If your party has just you, a Barbarian, and a Rogue, then Sacred Flame is a good choice for you because it gives you a spell that makes the enemy do a dex save instead of you doing an attack roll. Generally, it's better to do an attack roll than to make the enemy do a save, but it can be hard for your party to not have anyone setup to do well against an opponent with a high AC. Mechanically, it's probably best to still have a cantrip with an attack roll. But if you want your PC to think that he's a Cleric, it actually makes sense to not have any cantrips with an attack roll because Clerics don't get cantrips with attack rolls. Choosing Toll the Dead is a great choice thematically, and mechanically it's nice to have a different type of damage and a different type of saving throw.
I think your character will be just fine with those two damaging cantrips, and it's a great fit thematically for your Warlock that thinks he is a Cleric to use those two cantrips as his go-to cantrips in combat.
Because your character wouldn't have any attack cantrips until level 4, you're in the unique situation where your Warlock won't need to use the Hex spell, so you can use your concentration for something else. You'll get to do the unique Warlock that doesn't use his concentration for Hex. If you take Chill Touch at level 4, that's a decent choice. It's a good attack cantrip. But it's a type of damage you already have from Toll the Dead, and it's not nearly as powerful as Eldritch Blast. It does give you some reason to use Hex.
Flaming Sphere is a pretty good option for your concentration. Because you only have two spell slots, you really want to focus on learning spells that require concentration, so that you get more use out of your two spell slots. Hold Person is also a great choice, especially with your party, and unlike Flaming Sphere, it is a Cleric spell, and a spell that Clerics are well known for using. If you want your character to be under the impression that he's a Cleric, you have to be careful about him learning too many spells that Clerics don't get to learn. That might be a reason to avoid using the spell Hex with him.
By the time you get to level 4, you'll probably know whether or not you are really itching to have an attack cantrip, or if you're content to just use Sacred Flame and Toll the Dead most of the time.
Yes, that's what I was thinking when I initially made the post. Probably just use Sacred Flame, Toll the Dead, and other cantrips first early level and then maybe later on for my last cantrip or if a character moment happens where my DM gives my character a revelation on their patron then I could take the Eldritch Blast and Hex if I needed to.
As someone who's presently playing a celestial warlock, I can say I'd be mighty disappointed if I was stuck with sacred flame and toll the dead as my options.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
As someone who's presently playing a celestial warlock, I can say I'd be mighty disappointed if I was stuck with sacred flame and toll the dead as my options.
Mechanically, Hex + Eldritch Blast is far far more powerful than Cleric cantrips. Clerics are known for having incredibly weak cantrip options, which they make up for with Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians and Divine Strike or Potent Spellcasting. If he wants to play an optimized character, he should skip the "I think I'm a Cleric" line and embrace Hex + Eldritch Blast. But if he wants to stick with the "I think I'm a Cleric" line, then he has to be careful about learning too many things that Clerics can't do.
Every D&D group has a different culture, and that culture determines how willing they are to have players make suboptimal builds and to do suboptimal things during combat. Some are very much into min-maxing and love the strategy aspect of combat and treat it as a puzzle to figure out. But other groups find the role playing aspect more fun and find it entertaining to have characters with flaws. Caring about min-maxing and loving the strategy aspect of combat doesn't stop you from having a very interesting character for role playing purposes, and to still have a lot of fun with the role playing aspect. But caring about min-maxing would rule out some types of characters, such as a Celestial Warlock that thinks he's a Cleric, and chooses his abilities in a way that would allow his player to maintain that delusion. It's a big stretch to make because your character has to ignore stuff like the spell slot mechanics of a Warlock being so different, of the invocations being so different, and of his Warlock not being able to use a shield the way nearly every Cleric does. And not having access to something of the well known Cleric spells like Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians. And not being able to change out his prepared spells each day. And so many other things like that. So it's a pretty big stretch. He should most likely make intelligence his dump stat if he's going to try to make this character realistic. Because even with a 10 in intelligence, a Celestial Warlock should be able to figure out that he's not a Cleric.
there's a difference between making a suboptimal choice and making a choice that is likely to be unfun. I cannot foresee having a lot of fun, with a non blade pact, celestial warlock. I cast a lot of sacred flame on my lock as it is, and I know precisely what I am missing out on when I do so. I ignored the first post in the thread when I saw it as soon as I saw "I don't like EB" because I had nothing constructive to say at that point.
A relying on sacred flame and toll the dead is going to be worse than a cleric (even one that chooses to not use SW/SG) and worse than a warlock. EB is what DEFINES a warlock, and if you choose to not use it, you've got to have a pretty good idea as to what you're going to be left with. Non EB celestial locks that I would /consider/ are a ranged melee bladelock with a bow. I /might/ consider a drow melee lock with SCAG cantrips and a rapier, but that's iffy. The other non EB warlock I might consider is a tomelock with Shillelagh on my staff and the SCAG cantrips. Those are worse than an EB spammer, but they are close enough to not be awful.
Casting sacred flame on my celestial warlock feels bad, and it's only a matter of time before the OP noticed how much far behind /everyone else/ he really is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'm having a lot of fun with a Celestial Warlock with Pact of the Chain for the Gift of the Ever-Living Ones invocation and relying on Green Flame Blade. For a while I was using it along with Shadow Blade, but now I'm doing it with a Flame Tongue Shortsword and casting Shadow of Moil.
I'm not pact of the blade, and I don't know Hex or Eldritch Blast, but it's still a lot of fun.
Edit: I started off with 1 level in Fighter to give proficiency in Constitution Saves, a Second Wind self heal every short rest, proficiency with shields, +1AC when wearing armor - with 18 dexterity, I'm fine using Studded Leather, and proficiency with martial weapons including short swords (although this proficiency also could have been obtained by being an Elf instead of a Half-Elf). My character is a Fighter 1 Warlock 7 now.
The reason I would go blade pact is for thirsting blade, improved pact weapon and eldritch smite. I'm pretty sure this character would crap on a EB spammer, but I have not run the numbers to be certain. With haste running, it gets 3 attacks/round with a longbow, and it can smite with the second spell slot. If the target is the cursed, it crits on a 19 or 20 (to drop the smite), and if I can figure out how to get advantage, it has elven accuracy to give me three chances to crit. I'd probably be better off mathematically with sharpshooter, but I hate missing. It's still a work in progress, so I haven't fleshed out all the details yet.
A celestial archer would be good too, but I'd have to push dex over charisma, and would be less crit-fishy That's not a huge problem, this hexblade version was mostly to see what was possible rather than something I'd want to play.
For a more "legal" version (to be AL version I'd have to go standard half-elf) celestial which might be of interest to the OP since he wants non-standard. I'm taking improved pact weapon ASAP, and pact of the blade at level 3. I'd push my dex and ignore my charisma. This is a pure warlock, but I'd probably /prefer/ a level of fighter for Archery fighting style, con save prof and second wind.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'm sure you have a point there, but it escapes me. At level three when I take pact of the blade, I can change out one of my level 2 invocations for pact of the blade.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
If your party has just you, a Barbarian, and a Rogue, then Sacred Flame is a good choice for you because it gives you a spell that makes the enemy do a dex save instead of you doing an attack roll. Generally, it's better to do an attack roll than to make the enemy do a save, but it can be hard for your party to not have anyone setup to do well against an opponent with a high AC. Mechanically, it's probably best to still have a cantrip with an attack roll. But if you want your PC to think that he's a Cleric, it actually makes sense to not have any cantrips with an attack roll because Clerics don't get cantrips with attack rolls. Choosing Toll the Dead is a great choice thematically, and mechanically it's nice to have a different type of damage and a different type of saving throw.
I think your character will be just fine with those two damaging cantrips, and it's a great fit thematically for your Warlock that thinks he is a Cleric to use those two cantrips as his go-to cantrips in combat.
Because your character wouldn't have any attack cantrips until level 4, you're in the unique situation where your Warlock won't need to use the Hex spell, so you can use your concentration for something else. You'll get to do the unique Warlock that doesn't use his concentration for Hex. If you take Chill Touch at level 4, that's a decent choice. It's a good attack cantrip. But it's a type of damage you already have from Toll the Dead, and it's not nearly as powerful as Eldritch Blast. It does give you some reason to use Hex.
Flaming Sphere is a pretty good option for your concentration. Because you only have two spell slots, you really want to focus on learning spells that require concentration, so that you get more use out of your two spell slots. Hold Person is also a great choice, especially with your party, and unlike Flaming Sphere, it is a Cleric spell, and a spell that Clerics are well known for using. If you want your character to be under the impression that he's a Cleric, you have to be careful about him learning too many spells that Clerics don't get to learn. That might be a reason to avoid using the spell Hex with him.
By the time you get to level 4, you'll probably know whether or not you are really itching to have an attack cantrip, or if you're content to just use Sacred Flame and Toll the Dead most of the time.
Yes, that's what I was thinking when I initially made the post. Probably just use Sacred Flame, Toll the Dead, and other cantrips first early level and then maybe later on for my last cantrip or if a character moment happens where my DM gives my character a revelation on their patron then I could take the Eldritch Blast and Hex if I needed to.
As someone who's presently playing a celestial warlock, I can say I'd be mighty disappointed if I was stuck with sacred flame and toll the dead as my options.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Mechanically, Hex + Eldritch Blast is far far more powerful than Cleric cantrips. Clerics are known for having incredibly weak cantrip options, which they make up for with Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians and Divine Strike or Potent Spellcasting. If he wants to play an optimized character, he should skip the "I think I'm a Cleric" line and embrace Hex + Eldritch Blast. But if he wants to stick with the "I think I'm a Cleric" line, then he has to be careful about learning too many things that Clerics can't do.
Every D&D group has a different culture, and that culture determines how willing they are to have players make suboptimal builds and to do suboptimal things during combat. Some are very much into min-maxing and love the strategy aspect of combat and treat it as a puzzle to figure out. But other groups find the role playing aspect more fun and find it entertaining to have characters with flaws. Caring about min-maxing and loving the strategy aspect of combat doesn't stop you from having a very interesting character for role playing purposes, and to still have a lot of fun with the role playing aspect. But caring about min-maxing would rule out some types of characters, such as a Celestial Warlock that thinks he's a Cleric, and chooses his abilities in a way that would allow his player to maintain that delusion. It's a big stretch to make because your character has to ignore stuff like the spell slot mechanics of a Warlock being so different, of the invocations being so different, and of his Warlock not being able to use a shield the way nearly every Cleric does. And not having access to something of the well known Cleric spells like Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians. And not being able to change out his prepared spells each day. And so many other things like that. So it's a pretty big stretch. He should most likely make intelligence his dump stat if he's going to try to make this character realistic. Because even with a 10 in intelligence, a Celestial Warlock should be able to figure out that he's not a Cleric.
there's a difference between making a suboptimal choice and making a choice that is likely to be unfun. I cannot foresee having a lot of fun, with a non blade pact, celestial warlock. I cast a lot of sacred flame on my lock as it is, and I know precisely what I am missing out on when I do so. I ignored the first post in the thread when I saw it as soon as I saw "I don't like EB" because I had nothing constructive to say at that point.
A relying on sacred flame and toll the dead is going to be worse than a cleric (even one that chooses to not use SW/SG) and worse than a warlock. EB is what DEFINES a warlock, and if you choose to not use it, you've got to have a pretty good idea as to what you're going to be left with. Non EB celestial locks that I would /consider/ are a ranged melee bladelock with a bow. I /might/ consider a drow melee lock with SCAG cantrips and a rapier, but that's iffy. The other non EB warlock I might consider is a tomelock with Shillelagh on my staff and the SCAG cantrips. Those are worse than an EB spammer, but they are close enough to not be awful.
Casting sacred flame on my celestial warlock feels bad, and it's only a matter of time before the OP noticed how much far behind /everyone else/ he really is.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I'm having a lot of fun with a Celestial Warlock with Pact of the Chain for the Gift of the Ever-Living Ones invocation and relying on Green Flame Blade. For a while I was using it along with Shadow Blade, but now I'm doing it with a Flame Tongue Shortsword and casting Shadow of Moil.
I'm not pact of the blade, and I don't know Hex or Eldritch Blast, but it's still a lot of fun.
Edit: I started off with 1 level in Fighter to give proficiency in Constitution Saves, a Second Wind self heal every short rest, proficiency with shields, +1AC when wearing armor - with 18 dexterity, I'm fine using Studded Leather, and proficiency with martial weapons including short swords (although this proficiency also could have been obtained by being an Elf instead of a Half-Elf). My character is a Fighter 1 Warlock 7 now.
The reason I would go blade pact is for thirsting blade, improved pact weapon and eldritch smite. I'm pretty sure this character would crap on a EB spammer, but I have not run the numbers to be certain. With haste running, it gets 3 attacks/round with a longbow, and it can smite with the second spell slot. If the target is the cursed, it crits on a 19 or 20 (to drop the smite), and if I can figure out how to get advantage, it has elven accuracy to give me three chances to crit. I'd probably be better off mathematically with sharpshooter, but I hate missing. It's still a work in progress, so I haven't fleshed out all the details yet.
https://ddb.ac/characters/33152649/OyIukq
A celestial archer would be good too, but I'd have to push dex over charisma, and would be less crit-fishy That's not a huge problem, this hexblade version was mostly to see what was possible rather than something I'd want to play.
For a more "legal" version (to be AL version I'd have to go standard half-elf) celestial which might be of interest to the OP since he wants non-standard. I'm taking improved pact weapon ASAP, and pact of the blade at level 3. I'd push my dex and ignore my charisma. This is a pure warlock, but I'd probably /prefer/ a level of fighter for Archery fighting style, con save prof and second wind.
https://ddb.ac/characters/33156212/Ycp3VJ
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I'm sure you have a point there, but it escapes me. At level three when I take pact of the blade, I can change out one of my level 2 invocations for pact of the blade.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Right, but I (mis)understood your post to indicate you would get the invocation first (ASAP), and (then, later) pact of the blade.
Others will read this and I don't want them to be misled. :)