Update on this post: I initially took Banishment, but then I learned that my DM is a huge stickler for the "something distasteful to the target" material component and it was a huge setback at a crucial time. He won't let it be just a gross/holy/painful object, it has to be something that that specific target doesn't like personally. That seems like way too high of a price to use in the heat of battle for only a minute of Banishment. However, I also didn't take Fly. Turns out our Bard had taken Fly and just hadn't used it. So I chose Sickening Radiance (but I'm not thrilled about that choice) and also swapped Hunger of Hadar (which seemed redundant with Evard's Black Tentacles) to Mirror Image to help improve survivability. Spell list now shows Mirror Image, Sickening Radiance, Evard's Black Tentacles, Charm Person, Thunder Step, Hex, Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, and Counterspell, plus Detect Thoughts and Suggestion from the Helm of Telepathy and Scorching Ray from the Circlet of Blasting. Pretty happy with the setup so far, but any other opinions are welcome!
Update on this post: I initially took Banishment, but then I learned that my DM is a huge stickler for the "something distasteful to the target" material component and it was a huge setback at a crucial time. He won't let it be just a gross/holy/painful object, it has to be something that that specific target doesn't like personally. That seems like way too high of a price to use in the heat of battle for only a minute of Banishment. However, I also didn't take Fly. Turns out our Bard had taken Fly and just hadn't used it. So I chose Sickening Radiance (but I'm not thrilled about that choice) and also swapped Hunger of Hadar (which seemed redundant with Evard's Black Tentacles) to Mirror Image to help improve survivability. Spell list now shows Mirror Image, Sickening Radiance, Evard's Black Tentacles, Charm Person, Thunder Step, Hex, Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, and Counterspell, plus Detect Thoughts and Suggestion from the Helm of Telepathy and Scorching Ray from the Circlet of Blasting. Pretty happy with the setup so far, but any other opinions are welcome!
Your DM is being a turd and he is incorrect. It specifically does not have a component cost which means it would be covered by either a component pouch or spell focus. So basically your character is more or less already guaranteed to have it. So if you are using a spell focus, then you can Banish. If you are using components, you should take a few minutes to think about what would be distasteful to each type of extraplanar creature but at the end of the day, RAW, you are totally covered to cast this. I would argue this is a bread and butter spell for Warlocks so you should definitely have it and cast often. Taking the 2 creatures out of an encounter for a minute is HUGE not to mention the permanent banishment potential.
Update on this post: I initially took Banishment, but then I learned that my DM is a huge stickler for the "something distasteful to the target" material component and it was a huge setback at a crucial time. He won't let it be just a gross/holy/painful object, it has to be something that that specific target doesn't like personally. That seems like way too high of a price to use in the heat of battle for only a minute of Banishment. However, I also didn't take Fly.
(Snip)
Your DM is being a turd and he is incorrect. It specifically does not have a component cost which means it would be covered by either a component pouch or spell focus. So basically your character is more or less already guaranteed to have it. So if you are using a spell focus, then you can Banish. If you are using components, you should take a few minutes to think about what would be distasteful to each type of extraplanar creature but at the end of the day, RAW, you are totally covered to cast this. I would argue this is a bread and butter spell for Warlocks so you should definitely have it and cast often. Taking the 2 creatures out of an encounter for a minute is HUGE not to mention the permanent banishment potential.
Second this. DM is being too literal. When you're an arcane caster, you don't just research the spell casting or learn it from a patron. You research its uses and applications, much like any other class in real life. It's like learning to drive a car. First you learn how to accelerate, break, steer and park (first level stuff). Then you learn more about your car's workings, specific to year, make and model. By the time you're getting to banishment, you're learning mechanics. You would learn the basics of what makes something distasteful to a monster / demon / whatever. That's why when you learn the spell and have the arcane focus or the component pouch, you generally have a good sense of what's necessary for something to be distasteful. You'd likely carry a few things like garlic for vampires, silver for werewolves, iron fillings for Fey, maybe some basic holy item for demons and devils, etc. Otherwise, the spell is totally nerfed and useless.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
That was going to be my argument as well, but it was in the midst of the most heated battle we had yet fought and I didn't want to spend an hour pleading my case. I will go back and try to appeal to him before our next session. My DM is a first timer, so I understand where the confusion is coming from. Thanks for the input!
Note, occasionally a DM will simply hate some classes, or some subclasses, or even some spells or abilities. You might want to ask if he thinks Banishment is too strong - just as an afterthought, don't make a big deal of it. It might be subconscious.
If that's the case, I totally understand his point. If I were the DM, I would be upset if two of my meanest creatures in an encounter get banished every time. I know there are ways to get around this, but if every enemy has an amulet of planar anchoring or whatever it's called, then it starts to feel lame. To be honest, if he just doesn't like Banishment and doesn't want it at the table I'm fine with it. I'm just not sure what to take in it's stead, nothing else really jumps out at me until 9th level and then my whole spellbook will be rewritten haha
If that's the case, I totally understand his point. If I were the DM, I would be upset if two of my meanest creatures in an encounter get banished every time. I know there are ways to get around this, but if every enemy has an amulet of planar anchoring or whatever it's called, then it starts to feel lame. To be honest, if he just doesn't like Banishment and doesn't want it at the table I'm fine with it. I'm just not sure what to take in it's stead, nothing else really jumps out at me until 9th level and then my whole spellbook will be rewritten haha
I would consider that to be a failure of adventure and combat design. Banishment has two flaws: it's a charisma save and it requires concentration. If banishment is working constantly, then the DM response should be to utilize creatures with high charisma and have defenders who are particularly good at disrupting spellcasters. Think of it like having skirmishers in advance of the main formation of an army, they were designed to harass the enemy and break the discipline of the formation ahead of primary combat. The DM would be wise to have some enemies equipped with countercharm or are extremely quick and good at disrupting spellcasters. In fact, any reasonably intelligent opponent would know their own weaknesses and would have retainers or lackeys to address that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Both are really good spells. My warlock has both. No decisions necessary.
Update on this post: I initially took Banishment, but then I learned that my DM is a huge stickler for the "something distasteful to the target" material component and it was a huge setback at a crucial time. He won't let it be just a gross/holy/painful object, it has to be something that that specific target doesn't like personally. That seems like way too high of a price to use in the heat of battle for only a minute of Banishment. However, I also didn't take Fly. Turns out our Bard had taken Fly and just hadn't used it. So I chose Sickening Radiance (but I'm not thrilled about that choice) and also swapped Hunger of Hadar (which seemed redundant with Evard's Black Tentacles) to Mirror Image to help improve survivability. Spell list now shows Mirror Image, Sickening Radiance, Evard's Black Tentacles, Charm Person, Thunder Step, Hex, Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, and Counterspell, plus Detect Thoughts and Suggestion from the Helm of Telepathy and Scorching Ray from the Circlet of Blasting. Pretty happy with the setup so far, but any other opinions are welcome!
Your DM is being a turd and he is incorrect. It specifically does not have a component cost which means it would be covered by either a component pouch or spell focus. So basically your character is more or less already guaranteed to have it. So if you are using a spell focus, then you can Banish. If you are using components, you should take a few minutes to think about what would be distasteful to each type of extraplanar creature but at the end of the day, RAW, you are totally covered to cast this. I would argue this is a bread and butter spell for Warlocks so you should definitely have it and cast often. Taking the 2 creatures out of an encounter for a minute is HUGE not to mention the permanent banishment potential.
Second this. DM is being too literal. When you're an arcane caster, you don't just research the spell casting or learn it from a patron. You research its uses and applications, much like any other class in real life. It's like learning to drive a car. First you learn how to accelerate, break, steer and park (first level stuff). Then you learn more about your car's workings, specific to year, make and model. By the time you're getting to banishment, you're learning mechanics. You would learn the basics of what makes something distasteful to a monster / demon / whatever. That's why when you learn the spell and have the arcane focus or the component pouch, you generally have a good sense of what's necessary for something to be distasteful. You'd likely carry a few things like garlic for vampires, silver for werewolves, iron fillings for Fey, maybe some basic holy item for demons and devils, etc. Otherwise, the spell is totally nerfed and useless.
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
That was going to be my argument as well, but it was in the midst of the most heated battle we had yet fought and I didn't want to spend an hour pleading my case. I will go back and try to appeal to him before our next session. My DM is a first timer, so I understand where the confusion is coming from. Thanks for the input!
Note, occasionally a DM will simply hate some classes, or some subclasses, or even some spells or abilities. You might want to ask if he thinks Banishment is too strong - just as an afterthought, don't make a big deal of it. It might be subconscious.
If that's the case, I totally understand his point. If I were the DM, I would be upset if two of my meanest creatures in an encounter get banished every time. I know there are ways to get around this, but if every enemy has an amulet of planar anchoring or whatever it's called, then it starts to feel lame. To be honest, if he just doesn't like Banishment and doesn't want it at the table I'm fine with it. I'm just not sure what to take in it's stead, nothing else really jumps out at me until 9th level and then my whole spellbook will be rewritten haha
I would consider that to be a failure of adventure and combat design. Banishment has two flaws: it's a charisma save and it requires concentration. If banishment is working constantly, then the DM response should be to utilize creatures with high charisma and have defenders who are particularly good at disrupting spellcasters. Think of it like having skirmishers in advance of the main formation of an army, they were designed to harass the enemy and break the discipline of the formation ahead of primary combat. The DM would be wise to have some enemies equipped with countercharm or are extremely quick and good at disrupting spellcasters. In fact, any reasonably intelligent opponent would know their own weaknesses and would have retainers or lackeys to address that.
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom