I think the problem with warlocks is that it lacks class-exclusive spells that set it apart from other classes. Sure it has eldritch blast but the majority of the rest of its spell list is non- exclusive and I think the creators lost a lot of potential with making a line of warlock exclusive spells based on eldritch magic. If your DM lets you, I have my custom spells which might help:
2nd level: Eldritch Ray-2d8 force damage to all creatures in a 15-foot cone. Any creature within 5-feet of the cone's origin is pushed back 10-feet.
4th level: Eldritch Drain-drain 2d6 health from one enemy and deal that health as force damage to another enemy.
6th level: Eldritch Grasp-15d6 bludgeoning damage to one enemy. If the enemy fails a strength saving throw it takes an extra 2d4 damage and can't take actions or re-actions for 2 turns.
9th level: Eldritch Storm- Enemies in a 40-foot sphere must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, they take 20d6 force damage and 10d10 bludgeoning damage and cannot take actions or reactions for 5 turns. On a successful save they take half damage and suffer no additional effects.
or 5th level : eldritch shelter create a undetectable entrance to a pocket dimension house perfect to protect you from the terrible chaos and nightmare that your patron unleash on the world while you snooze or fix your armor/weapon/cook
I love warlocks, they are my favorite class of them all. However they are definitely under powered.
Their selling points can be a melee full caster, utility, etc, but as a magic caster, they aren't on the same level as others. As melee, they don't compare to others like a paladin, ranger, or fighter. One way they try to balance things is probably regaining spell slots during a short rest, but it still takes a few hours to get back 4, maybe 5 at best with eldritch master. A lot of their invocations use up spell slots to, which sucks.
All in all, they just aren't on the same level as other classes, and it would probably give them a strong advantage to have a 5th base spell slot. Even if it doesn't seem like much.
I love warlocks, they are my favorite class of them all. However they are definitely under powered.
Their selling points can be a melee full caster, utility, etc, but as a magic caster, they aren't on the same level as others. As melee, they don't compare to others like a paladin, ranger, or fighter. One way they try to balance things is probably regaining spell slots during a short rest, but it still takes a few hours to get back 4, maybe 5 at best with eldritch master. A lot of their invocations use up spell slots to, which sucks.
All in all, they just aren't on the same level as other classes, and it would probably give them a strong advantage to have a 5th base spell slot. Even if it doesn't seem like much.
Quick Homebrew to close the power gap for Warlocks is to make any invocation that grants a new spell to also grant a free once a day casting of the spell. Spending an invocation is enough of a cost, shouldn't take a spell slot as well.
Warlock is not generally underpowered, the "lack of spell slots" is made up for by their flexibility between melee and spellcasting. Plus, they don't focus on spell slots as much as casting spells at will or empowering cantrips. At higher levels they recieve more spell slots as well, so, in all honesty, perhaps you are just not playing a warlock well or have not leveled up enough for your liking.
Warlock is not generally underpowered, the "lack of spell slots" is made up for by their flexibility between melee and spellcasting. Plus, they don't focus on spell slots as much as casting spells at will or empowering cantrips. At higher levels they recieve more spell slots as well, so, in all honesty, perhaps you are just not playing a warlock well or have not leveled up enough for your liking.
Not sure " made up for by their flexibility between melee and spellcasting" is a valid argument when you consider Bladesinger. Different but very effective melee caster counterpoint to Hexblade yet gets full caster spell slots. Hexblade does more damage arguably but Bladesinger is hardier with a realistic +5 to AC, extra speed and +5 to Constitution saves while Bladesong is active. Bladesinger also gets extra attack automatically without spending an Invocation and gains further bonuses to defense and damage output similar and in some ways better than Hexblade.
Now don't get me wrong- Warlock invocations add ALOT of utility to Warlock that most Wizards would envy I gather (Spam utility spells that don't need to be known (Detect Magic, Levitate, Invisibility etc; add damage to spells, augment your spells etc) but by all fair comparisons Warlocks are under-powered as a caster class and it's very disingenuous to try to claim it's ok because they aren't supposed to be full casters as so many do.
Realistically they need probably +1 spell slots at all levels, their "capstone" ability should be something they get at like level 14-16 time frame and all capstones should be replaced with something similar to Paladin's where they become temporarily empowered as avatars of their patrons.
I created a path of the tome warlock. That could solo dragons in their lairs and defeat them, over time.
solo them. He had 11 AC.
there is SOOO much flexibility you can do with a warlock depending on the invocations and such you pick. You got to look beyond the “extra strong eldritch blast” trope of warlock that is super common.
I mean, a built warlock can solo whatever, but so can any class really. Other classes dont need to really build though, they can just come across those abilities sometimes.
Although, soloing is extremely easy if you just use imprisonment, worked for soloing a tarasque.
I mean, a built warlock can solo whatever, but so can any class really. Other classes dont need to really build though, they can just come across those abilities sometimes.
Although, soloing is extremely easy if you just use imprisonment, worked for soloing a tarasque.
Oh sorry. I wasn’t specific enough.
At level 9. Not level 20. And with no magic items or weapons. Just actual abilities. Preparing some traps. Aspect of the moon, and harassing the dragon to where it couldn’t sleep.
Played Warlocks...alot. They are not under-powered they just are not easy mode. A well played Warlock can hold its own in any encounter while being able to really run roughshod over the non-combat aspects of the game as well.
Played Warlocks...alot. They are not under-powered they just are not easy mode. A well played Warlock can hold its own in any encounter while being able to really run roughshod over the non-combat aspects of the game as well.
exactly.
Most classes. You just min max. Pick a niche. And autopilot. Warlocks need a little bit more than that.
I found this out the hard way as my first ever character was a warlock (fiend, tome pact) because I wanted to play a warlock (it sounds cooler than wizard lol).
Warlocks are shit, there I've said it but let me clarify.
Warlocks are shit at being great at one thing, where they excel is being good at everything. You can build a Warlock that can back up every other class and character, you need melee backup warlocks can do that, ranged back up warlocks can do that, spells yup, healing, sneak, steal, persuade, intimdate yup, yeah, yes and sure why not.
They can do all that with a single attribute, without min maxing either. Sure you can focus down one specific route, but you still won't be great at that one thing (just better) and you will still be good at all the others. So this kind of makes up for the lack of spells, which you get back after a short rest, you stop for a bite to eat, that's a short rest, got a ring of spell storing load the damn thing when you wake up in the morning, by the time you've finished breakfast you've had a short rest and have all your spells back.
It took me a while to realise this, but I'd argue that Warlocks are a bit OP because of their ability to do everything.
I created a path of the tome warlock. That could solo dragons in their lairs and defeat them, over time.
solo them. He had 11 AC.
there is SOOO much flexibility you can do with a warlock depending on the invocations and such you pick. You got to look beyond the “extra strong eldritch blast” trope of warlock that is super common.
You had a very forgiving and gracious DM who ALLOWED you to solo a dragon in it's lair with a level 9 character.
I created a path of the tome warlock. That could solo dragons in their lairs and defeat them, over time.
solo them. He had 11 AC.
there is SOOO much flexibility you can do with a warlock depending on the invocations and such you pick. You got to look beyond the “extra strong eldritch blast” trope of warlock that is super common.
You had a very forgiving and gracious DM who ALLOWED you to solo a dragon in it's lair with a level 9 character.
wasnt “allowed”
she was definitely trying to kill me.
but red dragon. Dead. Green dragon. Dead. She killed me with the platinum dragon.
she made me do this nonstop until I died. Just to prove it “couldn’t” be done. (I had said I could solo dragons. Not solo any dragon. So that’s what spurred this. Okay... I am going to forcibly find a way to make you do this until you either kill every type or die.) You do realize, at level 9, with 11 AC. the dragon catching me, and attacking me, is almost guaranteed to kill me in 1 round...
but yeah. It’s cool that you think you know how it went down. 😉👍
It was a really fun session that “went to crap”. Turned into the DM is now playing Dragons as PC. I am playing my person as a PC. One of the other players had to take over as the DM and set up duplicate boards on opposite sides of the room so we couldn’t see what each other was doing.
other players were making actual bets on it. It turned out to be quite fun.
but yes....
I can see why you would assume the DM graciously allowed it. Since you didn’t bother to ask any details of the “how much time did it take” or “how did you do it”
I created a path of the tome warlock. That could solo dragons in their lairs and defeat them, over time.
solo them. He had 11 AC.
there is SOOO much flexibility you can do with a warlock depending on the invocations and such you pick. You got to look beyond the “extra strong eldritch blast” trope of warlock that is super common.
You had a very forgiving and gracious DM who ALLOWED you to solo a dragon in it's lair with a level 9 character.
wasnt “allowed”
she was definitely trying to kill me.
but red dragon. Dead. Green dragon. Dead. She killed me with the platinum dragon.
she made me do this nonstop until I died. Just to prove it “couldn’t” be done. (I had said I could solo dragons. Not solo any dragon. So that’s what spurred this. Okay... I am going to forcibly find a way to make you do this until you either kill every type or die.) You do realize, at level 9, with 11 AC. the dragon catching me, and attacking me, is almost guaranteed to kill me in 1 round...
but yeah. It’s cool that you think you know how it went down. 😉👍
Easy there big fellah, wasn't trying to get your feathers all ruffled. Just saying, unless I am misunderstanding what you are representing, it's not a realistic scenario that you defeated a dragon with lair actions of an equivalent CR without some behind the scenes DM fiat at play. You do you though. Peace out.
It was a really fun session that “went to crap”. Turned into the DM is now playing Dragons as PC. I am playing my person as a PC. One of the other players had to take over as the DM and set up duplicate boards on opposite sides of the room so we couldn’t see what each other was doing.
other players were making actual bets on it. It turned out to be quite fun.
but yes....
I can see why you would assume the DM graciously allowed it. Since you didn’t bother to ask any details of the “how much time did it take” or “how did you do it”
Why would I bother to ask details? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof so I would argue the burden is on you since you seem to care very much about it. Either the dragon was woefully underpowered for your CR9 PC or DM Fiat came into play. Unless you are the living embodiment of the character Domino and rolled all Natural 20's and your opponent rolled all Natural 1's. I suppose that's theoretically possible but statistically unlikely and would again seem to be in the realm of extraordinary claims.
Well if it took long enough, maybe past an hour, most dms would probably be fed up with it. An in game hour would probably make the dragon fed up as well, to the point of using high stats and bonuses to track down a roughly 72 hp enemy, or blind sight.
I think the problem with warlocks is that it lacks class-exclusive spells that set it apart from other classes. Sure it has eldritch blast but the majority of the rest of its spell list is non- exclusive and I think the creators lost a lot of potential with making a line of warlock exclusive spells based on eldritch magic. If your DM lets you, I have my custom spells which might help:
2nd level: Eldritch Ray-2d8 force damage to all creatures in a 15-foot cone. Any creature within 5-feet of the cone's origin is pushed back 10-feet.
4th level: Eldritch Drain-drain 2d6 health from one enemy and deal that health as force damage to another enemy.
6th level: Eldritch Grasp-15d6 bludgeoning damage to one enemy. If the enemy fails a strength saving throw it takes an extra 2d4 damage and can't take actions or re-actions for 2 turns.
9th level: Eldritch Storm- Enemies in a 40-foot sphere must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, they take 20d6 force damage and 10d10 bludgeoning damage and cannot take actions or reactions for 5 turns. On a successful save they take half damage and suffer no additional effects.
Warlock has some class specific spells, they are all level 1. They also scale, which makes sense. I wish hex might have scaled the damage though.
or 5th level : eldritch shelter create a undetectable entrance to a pocket dimension house perfect to protect you from the terrible chaos and nightmare that your patron unleash on the world while you snooze or fix your armor/weapon/cook
Hunger of Hadar (3rd level) and Shadow of Moil (4th level) are also Warlock only spells.
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
I love warlocks, they are my favorite class of them all. However they are definitely under powered.
Their selling points can be a melee full caster, utility, etc, but as a magic caster, they aren't on the same level as others. As melee, they don't compare to others like a paladin, ranger, or fighter. One way they try to balance things is probably regaining spell slots during a short rest, but it still takes a few hours to get back 4, maybe 5 at best with eldritch master. A lot of their invocations use up spell slots to, which sucks.
All in all, they just aren't on the same level as other classes, and it would probably give them a strong advantage to have a 5th base spell slot. Even if it doesn't seem like much.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
Quick Homebrew to close the power gap for Warlocks is to make any invocation that grants a new spell to also grant a free once a day casting of the spell. Spending an invocation is enough of a cost, shouldn't take a spell slot as well.
Warlock is not generally underpowered, the "lack of spell slots" is made up for by their flexibility between melee and spellcasting. Plus, they don't focus on spell slots as much as casting spells at will or empowering cantrips. At higher levels they recieve more spell slots as well, so, in all honesty, perhaps you are just not playing a warlock well or have not leveled up enough for your liking.
Not sure " made up for by their flexibility between melee and spellcasting" is a valid argument when you consider Bladesinger. Different but very effective melee caster counterpoint to Hexblade yet gets full caster spell slots. Hexblade does more damage arguably but Bladesinger is hardier with a realistic +5 to AC, extra speed and +5 to Constitution saves while Bladesong is active. Bladesinger also gets extra attack automatically without spending an Invocation and gains further bonuses to defense and damage output similar and in some ways better than Hexblade.
Now don't get me wrong- Warlock invocations add ALOT of utility to Warlock that most Wizards would envy I gather (Spam utility spells that don't need to be known (Detect Magic, Levitate, Invisibility etc; add damage to spells, augment your spells etc) but by all fair comparisons Warlocks are under-powered as a caster class and it's very disingenuous to try to claim it's ok because they aren't supposed to be full casters as so many do.
Realistically they need probably +1 spell slots at all levels, their "capstone" ability should be something they get at like level 14-16 time frame and all capstones should be replaced with something similar to Paladin's where they become temporarily empowered as avatars of their patrons.
I created a path of the tome warlock. That could solo dragons in their lairs and defeat them, over time.
solo them. He had 11 AC.
there is SOOO much flexibility you can do with a warlock depending on the invocations and such you pick. You got to look beyond the “extra strong eldritch blast” trope of warlock that is super common.
Blank
I mean, a built warlock can solo whatever, but so can any class really. Other classes dont need to really build though, they can just come across those abilities sometimes.
Although, soloing is extremely easy if you just use imprisonment, worked for soloing a tarasque.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
Oh sorry. I wasn’t specific enough.
At level 9. Not level 20. And with no magic items or weapons. Just actual abilities. Preparing some traps. Aspect of the moon, and harassing the dragon to where it couldn’t sleep.
Blank
Played Warlocks...alot. They are not under-powered they just are not easy mode. A well played Warlock can hold its own in any encounter while being able to really run roughshod over the non-combat aspects of the game as well.
Abide.
exactly.
Most classes. You just min max. Pick a niche. And autopilot. Warlocks need a little bit more than that.
Blank
I found this out the hard way as my first ever character was a warlock (fiend, tome pact) because I wanted to play a warlock (it sounds cooler than wizard lol).
Warlocks are shit, there I've said it but let me clarify.
Warlocks are shit at being great at one thing, where they excel is being good at everything. You can build a Warlock that can back up every other class and character, you need melee backup warlocks can do that, ranged back up warlocks can do that, spells yup, healing, sneak, steal, persuade, intimdate yup, yeah, yes and sure why not.
They can do all that with a single attribute, without min maxing either. Sure you can focus down one specific route, but you still won't be great at that one thing (just better) and you will still be good at all the others. So this kind of makes up for the lack of spells, which you get back after a short rest, you stop for a bite to eat, that's a short rest, got a ring of spell storing load the damn thing when you wake up in the morning, by the time you've finished breakfast you've had a short rest and have all your spells back.
It took me a while to realise this, but I'd argue that Warlocks are a bit OP because of their ability to do everything.
From Within Chaos Comes Order!
You had a very forgiving and gracious DM who ALLOWED you to solo a dragon in it's lair with a level 9 character.
wasnt “allowed”
she was definitely trying to kill me.
but red dragon. Dead. Green dragon. Dead. She killed me with the platinum dragon.
she made me do this nonstop until I died. Just to prove it “couldn’t” be done. (I had said I could solo dragons. Not solo any dragon. So that’s what spurred this. Okay... I am going to forcibly find a way to make you do this until you either kill every type or die.) You do realize, at level 9, with 11 AC. the dragon catching me, and attacking me, is almost guaranteed to kill me in 1 round...
but yeah. It’s cool that you think you know how it went down. 😉👍
Blank
It was a really fun session that “went to crap”. Turned into the DM is now playing Dragons as PC. I am playing my person as a PC. One of the other players had to take over as the DM and set up duplicate boards on opposite sides of the room so we couldn’t see what each other was doing.
other players were making actual bets on it. It turned out to be quite fun.
but yes....
I can see why you would assume the DM graciously allowed it. Since you didn’t bother to ask any details of the “how much time did it take” or “how did you do it”
Blank
Easy there big fellah, wasn't trying to get your feathers all ruffled. Just saying, unless I am misunderstanding what you are representing, it's not a realistic scenario that you defeated a dragon with lair actions of an equivalent CR without some behind the scenes DM fiat at play. You do you though. Peace out.
Why would I bother to ask details? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof so I would argue the burden is on you since you seem to care very much about it. Either the dragon was woefully underpowered for your CR9 PC or DM Fiat came into play. Unless you are the living embodiment of the character Domino and rolled all Natural 20's and your opponent rolled all Natural 1's. I suppose that's theoretically possible but statistically unlikely and would again seem to be in the realm of extraordinary claims.
Well if it took long enough, maybe past an hour, most dms would probably be fed up with it. An in game hour would probably make the dragon fed up as well, to the point of using high stats and bonuses to track down a roughly 72 hp enemy, or blind sight.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.