The problem is that shadow blade lasts one minute and is a concentration spell. It's like they made it just so it couldn't be used for this purpose.
Game On, Sibling! Jack
Good at high level with Thirsting/Devouring blade. Maybe not so good at lower levels. (Three attacks and a Nick attack then a bonus action Weapon attack.)
But to make it your pact weapon, it takes a bonus action to make something a pact weapon, and I'm not sure you can make the shadow blade a pact weapon. If your combats are anything like mine are, you're in a party of four to six, fighting a half dozen or more opponents. Since the shadow blade lasts only a minute, if you don't lose your concentration, you'll be needing to use your BA every ten turns to reconjure it. You can do that, but then you need your next BA -- has it been ten turns yet? -- to bond with it. On your third turn --- has it been ten turns yet? -- you can use your thirsting or devouring blade with it.
Otherwise, you're left with making your dagger or shortsword your pact weapon so you can use your thirsting or devouring blade attacks with that and you Nick attack with your shadow blade. I'm not sure that's the solution I'm looking for.
Seriously, it is nearly impossible to use shadow blade in this way, which is a shame because it is so cool. It begs to be used as your pact weapon. Why else have it? But, as I read it, it doesn't seem like it will work the way I'm wanting it to and the way intuition tells you it orta work.
Wizard and Sorcerer can upcast it Higher eventually BUT only one attack.
Can TrueStrike with Shadow Bade a thing?
No.True Strike requires that its material component be "a weapon with which you have proficiency and that is worth 1+ CP" and that's the weapon you make the attack with in the casting. The Shadow Blade fails on that criterion.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
You're absolutely correct, I am talking about a weapon system, but I finally realized that it is an integrated system. The user of the rapier and parrying dagger use them as if they are one weapon. Any resulting damage doesn't matter if it was delivered by the rapier, dagger, or a combination. Therefore, it should be treated like the two-handed longsword. You get one attack roll using your finesse ability and one damage roll using the d10 two-handed versatile standard. The rest is all descriptive.
Any additional benefits of using a rapier and parrying dagger combination would then be addressed by feats, bonus attacks, additions to AC, attacks of opportunities, disadvantaged attacks, advantaged attacks, and anything else that are used in feats.
Once I started thinking of it this way, it seemed easy to homebrew a satisfactory solution that wasn't overpowered. The post is up in the homebrew section.
The biggest problem with the build after working out all of the dual wielding issues is the AC. There's really no way to get it over 17 without some type of magic like, so temporary HP becomes a premium. Also, the two magic pact spell slots become a bottle neck. You've got a long long list of powerful spells and only two to cast, three with magical cunning.
Rereading the thread; Were you assuming that a Warlock gets their Pact Slots back on a Long Rest, instead of a Short Rest, here?
I do kind of think Magical Cunning should have activated by "When you roll Initiative" instead of "When you spend one minute in an Esoteric Rite." basically the way that the Monk's Uncanny Metabolism works.
Since you can only do it once per Long Rest either way, having to save it for situations where you know you have more than a minute but less than an hour before the next fight seems to make it a lot less likely to be used.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Good catch. That is exactly what I thought, but somewhere along the way, I realized that it was after a short rest. Luckily, I have yet to have played a warlock but am preparing to play one soon. And, I think you're right about Magical Cunning. It seems a lot less useful even with the short rest thing.
not sure it matters as its not rapier and dagger, but you could do two weapon style warlock with any subclass but you would likely lose one attack round 1. pact of the tome shillelagh, use a club(which you could make a carved wooden blunt dagger) its light so qualifies for two weapon style, pact of the blade a nick weapon. 2 1 level of a martial class likely fighter, you can use nick. I say likely fighter as it gets a fighting style at level 1 so if you take two weapon fighting you can add your stat damage to the off hand attack. Though rogue might be an option, you don't get stat damage on that off hand attack but 1d6 sneak attack makes up for some of it, and expertise etc is nifty. If going 2 levels paladin/ranger get a fighting style as well.
This would allow for you to take one of the beefier 2024 subclasses and you might be able to theme some of their baked in defenses into a parrying move with a dagger. Fiends dark ones blessing say the temp hitpoints is usually damage you deflect with the dagger you have to be in the zone so to speak to keep it going(aka people dying near you for temp hit points) given how abstract hit points are I think that works, misty escape as a reaction you parry with your dagger and dance out of the enemies reach.
I LIKE where you're going with this. MC opens up all kinds of avenues for inventive combinations of weapons and feats. I like the idea of combining a ranger or fighter with a warlock, my friend. It has good synergy with pact of the blade in terms of allowing fighting styles, which speeds up the taking of feats.
As an exercise for learning about and understanding classes, feats, weapon properties, and weapon masteries, it has been helpful. There is a lot of details to keep in mind.
There's a lot that can be done through theater of the mind and descriptive narration once you get the combination down. Misty Step absolutely becomes a parry and move away from your opponent. I like the idea of adding temporary hit points by blocking damage and describing it as such adds to the fight. One of the biggest problems with fight scenes is the lack of evocative description of the action.
As I got through the warlock class, I find the action economy to be the hardest part of it. Warlocks seem to be constantly juggling attack actions, magic actions, bonus actions, and reactions all with two spell slots and invocations. Seriously, it gets hard enough that it is no wonder that most players just fall back on spamming EB.
Using a reaction to regain spell slots during initiative would be an interesting and useful approach to regaining your very limited spell slots. Notovny suggested that it work something like a Monk's Uncanny Metabolism works where you get your spell slots back when you roll initiative, but it is limited to one use per long rest.
Warlock absolutely needs to be broken away from being so dependent on rests to regain spell slots or get a few more spell slots.
Starting 1 level of fighter/rogue gets you 3/2 weapon masters for shortsword(vex) and scimitar(nick) Pact of the blade hexblade lets one be a hex weapon and the other the pact weapon meaning you can use cha for both. That's a d6 for both instead of a d8 and d4 for each so same average damage and your gm might let you flavor the shortsword as a rapier and the scimitar as a dagger.
Thank you for your help. However, I really want to re-create the rapier and blocking dagger fighting experience as close as I can, so flavoring a shortsword as a rapier doesn't do it for me, regardless of the DM, because we have a rapier sitting there in the equipment list. I'm less worried about the damage than I am about keeping in line with other similar weapons and being able to equip my character with a rapier in the dominate hand, a dagger in the off-hand, and make the primary or lead weapon the rapier. It just can't be done with RAW, so I homebrewed my own weapon, a rapier and parrying dagger.
The concept seems to drive people to argue hard about why such a thing isn't needed when the only thing driving the need for it is my own obsession, but that seems to not be very convincing. Anywho. I like this solution better than all of the other combinations of feats, weapon properties, mastery properties, and classes that have been offered. I will make a couple of homebrew feats to go along with it here directly.
Game On, Sibling! Jack
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Good at high level with Thirsting/Devouring blade. Maybe not so good at lower levels. (Three attacks and a Nick attack then a bonus action Weapon attack.)
But to make it your pact weapon, it takes a bonus action to make something a pact weapon, and I'm not sure you can make the shadow blade a pact weapon. If your combats are anything like mine are, you're in a party of four to six, fighting a half dozen or more opponents. Since the shadow blade lasts only a minute, if you don't lose your concentration, you'll be needing to use your BA every ten turns to reconjure it. You can do that, but then you need your next BA -- has it been ten turns yet? -- to bond with it. On your third turn --- has it been ten turns yet? -- you can use your thirsting or devouring blade with it.
Otherwise, you're left with making your dagger or shortsword your pact weapon so you can use your thirsting or devouring blade attacks with that and you Nick attack with your shadow blade. I'm not sure that's the solution I'm looking for.
Seriously, it is nearly impossible to use shadow blade in this way, which is a shame because it is so cool. It begs to be used as your pact weapon. Why else have it? But, as I read it, it doesn't seem like it will work the way I'm wanting it to and the way intuition tells you it orta work.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
Wizard and Sorcerer can upcast it Higher eventually BUT only one attack.
Can TrueStrike with Shadow Bade a thing?
No.True Strike requires that its material component be "a weapon with which you have proficiency and that is worth 1+ CP" and that's the weapon you make the attack with in the casting. The Shadow Blade fails on that criterion.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Sorry Crzy, I missed this when you posted it.
You're absolutely correct, I am talking about a weapon system, but I finally realized that it is an integrated system. The user of the rapier and parrying dagger use them as if they are one weapon. Any resulting damage doesn't matter if it was delivered by the rapier, dagger, or a combination. Therefore, it should be treated like the two-handed longsword. You get one attack roll using your finesse ability and one damage roll using the d10 two-handed versatile standard. The rest is all descriptive.
Any additional benefits of using a rapier and parrying dagger combination would then be addressed by feats, bonus attacks, additions to AC, attacks of opportunities, disadvantaged attacks, advantaged attacks, and anything else that are used in feats.
Once I started thinking of it this way, it seemed easy to homebrew a satisfactory solution that wasn't overpowered. The post is up in the homebrew section.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
Rereading the thread; Were you assuming that a Warlock gets their Pact Slots back on a Long Rest, instead of a Short Rest, here?
I do kind of think Magical Cunning should have activated by "When you roll Initiative" instead of "When you spend one minute in an Esoteric Rite." basically the way that the Monk's Uncanny Metabolism works.
Since you can only do it once per Long Rest either way, having to save it for situations where you know you have more than a minute but less than an hour before the next fight seems to make it a lot less likely to be used.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Howdy Notovny!
Good catch. That is exactly what I thought, but somewhere along the way, I realized that it was after a short rest. Luckily, I have yet to have played a warlock but am preparing to play one soon. And, I think you're right about Magical Cunning. It seems a lot less useful even with the short rest thing.
Huzzah!
Jack
Spend 1 Minute to regain 1/2 your slots (rounded up one for long rest
Spend 1 action to get back one spell Slot Rod of the Pact Keeper (Updated)
I like the 'boost' to spell casting this gives but not the action economy to use them.
would like as a reaction to rolling initiative instead (Lose a reaction but an instant boost to spell slots.)
not sure it matters as its not rapier and dagger, but you could do two weapon style warlock with any subclass but you would likely lose one attack round 1. pact of the tome shillelagh, use a club(which you could make a carved wooden blunt dagger) its light so qualifies for two weapon style, pact of the blade a nick weapon. 2 1 level of a martial class likely fighter, you can use nick. I say likely fighter as it gets a fighting style at level 1 so if you take two weapon fighting you can add your stat damage to the off hand attack. Though rogue might be an option, you don't get stat damage on that off hand attack but 1d6 sneak attack makes up for some of it, and expertise etc is nifty. If going 2 levels paladin/ranger get a fighting style as well.
This would allow for you to take one of the beefier 2024 subclasses and you might be able to theme some of their baked in defenses into a parrying move with a dagger. Fiends dark ones blessing say the temp hitpoints is usually damage you deflect with the dagger you have to be in the zone so to speak to keep it going(aka people dying near you for temp hit points) given how abstract hit points are I think that works, misty escape as a reaction you parry with your dagger and dance out of the enemies reach.
Howdy My!
I LIKE where you're going with this. MC opens up all kinds of avenues for inventive combinations of weapons and feats. I like the idea of combining a ranger or fighter with a warlock, my friend. It has good synergy with pact of the blade in terms of allowing fighting styles, which speeds up the taking of feats.
As an exercise for learning about and understanding classes, feats, weapon properties, and weapon masteries, it has been helpful. There is a lot of details to keep in mind.
There's a lot that can be done through theater of the mind and descriptive narration once you get the combination down. Misty Step absolutely becomes a parry and move away from your opponent. I like the idea of adding temporary hit points by blocking damage and describing it as such adds to the fight. One of the biggest problems with fight scenes is the lack of evocative description of the action.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
Howdy Marc!
As I got through the warlock class, I find the action economy to be the hardest part of it. Warlocks seem to be constantly juggling attack actions, magic actions, bonus actions, and reactions all with two spell slots and invocations. Seriously, it gets hard enough that it is no wonder that most players just fall back on spamming EB.
Using a reaction to regain spell slots during initiative would be an interesting and useful approach to regaining your very limited spell slots. Notovny suggested that it work something like a Monk's Uncanny Metabolism works where you get your spell slots back when you roll initiative, but it is limited to one use per long rest.
Warlock absolutely needs to be broken away from being so dependent on rests to regain spell slots or get a few more spell slots.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
Starting 1 level of fighter/rogue gets you 3/2 weapon masters for shortsword(vex) and scimitar(nick) Pact of the blade hexblade lets one be a hex weapon and the other the pact weapon meaning you can use cha for both. That's a d6 for both instead of a d8 and d4 for each so same average damage and your gm might let you flavor the shortsword as a rapier and the scimitar as a dagger.
Howdy Elias!
Thank you for your help. However, I really want to re-create the rapier and blocking dagger fighting experience as close as I can, so flavoring a shortsword as a rapier doesn't do it for me, regardless of the DM, because we have a rapier sitting there in the equipment list. I'm less worried about the damage than I am about keeping in line with other similar weapons and being able to equip my character with a rapier in the dominate hand, a dagger in the off-hand, and make the primary or lead weapon the rapier. It just can't be done with RAW, so I homebrewed my own weapon, a rapier and parrying dagger.
The concept seems to drive people to argue hard about why such a thing isn't needed when the only thing driving the need for it is my own obsession, but that seems to not be very convincing. Anywho. I like this solution better than all of the other combinations of feats, weapon properties, mastery properties, and classes that have been offered. I will make a couple of homebrew feats to go along with it here directly.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack