Maybe I am misunderstanding how you can play D&D...
but I was under the impression that there were spells like. Summon lesser demon, summon greater demon, conjure animals, etc.
where... you don’t have to attack something yourself directly?
but no. Your theory of “everything is BS unless evidence is provided first” makes a lot more sense. Excuse me while I go walk off the edge of flat earth.
Maybe I am misunderstanding how you can play D&D...
but I was under the impression that there were spells like. Summon lesser demon, summon greater demon, conjure animals, etc.
where... you don’t have to attack something yourself directly?
but no. Your theory of “everything is BS unless evidence is provided first” makes a lot more sense. Excuse me while I go walk off the edge of flat earth.
Oi vey. Someone got triggered when their superman story got playfully questioned. I'm not saying everything is BS unless evidence. I am saying it defies ready explanation and you have provided no logical explanation so yes the gaming community is likely to be doubtful.
Doing the math, even using both Warlock spell slots on summon greater demon and getting the most powerful demon available, the barlgura, the math is a stretch. Barlgura has some limited casting which might help SLIGHTLY but the Dragon is likely to save for most stats on a DC13. In terms of pure fighting, Barlgura will hit 55% of the time for an average of 15.95 dpr. Dragon will hit the Barlgura 75% of the time for an average of 33.5 dpr. So each Barlgura lasts on average 2 rounds. So in that time they have done an average of 63.8 damage to the Dragon. He is still sitting on approx 114 HP and you no longer have spell slots.
Again- Lady Luck can make the above go a bit more in your favor but statistically speaking, it doesn't look great. But hey if you made it happen, let us know how- probably is a good story!
Maybe I am misunderstanding how you can play D&D...
but I was under the impression that there were spells like. Summon lesser demon, summon greater demon, conjure animals, etc.
where... you don’t have to attack something yourself directly?
but no. Your theory of “everything is BS unless evidence is provided first” makes a lot more sense. Excuse me while I go walk off the edge of flat earth.
Oi vey. Someone got triggered when their superman story got playfully questioned. I'm not saying everything is BS unless evidence. I am saying it defies ready explanation and you have provided no logical explanation so yes the gaming community is likely to be doubtful.
Doing the math, even using both Warlock spell slots on summon greater demon and getting the most powerful demon available, the barlgura, the math is a stretch. Barlgura has some limited casting which might help SLIGHTLY but the Dragon is likely to save for most stats on a DC13. In terms of pure fighting, Barlgura will hit 55% of the time for an average of 15.95 dpr. Dragon will hit the Barlgura 75% of the time for an average of 33.5 dpr. So each Barlgura lasts on average 2 rounds. So in that time they have done an average of 63.8 damage to the Dragon. He is still sitting on approx 114 HP and you no longer have spell slots.
Again- Lady Luck can make the above go a bit more in your favor but statistically speaking, it doesn't look great. But hey if you made it happen, let us know how- probably is a good story!
Spell slots recover on short rest.
dragon doesn’t heal until long rest.
aspect of moon you don’t sleep.
i can keep connecting more dots.
look at title of thread. I gave an example of something achievable with a warlock, that doesn’t require LUCK, or a DM being lenient, just knowing what you’re doing with the warlock invocations, spells, etc.
i specifically stated it as I did, to be asked how, by the OP, or anyone who does not think they know warlock well enough. you seemed to clearly think you knew warlock well enough. Which is why I am wondering why you need it spelled out?
”doing the math”
I guarantee your math is wrong. Since you still have yet to figure out the key part was the “over time”
this feat, each dragon, took 3-16, in game, days. To accomplish. As sometimes. Couldn’t safely harass dragon enough so it healed and had to start over. Other times didn’t. Some dragons their element hurts more than others for the method.
theres no triggering here. If I am triggered by anything it is at how you are acting like you know completely everything and can’t possibly incorrect, when you are so easily wrong about it. Since you are assuming details that didn’t happen. Rather than using your resources available to you.
pact of tome. Aspect of moon. Over time. Didn’t attack it directly. Did the dragons ever know I was there? They clearly knew something was there after being attacked but did they ever know I was there?
Did you know.. you can summon a demon. 30 minutes away from a dragon if you know where the dragon is? As long as you can make the saves. Now 30 minutes is an extreme hyperbole analogy. But the fact is. You can have the demon do that. Dimension door to the other side of a cavern wall where you know you are safe. And begin short resting there hidden. Waiting and then going again. And rinse and repeat.
eventually the dragon comes looking for what’s doing this. Well. That’s a key part of hiding now isn’t it. I recommend the “meld Into stone” ritual when you have the evocation to learn any and all rituals.
hide inside stone walls while short resting while the demon fights and dies.
The platinum dragon obviously was the one who found me.
edit:
”Superman story”
yeah. Superman. Taking 3-16 in game days, of every 2-3 hours, attacking something and hiding. Really Superman.
more Sisyphus than Superman.
but hey. Keep on not knowing how skills and abilities can be used. You seem to have fun with your limited knowledge. I encourage you to keep at it. Maybe you’ll have even more fun when you get more knowledge, and can
The warlock is not at all under powered. I haven't really been keeping up with this thread but it keeps popping up. I suppose it's worth coming in again.
Eldritch blast with the agonizing blast invocation is far and away the best cantrip in the game. It's on par with a fighter in terms of damage. And that's not even counting in your Target is hexed. You can cast hex once and change targets on a bonus action up to its duration and it only costs one spell slot. Against a hexed target, the warlock surpasses the damage a fighter can do (unless they use action surge). If you add great weapon master, the fighter catches up but that requires a feat.
Then the warlock has spells. The mechanic is very different than other full casters but it's still powerful. They have some fantastic spells that can pack a punch, aid in defense, or have an out of combat use.
The limited number of spell slots is augmented by the fact they regain spells on a short rest. Some other casters can do this too, but warlocks do it better.
To further augment the warlocks spell power, they have mystic arcanum. This grants a single, higher level spell that can be cast once per long rest for each level of arcanum. It's basically one more spell slot every two levels between 11 and 17 with being a more limited on what can be cast (no up or down casting).
Being a charisma character, they can be just as influential on the social side as a bard if chosen to build that way.
They are also arguably one of the most versatile classes. Depending on choices such as subclass, spell selections, and Eldritch invocation selections, the warlock can fill pretty much any roll in combat. They can pass as healers, ranged damage, melee damage, or tank. Their limited spell slots do mean they can't do as good a job at battle field control as other casters, but that's not to say they can't do it.
Comparing a feature here or there against another class is only useful when comparing the whole. Saying that subclass of that class is better at doing this isn't terribly useful because there are trade offs all over. If you don't like warlock mechanics then play something else that you'll enjoy more. T
While pact of the tome gives you 1st level ritual spells, where'd you get meld into stone? Its a cleric and druid spell, so it shouldn't be written in a spellbook to copy. You said an invocation though, so I don't know which one it would be.
Also what kind of stealth rolls did you get, and what kind of red dragon was it? Even young ones have +8 to perception, and blindsight could hear or smell within 30 feet. It was ballsy with a red one to, because it would have probably been fine destroying the wall you were in if it suspected it. The green one though, I imagine just leaving its lair when it was almost dead.
While pact of the tome gives you 1st level ritual spells, where'd you get meld into stone? Its a cleric and druid spell, so it shouldn't be written in a spellbook to copy. You said an invocation though, so I don't know which one it would be.
Also what kind of stealth rolls did you get, and what kind of red dragon was it? Even young ones have +8 to perception, and blindsight could hear or smell within 30 feet. It was ballsy with a red one to, because it would have probably been fine destroying the wall you were in if it suspected it. The green one though, I imagine just leaving its lair when it was almost dead.
Excellent question!
Book of Ancient Secrets
Prerequisite: Pact of the Tome feature You can now inscribe magical rituals in your Book of Shadows. Choose two 1st-level spells that have the ritual tag from any class's spell list; these rituals needn’t be from the same spell list. The spells appear in the book and don't count against the number of spells you know. With your Book of Shadows in hand, you can cast the chosen spells as rituals. You can't cast the spells except as rituals, unless you've learned them by some other means. You can also cast a warlock spell you know as a ritual if it has the ritual tag.
On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell. For each level of the spell, the transcription process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp for the rare inks needed to inscribe it.
The platinum dragon obviously was the one who found me.
edit:
”Superman story”
yeah. Superman. Taking 3-16 in game days, of every 2-3 hours, attacking something and hiding. Really Superman.
more Sisyphus than Superman.
but hey. Keep on not knowing how skills and abilities can be used. You seem to have fun with your limited knowledge. I encourage you to keep at it. Maybe you’ll have even more fun when you get more knowledge, and can
perform your own “Superman” stories.
Cool story overall. I like the idea of resting/hiding while in stone- that's a good one. I don't use the spell much since I am almost always in a party so my hats off for the creative solo uses. There were at least 2 DM homebrew rules that I counted to make it happen but you know what, I don't get on the forums to fight people so I will just say- enjoy the memory of your awesome marathon battle with dragons. Sounds like you had a blast.
The warlock is not at all under powered. I haven't really been keeping up with this thread but it keeps popping up. I suppose it's worth coming in again.
Eldritch blast with the agonizing blast invocation is far and away the best cantrip in the game. It's on par with a fighter in terms of damage. And that's not even counting in your Target is hexed. You can cast hex once and change targets on a bonus action up to its duration and it only costs one spell slot. Against a hexed target, the warlock surpasses the damage a fighter can do (unless they use action surge). If you add great weapon master, the fighter catches up but that requires a feat.
Then the warlock has spells. The mechanic is very different than other full casters but it's still powerful. They have some fantastic spells that can pack a punch, aid in defense, or have an out of combat use.
The limited number of spell slots is augmented by the fact they regain spells on a short rest. Some other casters can do this too, but warlocks do it better.
To further augment the warlocks spell power, they have mystic arcanum. This grants a single, higher level spell that can be cast once per long rest for each level of arcanum. It's basically one more spell slot every two levels between 11 and 17 with being a more limited on what can be cast (no up or down casting).
Being a charisma character, they can be just as influential on the social side as a bard if chosen to build that way.
They are also arguably one of the most versatile classes. Depending on choices such as subclass, spell selections, and Eldritch invocation selections, the warlock can fill pretty much any roll in combat. They can pass as healers, ranged damage, melee damage, or tank. Their limited spell slots do mean they can't do as good a job at battle field control as other casters, but that's not to say they can't do it.
Comparing a feature here or there against another class is only useful when comparing the whole. Saying that subclass of that class is better at doing this isn't terribly useful because there are trade offs all over. If you don't like warlock mechanics then play something else that you'll enjoy more. T
TL;DR warlocks are good.
Warlocks ARE good. For sure- no doubt. They have infinitely more cool points than any of the other caster classes and tons of flexibility. That doesn't change the fact that some of their mechanics and features are poorly balanced. Something doesn't have to be bad for you to point out a flaw in it.
Prerequisite: Pact of the Tome feature You can now inscribe magical rituals in your Book of Shadows. Choose two 1st-level spells that have the ritual tag from any class's spell list; these rituals needn’t be from the same spell list. The spells appear in the book and don't count against the number of spells you know. With your Book of Shadows in hand, you can cast the chosen spells as rituals. You can't cast the spells except as rituals, unless you've learned them by some other means. You can also cast a warlock spell you know as a ritual if it has the ritual tag.
On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell. For each level of the spell, the transcription process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp for the rare inks needed to inscribe it.
Not to pester you, but it still doesn't answer my question. Even though it is any spell list, meld into stone is 3rd level. The book of ancient secrets only gives you 1st level rituals. The ones you pick up have to be written in a book or something.
Prerequisite: Pact of the Tome feature You can now inscribe magical rituals in your Book of Shadows. Choose two 1st-level spells that have the ritual tag from any class's spell list; these rituals needn’t be from the same spell list. The spells appear in the book and don't count against the number of spells you know. With your Book of Shadows in hand, you can cast the chosen spells as rituals. You can't cast the spells except as rituals, unless you've learned them by some other means. You can also cast a warlock spell you know as a ritual if it has the ritual tag.
On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell. For each level of the spell, the transcription process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp for the rare inks needed to inscribe it.
Not to pester you, but it still doesn't answer my question. Even though it is any spell list, meld into stone is 3rd level. The book of ancient secrets only gives you 1st level rituals. The ones you pick up have to be written in a book or something.
the 2nd paragraph of it there:
On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell.
you add it to your book of shadows. So you just need to find someone who knows the spell. And learn it from them. In the case of meld into stone I learned it from a Druid. And it took 6 hours and 150 gold to transcribe. To do this you just have to be atleast warlock level 6, with this invocation.
edit: the book mentioned is always your personal book of shadows.
warlock seems cool, eldrich invocations are awesome and it’s great for role playing but the lack of spell slots just makes warlock kind of bad. Does any body have any home brew improvements to help even the playing field for warlocks.
the lack of spell slots is balanced by the insane recovery rate of spell slots back.
Warlocks, being able to do stuff that only Bards can really do besides them, in terms of doing literally anything, I don’t think there’s much playing field that needs to be leveled. Few people go full warlock. But compare the warlock level 20 capstone to other casters level 20 capstones and its pretty damn good. warlocks can have one of the best DPS of any character class. 1 eldritch smite is a good extra 6d8 force damage (at level 9+)
a paladin would need to be level 17 to do that smite damage to a non-undead enemy. And the damage type would be radiant which is much more resisted than Force damage. Force damage is a dam type that is quite powerful to have.
besides the fact the DM taking over the dragons as a PC: to reduce meta ability.
and another player then having to step in as DM, and run 2 identical boards, to reduce meta.
Arrghh I literally have no malice here so I almost don't want to say. I'll simply say Monsters DO short rest and Aspect of the Moon doesn't let you do what you think it does. BUT IT"S OK! Homebrew is not bad. There is more but I will absolutely not say it so don't ask lol. Cheers fellow D&D lover.
warlock seems cool, eldrich invocations are awesome and it’s great for role playing but the lack of spell slots just makes warlock kind of bad. Does any body have any home brew improvements to help even the playing field for warlocks.
the lack of spell slots is balanced by the insane recovery rate of spell slots back.
Warlocks, being able to do stuff that only Bards can really do besides them, in terms of doing literally anything, I don’t think there’s much playing field that needs to be leveled. Few people go full warlock. But compare the warlock level 20 capstone to other casters level 20 capstones and its pretty damn good. warlocks can have one of the best DPS of any character class. 1 eldritch smite is a good extra 6d8 force damage (at level 9+)
a paladin would need to be level 17 to do that smite damage to a non-undead enemy. And the damage type would be radiant which is much more resisted than Force damage. Force damage is a dam type that is quite powerful to have.
And then you're in a party that doesn't need short rest or doesn't want to, and you're even less usefull than a fighter with a butter knife...
Yeah terrific darn good mechanic.
If your whole deal is to be dependend on the Good will of the rest of the party, unless you play with good friends, you're utterly screwed.
I allready said it, but more times that i want to recollect i would end up in a party, that din't take Short rests, cause it was quote " a waste of time", so off course i'm sitting there wiht my 2 spell slots..., and all the invocations that requires a pact slot to cast and you can do it only once per LONG rest...
And thats where the issue is, there's a huge gap between the needs of the different classes to recover their ressources, so if you're in a party where none or very little of their features requires a short rest, you are screwed, and not all players or parties are that friendly...
Lvl20 capstone Warlock is lazy, and NOT great at all, other caster classes can do the same, and it isn't even a lvl20 cap stone ability (Sorceror's with their Sorcery points, Wizards with Arcane recovery, UA Clerics and Pally's with their new Channel divinity).
Its a nice lets say lvl 8 or 12 capstone ability, NOT a lvl 20, thats why no one is interested in going lvl 20 Warlocks or very rarely( if you play in a game that doesn't allow MCing, *shudder* the horror...)
Also i don't get how you end with 6d8 Eldritch smites..., Eldritch smite is 1D8 per slotlvls, since you only have 5th lvl slots...
Paladins Divine Smite is 2D8+1d8 per lvl and extra D8 on fiends, undead, wich is moot anyway as far as comparison goes, since both are limited to 5D8( 6d8 in the case of fiends/undead).
The Divine smite however isn't limited to ONCE per turn, contrary to Eldritch Smite, so Paladin Divine Smite is always better, even if yes Eldritch smite is good.
And i don't see How you can place Warlocks and Bards on the same level..., Bard is a full caster, as lots of support mecanics and can learn any kind of spell regardless of class every 4 lvl starting at lvl10 and doesn't need much to be turned into a Rogue Lite, even without multiclassing.
In terms of versatility Bards are far more superior, to the point where they can reach Anime Protagonists level of ridiculous, while Warlocks have like 5 invocations that lets them do stuff at will( usually minor things that doesn't affect others) and anything else needs a Pact Slot( so not any kind of spellslot) AND can only be done ONCE per long rest( once again giving the middle finger to the Short rest mecanic of the Warlock).
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
The warlock is not at all under powered. I haven't really been keeping up with this thread but it keeps popping up. I suppose it's worth coming in again.
Eldritch blast with the agonizing blast invocation is far and away the best cantrip in the game. It's on par with a fighter in terms of damage. And that's not even counting in your Target is hexed. You can cast hex once and change targets on a bonus action up to its duration and it only costs one spell slot. Against a hexed target, the warlock surpasses the damage a fighter can do (unless they use action surge). If you add great weapon master, the fighter catches up but that requires a feat.
Then the warlock has spells. The mechanic is very different than other full casters but it's still powerful. They have some fantastic spells that can pack a punch, aid in defense, or have an out of combat use.
The limited number of spell slots is augmented by the fact they regain spells on a short rest. Some other casters can do this too, but warlocks do it better.
To further augment the warlocks spell power, they have mystic arcanum. This grants a single, higher level spell that can be cast once per long rest for each level of arcanum. It's basically one more spell slot every two levels between 11 and 17 with being a more limited on what can be cast (no up or down casting).
Being a charisma character, they can be just as influential on the social side as a bard if chosen to build that way.
They are also arguably one of the most versatile classes. Depending on choices such as subclass, spell selections, and Eldritch invocation selections, the warlock can fill pretty much any roll in combat. They can pass as healers, ranged damage, melee damage, or tank. Their limited spell slots do mean they can't do as good a job at battle field control as other casters, but that's not to say they can't do it.
Comparing a feature here or there against another class is only useful when comparing the whole. Saying that subclass of that class is better at doing this isn't terribly useful because there are trade offs all over. If you don't like warlock mechanics then play something else that you'll enjoy more. T
TL;DR warlocks are good.
Warlocks ARE good. For sure- no doubt. They have infinitely more cool points than any of the other caster classes and tons of flexibility. That doesn't change the fact that some of their mechanics and features are poorly balanced. Something doesn't have to be bad for you to point out a flaw in it.
It is not a fact that they are poorly designed or balanced. It's an opinion and not one based on facts. I explained why they're different and their strengths and trade offs. They're a very powerful class. They may be more complicated then an average class but that doesn't mean they're poorly designed or balanced. It just means there is more for you to learn to understand how it works.
I will say that it is balanced around a certain number of short rests. If you never get a short rest, they will be under powered but not that bad. They'll still have access to the best cantrip in the game as well as a lot of other useful features. Still, just talk to your DM about it getting more short rests. The DMG has advice on this.
The Warlock is only underpowered if the DM routinely allows characters to take long rests in dungeons or runs one big battle at a time. If the DM runs a series of fights and penalizes long rests mid-adventure (which she should), the warlock is as strong as any other class.
besides the fact the DM taking over the dragons as a PC: to reduce meta ability.
and another player then having to step in as DM, and run 2 identical boards, to reduce meta.
Arrghh I literally have no malice here so I almost don't want to say. I'll simply say Monsters DO short rest and Aspect of the Moon doesn't let you do what you think it does. BUT IT"S OK! Homebrew is not bad. There is more but I will absolutely not say it so don't ask lol. Cheers fellow D&D lover.
Aspect of the moon means he doesn’t need to sleep right?
it seems to me like the person is tradings their exhaustion for the dragons exhaustion. And the short rest thing seemed to me to be implied in why that it took 3-16 days to kill because he had to exhaust all the hit dice from the dragon short resting too.
to Chaosrex’s point:
“And then you're in a party that doesn't need short rest or doesn't want to, and you're even less usefull than a fighter with a butter knife...
Yeah terrific darn good mechanic.”
that’s on the DM then. Short rest and hit dice is a specific mechanic created into 5e different from other versions for the reason of giving players more options to heal and such whilst adventuring. If there is a lack of short resting opportunities than it is your DM not using the modules how they are where short rest situations are designed in. Being too lenient in allowing long rests, which can seriously nerf the overall challenge of a campaign, or your party members being selfish or stubborn or overly cautious. In which case maybe your char doesn’t fit in with them to begin with.
”terrific darn good mechanic”
it is. When the DM runs the campaigns as designed. I don’t know what to say on that. I think you might want to try playing more modules, less Homebrew a, or with different DMs to see if there’s a difference. To broaden the sample size for your statement. But by mechanic and design. If the warlocks short rest thing was as useless as you say. Then it makes zero sense to have any hit dice.
This whole argument seems to boil down to Two things: does your DM allow for short rests, and do your fellow players respect the short rest advantage Warlocks have?
In my party, there are two characters that distinctly benefit from short rests: myself as a warlock and the monk. We've used them to recover ki and spells. We've used it after defeating "mini bosses" but where the adventure wouldn't reasonably allow for a full 8 hour rest. For example: a hold in a ship, just outside an immediately dangerous area but where a patrol of bad guys might discover us, etc. There are multiple causes for use of short rest, and both players and DMs need to respect the core features of a given class. That's part of respecting both the players and the game itself. I don't find any particular class OP, except maybe Paladins, but I also think the term OP primarily refers to in combat situations, and combat is only one Aspect of the game. The game isn't supposed to be just that, but Discovery of treasure, negotiation with various and sundry others, clever solutions to problems, etc. Sure, I love the satisfying crunch of my Eldritch blast as it implodes the internal organs of the orc chieftain, but that's only part of the game.
If the only part of the game that matters is combat and the other players and the DM don't respect the utility of the short rest, then I suggest that one is playing in the wrong group and may either a) choose a class that is more friendly to the DM and other's style of play, or b) wish the group well and move on to another. Ultimately, it's a game and it should be fun. If it's not, then why are any of us playing?
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May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
at first it wasn't about the short rest but rather the spells they have access to
I was complaining that they didn't had a spell to make a home even for "leomund tiny hut" you need to have the book of ancient secret
like you work for a being that is powerfull enough to bend reality to give you powers/spells I feel like at some point you should be able to make a safe space for yourself ESPECIALLY since most of the time your patreon is trying to destroy the world and demiplane is not cutting it
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Maybe I am misunderstanding how you can play D&D...
but I was under the impression that there were spells like. Summon lesser demon, summon greater demon, conjure animals, etc.
where... you don’t have to attack something yourself directly?
but no. Your theory of “everything is BS unless evidence is provided first” makes a lot more sense. Excuse me while I go walk off the edge of flat earth.
Blank
Oi vey. Someone got triggered when their superman story got playfully questioned. I'm not saying everything is BS unless evidence. I am saying it defies ready explanation and you have provided no logical explanation so yes the gaming community is likely to be doubtful.
Doing the math, even using both Warlock spell slots on summon greater demon and getting the most powerful demon available, the barlgura, the math is a stretch. Barlgura has some limited casting which might help SLIGHTLY but the Dragon is likely to save for most stats on a DC13. In terms of pure fighting, Barlgura will hit 55% of the time for an average of 15.95 dpr. Dragon will hit the Barlgura 75% of the time for an average of 33.5 dpr. So each Barlgura lasts on average 2 rounds. So in that time they have done an average of 63.8 damage to the Dragon. He is still sitting on approx 114 HP and you no longer have spell slots.
Again- Lady Luck can make the above go a bit more in your favor but statistically speaking, it doesn't look great. But hey if you made it happen, let us know how- probably is a good story!
Spell slots recover on short rest.
dragon doesn’t heal until long rest.
aspect of moon you don’t sleep.
i can keep connecting more dots.
look at title of thread. I gave an example of something achievable with a warlock, that doesn’t require LUCK, or a DM being lenient, just knowing what you’re doing with the warlock invocations, spells, etc.
i specifically stated it as I did, to be asked how, by the OP, or anyone who does not think they know warlock well enough.
you seemed to clearly think you knew warlock well enough. Which is why I am wondering why you need it spelled out?
”doing the math”
I guarantee your math is wrong. Since you still have yet to figure out the key part was the “over time”
this feat, each dragon, took 3-16, in game, days. To accomplish. As sometimes. Couldn’t safely harass dragon enough so it healed and had to start over. Other times didn’t. Some dragons their element hurts more than others for the method.
theres no triggering here. If I am triggered by anything it is at how you are acting like you know completely everything and can’t possibly incorrect, when you are so easily wrong about it. Since you are assuming details that didn’t happen. Rather than using your resources available to you.
pact of tome. Aspect of moon. Over time. Didn’t attack it directly. Did the dragons ever know I was there? They clearly knew something was there after being attacked but did they ever know I was there?
Did you know.. you can summon a demon. 30 minutes away from a dragon if you know where the dragon is? As long as you can make the saves. Now 30 minutes is an extreme hyperbole analogy. But the fact is. You can have the demon do that. Dimension door to the other side of a cavern wall where you know you are safe. And begin short resting there hidden. Waiting and then going again. And rinse and repeat.
eventually the dragon comes looking for what’s doing this. Well. That’s a key part of hiding now isn’t it. I recommend the “meld Into stone” ritual when you have the evocation to learn any and all rituals.
hide inside stone walls while short resting while the demon fights and dies.
rinse and repeat.
need I go on?
Blank
The platinum dragon obviously was the one who found me.
edit:
”Superman story”
yeah. Superman. Taking 3-16 in game days, of every 2-3 hours, attacking something and hiding. Really Superman.
more Sisyphus than Superman.
but hey. Keep on not knowing how skills and abilities can be used. You seem to have fun with your limited knowledge. I encourage you to keep at it. Maybe you’ll have even more fun when you get more knowledge, and can
perform your own “Superman” stories.
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The warlock is not at all under powered. I haven't really been keeping up with this thread but it keeps popping up. I suppose it's worth coming in again.
Eldritch blast with the agonizing blast invocation is far and away the best cantrip in the game. It's on par with a fighter in terms of damage. And that's not even counting in your Target is hexed. You can cast hex once and change targets on a bonus action up to its duration and it only costs one spell slot. Against a hexed target, the warlock surpasses the damage a fighter can do (unless they use action surge). If you add great weapon master, the fighter catches up but that requires a feat.
Then the warlock has spells. The mechanic is very different than other full casters but it's still powerful. They have some fantastic spells that can pack a punch, aid in defense, or have an out of combat use.
The limited number of spell slots is augmented by the fact they regain spells on a short rest. Some other casters can do this too, but warlocks do it better.
To further augment the warlocks spell power, they have mystic arcanum. This grants a single, higher level spell that can be cast once per long rest for each level of arcanum. It's basically one more spell slot every two levels between 11 and 17 with being a more limited on what can be cast (no up or down casting).
Being a charisma character, they can be just as influential on the social side as a bard if chosen to build that way.
They are also arguably one of the most versatile classes. Depending on choices such as subclass, spell selections, and Eldritch invocation selections, the warlock can fill pretty much any roll in combat. They can pass as healers, ranged damage, melee damage, or tank. Their limited spell slots do mean they can't do as good a job at battle field control as other casters, but that's not to say they can't do it.
Comparing a feature here or there against another class is only useful when comparing the whole. Saying that subclass of that class is better at doing this isn't terribly useful because there are trade offs all over. If you don't like warlock mechanics then play something else that you'll enjoy more. T
TL;DR warlocks are good.
While pact of the tome gives you 1st level ritual spells, where'd you get meld into stone? Its a cleric and druid spell, so it shouldn't be written in a spellbook to copy. You said an invocation though, so I don't know which one it would be.
Also what kind of stealth rolls did you get, and what kind of red dragon was it? Even young ones have +8 to perception, and blindsight could hear or smell within 30 feet. It was ballsy with a red one to, because it would have probably been fine destroying the wall you were in if it suspected it. The green one though, I imagine just leaving its lair when it was almost dead.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
Excellent question!
Book of Ancient Secrets
Prerequisite: Pact of the Tome feature
You can now inscribe magical rituals in your Book of Shadows. Choose two 1st-level spells that have the ritual tag from any class's spell list; these rituals needn’t be from the same spell list. The spells appear in the book and don't count against the number of spells you know. With your Book of Shadows in hand, you can cast the chosen spells as rituals. You can't cast the spells except as rituals, unless you've learned them by some other means. You can also cast a warlock spell you know as a ritual if it has the ritual tag.
On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell. For each level of the spell, the transcription process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp for the rare inks needed to inscribe it.
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Cool story overall. I like the idea of resting/hiding while in stone- that's a good one. I don't use the spell much since I am almost always in a party so my hats off for the creative solo uses. There were at least 2 DM homebrew rules that I counted to make it happen but you know what, I don't get on the forums to fight people so I will just say- enjoy the memory of your awesome marathon battle with dragons. Sounds like you had a blast.
Warlocks ARE good. For sure- no doubt. They have infinitely more cool points than any of the other caster classes and tons of flexibility. That doesn't change the fact that some of their mechanics and features are poorly balanced. Something doesn't have to be bad for you to point out a flaw in it.
I’d be curious to hear these Homebrew rules?
besides the fact the DM taking over the dragons as a PC: to reduce meta ability.
and another player then having to step in as DM, and run 2 identical boards, to reduce meta.
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Not to pester you, but it still doesn't answer my question. Even though it is any spell list, meld into stone is 3rd level. The book of ancient secrets only gives you 1st level rituals. The ones you pick up have to be written in a book or something.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
the 2nd paragraph of it there:
On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell.
you add it to your book of shadows. So you just need to find someone who knows the spell. And learn it from them. In the case of meld into stone I learned it from a Druid. And it took 6 hours and 150 gold to transcribe. To do this you just have to be atleast warlock level 6, with this invocation.
edit: the book mentioned is always your personal book of shadows.
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the lack of spell slots is balanced by the insane recovery rate of spell slots back.
Warlocks, being able to do stuff that only Bards can really do besides them, in terms of doing literally anything, I don’t think there’s much playing field that needs to be leveled. Few people go full warlock. But compare the warlock level 20 capstone to other casters level 20 capstones and its pretty damn good.
warlocks can have one of the best DPS of any character class. 1 eldritch smite is a good extra 6d8 force damage (at level 9+)
a paladin would need to be level 17 to do that smite damage to a non-undead enemy. And the damage type would be radiant which is much more resisted than Force damage. Force damage is a dam type that is quite powerful to have.
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Arrghh I literally have no malice here so I almost don't want to say. I'll simply say Monsters DO short rest and Aspect of the Moon doesn't let you do what you think it does. BUT IT"S OK! Homebrew is not bad. There is more but I will absolutely not say it so don't ask lol. Cheers fellow D&D lover.
And then you're in a party that doesn't need short rest or doesn't want to, and you're even less usefull than a fighter with a butter knife...
Yeah terrific darn good mechanic.
If your whole deal is to be dependend on the Good will of the rest of the party, unless you play with good friends, you're utterly screwed.
I allready said it, but more times that i want to recollect i would end up in a party, that din't take Short rests, cause it was quote " a waste of time", so off course i'm sitting there wiht my 2 spell slots..., and all the invocations that requires a pact slot to cast and you can do it only once per LONG rest...
And thats where the issue is, there's a huge gap between the needs of the different classes to recover their ressources, so if you're in a party where none or very little of their features requires a short rest, you are screwed, and not all players or parties are that friendly...
Lvl20 capstone Warlock is lazy, and NOT great at all, other caster classes can do the same, and it isn't even a lvl20 cap stone ability (Sorceror's with their Sorcery points, Wizards with Arcane recovery, UA Clerics and Pally's with their new Channel divinity).
Its a nice lets say lvl 8 or 12 capstone ability, NOT a lvl 20, thats why no one is interested in going lvl 20 Warlocks or very rarely( if you play in a game that doesn't allow MCing, *shudder* the horror...)
Also i don't get how you end with 6d8 Eldritch smites..., Eldritch smite is 1D8 per slotlvls, since you only have 5th lvl slots...
Paladins Divine Smite is 2D8+1d8 per lvl and extra D8 on fiends, undead, wich is moot anyway as far as comparison goes, since both are limited to 5D8( 6d8 in the case of fiends/undead).
The Divine smite however isn't limited to ONCE per turn, contrary to Eldritch Smite, so Paladin Divine Smite is always better, even if yes Eldritch smite is good.
And i don't see How you can place Warlocks and Bards on the same level..., Bard is a full caster, as lots of support mecanics and can learn any kind of spell regardless of class every 4 lvl starting at lvl10 and doesn't need much to be turned into a Rogue Lite, even without multiclassing.
In terms of versatility Bards are far more superior, to the point where they can reach Anime Protagonists level of ridiculous, while Warlocks have like 5 invocations that lets them do stuff at will( usually minor things that doesn't affect others) and anything else needs a Pact Slot( so not any kind of spellslot) AND can only be done ONCE per long rest( once again giving the middle finger to the Short rest mecanic of the Warlock).
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
It is not a fact that they are poorly designed or balanced. It's an opinion and not one based on facts. I explained why they're different and their strengths and trade offs. They're a very powerful class. They may be more complicated then an average class but that doesn't mean they're poorly designed or balanced. It just means there is more for you to learn to understand how it works.
I will say that it is balanced around a certain number of short rests. If you never get a short rest, they will be under powered but not that bad. They'll still have access to the best cantrip in the game as well as a lot of other useful features. Still, just talk to your DM about it getting more short rests. The DMG has advice on this.
The Warlock is only underpowered if the DM routinely allows characters to take long rests in dungeons or runs one big battle at a time. If the DM runs a series of fights and penalizes long rests mid-adventure (which she should), the warlock is as strong as any other class.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Aspect of the moon means he doesn’t need to sleep right?
it seems to me like the person is tradings their exhaustion for the dragons exhaustion. And the short rest thing seemed to me to be implied in why that it took 3-16 days to kill because he had to exhaust all the hit dice from the dragon short resting too.
to Chaosrex’s point:
“And then you're in a party that doesn't need short rest or doesn't want to, and you're even less usefull than a fighter with a butter knife...
Yeah terrific darn good mechanic.”
that’s on the DM then. Short rest and hit dice is a specific mechanic created into 5e different from other versions for the reason of giving players more options to heal and such whilst adventuring. If there is a lack of short resting opportunities than it is your DM not using the modules how they are where short rest situations are designed in. Being too lenient in allowing long rests, which can seriously nerf the overall challenge of a campaign, or your party members being selfish or stubborn or overly cautious. In which case maybe your char doesn’t fit in with them to begin with.
”terrific darn good mechanic”
it is. When the DM runs the campaigns as designed. I don’t know what to say on that. I think you might want to try playing more modules, less Homebrew a, or with different DMs to see if there’s a difference. To broaden the sample size for your statement. But by mechanic and design. If the warlocks short rest thing was as useless as you say. Then it makes zero sense to have any hit dice.
This whole argument seems to boil down to Two things: does your DM allow for short rests, and do your fellow players respect the short rest advantage Warlocks have?
In my party, there are two characters that distinctly benefit from short rests: myself as a warlock and the monk. We've used them to recover ki and spells. We've used it after defeating "mini bosses" but where the adventure wouldn't reasonably allow for a full 8 hour rest. For example: a hold in a ship, just outside an immediately dangerous area but where a patrol of bad guys might discover us, etc. There are multiple causes for use of short rest, and both players and DMs need to respect the core features of a given class. That's part of respecting both the players and the game itself. I don't find any particular class OP, except maybe Paladins, but I also think the term OP primarily refers to in combat situations, and combat is only one Aspect of the game. The game isn't supposed to be just that, but Discovery of treasure, negotiation with various and sundry others, clever solutions to problems, etc. Sure, I love the satisfying crunch of my Eldritch blast as it implodes the internal organs of the orc chieftain, but that's only part of the game.
If the only part of the game that matters is combat and the other players and the DM don't respect the utility of the short rest, then I suggest that one is playing in the wrong group and may either a) choose a class that is more friendly to the DM and other's style of play, or b) wish the group well and move on to another. Ultimately, it's a game and it should be fun. If it's not, then why are any of us playing?
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
at first it wasn't about the short rest but rather the spells they have access to
I was complaining that they didn't had a spell to make a home even for "leomund tiny hut" you need to have the book of ancient secret
like you work for a being that is powerfull enough to bend reality to give you powers/spells I feel like at some point you should be able to make a safe space for yourself ESPECIALLY since most of the time your patreon is trying to destroy the world and demiplane is not cutting it