But levels are missing. I would assume "It Happened Like This" is level 3, "Could Do With Fewer Scars" is level 6, "Expect an Ambush" is level 9 and "Grandfather Paradox" is level 14.
Was this always there? I don't remember seeing this before.
Oh ok never mind, this was released last week. No wonder I didn't see it before...
To be honest it looks slightly busted. Reminds me of the Chronurgy Wizard subclass.
I guess it got retracted right quick because that link just goes to the warlock page without any mention a Future You Patron. The grandfather paradox sounded intriguing and it happened like this, but like all time travel it gets complicated fast. I also guess timey-wimey, wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff was already copyrighted, though.
I’m a bit confused about why, in the 2024 rules, warlocks choose their patron at level three. Do they just have strange powers without knowing where they come from? Since a warlock’s powers come from a pact with their patron, wouldn’t they already know that at level one?
I’m a bit confused about why, in the 2024 rules, warlocks choose their patron at level three. Do they just have strange powers without knowing where they come from? Since a warlock’s powers come from a pact with their patron, wouldn’t they already know that at level one?
1st al 2024 PHB characters get their sub class at 3rd level. That is the reality and/or template for all 2024 classes. It might have to do with minimize the advantages of a level dip.
As for an explanation, once you receive powers you have them. Doesn't matter if you have a background initiate (cleric/druid/wizard) or you get them from elsewhere.
Using the initiate background as a model, you get a few cantrips and a level 1 spell. Basically what you get as a warlock though 2 levels.
So consider the 1st 2 levels that you do not have an "official" Patron to be your trial/probationary period. At 3rd level you officially get your Patron.
You can spin that trial/probationary period however you like.
I’m a bit confused about why, in the 2024 rules, warlocks choose their patron at level three. Do they just have strange powers without knowing where they come from? Since a warlock’s powers come from a pact with their patron, wouldn’t they already know that at level one?
What the Player knows, and what the Character knows , (And how the DM has decided the Setting actually works) aren't required to be the same thing.
If you're starting at level 1, but you have a clear idea of what type of patron you're heading for, and want it to be a declared specific entity at the start of your character's story, you can play it that way.
If you're starting at level 1, and want to put off your actual patron choice until you have more time to think or reach third level, you can play it that way.
If the DM wants to set up the setting in such a way that the actual bargain doesn't happen until the character reaches 3rd Level, that's fine, too.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
I’m a bit confused about why, in the 2024 rules, warlocks choose their patron at level three. Do they just have strange powers without knowing where they come from? Since a warlock’s powers come from a pact with their patron, wouldn’t they already know that at level one?
Maybe. Maybe they cut a deal with a mysterious entity. Maybe they're only making deals with lesser powers for now, but will get attention from something greater in the future. Maybe they know exactly who or what they're dealing with, but they're not ready for the good stuff.
But that's the roleplay side. Whatever your concept, you can make it work with the mechanical choice of patron not happening until 3.
On the mechanical side, subclass choice at first level increases the already-high cognitive load on new players, so they pushed it out to level three. (It also makes multiclass dips for subclass powers a bigger investment, but I think that was a secondary concern.)
I always saw it as for warlocks you know who the patron is but the patron is investing their power into you. Therefor you get spellcasting and magic trinkets at 1st and 2nd level and then they give you “real” power at 3rd
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And you run, and you run
To catch up with the sun, but it’s sinking
And racingaround
To come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way
But you’re older
Shorter of Breath
And one day closer to death
currently in love with redesigning subclasses send me a message and I will try
The first 2 levels are free, once you got a taste you got to cut a deal for something.
Honestly that is part of the reason I think it was a bad idea. In 2014 your pact was a background choice. 2024 its kind of up to your DM what your pact costs. And from reading these forums it seems many DMs seem to think Warlocks need to be screwed with as much as possible.
The first 2 levels are free, once you got a taste you got to cut a deal for something.
Honestly that is part of the reason I think it was a bad idea. In 2014 your pact was a background choice. 2024 its kind of up to your DM what your pact costs. And from reading these forums it seems many DMs seem to think Warlocks need to be screwed with as much as possible.
My hot take on this is that Warlock subclasses are designed around the wrong variable entirely. They shouldn't be identified with the type or flavor of being you have a pact with; that should be something you work out with the DM ahead of time. They should be identified with what job/role your patron wants you to do. Have one based around melee combat, one about spellcasting, one about "face" abilities, etc. And you flavor the powers/abilities they provide according to the specific entity.
This works equally well with choosing the subclass at level 1 or level 3. In the latter case, the patron has spent your first two levels evaluating you on a kind of probationary basis to see in what capacity you can be useful to it.
The first 2 levels are free, once you got a taste you got to cut a deal for something.
Honestly that is part of the reason I think it was a bad idea. In 2014 your pact was a background choice. 2024 its kind of up to your DM what your pact costs. And from reading these forums it seems many DMs seem to think Warlocks need to be screwed with as much as possible.
My hot take on this is that Warlock subclasses are designed around the wrong variable entirely. They shouldn't be identified with the type or flavor of being you have a pact with; that should be something you work out with the DM ahead of time. They should be identified with what job/role your patron wants you to do. Have one based around melee combat, one about spellcasting, one about "face" abilities, etc. And you flavor the powers/abilities they provide according to the specific entity.
i can get behind that, there is no reason a genie patron couldn't give you a set of abilities more tuned to melee than casting for example. They are pretty hefty hitters so the breadth of knowledge they can grant you shouldn't be so fixed.
It would have been interesting if warlocks being generally more customizable made a sub class choice from a pool at each sub class level.
Look at it from a design POV, every 2024 class has the subclass picked at level 3. Warlock is the outlier. If they make an exception for Warlock, what are the consequences for the other classes? Will people decry the unfairness, will they model/homebrew classes based on the outlier? What other security/balance/etc. issues will pop up?
Fixes aka penalties if Level X is not reached is a fix, but it both goes against any other class and it "hinders" those that want to multiclass.
How do you make an outlier fit the model, yet still retain that "outlier" vibe?
I am guessing that resources/knowledge needed to make it happen, were just not available. So we end up with the current 2 levels per the PHB.
Honestly, people are getting hung up on the wrong stuff with the whole "warlock patrons at level 3 instead of 1" discussion. You're free to flavor how you interact with your patron however you want - one of the best/worst parts of DnD, depending on who you ask, is it does nothing to dictatehow you roleplay, simply whether certain high-stakes choices succeed or fail. You can choose to dedicate yourself to The Fiend at level one, and say "I dedicated myself to the service of a demonic entity to avenge my blah blah blah." Then, when you choose The Fiend as your patron at level 3, the powers you choose represent a deepening connection to that pact which are specific to the demonic entity. Or you can say "I had a dream where a shadowy force promised me power in exchange for service," and when you hit level 3 and choose your patron, you have an epiphany as to the nature of your patron. OR you can say "I had a dream, etc., etc." and when you hit level 3, choose your patron and continue to remain in the dark as to their true nature, because the roleplay portion of the game is made up!
It works the exact same way with every other class. You don't hit level 3 as a Fighter, choose Eldritch Knight, and then go "oh yeah, I guess my dude hits the library and learns to cast some spells," you go "my dude has been training with wizards his whole life, and achieves a breakthrough in his understanding of magic" just as you hit level 3. Or you do go "oh, yeah, library, magic, pretty cool stuff" and that's also fine!
Honestly? Hot-take of my own? It actually sucked that you picked your patron at level 1 in 2014. It actually did dictate the nature of how you interact with your power, how the power was received, and what the nature of your relationship to your patron was. Same with Sorcerous bloodlines and Paladins' oaths. Your power still comes from those sources. You just get to decide what those powers manifesting looks like to you. Way better from an RP standpoint.
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I just noticed this: https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/2190885-warlock#FutureYouPatron
But levels are missing. I would assume "It Happened Like This" is level 3, "Could Do With Fewer Scars" is level 6, "Expect an Ambush" is level 9 and "Grandfather Paradox" is level 14.
Was this always there? I don't remember seeing this before.
Oh ok never mind, this was released last week. No wonder I didn't see it before...
To be honest it looks slightly busted. Reminds me of the Chronurgy Wizard subclass.
Howdy Natrel!
I guess it got retracted right quick because that link just goes to the warlock page without any mention a Future You Patron. The grandfather paradox sounded intriguing and it happened like this, but like all time travel it gets complicated fast. I also guess timey-wimey, wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff was already copyrighted, though.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
I’m a bit confused about why, in the 2024 rules, warlocks choose their patron at level three. Do they just have strange powers without knowing where they come from? Since a warlock’s powers come from a pact with their patron, wouldn’t they already know that at level one?
x trench run
1st al 2024 PHB characters get their sub class at 3rd level. That is the reality and/or template for all 2024 classes. It might have to do with minimize the advantages of a level dip.
As for an explanation, once you receive powers you have them. Doesn't matter if you have a background initiate (cleric/druid/wizard) or you get them from elsewhere.
Using the initiate background as a model, you get a few cantrips and a level 1 spell. Basically what you get as a warlock though 2 levels.
So consider the 1st 2 levels that you do not have an "official" Patron to be your trial/probationary period. At 3rd level you officially get your Patron.
You can spin that trial/probationary period however you like.
What the Player knows, and what the Character knows , (And how the DM has decided the Setting actually works) aren't required to be the same thing.
If you're starting at level 1, but you have a clear idea of what type of patron you're heading for, and want it to be a declared specific entity at the start of your character's story, you can play it that way.
If you're starting at level 1, and want to put off your actual patron choice until you have more time to think or reach third level, you can play it that way.
If the DM wants to set up the setting in such a way that the actual bargain doesn't happen until the character reaches 3rd Level, that's fine, too.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Maybe. Maybe they cut a deal with a mysterious entity. Maybe they're only making deals with lesser powers for now, but will get attention from something greater in the future. Maybe they know exactly who or what they're dealing with, but they're not ready for the good stuff.
But that's the roleplay side. Whatever your concept, you can make it work with the mechanical choice of patron not happening until 3.
On the mechanical side, subclass choice at first level increases the already-high cognitive load on new players, so they pushed it out to level three. (It also makes multiclass dips for subclass powers a bigger investment, but I think that was a secondary concern.)
I always saw it as for warlocks you know who the patron is but the patron is investing their power into you. Therefor you get spellcasting and magic trinkets at 1st and 2nd level and then they give you “real” power at 3rd
And you run, and you run
To catch up with the sun, but it’s sinking
And racing around
To come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way
But you’re older
Shorter of Breath
And one day closer to death
currently in love with redesigning subclasses send me a message and I will try
The first 2 levels are free, once you got a taste you got to cut a deal for something.
Honestly that is part of the reason I think it was a bad idea. In 2014 your pact was a background choice. 2024 its kind of up to your DM what your pact costs. And from reading these forums it seems many DMs seem to think Warlocks need to be screwed with as much as possible.
My hot take on this is that Warlock subclasses are designed around the wrong variable entirely. They shouldn't be identified with the type or flavor of being you have a pact with; that should be something you work out with the DM ahead of time. They should be identified with what job/role your patron wants you to do. Have one based around melee combat, one about spellcasting, one about "face" abilities, etc. And you flavor the powers/abilities they provide according to the specific entity.
This works equally well with choosing the subclass at level 1 or level 3. In the latter case, the patron has spent your first two levels evaluating you on a kind of probationary basis to see in what capacity you can be useful to it.
pronouns: he/she/they
i can get behind that, there is no reason a genie patron couldn't give you a set of abilities more tuned to melee than casting for example. They are pretty hefty hitters so the breadth of knowledge they can grant you shouldn't be so fixed.
It would have been interesting if warlocks being generally more customizable made a sub class choice from a pool at each sub class level.
Look at it from a design POV, every 2024 class has the subclass picked at level 3. Warlock is the outlier. If they make an exception for Warlock, what are the consequences for the other classes? Will people decry the unfairness, will they model/homebrew classes based on the outlier? What other security/balance/etc. issues will pop up?
Fixes aka penalties if Level X is not reached is a fix, but it both goes against any other class and it "hinders" those that want to multiclass.
How do you make an outlier fit the model, yet still retain that "outlier" vibe?
I am guessing that resources/knowledge needed to make it happen, were just not available. So we end up with the current 2 levels per the PHB.
Honestly, people are getting hung up on the wrong stuff with the whole "warlock patrons at level 3 instead of 1" discussion. You're free to flavor how you interact with your patron however you want - one of the best/worst parts of DnD, depending on who you ask, is it does nothing to dictate how you roleplay, simply whether certain high-stakes choices succeed or fail. You can choose to dedicate yourself to The Fiend at level one, and say "I dedicated myself to the service of a demonic entity to avenge my blah blah blah." Then, when you choose The Fiend as your patron at level 3, the powers you choose represent a deepening connection to that pact which are specific to the demonic entity. Or you can say "I had a dream where a shadowy force promised me power in exchange for service," and when you hit level 3 and choose your patron, you have an epiphany as to the nature of your patron. OR you can say "I had a dream, etc., etc." and when you hit level 3, choose your patron and continue to remain in the dark as to their true nature, because the roleplay portion of the game is made up!
It works the exact same way with every other class. You don't hit level 3 as a Fighter, choose Eldritch Knight, and then go "oh yeah, I guess my dude hits the library and learns to cast some spells," you go "my dude has been training with wizards his whole life, and achieves a breakthrough in his understanding of magic" just as you hit level 3. Or you do go "oh, yeah, library, magic, pretty cool stuff" and that's also fine!
Honestly? Hot-take of my own? It actually sucked that you picked your patron at level 1 in 2014. It actually did dictate the nature of how you interact with your power, how the power was received, and what the nature of your relationship to your patron was. Same with Sorcerous bloodlines and Paladins' oaths. Your power still comes from those sources. You just get to decide what those powers manifesting looks like to you. Way better from an RP standpoint.