Pros: solid D8 hit dice, good starting class for spell caster due to simple spells that are powerful and only having 4 spell slots to use makes it easy to keep track of your spells, good sub-classes, loads of customization with the spells and invocations, it is both half caster and full caster depending on how you play ie. hexblade, very strong class if played right, all spells starting at level 1 are auto cast at level 5 giving you very powerful ability's at low level, works with 90% of races, having the cantrip eldritch blast and being able to change to property's of said cantrip, you can be a fighting type, healer, religious, necromancer, tank( if good hp) exe., you have good proficiency's, you can have different deity's you can worship besides the ones given but you can keep the features the same
Cons: only 4 spell slots, bad reputation lore wise and usually evil( but you don't have to be evil to play warlock), usually squishy with there lower hp if you roll bad, doesn't last long in a encounter due to only having 4 spell slots( but you can work around that by having a melee weapon with you and going hexblade)
that's about it with why I think warlock is the best class. so please give me your thoughts on this.
Um you are mistaken, rogue is the best class. Rogues have sneaky sneaky stabby-stab, and skills lots of skills, a stick shaking amount of skills. Also for some reason rogues get the ability to be a jerk and everyone is ok with it. Tired of a talking section, just stab the guy and loot his pockets. Some other character having more fun than you, see if you can pick that guard's pockets, and when you fail lie (or kill him, stabby-stab). Not to mention everyone wants you to "scout ahead" which is really code for see if there is any treasure, which you can then lie about.
Joking aside, bonus actions to move, disengage, hide, move mage hand, use objects. and sneak attack are amazing. As is evasion, blind fighting, and uncanny dodge.
Best flavor wise? Probably. Best in combat? Definitely not. Utility? High up there.
I love warlock, if anyone asked me my favorite class, it would be warlock in a heartbeat. It just isn't good though, compared to the 20 something slots other classes get, even multiple 6th level slots, although I think only 2. Maybe they have d8's for health, but as a full caster you shouldn't need that if you have enough slots to stay out of hit range. While I'm all for being able to swing a weapon when I feel like it, they only get simple weapons, unless you take hexblade or pact of the blade, but pact of the blade is a little boring for me, and hexblade... Yea it's pretty cool, but I don't want to use it that often.
Invocations are a really cool concept, and at least half of them are good in execution, but the rest aren't to great. Bestow Curse, using one of your limited spell slots, once per day? I'm not actually looking at the list, I'm just guessing bestow curse is one. One of the coolest things are their subclasses, which seem to be ever so slightly above average ability wise, especially fiend, giving you +10d10 to an attack. Although its d10s, so average damage of 59 i think.
I love the warlock and it’s my favorite class, but it’s not the best by a long shot. It’s pretty weak for a new player because there are SO many options to pick from and it’s easy to build a warlock that isn’t actually fun to play because of all of those options. Other classes are more powerful too if your biggest priority is sheer power.
But ..... for role playing the warlock is a ton of fun! There’s so much potential and you can build 4 or 5 warlock’s who are completely different and who don’t have anything in common! That makes for incredibly fun role playing with a single class and that’s part of why it’s my favorite class to play!
Wizard is probably the “Best” if the measure is pure arcane power. However, the Warlock provides for darker and inherently more interesting characters. A powerful antihero that made a pact with a Lovecraftian Entity and wields Eldritch power in great sword. Who doesn’t love that? Just look at the number of posts in the warlock forum against all others. The age of the warlock is now!
Once again, IN the Warlocks subforum, we're expected to play Devil's Advocate? That doesn't make any sense. And who makes a statement and expects someone else to come and play Devil's Advocate to it anyways?
Besides, of course it's the best, Eldritch Blast ain't no joke.
If you want to play an archer, sure warlocks are up there. if you want to be a spell caster, not so much. They don't have the slots. I'm not sure I would even consider a pure warlock for that reason; one or two levels of bard or sorcerer are personally just about mandatory for me. Maybe I could do a pure hexblade, if I felt like melee.
I like warlocks a lot, but best? I'm not sure I'd go that far.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Warlocks are kinda fun, but are really a sort of floundering generalist after a couple levels. There is a reason you see people dip into warlock or dip out of warlock after some levels. Lets compare some of the various bits of warlock to other classes.
Ranged damage wise, you obviously get eldritch blast, which scales sort of like a fighter using a longbow. The problem here is that you can't apply sharpshooter to it so fighters can out damage you that way. Rangers also likely out damage you since more than half the archtypes are letting them add more damage dice to their hits. Martial bards also get a mention here due to grabbing swift quiver and out damaging you that way.
Melee warlocks are more of a meme than anything. Arcane tricksters or paladins easily outdamage you on that front, and are likely better able to survive being in melee than you as well. Warlocks do have something going for them here though if only from armor of agathys really punishing a lot of small attacks on you in melee and hellish rebuke letting you really get some damage ticks up that way.
Spellcasting utility is mostly a joke with a few odd exceptions. Unlimited disguise self is pretty cool since the only other way to get that is changeling as a race. The fact your running around with only 2 or 3 spell slots sucks hard though since you can literally burn through all of them in a single round of combat. You will also not match the general AOE output of a lot of classes for the same reason, you can only at best throw around 2 fireballs a rest.
Healing is actually an interesting consideration here with celestial warlock, but is something actually worth looking at. Bonus action healing pool is actually pretty great since you can keep people in combat without sacrificing as much as some other dedicated healers might need to spending actions etc. Healing word obviously exists but the celestial warlock functions as a solid off healer who is more about keeping you away from 0 health than actually healing bigger numbers.
So what are warlocks actually good for? You get a lot of tools quickly in the class. and you can get a little of most or everything to make a more versatile character. the BETTER thing they are good for though is multiclassing. Nearly half of all classes use charisma as a requirement and somewhere in their features at base, plus most have one that can use it in an archtype. A few levels of warlock can really help diversify some options for classes that are more focused. Paladins being able to eldritch blast as they approach enemies, giving a swashbuckler rogue some fun magic tricks tied to a secondary stat, magic bards being given a competitive damage option that doesn't cost resources from them. Is that a good thing for class design? Probably not, but it's what we got. Can you play a straight warlock with no multiclassing and still make it good? Yes, but you sort of plateau much quicker than other classes.
TLDR; Warlocks aren't the best at anything, but being able to fulfill a handful of different rolls at once and being able to be the face of a group who lacks a bard or sorcerer gives them enough reason to at least get played, and are one of the best classes to multiclass along with cleric.
Yeah, I do not see Barb/Wizard being remotely good.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Pretty sure it was a sarcasm post, but there is some vague point to it that I could see though it would take awhile to get online. You take one of the more supportive barbarian rage archtypes, spirit guardian or wolf. You are then using most of your 3rd+ level slots on reanimation for skeletons or zombies and you do swarm tactics with them. Advantage to all their hits + you now being pretty durable just off of being a barbarian for a couple levels, maybe taking some toughness feats. I'd say Bard would be better here than wizard, but wizard does get that zombie buff. If you were rolling stats or could deal with the MAD even more, levels into oath breaker paladin to further buff the zombies and let you spend slots during rage would also work. The healing part on there confuses me just cause life transference is one of the worst 3rd level spells ever designed.
I'm currently in a campaign with a 12th level straight warlock. Dude fires three eldritch blast and uses cutting words....that's about it. Our fighter archer (with crossbow expert) is firing four attacks a round with Sharpshooter. Our wizard is destroying and our forge cleric is castrating the enemy as well. Our Warlock finally asked if he could re-roll to another character..
Your warlock's not playing his class to it's fullest extent then. At level 12 he should have quite a bit going on.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Agree with crzyhawk, either you're not playing your character well, or your DM is giving you no opportunity to use your skills appropiately. What's your character, subclass, race, spells, etc? Is it combat heavy? Fishdude, your statement needs context
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May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
Pros: solid D8 hit dice, good starting class for spell caster due to simple spells that are powerful and only having 4 spell slots to use makes it easy to keep track of your spells, good sub-classes, loads of customization with the spells and invocations, it is both half caster and full caster depending on how you play ie. hexblade, very strong class if played right, all spells starting at level 1 are auto cast at level 5 giving you very powerful ability's at low level, works with 90% of races, having the cantrip eldritch blast and being able to change to property's of said cantrip, you can be a fighting type, healer, religious, necromancer, tank( if good hp) exe., you have good proficiency's, you can have different deity's you can worship besides the ones given but you can keep the features the same
Cons: only 4 spell slots, bad reputation lore wise and usually evil( but you don't have to be evil to play warlock), usually squishy with there lower hp if you roll bad, doesn't last long in a encounter due to only having 4 spell slots( but you can work around that by having a melee weapon with you and going hexblade)
that's about it with why I think warlock is the best class. so please give me your thoughts on this.
Not until you're (counts fingers) 9th level.
Also, your results will probably be skewed, since you're asking on a Warlock forum. :)
Um you are mistaken, rogue is the best class. Rogues have sneaky sneaky stabby-stab, and skills lots of skills, a stick shaking amount of skills. Also for some reason rogues get the ability to be a jerk and everyone is ok with it. Tired of a talking section, just stab the guy and loot his pockets. Some other character having more fun than you, see if you can pick that guard's pockets, and when you fail lie (or kill him, stabby-stab). Not to mention everyone wants you to "scout ahead" which is really code for see if there is any treasure, which you can then lie about.
Joking aside, bonus actions to move, disengage, hide, move mage hand, use objects. and sneak attack are amazing. As is evasion, blind fighting, and uncanny dodge.
Best flavor wise? Probably. Best in combat? Definitely not. Utility? High up there.
I love warlock, if anyone asked me my favorite class, it would be warlock in a heartbeat. It just isn't good though, compared to the 20 something slots other classes get, even multiple 6th level slots, although I think only 2. Maybe they have d8's for health, but as a full caster you shouldn't need that if you have enough slots to stay out of hit range. While I'm all for being able to swing a weapon when I feel like it, they only get simple weapons, unless you take hexblade or pact of the blade, but pact of the blade is a little boring for me, and hexblade... Yea it's pretty cool, but I don't want to use it that often.
Invocations are a really cool concept, and at least half of them are good in execution, but the rest aren't to great. Bestow Curse, using one of your limited spell slots, once per day? I'm not actually looking at the list, I'm just guessing bestow curse is one. One of the coolest things are their subclasses, which seem to be ever so slightly above average ability wise, especially fiend, giving you +10d10 to an attack. Although its d10s, so average damage of 59 i think.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
I love the warlock and it’s my favorite class, but it’s not the best by a long shot. It’s pretty weak for a new player because there are SO many options to pick from and it’s easy to build a warlock that isn’t actually fun to play because of all of those options. Other classes are more powerful too if your biggest priority is sheer power.
But ..... for role playing the warlock is a ton of fun! There’s so much potential and you can build 4 or 5 warlock’s who are completely different and who don’t have anything in common! That makes for incredibly fun role playing with a single class and that’s part of why it’s my favorite class to play!
Professional computer geek
Why would we change your mind IN the Warlock subforum?
Playing devil's advocate?
Wizard is probably the “Best” if the measure is pure arcane power. However, the Warlock provides for darker and inherently more interesting characters. A powerful antihero that made a pact with a Lovecraftian Entity and wields Eldritch power in great sword. Who doesn’t love that? Just look at the number of posts in the warlock forum against all others. The age of the warlock is now!
Once again, IN the Warlocks subforum, we're expected to play Devil's Advocate? That doesn't make any sense. And who makes a statement and expects someone else to come and play Devil's Advocate to it anyways?
Besides, of course it's the best, Eldritch Blast ain't no joke.
If you want to play an archer, sure warlocks are up there. if you want to be a spell caster, not so much. They don't have the slots. I'm not sure I would even consider a pure warlock for that reason; one or two levels of bard or sorcerer are personally just about mandatory for me. Maybe I could do a pure hexblade, if I felt like melee.
I like warlocks a lot, but best? I'm not sure I'd go that far.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Warlocks are kinda fun, but are really a sort of floundering generalist after a couple levels. There is a reason you see people dip into warlock or dip out of warlock after some levels. Lets compare some of the various bits of warlock to other classes.
Ranged damage wise, you obviously get eldritch blast, which scales sort of like a fighter using a longbow. The problem here is that you can't apply sharpshooter to it so fighters can out damage you that way. Rangers also likely out damage you since more than half the archtypes are letting them add more damage dice to their hits. Martial bards also get a mention here due to grabbing swift quiver and out damaging you that way.
Melee warlocks are more of a meme than anything. Arcane tricksters or paladins easily outdamage you on that front, and are likely better able to survive being in melee than you as well. Warlocks do have something going for them here though if only from armor of agathys really punishing a lot of small attacks on you in melee and hellish rebuke letting you really get some damage ticks up that way.
Spellcasting utility is mostly a joke with a few odd exceptions. Unlimited disguise self is pretty cool since the only other way to get that is changeling as a race. The fact your running around with only 2 or 3 spell slots sucks hard though since you can literally burn through all of them in a single round of combat. You will also not match the general AOE output of a lot of classes for the same reason, you can only at best throw around 2 fireballs a rest.
Healing is actually an interesting consideration here with celestial warlock, but is something actually worth looking at. Bonus action healing pool is actually pretty great since you can keep people in combat without sacrificing as much as some other dedicated healers might need to spending actions etc. Healing word obviously exists but the celestial warlock functions as a solid off healer who is more about keeping you away from 0 health than actually healing bigger numbers.
So what are warlocks actually good for? You get a lot of tools quickly in the class. and you can get a little of most or everything to make a more versatile character. the BETTER thing they are good for though is multiclassing. Nearly half of all classes use charisma as a requirement and somewhere in their features at base, plus most have one that can use it in an archtype. A few levels of warlock can really help diversify some options for classes that are more focused. Paladins being able to eldritch blast as they approach enemies, giving a swashbuckler rogue some fun magic tricks tied to a secondary stat, magic bards being given a competitive damage option that doesn't cost resources from them. Is that a good thing for class design? Probably not, but it's what we got. Can you play a straight warlock with no multiclassing and still make it good? Yes, but you sort of plateau much quicker than other classes.
TLDR; Warlocks aren't the best at anything, but being able to fulfill a handful of different rolls at once and being able to be the face of a group who lacks a bard or sorcerer gives them enough reason to at least get played, and are one of the best classes to multiclass along with cleric.
Barbarian rage multiclass wizard necromancy/healing
GOD CHARACTER
notice there is no warlock
jack l p
Barbarian/Wizard multiclass is a god character, really? How? That’s both MAD and weak. I’d take Warlock over that build anyday.
Yeah, I do not see Barb/Wizard being remotely good.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah. Can you give us an example of a reasonable build where that even makes sense?
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
Pretty sure it was a sarcasm post, but there is some vague point to it that I could see though it would take awhile to get online. You take one of the more supportive barbarian rage archtypes, spirit guardian or wolf. You are then using most of your 3rd+ level slots on reanimation for skeletons or zombies and you do swarm tactics with them. Advantage to all their hits + you now being pretty durable just off of being a barbarian for a couple levels, maybe taking some toughness feats. I'd say Bard would be better here than wizard, but wizard does get that zombie buff. If you were rolling stats or could deal with the MAD even more, levels into oath breaker paladin to further buff the zombies and let you spend slots during rage would also work. The healing part on there confuses me just cause life transference is one of the worst 3rd level spells ever designed.
I'm currently in a campaign with a 12th level straight warlock. Dude fires three eldritch blast and uses cutting words....that's about it. Our fighter archer (with crossbow expert) is firing four attacks a round with Sharpshooter. Our wizard is destroying and our forge cleric is castrating the enemy as well. Our Warlock finally asked if he could re-roll to another character..
Your warlock's not playing his class to it's fullest extent then. At level 12 he should have quite a bit going on.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Agree with crzyhawk, either you're not playing your character well, or your DM is giving you no opportunity to use your skills appropiately. What's your character, subclass, race, spells, etc? Is it combat heavy? Fishdude, your statement needs context
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
lol...I'm not playing the warlock (i'm the wizard). I didn't lay it out very well in my previous post.