Well, EB with a range of 120', makes a low A/C rarely an issue.
Sounds like you have one of those rare DMs that for some reason never throws enemy spellcasters or enemy archers at your party and has the enemy melee damage dealers foolishly just wail away at your tank instead of going after its squishier ranged opponents. And one that never has combats take place inside small rooms or tight spaces where 30ft range is more than enough.
At 120', I'm out of the range of the majority of spells. E.g. lightning bolt has a range of 100'. We fight in small rooms occasionally. The key is to stay behind the tank. :)
Archers are easy to deal with. The Wizard in our group just casts fog cloud if they attack from the high ground.
Darkness spell combined with devils sight is sweet...
Also gift of the ever living one makes taking damage less of an issue. :)
And having a familiar that can scout from above while invisible reduces the probability of being ambushed.
Fog Cloud means that they can't see you, but that you can't see them, so it cancels out.
Escaping an attack is often enough. You don't necessary have to kill everything to win.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Well, EB with a range of 120', makes a low A/C rarely an issue.
Sounds like you have one of those rare DMs that for some reason never throws enemy spellcasters or enemy archers at your party and has the enemy melee damage dealers foolishly just wail away at your tank instead of going after its squishier ranged opponents. And one that never has combats take place inside small rooms or tight spaces where 30ft range is more than enough.
At 120', I'm out of the range of the majority of spells. E.g. lightning bolt has a range of 100'. We fight in small rooms occasionally. The key is to stay behind the tank. :)
Archers are easy to deal with. The Wizard in our group just casts fog cloud if they attack from the high ground.
Darkness spell combined with devils sight is sweet...
Also gift of the ever living one makes taking damage less of an issue. :)
And having a familiar that can scout from above while invisible reduces the probability of being ambushed.
Fog Cloud means that they can't see you, but that you can't see them, so it cancels out.
Escaping an attack is often enough. You don't necessary have to kill everything to win.
Fog Cloud stops spell casters from casting spells on you that require them to see their target. It doesn't stop archers from shooting you. Unless your DM decides to be soft on you and plays it that way.
Well, EB with a range of 120', makes a low A/C rarely an issue.
Sounds like you have one of those rare DMs that for some reason never throws enemy spellcasters or enemy archers at your party and has the enemy melee damage dealers foolishly just wail away at your tank instead of going after its squishier ranged opponents. And one that never has combats take place inside small rooms or tight spaces where 30ft range is more than enough.
At 120', I'm out of the range of the majority of spells. E.g. lightning bolt has a range of 100'. We fight in small rooms occasionally. The key is to stay behind the tank. :)
Archers are easy to deal with. The Wizard in our group just casts fog cloud if they attack from the high ground.
Darkness spell combined with devils sight is sweet...
Also gift of the ever living one makes taking damage less of an issue. :)
And having a familiar that can scout from above while invisible reduces the probability of being ambushed.
Fog Cloud means that they can't see you, but that you can't see them, so it cancels out.
Escaping an attack is often enough. You don't necessary have to kill everything to win.
Fog Cloud stops spell casters from casting spells on you that require them to see their target. It doesn't stop archers from shooting you. Unless your DM decides to be soft on you and plays it that way.
The rules don't count fog cloud as cover, causing their attacks to be at disadvantage, espscially if we aren't attacking them??
Ok, found an explanation on the Internet. The rules are ridiculous. My DM was right to give them disadvantage. That's not being soft, that's being perfectly reasonable.
See pages 194 and 195 in the player's handbook for Unseen Attackers and Targets. They get disadvantage because they can't see you, but they get advantage because you can't see them. In other words, it cancels out and they attack like normal. So Fog Cloud does not affect archers.
See pages 194 and 195 in the player's handbook for Unseen Attackers and Targets. They get disadvantage because they can't see you, but they get advantage because you can't see them. In other words, it cancels out and they attack like normal. So Fog Cloud does not affect archers.
Yea, I read that, I still think it's ridiculous.
Nonetheless, the archers would still need to guess the correct square that you are in.
If they shoot at an empty square, that would be an automatic miss.
Hexblade is going to give you med armor + shield, and hexblade's curse which improves eldrich blast more than anything else any subclass is going to give you.
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
Getting hit as a warlock means possibly losing concentration on hex, and losing a spell slot which is why armor, and not getting hit is important to EB.
So you ask why take hexblade when you have eldrich blast, and the answer is you take hexblade because of elcrich blast, since it is the best subclass to support EB.
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
It's a maximum of 120'. My point was that it allows me to stay out of melee range, even if it's only 20'.
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
It's a maximum of 120'. My point was that it allows me to stay out of melee range, even if it's only 20'.
Yeah, but if you are in 20ft, you are in range of something walking into melee.
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
It's a maximum of 120'. My point was that it allows me to stay out of melee range, even if it's only 20'.
Yeah, but if you are in 20ft, you are in range of something walking into melee.
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
It's a maximum of 120'. My point was that it allows me to stay out of melee range, even if it's only 20'.
Yeah, but if you are in 20ft, you are in range of something walking into melee.
Not if you stay behind the tank... :)
And use Repelling Blast to push creatures further from you. You can also use your movement to back away while your blasting (just keeping looking over your shoulder!)
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
It's a maximum of 120'. My point was that it allows me to stay out of melee range, even if it's only 20'.
Yeah, but if you are in 20ft, you are in range of something walking into melee.
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
It's a maximum of 120'. My point was that it allows me to stay out of melee range, even if it's only 20'.
Yeah, but if you are in 20ft, you are in range of something walking into melee.
Not if you stay behind the tank... :)
If you're fighting in a corridor five feet wide.
Well, that speaks to the (lack of) skills of the tanks in your party, not mine. :)
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
It's a maximum of 120'. My point was that it allows me to stay out of melee range, even if it's only 20'.
Yeah, but if you are in 20ft, you are in range of something walking into melee.
Not if you stay behind the tank... :)
If you're fighting in a corridor five feet wide.
Well, that speaks to the (lack of) skills of the tanks in your party, not mine. :)
It speaks to the kindness of your DM playing like this is World of Warcraft PVE where a tank can easily hold aggro, instead of playing like this World of Warcraft PVP where there's no such thing as a tank.
I feel at this point he's just arguing to "win", not because he actually has proper arguments. Just let the topic die.
I'm countering other peoples arguments. That is still valid part the discussion.
There are at least a few people here who believe that hexblade or a multiclassed warlock is the only effective build. I disagree.
They seem to believe that being in melee combat is the ideal use of a warlock, and that there is no value in battlefield control.
They seem to forget that even if fog cloud doesn't result in disadvantage, ane archer still has to aim and shoot into a square with a PC there in order to hit.
They seem to not understand that it's normal and tactically sound for spellcasting classes to stay in the back as much as possible, and that monsters will usually focus on the opponent with a sword in it's face (the immediate threat), even if the hallway is wide enough for them to move past the fighter.
And in the end, A/C doesn't really matter because the DM rolls dice behind a screen, and if he wants a monster to hit you, it will hit you regardless of the actual dice roll (or vice versa)
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
It's a maximum of 120'. My point was that it allows me to stay out of melee range, even if it's only 20'.
Yeah, but if you are in 20ft, you are in range of something walking into melee.
Not if you stay behind the tank... :)
If you're fighting in a corridor five feet wide.
Well, that speaks to the (lack of) skills of the tanks in your party, not mine. :)
It speaks to the kindness of your DM playing like this is World of Warcraft PVE where a tank can easily hold aggro, instead of playing like this World of Warcraft PVP where there's no such thing as a tank.
There is no such thing as a fighter/paladin/ranger/barbarian in your D&D world?
You missed the point on that one - he is saying in PvP for WoW your tank taunt skills have no effect. Hence no such thing as a tank.
In D&D there is also no taunt and honestly casters should be targeted first. If you take them down the tank is a lot easier. Even standing directly behind a tank shouldn't give you full immunity - but again, we only have generalities of your play situation.
I have actually never seen anyone say Hexlock is the only way to play. Actually seen more non-hexblade warlocks; but it doesn't really matter. Do whatever you like to have fun.
I feel at this point he's just arguing to "win", not because he actually has proper arguments. Just let the topic die.
I'm countering other peoples arguments. That is still valid part the discussion.
There are at least a few people here who believe that hexblade or a multiclassed warlock is the only effective build. I disagree.
They seem to believe that being in melee combat is the ideal use of a warlock, and that there is no value in battlefield control.
They seem to forget that even if fog cloud doesn't result in disadvantage, ane archer still has to aim and shoot into a square with a PC there in order to hit.
They seem to not understand that it's normal and tactically sound for spellcasting classes to stay in the back as much as possible, and that monsters will usually focus on the opponent with a sword in it's face (the immediate threat), even if the hallway is wide enough for them to move past the fighter.
And in the end, A/C doesn't really matter because the DM rolls dice behind a screen, and if he wants a monster to hit you, it will hit you regardless of the actual dice roll (or vice versa)
Nobody here is saying that Hexblade or Multiclassed Warlock is the only effective build. Nobody is saying that being in melee range is the ideal use of a Warlock. In fact, the Eldritch Blast is the most common and most effective Warlock, and nobody here has disputed that. Nobody here has said that you shouldn't play an Eldritch Blast Warlock. But you come on here to say that nobody should play a Hexblade Warlock.
But Hexblade is also viable. Both are viable. We aren't saying that Eldritch Blast Warlock isn't viable. You're the one saying that Hexblade isn't viable. You came here asking why would anyone do a Hexblade. Nobody here has said that Hexblade is the only viable option.
But in your argument against Hexblade, you've made the ridiculous claim that ranged damage dealers don't have to worry about being attacked because the tank can handle that for them. One of the attractive things about a Hexblade is their higher AC. And you're stuck on countering that argument by pretending that ranged damage dealers don't have to worry about AC, when that's clearly not the case.
You're forgetting that unless you do the Hide Action, the enemy knows exactly where you are even if they can't see you.
We're not saying that ranged classes should stand up in melee range. We're saying that a DM that isn't being soft on you will have the enemies come to your ranged damage dealers. This doesn't mean that the Eldritch Blast Warlock isn't viable. It just means that AC and HP do matter for ranged damage dealers.
We are saying that a monster with an enemy in heavy armor with a sword in its face is a less attractive enemy to attack than a spellcaster without armor on. If you're fighting more than one enemy at a time, they're not going to all swarm the heavily armored Paladin and ignore the unarmored Wizard. Unless your DM is being soft on you. And many DMs don't roll behind a screen.
If you're going to try to pretend that we're saying that the Eldritch Blast Warlock isn't viable, you're probably just trolling.
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Escaping an attack is often enough. You don't necessary have to kill everything to win.
That means they don't drop loot for you.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
We found the dragon heist. Money is no object... :)
But really, a few low level archers wouldn't have much loot anyway.
Fog Cloud stops spell casters from casting spells on you that require them to see their target. It doesn't stop archers from shooting you. Unless your DM decides to be soft on you and plays it that way.
The rules don't count fog cloud as cover, causing their attacks to be at disadvantage, espscially if we aren't attacking them??
Ok, found an explanation on the Internet. The rules are ridiculous. My DM was right to give them disadvantage. That's not being soft, that's being perfectly reasonable.
See pages 194 and 195 in the player's handbook for Unseen Attackers and Targets. They get disadvantage because they can't see you, but they get advantage because you can't see them. In other words, it cancels out and they attack like normal. So Fog Cloud does not affect archers.
Yea, I read that, I still think it's ridiculous.
Nonetheless, the archers would still need to guess the correct square that you are in.
If they shoot at an empty square, that would be an automatic miss.
Hexblade is going to give you med armor + shield, and hexblade's curse which improves eldrich blast more than anything else any subclass is going to give you.
Yes, you have 120ft on EB, but one of the Ds in D&D is for dungeon, where there are narrow corridors walls, corners,and rooms that wont allow you to just stand 120ft back and shoot things without them being able to touch you. (not to mention that your hex is 90ft range).
Getting hit as a warlock means possibly losing concentration on hex, and losing a spell slot which is why armor, and not getting hit is important to EB.
So you ask why take hexblade when you have eldrich blast, and the answer is you take hexblade because of elcrich blast, since it is the best subclass to support EB.
It's a maximum of 120'. My point was that it allows me to stay out of melee range, even if it's only 20'.
Yeah, but if you are in 20ft, you are in range of something walking into melee.
Not if you stay behind the tank... :)
And use Repelling Blast to push creatures further from you. You can also use your movement to back away while your blasting (just keeping looking over your shoulder!)
If you're fighting in a corridor five feet wide.
Well, that speaks to the (lack of) skills of the tanks in your party, not mine. :)
It speaks to the kindness of your DM playing like this is World of Warcraft PVE where a tank can easily hold aggro, instead of playing like this World of Warcraft PVP where there's no such thing as a tank.
I'm countering other peoples arguments. That is still valid part the discussion.
There are at least a few people here who believe that hexblade or a multiclassed warlock is the only effective build. I disagree.
They seem to believe that being in melee combat is the ideal use of a warlock, and that there is no value in battlefield control.
They seem to forget that even if fog cloud doesn't result in disadvantage, ane archer still has to aim and shoot into a square with a PC there in order to hit.
They seem to not understand that it's normal and tactically sound for spellcasting classes to stay in the back as much as possible, and that monsters will usually focus on the opponent with a sword in it's face (the immediate threat), even if the hallway is wide enough for them to move past the fighter.
And in the end, A/C doesn't really matter because the DM rolls dice behind a screen, and if he wants a monster to hit you, it will hit you regardless of the actual dice roll (or vice versa)
There is no such thing as a fighter/paladin/ranger/barbarian in your D&D world?
You missed the point on that one - he is saying in PvP for WoW your tank taunt skills have no effect. Hence no such thing as a tank.
In D&D there is also no taunt and honestly casters should be targeted first. If you take them down the tank is a lot easier.
Even standing directly behind a tank shouldn't give you full immunity - but again, we only have generalities of your play situation.
I have actually never seen anyone say Hexlock is the only way to play. Actually seen more non-hexblade warlocks; but it doesn't really matter. Do whatever you like to have fun.
Nobody here is saying that Hexblade or Multiclassed Warlock is the only effective build. Nobody is saying that being in melee range is the ideal use of a Warlock. In fact, the Eldritch Blast is the most common and most effective Warlock, and nobody here has disputed that. Nobody here has said that you shouldn't play an Eldritch Blast Warlock. But you come on here to say that nobody should play a Hexblade Warlock.
But Hexblade is also viable. Both are viable. We aren't saying that Eldritch Blast Warlock isn't viable. You're the one saying that Hexblade isn't viable. You came here asking why would anyone do a Hexblade. Nobody here has said that Hexblade is the only viable option.
But in your argument against Hexblade, you've made the ridiculous claim that ranged damage dealers don't have to worry about being attacked because the tank can handle that for them. One of the attractive things about a Hexblade is their higher AC. And you're stuck on countering that argument by pretending that ranged damage dealers don't have to worry about AC, when that's clearly not the case.
You're forgetting that unless you do the Hide Action, the enemy knows exactly where you are even if they can't see you.
We're not saying that ranged classes should stand up in melee range. We're saying that a DM that isn't being soft on you will have the enemies come to your ranged damage dealers. This doesn't mean that the Eldritch Blast Warlock isn't viable. It just means that AC and HP do matter for ranged damage dealers.
We are saying that a monster with an enemy in heavy armor with a sword in its face is a less attractive enemy to attack than a spellcaster without armor on. If you're fighting more than one enemy at a time, they're not going to all swarm the heavily armored Paladin and ignore the unarmored Wizard. Unless your DM is being soft on you. And many DMs don't roll behind a screen.
If you're going to try to pretend that we're saying that the Eldritch Blast Warlock isn't viable, you're probably just trolling.