Right now playing in a campaign where I am playing as a Hexblade, I was wondering is it a good idea for me to go full melee?
I have in the past seen people talking about how Agonizing Blast is great for being the invocation for damage. I guess my question is should I pass on this in order to go full melee as soon as possible?
Party Comp being: Sorcerer (Wild), Monk (Open Hand), Wizard (Conjuration), Ranger (Unsure), and Warlock (Hexblade, Me)
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You can't really, since the melee options for Warlock are tied to your levels and Pact of the Blade which you can't get till level 3.
A Hexblade is a Warlock who can fight in melee. Accent on being a Warlock.
Warlocks are, for better or worse, defined by their ability to spam cantrip damage with Eldritch Blast.
A Hexblade gives you some melee ability, but you can build the two things side by side.
At level 2 take Agonizing Blast. That's all you need to maximize your EB damage.
At level 3 go Pact of the Blade, and take the Improved Pact Weapon invocation (XGE).
Level 4 improve your Charisma, which will help both your ranged and melee damage thanks to Hex Warrior.
Level 5 take the Thirsting Blade invocation (PHB) which will give you an extra attack with your pact weapon (and through the Hex Warrior and IPW abilities you'll have extra attacks with all your summoned weapons).
Level 7 take Eldritch Smite (XGE) this will allow you to burn Warlock spell slots to cause extra damage.
In the first couple of levels your eldritch blast should out damage any weapon damage you do as you only get simple weapons. 1d10 vs 1d6+dex/str mod. The other things to take into consideration are low ac and low hit points, so you are best off keeping out of melee. Once you get the Hexblade pact at lvl 3 though you get better armour and can chose a better weapon if you take improved pact weapon. But without shenanigans, your EB will still shine. My Hexblade at lvl 5 (rogue 1 / lock 4) effectively does 2d10+10 with his EB but when in melee he does 1d10+6 (Elven warblade) + 1d6 Hex + 1d6 sneak +1d8 green-flame blade +1d8+5 to a secondary target. EB still has some great advantages and I use it a lot as we don't have a healer in the party, but the damage is a lot less.
Once you get the Hexblade pact at lvl 3 though you get better armour and can chose a better weapon if you take improved pact weapon.
There is no Hexblade Pact at level three that gives "better armour". The Hexblade Patron at level one gives the armor and weapon proficiencies.
If you want to be a Warlock that melees, Hexblade Patron and Blade Pact are good choices; but then so is Hexblade Patron with Tome Pact, Shillelagh, and a Blade cantrip, and you strengthen more than just your melee abilities.
If you want to do very high DPR as a Warlock, you can do this - but be prepared to spend a huge portion of your ASI/Feat and Invocation budget on supporting melee prowess.
Right now playing in a campaign where I am playing as a Hexblade, I was wondering is it a good idea for me to go full melee?
I have in the past seen people talking about how Agonizing Blast is great for being the invocation for damage. I guess my question is should I pass on this in order to go full melee as soon as possible?
Party Comp being: Sorcerer (Wild), Monk (Open Hand), Wizard (Conjuration), Ranger (Unsure), and Warlock (Hexblade, Me)
Here's a better question: do you WANT to go full melee?
Yes, Warlocks are typically centered around Eldritch Blast. But a warlock does NOT have to be centered around that one spell, any more than a bard has to be centered around playing a musical instrument, or a rogue has to be centered around sneaking. You are free to build your warlock as you like, provided you accept the trade-offs that that may incur.
Personally, if your Ranger decided to go with a ranged attack focus, I'd switch to melee... only relying on the monk for melee damage is going to be less-than-ideal. But again, it's up to you. If you feel going melee is better, then as a Hexblade, you have plenty of options. Pact of the Blade, several melee-supporting invocations, even the nasty Devil's-Sight-plus-Darkness combo, which could make you a melee nightmare (although it could also interfere with your teammate's combat.)
In my personal experience, Eldritch Blast is really good for DPR while Pactblade makes for good burst damage. Ofc it all depends on your build, but being able to Smite and almost always knock the enemy prone while doing so shortens the combat by a lot. Not to mention smiting on a critical, which you're more likely to get on a cursed enemy.
On the other hand, Eldritch Blast offers a relatively safe way to keep your DPR high from a pretty great distance.
3. Pact of the Blade, replace invocation with Improved Pact Weapon
4. Elven Accuracy (+1 Charisma) feat
5. Thirsting Blade invocation
7. Eldritch Smite
8. Great Weapon Mastery feat
12. Charisma +2, Lifedrinker invocation
Because the Hex Warrior ability applies to every weapon summoned with Pact of the Blade, and Improved Pact Weapon makes all such weapons +1 magical weapons, you can create +1 magical greatswords that can be used with Great Weapon Mastery and Eldritch Smite.
Hah, I got exited reading this. But then I read up on it and discovered that this can't be done if going for a Cha based Warlock.
"Because the Hex Warrior ability applies to every weapon summoned with Pact of the Blade, and Improved Pact Weapon makes all such weapons +1 magical weapons, you can create +1 magical greatswords that can be used with Great Weapon Mastery and Eldritch Smite"
You can create a greatsword and be able to use it, yes. But you'll not get the Cha ability mod for att and dam!
Under the Hex Warrior description, it says "you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property"
"When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. This benefit lasts until you finish a long rest. If you later gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon’s type."
I see what your getting at but it would seem my party is really wanting me to be a front line for them due to them all wanting to be ranged.
I was thinking would the knock-back or pulling invocations for eldritch blast to aid in pealing for my back-line or should I still go for the damage up on the eldritch blast over keeping my back line safe?
It's fine to go full melee and to not learn Eldritch Blast. My Celestial Warlock does not know Eldritch Blast.
As a Warlock, you can learn Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade. Or you can go with Pact of the Blade and take Thirsting Blade as your invocation at level 5. You should do one of these two. It's probably not wise to do both, because you can't use Extra Attack and use Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade - you would have to choose one or the other each round. It's perfectly fine doing a melee only Hexblade Warlock (or even a melee only Celestial Warlock like mine), especially if your party wants you to hold the front line.
If you're doing a front line character, then you can take the Tomb of Levistus invocation at level 5 as well (in addition to Thirsting Blade because you can swap out one invocation every time you gain a level in Warlock), and this is a fantastic invocation for a front line character. Before level 5, the Fiendish Vigor invocation is extremely powerful for a front line Warlock, and it's still decent for a few levels after level 5. If you don't choose Eldritch Blast and you don't choose any of the invocations associated with Eldritch Blast, this really frees you up to choose some of the other wonderful powerful invocations, and to have one more cantrip to choose (which is quite useful if you don't choose Pact of the Tome).
I think it's a really bad idea to take Eldritch Blast and some of the invocations boosting Eldritch Blast, and then to also take Thirsting Blade or Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade. At this point, you're just taking up too many cantrips and invocations for damage dealing. You really need to choose one or the other, and if you're doing a front line combatant, the choice has to be Thirsting Blade, Green Flame Blade, or Booming Blade.
I see what your getting at but it would seem my party is really wanting me to be a front line for them due to them all wanting to be ranged.
I was thinking would the knock-back or pulling invocations for eldritch blast to aid in pealing for my back-line or should I still go for the damage up on the eldritch blast over keeping my back line safe?
Tell them no. It isn't feasible to have 4 ranged characters hide behind a single melee character and hope he/she can 'hold the line'. That's simply asking for trouble. The monk and ranger simply have to step up and be melee. Don't really understand why an open hand monk would go ranged anyway, they would be better off going kensai and longbow. If your DM is playing the mobs appropriately they will simply surround and bypass you and go for the squishies at the back. I certainly would. You can use the environment and spells to limit their options but you won't be that lucky in every fight.
If you went sword and board you could have breastplate plus shield and with +2 from Dex have an 18AC, not right away, but by 5th level I'm sure it's doable. And with GFB, at 5th level, you could do 1d8+CHA (longsword)+1d8 (GFB) plus 1d8+CHA (GFB) to second target, which might be better than Extra Attack if you are dealing with multiple enemies on the front line. And Eldritch Smite on top of that, especially if you crit. Plus it scales up at 11th and 17th level for additional 1d8's. But if you are going for two handed pact weapon maybe the extra attack would be worth it, I'm not sure, not good with numbers.
I don't see why you couldn't go full melee, unless it's something you don't want to do.
In the first couple of levels your eldritch blast should out damage any weapon damage you do as you only get simple weapons. 1d10 vs 1d6+dex/str mod. The other things to take into consideration are low ac and low hit points, so you are best off keeping out of melee. Once you get the Hexblade pact at lvl 3 though you get better armour and can chose a better weapon if you take improved pact weapon. But without shenanigans, your EB will still shine. My Hexblade at lvl 5 (rogue 1 / lock 4) effectively does 2d10+10 with his EB but when in melee he does 1d10+6 (Elven warblade) + 1d6 Hex + 1d6 sneak +1d8 green-flame blade +1d8+5 to a secondary target. EB still has some great advantages and I use it a lot as we don't have a healer in the party, but the damage is a lot less.
Hexblades get martial weapons. So, you could use a versatile weapon in both hands such as a longsword, battleaxe or warhammer and get D10+mod + hex, using charisma at level 1. It's exactly equivalent in damage to EB until later levels, assuming you take thirsting blade. The only thing you lose over the ranged version is in AC because you can't use a shield.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I see what your getting at but it would seem my party is really wanting me to be a front line for them due to them all wanting to be ranged.
I was thinking would the knock-back or pulling invocations for eldritch blast to aid in pealing for my back-line or should I still go for the damage up on the eldritch blast over keeping my back line safe?
Definitely do not take this one for the team....as a warlock. Can you function as a pure melee warlock? Yes! Can you soak up all the attacks that will be coming at the party? lol not a chance.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
With medium armor and shield your best AC with mundane equipment is 19 with half-plate and shield. You can bump that to 20 with medium armor mastery and 16 dexterity.
As a D8 HP class you have fair HP, but not as much as a dedicated melee class like Fighter, Paladin, or Barbarian.
Unlike Paladin and Fighter you have no way to heal yourself, and unlike Barbarian you're not resistant to everything.
You can tank a little bit, but you're not a dedicated tank. You're a DPS unit that can (burning all your spell slots with Eldritch Smite) outspike even Paladin damage for a single round.
A party of Warlock or similar quasi-tanks like Clerics will be okay, but you can't do it all by yourself.
With medium armor and shield proficiency your best AC with mundane equipment is 19 with half-plate and shield.
As a D8 class you have reasonable HP, though not as much as a D10 or D12 class.
You don't have a means of healing yourself like Fighters and Paladins do, or resist damage the way Barbarians do.
The Warlock Hexblade is a DPS unit that can (if you burn all your spell slots on Eldritch Smite) outspike even Paladins for one brief glorious moment.
If you're in a party of D8 classes like Cleric and Warlocks, then you can be one of the frontline units. You can't be the only frontline unit. If the Ranger (D10) and Monk (D8) were to chip in and help, and one of the other classes had some healing ability (tell the Wild Sorcerer to go Divine Soul) then you could hold the line.
You don't have a means of healing yourself like Fighters and Paladins do, or resist damage the way Barbarians do.
Well, technically the Hexblade can heal themself once per short rest when dropping their cursed target to 0 HP. Apart from that, Warlock's usual way of beefing up is through temporary HP, like through Armor of Agathys.However, using spell slots for temporary HP will then again hurt your spike damage, meaning the fight will take longer and that goes back to the issue of tanking.
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Right now playing in a campaign where I am playing as a Hexblade, I was wondering is it a good idea for me to go full melee?
I have in the past seen people talking about how Agonizing Blast is great for being the invocation for damage. I guess my question is should I pass on this in order to go full melee as soon as possible?
Party Comp being: Sorcerer (Wild), Monk (Open Hand), Wizard (Conjuration), Ranger (Unsure), and Warlock (Hexblade, Me)
You can't really, since the melee options for Warlock are tied to your levels and Pact of the Blade which you can't get till level 3.
A Hexblade is a Warlock who can fight in melee. Accent on being a Warlock.
Warlocks are, for better or worse, defined by their ability to spam cantrip damage with Eldritch Blast.
A Hexblade gives you some melee ability, but you can build the two things side by side.
At level 2 take Agonizing Blast. That's all you need to maximize your EB damage.
At level 3 go Pact of the Blade, and take the Improved Pact Weapon invocation (XGE).
Level 4 improve your Charisma, which will help both your ranged and melee damage thanks to Hex Warrior.
Level 5 take the Thirsting Blade invocation (PHB) which will give you an extra attack with your pact weapon (and through the Hex Warrior and IPW abilities you'll have extra attacks with all your summoned weapons).
Level 7 take Eldritch Smite (XGE) this will allow you to burn Warlock spell slots to cause extra damage.
Level 8 maximize your Charisma.
Level 12 take Lifedrinker (PHB).
Thinking about it I'd probably take the first level as Sorcerer (pick your preferred poison) then go Hexblade from level 2 onwards.
If you take Divine Soul you can grab Guidance from the Cleric list, and that's a great cantrip.
In the first couple of levels your eldritch blast should out damage any weapon damage you do as you only get simple weapons. 1d10 vs 1d6+dex/str mod. The other things to take into consideration are low ac and low hit points, so you are best off keeping out of melee. Once you get the Hexblade pact at lvl 3 though you get better armour and can chose a better weapon if you take improved pact weapon. But without shenanigans, your EB will still shine. My Hexblade at lvl 5 (rogue 1 / lock 4) effectively does 2d10+10 with his EB but when in melee he does 1d10+6 (Elven warblade) + 1d6 Hex + 1d6 sneak +1d8 green-flame blade +1d8+5 to a secondary target. EB still has some great advantages and I use it a lot as we don't have a healer in the party, but the damage is a lot less.
There is no Hexblade Pact at level three that gives "better armour". The Hexblade Patron at level one gives the armor and weapon proficiencies.
If you want to be a Warlock that melees, Hexblade Patron and Blade Pact are good choices; but then so is Hexblade Patron with Tome Pact, Shillelagh, and a Blade cantrip, and you strengthen more than just your melee abilities.
If you want to do very high DPR as a Warlock, you can do this - but be prepared to spend a huge portion of your ASI/Feat and Invocation budget on supporting melee prowess.
Here's a better question: do you WANT to go full melee?
Yes, Warlocks are typically centered around Eldritch Blast. But a warlock does NOT have to be centered around that one spell, any more than a bard has to be centered around playing a musical instrument, or a rogue has to be centered around sneaking. You are free to build your warlock as you like, provided you accept the trade-offs that that may incur.
Personally, if your Ranger decided to go with a ranged attack focus, I'd switch to melee... only relying on the monk for melee damage is going to be less-than-ideal. But again, it's up to you. If you feel going melee is better, then as a Hexblade, you have plenty of options. Pact of the Blade, several melee-supporting invocations, even the nasty Devil's-Sight-plus-Darkness combo, which could make you a melee nightmare (although it could also interfere with your teammate's combat.)
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In my personal experience, Eldritch Blast is really good for DPR while Pactblade makes for good burst damage.
Ofc it all depends on your build, but being able to Smite and almost always knock the enemy prone while doing so shortens the combat by a lot.
Not to mention smiting on a critical, which you're more likely to get on a cursed enemy.
On the other hand, Eldritch Blast offers a relatively safe way to keep your DPR high from a pretty great distance.
How I would build a Hexblade off of the Half-Elf chassis.
Half-Elf, starting stats, 8/16/14/10/10/17
1. Hexblade Warlock, starting spells Eldritch Blast, Mage Hand, Armor of Agathys, Hex
2. Agonizing Blast, some other invocation
3. Pact of the Blade, replace invocation with Improved Pact Weapon
4. Elven Accuracy (+1 Charisma) feat
5. Thirsting Blade invocation
7. Eldritch Smite
8. Great Weapon Mastery feat
12. Charisma +2, Lifedrinker invocation
Because the Hex Warrior ability applies to every weapon summoned with Pact of the Blade, and Improved Pact Weapon makes all such weapons +1 magical weapons, you can create +1 magical greatswords that can be used with Great Weapon Mastery and Eldritch Smite.
Hah, I got exited reading this. But then I read up on it and discovered that this can't be done if going for a Cha based Warlock.
"Because the Hex Warrior ability applies to every weapon summoned with Pact of the Blade, and Improved Pact Weapon makes all such weapons +1 magical weapons, you can create +1 magical greatswords that can be used with Great Weapon Mastery and Eldritch Smite"
You can create a greatsword and be able to use it, yes. But you'll not get the Cha ability mod for att and dam!
Under the Hex Warrior description, it says "you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property"
...dammit 😅
Read a bit further.
"When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. This benefit lasts until you finish a long rest. If you later gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon’s type."
Because you're using Charisma for your attacks you also gain the benefit from Elven Accuracy to re-roll one of the dice when you have advantage.
Until it runs out of spell slots, at level 7 it can actually outdamage the Paladin.
Of course it runs out of spell slots faster.
I see what your getting at but it would seem my party is really wanting me to be a front line for them due to them all wanting to be ranged.
I was thinking would the knock-back or pulling invocations for eldritch blast to aid in pealing for my back-line or should I still go for the damage up on the eldritch blast over keeping my back line safe?
It's fine to go full melee and to not learn Eldritch Blast. My Celestial Warlock does not know Eldritch Blast.
As a Warlock, you can learn Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade. Or you can go with Pact of the Blade and take Thirsting Blade as your invocation at level 5. You should do one of these two. It's probably not wise to do both, because you can't use Extra Attack and use Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade - you would have to choose one or the other each round. It's perfectly fine doing a melee only Hexblade Warlock (or even a melee only Celestial Warlock like mine), especially if your party wants you to hold the front line.
If you're doing a front line character, then you can take the Tomb of Levistus invocation at level 5 as well (in addition to Thirsting Blade because you can swap out one invocation every time you gain a level in Warlock), and this is a fantastic invocation for a front line character. Before level 5, the Fiendish Vigor invocation is extremely powerful for a front line Warlock, and it's still decent for a few levels after level 5. If you don't choose Eldritch Blast and you don't choose any of the invocations associated with Eldritch Blast, this really frees you up to choose some of the other wonderful powerful invocations, and to have one more cantrip to choose (which is quite useful if you don't choose Pact of the Tome).
I think it's a really bad idea to take Eldritch Blast and some of the invocations boosting Eldritch Blast, and then to also take Thirsting Blade or Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade. At this point, you're just taking up too many cantrips and invocations for damage dealing. You really need to choose one or the other, and if you're doing a front line combatant, the choice has to be Thirsting Blade, Green Flame Blade, or Booming Blade.
Tell them no. It isn't feasible to have 4 ranged characters hide behind a single melee character and hope he/she can 'hold the line'. That's simply asking for trouble. The monk and ranger simply have to step up and be melee. Don't really understand why an open hand monk would go ranged anyway, they would be better off going kensai and longbow. If your DM is playing the mobs appropriately they will simply surround and bypass you and go for the squishies at the back. I certainly would. You can use the environment and spells to limit their options but you won't be that lucky in every fight.
If you went sword and board you could have breastplate plus shield and with +2 from Dex have an 18AC, not right away, but by 5th level I'm sure it's doable. And with GFB, at 5th level, you could do 1d8+CHA (longsword)+1d8 (GFB) plus 1d8+CHA (GFB) to second target, which might be better than Extra Attack if you are dealing with multiple enemies on the front line. And Eldritch Smite on top of that, especially if you crit. Plus it scales up at 11th and 17th level for additional 1d8's. But if you are going for two handed pact weapon maybe the extra attack would be worth it, I'm not sure, not good with numbers.
I don't see why you couldn't go full melee, unless it's something you don't want to do.
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Hexblades get martial weapons. So, you could use a versatile weapon in both hands such as a longsword, battleaxe or warhammer and get D10+mod + hex, using charisma at level 1. It's exactly equivalent in damage to EB until later levels, assuming you take thirsting blade. The only thing you lose over the ranged version is in AC because you can't use a shield.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Definitely do not take this one for the team....as a warlock. Can you function as a pure melee warlock? Yes! Can you soak up all the attacks that will be coming at the party? lol not a chance.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
With medium armor and shield your best AC with mundane equipment is 19 with half-plate and shield. You can bump that to 20 with medium armor mastery and 16 dexterity.
As a D8 HP class you have fair HP, but not as much as a dedicated melee class like Fighter, Paladin, or Barbarian.
Unlike Paladin and Fighter you have no way to heal yourself, and unlike Barbarian you're not resistant to everything.
You can tank a little bit, but you're not a dedicated tank. You're a DPS unit that can (burning all your spell slots with Eldritch Smite) outspike even Paladin damage for a single round.
A party of Warlock or similar quasi-tanks like Clerics will be okay, but you can't do it all by yourself.
With medium armor and shield proficiency your best AC with mundane equipment is 19 with half-plate and shield.
As a D8 class you have reasonable HP, though not as much as a D10 or D12 class.
You don't have a means of healing yourself like Fighters and Paladins do, or resist damage the way Barbarians do.
The Warlock Hexblade is a DPS unit that can (if you burn all your spell slots on Eldritch Smite) outspike even Paladins for one brief glorious moment.
If you're in a party of D8 classes like Cleric and Warlocks, then you can be one of the frontline units. You can't be the only frontline unit. If the Ranger (D10) and Monk (D8) were to chip in and help, and one of the other classes had some healing ability (tell the Wild Sorcerer to go Divine Soul) then you could hold the line.
Well, technically the Hexblade can heal themself once per short rest when dropping their cursed target to 0 HP.
Apart from that, Warlock's usual way of beefing up is through temporary HP, like through Armor of Agathys.However, using spell slots for temporary HP will then again hurt your spike damage, meaning the fight will take longer and that goes back to the issue of tanking.