get into plate. After that fey touched, if archfey, warcaster otherwise, and then since stopping at 15 a stat boost to get Chr to 20.
Given the great sword and armor desire, I would probably do a 1 level dip into Paladin. It provides a couple of spells and a couple level 1 spell slots. If you are going great sword you are going to need at least 13 strength anyway so you are going to qualify for the multi-class. After that just go full warlock, Fiend and Fey are both fantastic for a gish type character, Fey being my personal favorite. As dude said take Thirsting and devouring blade at proper levels, may even consider lifedrinker. If going fey High elf is a solid choice for an extra misty step, otherwise, human for an extra feat or dwarf is good. After the blade pact essentials of pact of blade, thristing blade and devouring blade it really is pick your favorites, my favorites are one with shadows and either misty visions or lessons of the first ones for lucky feat or alert feat or even both. You can even get EB +AB as an ok ranged option when you can't get into melee with the blade.
I started fighter personally for the boost in Constitution saves, but ai’ve heard great things about paladin. I’m starting to think heavy weapon is the only way to go unless you are dual wielding. The only exception might be if you get a good weapon early on, but I’m too inexperienced to know what is out there that can beat Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast.
Is it worth taking Pact of the Blade and the related Eldritch Invocations without a +13 Strength or dual wielding?
I started fighter personally for the boost in Constitution saves, but ai’ve heard great things about paladin. I’m starting to think heavy weapon is the only way to go unless you are dual wielding. The only exception might be if you get a good weapon early on, but I’m too inexperienced to know what is out there that can beat Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast.
Is it worth taking Pact of the Blade and the related Eldritch Invocations without a +13 Strength or dual wielding?
The +13 strength is needed to multiclass* (is wrong per the below person's note) into a ftr and/or get bonus on your hits/damage with a weapon. With Pact of the blade, yo can get a invocation that allows you to use your charisma bonus. That negates the str hits damage bonus, but does not negate the requirement for multiclass.
There is a invocation you can use to get a +3 to armor (can't wear armor)(Mage armor spell) and being an invocation you can use it repeatedly giving you 24/7 protection. the +3 is not medium armor, but it might be close enough.
Using those invocations does limit you as that is 3 out of how many you can take. So you need to trade off to determine if you want to stay pure warlock and not get 13 str or get 13 str and multiclass and use less invocations.
I started fighter personally for the boost in Constitution saves, but ai’ve heard great things about paladin. I’m starting to think heavy weapon is the only way to go unless you are dual wielding. The only exception might be if you get a good weapon early on, but I’m too inexperienced to know what is out there that can beat Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast.
Is it worth taking Pact of the Blade and the related Eldritch Invocations without a +13 Strength or dual wielding?
The primary reason for 13 strength is not the multi-classing it is the fact that the new rules on heavy weapons is that you need a 13 strength for heavy melee weapons to not roll at disadvantage and a 13 dex for heavy ranged weapons to not roll with disadvantage. Without these things often times true strike + AB on true strike can be almost as good as pact of the blade at most levels. Because warlocks have access to simple weapons and a simple swing with true strike will allow the warlock to use their charisma for weapon strike and they can already get a d8 weapon that way. Blade locks do good damage because they can get a 13 strength, maybe multiclass into fighter or paladin and use their charisma for their attack rolls with powerful 2 handed weapons and can 3 attacks by level 12 or 13. If you aren't going the 13 strength route I would probably go for more of a utility caster route with tome and chain.
I started fighter personally for the boost in Constitution saves, but ai’ve heard great things about paladin. I’m starting to think heavy weapon is the only way to go unless you are dual wielding. The only exception might be if you get a good weapon early on, but I’m too inexperienced to know what is out there that can beat Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast.
Is it worth taking Pact of the Blade and the related Eldritch Invocations without a +13 Strength or dual wielding?
The primary reason for 13 strength is not the multi-classing it is the fact that the new rules ....
So are you saying if I have a sub 12 STR I can multiclass into a FTR?
I started fighter personally for the boost in Constitution saves, but ai’ve heard great things about paladin. I’m starting to think heavy weapon is the only way to go unless you are dual wielding. The only exception might be if you get a good weapon early on, but I’m too inexperienced to know what is out there that can beat Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast.
Is it worth taking Pact of the Blade and the related Eldritch Invocations without a +13 Strength or dual wielding?
The primary reason for 13 strength is not the multi-classing it is the fact that the new rules ....
So are you saying if I have a sub 12 STR I can multiclass into a FTR?
Technically yes if you have at least 13 dex. But blade lock needs 13 strength regardless of if you are or are not multiclassing, could multi-class into cleric or druid if you want, but if you are playing blade you would still want the 13 strength so that you don't have disadvantage with heavy weapons from your blade weapon.
And you likely want heavy weapon mastery feat which requires a 13 strength as well. If going bladelock I'd likely try to wrangle 13 str and 13 dex, so I could swap between heavy melee and heavy ranged weapons(assuming improved pact blade still exists). And since going for a 13 dex, I might push it to 14 and go medium armor which if multi classing opens up barbarian and ranger as well as options, while there are optimized choices better than those I can see thematically ranger or barbarian fitting lets say feylock thematically more. And before anyone points out rage and spellcasting I'd just remind you that you only get 2 spells per short rest, so odds are you will have the opportunity to rage sometime during the day without it being a bad choice.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Depends on exactly how tightly you are following the wording. IPW requires the pact of the blade feature which the 2024 warlock does not get. Pact of the blade invocation does not grant the class feature. It's a very pedantic reading of the rule (which if I was DMing I would ignore), but it is what it is. As written, a 2024 warlock is not backwards compatible with IPW. I'm not sure why IPW was cut, seems kind of a head scratcher to me. All they successfully did was outlaw archer locks (until they find a magic bow of course), which exactly zero non-arcane archers were complaining about.
My guess is, they felt IPW was obsolete because the new invocation gives you almost the same stuff.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Depends on exactly how tightly you are following the wording. IPW requires the pact of the blade feature which the 2024 warlock does not get. Pact of the blade invocation does not grant the class feature. It's a very pedantic reading of the rule (which if I was DMing I would ignore), but it is what it is. As written, a 2024 warlock is not backwards compatible with IPW. I'm not sure why IPW was cut, seems kind of a head scratcher to me. All they successfully did was outlaw archer locks (until they find a magic bow of course), which exactly zero non-arcane archers were complaining about.
My guess is, they felt IPW was obsolete because the new invocation gives you almost the same stuff.
I wonder if they felt it stepped on eldritch blast too much or something.
Personal opinion, while redoing the class I'd of blended eldritch blast and pact of the blade into one feature, that got more attacks only via warlock levels so its not a dip feature. Basically you can shape eldritch energy into constructs that can mimic weapons, they don't have to appear like the weapon but they can take on the stats of them. A long bow stat would basically mimic eldritch blast. It would use a magic action to attack, bonus action to change its form, and invocations would round it out.
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I am trying to make a "Gish" half-caster martial-like character. From what I have seen, Warlock fills the fantasy I am looking for the best. I would like to use the 5.5 rules but older subclasses are just fine. But I need help with a proper build. Ideally, I would have at least medium armour(preferred heavy), A great sword as the main weapon, and could cast a decent amount of spells. Multiclassing is okay but I don't like the idea of taking 1 level of Warlock and then going full in a different class. Also, it should be playable from levels 3-15.
Level 1: Paladin: prepare divine favor
Levels 2-3 Warlock: invocations: pact of the blade, agonizing blast true strike (RAW debatable), fiendish vigor/repelling blast/pact of the chain (human or custom species recommended so chain is not needed)
Levels 4-9 Valor Bard (extra attack with true strike)
Levels 10-15: 4 in celestial warlock and two in devotion paladin (either order): invocations: eldritch smite, fiendish vigor/repelling blast/pact of the chain
(levels 16-20 champion fighter)
Take tough for origin feat, and magic initiate wizard if human with find familiar. Stats (point buy): Str. 15, Dex. 8, Con. 16, Int. 8, Wis. 8, Cha. 17. Custom background.
In combat: (after casting divine favor and hex)
True strike with adv. from familiar for 84% chance for normal hit, dealing 2D6 + 2D6 + 1D6 + 1D4 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5, and a 9.75% chance to crit., dealing 4D6 + 4D6 + 2D6 + 2D4 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 8D8 (ES) + 8D8 (DS). Total TS average damage: 45.93. (6% of graze for 5 damage)
Extra attack 60% chance for normal hit, dealing 2D6 + 1D6 + 1D4 + 5 + 5 + .3(if TS misses, RS). 5% chance for crit, dealing 4D6 + 2D6 + 2D4 + 5 + 5 + .3 + 8D8 + 90% * 8D8. Total extra attack average damage 20.95. (35% chance of graze for 5 damage)
Total average damage: 66.88
Extended signature
I agree that agonizing/repelling blast true strike is great, and that's how I build most warlock gishes. If your DM allows it, try lance of lethargy on true strike with a whip and a level of fighter. You reduce movement by 20ft on hit and knock them back 10ft. Additionally, backwards compatibility with the hexblade Warlock will give you the armor proficiency without having to multi class. I think warlocks are strong without too much multiclasing, maybe just one level fighter for weapon mastery and fighting style. After all, you can get extra attack through invocations and full caster spell progression doesn't combine with pact magic, so you lose some high level spells.
Why do ships ship cargo and cars carry shipments? Why do we have fingertips but not toetips and can tiptoe but can't tipfinger. These are all the questions of the universe.
Sorry I just read the greatsword thing! In which case ignore the whip stuff and fighter multiclass. I would just go full warlock. Also realized hexblades armor is redundant with fighter multiclass.
Why do ships ship cargo and cars carry shipments? Why do we have fingertips but not toetips and can tiptoe but can't tipfinger. These are all the questions of the universe.
While optimization will obviously make you more powerful you can probably just go straight warlock. If I were trying to go warlock gish at most I'd 1 level dip in a martial for medium+ armor prof, and weapon abilities. And honestly any of the martials will work. Even barbarian works fine, you get 2 slots per short rest a couple rages can cover your butt when out of spells. Race options are all over the ballpark that work. Dwarf for 1/2 of toughness, Darkvision, resistance to the pretty common poison, goliath stone for a damage deduction ability or cloud for mobility, human for a bonus origin feat like toughness for more hit points or magic initiate for more spells given the limited slots, elves just rock all of them.
Take pact of the blade, thirsting blade, devouring blade as you level. I'd probably add in one with shadows and otherworldly leap, the rest of the invocations are more flavor based after that. Sub class I think any of them can work, but Archfey and Fiend are my top 2 out of the 2024 options for it. If going archfey I'd heavily consider high elf and then taking fey touched the more misty steps you have the better as its big for your defense. Stats are where it gets a bit hard as you are going two handed sword so probably want a 13 strength and if dipping 1 level in fighter or paladin I'd consider taking it to 14 at the start so after taking great weapon master you have a 15 and can wear plate with no penalty. so something like 12, 10,14,8,12,15 or 13,10,14,8,10,15 before origin mods with origin being towards str/chr. First feat I'd take is heavy weapon to get into plate. After that fey touched, if archfey, warcaster otherwise, and then since stopping at 15 a stat boost to get Chr to 20.
Given the great sword and armor desire, I would probably do a 1 level dip into Paladin. It provides a couple of spells and a couple level 1 spell slots. If you are going great sword you are going to need at least 13 strength anyway so you are going to qualify for the multi-class. After that just go full warlock, Fiend and Fey are both fantastic for a gish type character, Fey being my personal favorite. As dude said take Thirsting and devouring blade at proper levels, may even consider lifedrinker. If going fey High elf is a solid choice for an extra misty step, otherwise, human for an extra feat or dwarf is good. After the blade pact essentials of pact of blade, thristing blade and devouring blade it really is pick your favorites, my favorites are one with shadows and either misty visions or lessons of the first ones for lucky feat or alert feat or even both. You can even get EB +AB as an ok ranged option when you can't get into melee with the blade.
I started fighter personally for the boost in Constitution saves, but ai’ve heard great things about paladin. I’m starting to think heavy weapon is the only way to go unless you are dual wielding. The only exception might be if you get a good weapon early on, but I’m too inexperienced to know what is out there that can beat Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast.
Is it worth taking Pact of the Blade and the related Eldritch Invocations without a +13 Strength or dual wielding?
The +13 strength is needed to multiclass* (is wrong per the below person's note) into a ftr and/or get bonus on your hits/damage with a weapon. With Pact of the blade, yo can get a invocation that allows you to use your charisma bonus. That negates the str hits damage bonus, but does not negate the requirement for multiclass.
There is a invocation you can use to get a +3 to armor (can't wear armor)(Mage armor spell) and being an invocation you can use it repeatedly giving you 24/7 protection. the +3 is not medium armor, but it might be close enough.
Using those invocations does limit you as that is 3 out of how many you can take. So you need to trade off to determine if you want to stay pure warlock and not get 13 str or get 13 str and multiclass and use less invocations.
The primary reason for 13 strength is not the multi-classing it is the fact that the new rules on heavy weapons is that you need a 13 strength for heavy melee weapons to not roll at disadvantage and a 13 dex for heavy ranged weapons to not roll with disadvantage. Without these things often times true strike + AB on true strike can be almost as good as pact of the blade at most levels. Because warlocks have access to simple weapons and a simple swing with true strike will allow the warlock to use their charisma for weapon strike and they can already get a d8 weapon that way. Blade locks do good damage because they can get a 13 strength, maybe multiclass into fighter or paladin and use their charisma for their attack rolls with powerful 2 handed weapons and can 3 attacks by level 12 or 13. If you aren't going the 13 strength route I would probably go for more of a utility caster route with tome and chain.
So are you saying if I have a sub 12 STR I can multiclass into a FTR?
For the record, multiclassing into Fighter requires a 13+ Strength or a 13+ Dexterity.
Technically yes if you have at least 13 dex. But blade lock needs 13 strength regardless of if you are or are not multiclassing, could multi-class into cleric or druid if you want, but if you are playing blade you would still want the 13 strength so that you don't have disadvantage with heavy weapons from your blade weapon.
And you likely want heavy weapon mastery feat which requires a 13 strength as well. If going bladelock I'd likely try to wrangle 13 str and 13 dex, so I could swap between heavy melee and heavy ranged weapons(assuming improved pact blade still exists). And since going for a 13 dex, I might push it to 14 and go medium armor which if multi classing opens up barbarian and ranger as well as options, while there are optimized choices better than those I can see thematically ranger or barbarian fitting lets say feylock thematically more. And before anyone points out rage and spellcasting I'd just remind you that you only get 2 spells per short rest, so odds are you will have the opportunity to rage sometime during the day without it being a bad choice.
IPW was not released with the 2024 warlock
Additionally, while you can't cast a spell while raging, I am pretty sure you can eldritch smite while raging.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah, it seems up in the air whether its a backwards compatible invocation. And yes I think you could eldritch smite.
Depends on exactly how tightly you are following the wording. IPW requires the pact of the blade feature which the 2024 warlock does not get. Pact of the blade invocation does not grant the class feature. It's a very pedantic reading of the rule (which if I was DMing I would ignore), but it is what it is. As written, a 2024 warlock is not backwards compatible with IPW. I'm not sure why IPW was cut, seems kind of a head scratcher to me. All they successfully did was outlaw archer locks (until they find a magic bow of course), which exactly zero non-arcane archers were complaining about.
My guess is, they felt IPW was obsolete because the new invocation gives you almost the same stuff.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I wonder if they felt it stepped on eldritch blast too much or something.
Personal opinion, while redoing the class I'd of blended eldritch blast and pact of the blade into one feature, that got more attacks only via warlock levels so its not a dip feature. Basically you can shape eldritch energy into constructs that can mimic weapons, they don't have to appear like the weapon but they can take on the stats of them. A long bow stat would basically mimic eldritch blast. It would use a magic action to attack, bonus action to change its form, and invocations would round it out.