We’re starting a new campaign at 6th level, and I’ve built a Yuan-ti pureblood GOO Pact of the Chain Warlock. We had a “session 0.5” yesterday, to iron out PC motives and a brief white room combat, and I thought it would be good to test the utilities of Scarlett, his poisonous snake familiar.
We were all locked in separate cells in a holding space for combat, and my character, who generally hates to get his hands dirty, decided to act through Scarlett, thanks to the Voice of the Chain Master Invocation. The cracks around the door were too small for a snake, and my DM was generous in granting me the time to change Scarlett’s form before things started, so I picked Imp. She turned into a spider, went invisible, and skittered through the crack and out to where the guards and warden were waiting.
So here are some things I learned from this encounter:
- Initiative order matters. Scarlett rolled high, ending up at the top of each round, and Coyle (my Warlock) was at the lower end of the initiative order. The warden opponent rolled an initiative in between us, so any time I positioned her to attack him, he would move away before she could use my attack on my turn to poison him. I had better luck with the guards, whose initiative was dead last. I’m thinking the ideal would be for my familiar to have a turn just before me, so she can position on her turn and strike on mine, without anybody moving around in between.
- Generally, the familiar just shouldn’t attack. Given the circumstances of our white room, it made sense for me to use her this way, but in similar future scenarios, I think I’ll just have her go for the keys on the warden’s belt to come get me out, using the help action for the other PCs as she can along the way. By the time Coyle got out of his cell, the encounter was almost done, but I could have been tossing Eldritch Blasts into the mix a lot sooner if I’d kept Scarlett more single-minded.
- The thematically appropriate familiar form isn’t the best choice. As chainlock familiars go, nothing at all compares to the imp, and since our group has no Rogues, the choice is all the more obvious. But my PC’s story makes so much sense with a snake for a familiar. Maybe I should talk to my DM about houseruling the forms an imp can Shapechange into or something?
Is there anything else I might need to know in order to effectively use my familiar? Anything I missed in this brief encounter that could solve some of the issues I ran into?
Hey, i am no dnd optimization expert so i can't help you much in that regard but i have a question for you: I've been meaning to create a Yuan-ti pure blood Great Old One warlock but it seems at the moment i am at the "forever DM" phase, and once i saw your post i was hoping, if you don't mind, sharing your character's backstory so i can get some inspiration from it.
The only thing i managed to get done with my character are the patrons and yes you read it right my character has two patrons: Dendar, The night Serpent and Yig, The father of serpents (by HPL)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
I would love to share his story! As much as I enjoy some optimization, I'm really in this for the cool characters and role play.
First off, the setting: the DM wanted to run an evil campaign, in alternate history Victorian Earth, but with a comical twist. Think "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen meets Venture Bros." and you have the gist of what he wants to do.
Mechanically, my Yuan-ti is a level 5 Warlock and a level 1 Draconic Sorcerer. It lets me get a decent AP without having to worry about armor (he's a bit of a dandy), plus I'll be able spam Eldritch Blasts in a couple of levels. I chose Chainlock because we don't have a rogue in our group, and a familiar could cover a lot of the scouting/stealth roles in our adventures.
For my PC's story, my DM encouraged me to come up with my own origin for Yuan-ti in the setting, as he didn't want to try and fold in all of the official lore into his setting. So I've kind of cherry picked the lore for ideas that I like, while considering how they're folded into the setting. Sebastian Coyle is a servant of a patron he's only ever called "The Sibilant King" (similar to Sseth), who lies in wait for a time to return. He's (somehow) tied to extant remnants of Mayan traditions, Reptilian conspiracy theories, and the mysteries underneath the yet-to-be-built Dulce Base in New Mexico. Coyle's role (still broadly defined) is to gather resources and chattel for slaves, food, and assets within the world's infrastructure, etc. He's the latest incarnation of a fiendish being who has served the Sibilant King over the centuries, but with only fair to middling success, historically. He's earned another chance, however, returning to the mortal realm with ambitions that this time he can bring the Sibilant King back into physical being, then he'll prove himself a worthy servant. Secretly, underneath all this, he wants to become a being similar to the Sibilant King, with his own dominion and servants. In the meantime, he lives as though he was already a king. For inspiration, I've looked at the young Prince Vlad from Bram Stoker's Dracula, Cobra Commander from G.I.Joe, and Aleister Crowley. Here's what I wrote for his backstory:
In every society, you must peel away layers to find its darkest truths. A city has its casinos, brothels, and opium dens. Those have their hidden delights for the privileged elite. Still deeper are the meeting places of cults and cabals, where the most powerful forge their pacts. Here stands Sebastian Coyle, known by some as "the Prime Ohkan", the hub of a wheel of deception, drugs, and debauchery. But peel back one more skin, and Coyle seems to be a different kind of creature: more than human, as he sees it, and associated with a being he calls "the Sibilant King".
Scarlett is another fiendish servant of the Sibilant King. She and Coyle consider themselves siblings, though their literal blood relation is dubious, but no longer relevant. She too stood to be chosen for return to mortality to serve their serpentine master, but essentially lost the rochambeau game to her brother. Torn between resentment and affection for her brother, Scarlett feels that she would go about things very differently on "the surface world", but recognizes that, for now at least, she is dependent on her brother to even exist there as a familiar, and promises to help him has promised to help him. If Coyle dies (and this is likely, since character death is not unheard of at our table), then Scarlett would take her brother's place in the mortal world to continue the Cause...
I would love to share his story! As much as I enjoy some optimization, I'm really in this for the cool characters and role play.
First off, the setting: the DM wanted to run an evil campaign, in alternate history Victorian Earth, but with a comical twist. Think "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen meets Venture Bros." and you have the gist of what he wants to do.
Mechanically, my Yuan-ti is a level 5 Warlock and a level 1 Draconic Sorcerer. It lets me get a decent AP without having to worry about armor (he's a bit of a dandy), plus I'll be able spam Eldritch Blasts in a couple of levels. I chose Chainlock because we don't have a rogue in our group, and a familiar could cover a lot of the scouting/stealth roles in our adventures.
For my PC's story, my DM encouraged me to come up with my own origin for Yuan-ti in the setting, as he didn't want to try and fold in all of the official lore into his setting. So I've kind of cherry picked the lore for ideas that I like, while considering how they're folded into the setting. Sebastian Coyle is a servant of a patron he's only ever called "The Sibilant King" (similar to Sseth), who lies in wait for a time to return. He's (somehow) tied to extant remnants of Mayan traditions, Reptilian conspiracy theories, and the mysteries underneath the yet-to-be-built Dulce Base in New Mexico. Coyle's role (still broadly defined) is to gather resources and chattel for slaves, food, and assets within the world's infrastructure, etc. He's the latest incarnation of a fiendish being who has served the Sibilant King over the centuries, but with only fair to middling success, historically. He's earned another chance, however, returning to the mortal realm with ambitions that this time he can bring the Sibilant King back into physical being, then he'll prove himself a worthy servant. Secretly, underneath all this, he wants to become a being similar to the Sibilant King, with his own dominion and servants. In the meantime, he lives as though he was already a king. For inspiration, I've looked at the young Prince Vlad from Bram Stoker's Dracula, Cobra Commander from G.I.Joe, and Aleister Crowley. Here's what I wrote for his backstory:
In every society, you must peel away layers to find its darkest truths. A city has its casinos, brothels, and opium dens. Those have their hidden delights for the privileged elite. Still deeper are the meeting places of cults and cabals, where the most powerful forge their pacts. Here stands Sebastian Coyle, known by some as "the Prime Ohkan", the hub of a wheel of deception, drugs, and debauchery. But peel back one more skin, and Coyle seems to be a different kind of creature: more than human, as he sees it, and associated with a being he calls "the Sibilant King".
Scarlett is another fiendish servant of the Sibilant King. She and Coyle consider themselves siblings, though their literal blood relation is dubious, but no longer relevant. She too stood to be chosen for return to mortality to serve their serpentine master, but essentially lost the rochambeau game to her brother. Torn between resentment and affection for her brother, Scarlett feels that she would go about things very differently on "the surface world", but recognizes that, for now at least, she is dependent on her brother to even exist there as a familiar, and promises to help him has promised to help him. If Coyle dies (and this is likely, since character death is not unheard of at our table), then Scarlett would take her brother's place in the mortal world to continue the Cause...
That's a spicy story you have there friend. Good job on making it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Yeah, he said we could revisit it later. He doesn't want to potentially unbalance things right off the bat, and doesn't have time to think it all out before we get started, which is fair.
He's not new. I think it's more accurate to say he's burned out a little. He really wants to play, but he's clearly hitting some walls of exhaustion. This new campaign is explicitly designed to alleviate some of those pressures and burdens. I think there are a lot of easy fixes to get what I want, but I just don't think he has the time/energy to look into any potential mechanic complications.
He wants me sticking with RAW for the time being. :( Oh well.
So has anyone found good ways to strategically plan for Familiar forms, or should I just say that Scarlett is a long, slinky, scaly imp?
First, definitely a great backstory. The Sibilant King sounds like a is a really interesting Goo-lock patron.
Second, I think you should reflavor the ever-useful Imp into something more thematically appropriate. There is no shortage of serpent demons in mythology, so it stands to reason that an imp could be "long, slinky, scaly". Maybe a small, fiendish couatl-like demon?
He wants me sticking with RAW for the time being. :( Oh well.
So has anyone found good ways to strategically plan for Familiar forms, or should I just say that Scarlett is a long, slinky, scaly imp?
First, definitely a great backstory. The Sibilant King sounds like a is a really interesting Goo-lock patron.
Second, I think you should reflavor the ever-useful Imp into something more thematically appropriate. There is no shortage of serpent demons in mythology, so it stands to reason that an imp could be "long, slinky, scaly". Maybe a small, fiendish couatl-like demon?
imps are devils i just cant stand when people mix them up
He wants me sticking with RAW for the time being. :( Oh well.
So has anyone found good ways to strategically plan for Familiar forms, or should I just say that Scarlett is a long, slinky, scaly imp?
First, definitely a great backstory. The Sibilant King sounds like a is a really interesting Goo-lock patron.
Second, I think you should reflavor the ever-useful Imp into something more thematically appropriate. There is no shortage of serpent demons in mythology, so it stands to reason that an imp could be "long, slinky, scaly". Maybe a small, fiendish couatl-like demon?
imps are devils i just cant stand when people mix them up
Eyeroll...your Imp familiar can be a Fey for that matter. If you patron is a demon your imp is probably not a devil. Ugh.
Scarlett is a fiend, but doesn't involve herself in Infernal partisanship. ;)
Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your post with our Impish squabbles! Find Familiar is pretty wide open for you to choose a celestial, fey, or fiend that can take any of the special chain lock forms. Call it what you want (privately lol!). I have used both the Imp and everyone's favorite DEMON, the quasit, to reflavor chain familiars into a Celestial Monkey, a Vampire/Fruit Bat creature from the Feywild, and a mini fiendish Krampus. Each time the stat blocked stayed the exact same. It was just a matter of re-imagining the creature to match the theme of your character and the unique nature of your familiar's spirit. I hope all DMs allow such imagination!
If you are not changing any of the mechanics of the creature, it shouldn't hurt anything.
It also seems reasonable to swap one of the Imp's forms to a snake. Since the Imps statistics are the same in each form except for the speed changes, what not just call the rat a snake instead? Nothing else would change. Your little guy is just scaly instead of furry.
Also, are you playing 2 warlocks? Scarlet and Coyle? Or did I misread that?
Scarlett is the name of the familiar. For flavor reasons (and because the DM doesn’t seem to caught up on the setting’s cosmology), I decided that my GOO patron is “fiendish”, so having the familiar of the same type makes sense.
To follow the tangent of familiar creature types and reskinning , I’ve often thought it would be interesting if it was just like a cosmetic effect. A celestial warlock with an imp familiar, for example, might say it’s actually a cherub to match the character’s flavor; but what if it’s actually an imp, but with celestial qualities? Every time it’s summoned, the poor celestial being is begging the warlock to have a less devilish shape, but is disappointed by its summoner’s “mechanically effective” choice of form? Make for some humorous role play, IMO.
I don’t see any problem with just swapping out an imp form, except that if it had a snake form instead of a rat form, now it arguably has a swim speed option. He might not want to stack that on top of the already useful imp...
I have definitely reskinned Imp for my Celestial Yuan-Ti pureblood warlock, I used a rainbow serpent form, but didn't change the star block apart from alignment
I also agree with your second point Generally, the familiar just shouldn’t attack.
However, there are a couple of UA Invocations that improve the combat effectiveness of your familiar: Chain Master’s Fury and Investment of the Chain Master.
These invocations allow your familiar to attack using your bonus action and your spell save DC. In your case, Scarlet could attack using your bonus action and spell save DC for poison effects. I haven't used these so I don't know if the investment is worthwhile. If I were to take these invocations I would probably consider a Sprite for its ranged attack and stronger poison.
Imps have Devil's sight. Cast your Darkness Spell on them to be able to reposition the sphere so it doesn't screw the party.
Imps have thumbs and enough Strength to carry stuff. Give them the healing potions and have them administer them to party members, or anything else that needs to done that takes an action but isn't an attack.
Imps are fire proof, give them flasks of oil/alchemist fire to burn down the structures and strongholds of your enemies.
Imps can be invisible and the size of a spider, or invisible and fly. They can get just about anywhere.
Imps aren't dumb (Int 11), give them commands ahead of time (If/Then).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Abide.
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We’re starting a new campaign at 6th level, and I’ve built a Yuan-ti pureblood GOO Pact of the Chain Warlock. We had a “session 0.5” yesterday, to iron out PC motives and a brief white room combat, and I thought it would be good to test the utilities of Scarlett, his poisonous snake familiar.
We were all locked in separate cells in a holding space for combat, and my character, who generally hates to get his hands dirty, decided to act through Scarlett, thanks to the Voice of the Chain Master Invocation. The cracks around the door were too small for a snake, and my DM was generous in granting me the time to change Scarlett’s form before things started, so I picked Imp. She turned into a spider, went invisible, and skittered through the crack and out to where the guards and warden were waiting.
So here are some things I learned from this encounter:
- Initiative order matters. Scarlett rolled high, ending up at the top of each round, and Coyle (my Warlock) was at the lower end of the initiative order. The warden opponent rolled an initiative in between us, so any time I positioned her to attack him, he would move away before she could use my attack on my turn to poison him. I had better luck with the guards, whose initiative was dead last. I’m thinking the ideal would be for my familiar to have a turn just before me, so she can position on her turn and strike on mine, without anybody moving around in between.
- Generally, the familiar just shouldn’t attack. Given the circumstances of our white room, it made sense for me to use her this way, but in similar future scenarios, I think I’ll just have her go for the keys on the warden’s belt to come get me out, using the help action for the other PCs as she can along the way. By the time Coyle got out of his cell, the encounter was almost done, but I could have been tossing Eldritch Blasts into the mix a lot sooner if I’d kept Scarlett more single-minded.
- The thematically appropriate familiar form isn’t the best choice. As chainlock familiars go, nothing at all compares to the imp, and since our group has no Rogues, the choice is all the more obvious. But my PC’s story makes so much sense with a snake for a familiar. Maybe I should talk to my DM about houseruling the forms an imp can Shapechange into or something?
Is there anything else I might need to know in order to effectively use my familiar? Anything I missed in this brief encounter that could solve some of the issues I ran into?
Hey, i am no dnd optimization expert so i can't help you much in that regard but i have a question for you:
I've been meaning to create a Yuan-ti pure blood Great Old One warlock but it seems at the moment i am at the "forever DM" phase, and once i saw your post i was hoping, if you don't mind, sharing your character's backstory so i can get some inspiration from it.
The only thing i managed to get done with my character are the patrons and yes you read it right my character has two patrons: Dendar, The night Serpent and Yig, The father of serpents (by HPL)
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
I would love to share his story! As much as I enjoy some optimization, I'm really in this for the cool characters and role play.
First off, the setting: the DM wanted to run an evil campaign, in alternate history Victorian Earth, but with a comical twist. Think "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen meets Venture Bros." and you have the gist of what he wants to do.
Mechanically, my Yuan-ti is a level 5 Warlock and a level 1 Draconic Sorcerer. It lets me get a decent AP without having to worry about armor (he's a bit of a dandy), plus I'll be able spam Eldritch Blasts in a couple of levels. I chose Chainlock because we don't have a rogue in our group, and a familiar could cover a lot of the scouting/stealth roles in our adventures.
For my PC's story, my DM encouraged me to come up with my own origin for Yuan-ti in the setting, as he didn't want to try and fold in all of the official lore into his setting. So I've kind of cherry picked the lore for ideas that I like, while considering how they're folded into the setting. Sebastian Coyle is a servant of a patron he's only ever called "The Sibilant King" (similar to Sseth), who lies in wait for a time to return. He's (somehow) tied to extant remnants of Mayan traditions, Reptilian conspiracy theories, and the mysteries underneath the yet-to-be-built Dulce Base in New Mexico. Coyle's role (still broadly defined) is to gather resources and chattel for slaves, food, and assets within the world's infrastructure, etc. He's the latest incarnation of a fiendish being who has served the Sibilant King over the centuries, but with only fair to middling success, historically. He's earned another chance, however, returning to the mortal realm with ambitions that this time he can bring the Sibilant King back into physical being, then he'll prove himself a worthy servant. Secretly, underneath all this, he wants to become a being similar to the Sibilant King, with his own dominion and servants. In the meantime, he lives as though he was already a king. For inspiration, I've looked at the young Prince Vlad from Bram Stoker's Dracula, Cobra Commander from G.I.Joe, and Aleister Crowley. Here's what I wrote for his backstory:
Scarlett is another fiendish servant of the Sibilant King. She and Coyle consider themselves siblings, though their literal blood relation is dubious, but no longer relevant. She too stood to be chosen for return to mortality to serve their serpentine master, but essentially lost the rochambeau game to her brother. Torn between resentment and affection for her brother, Scarlett feels that she would go about things very differently on "the surface world", but recognizes that, for now at least, she is dependent on her brother to even exist there as a familiar, and promises to help him has promised to help him. If Coyle dies (and this is likely, since character death is not unheard of at our table), then Scarlett would take her brother's place in the mortal world to continue the Cause...
That's a spicy story you have there friend. Good job on making it.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
He wants me sticking with RAW for the time being. :( Oh well.
So has anyone found good ways to strategically plan for Familiar forms, or should I just say that Scarlett is a long, slinky, scaly imp?
Yeah, he said we could revisit it later. He doesn't want to potentially unbalance things right off the bat, and doesn't have time to think it all out before we get started, which is fair.
He's not new. I think it's more accurate to say he's burned out a little. He really wants to play, but he's clearly hitting some walls of exhaustion. This new campaign is explicitly designed to alleviate some of those pressures and burdens. I think there are a lot of easy fixes to get what I want, but I just don't think he has the time/energy to look into any potential mechanic complications.
First, definitely a great backstory. The Sibilant King sounds like a is a really interesting Goo-lock patron.
Second, I think you should reflavor the ever-useful Imp into something more thematically appropriate. There is no shortage of serpent demons in mythology, so it stands to reason that an imp could be "long, slinky, scaly". Maybe a small, fiendish couatl-like demon?
imps are devils i just cant stand when people mix them up
I am leader of the yep cult:https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/82135-yep-cult Pronouns are she/her
Eyeroll...your Imp familiar can be a Fey for that matter. If you patron is a demon your imp is probably not a devil. Ugh.
Scarlett is a fiend, but doesn't involve herself in Infernal partisanship. ;)
Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your post with our Impish squabbles! Find Familiar is pretty wide open for you to choose a celestial, fey, or fiend that can take any of the special chain lock forms. Call it what you want (privately lol!). I have used both the Imp and everyone's favorite DEMON, the quasit, to reflavor chain familiars into a Celestial Monkey, a Vampire/Fruit Bat creature from the Feywild, and a mini fiendish Krampus. Each time the stat blocked stayed the exact same. It was just a matter of re-imagining the creature to match the theme of your character and the unique nature of your familiar's spirit. I hope all DMs allow such imagination!
If you are not changing any of the mechanics of the creature, it shouldn't hurt anything.
It also seems reasonable to swap one of the Imp's forms to a snake. Since the Imps statistics are the same in each form except for the speed changes, what not just call the rat a snake instead? Nothing else would change. Your little guy is just scaly instead of furry.
Also, are you playing 2 warlocks? Scarlet and Coyle? Or did I misread that?
Scarlett is the name of the familiar. For flavor reasons (and because the DM doesn’t seem to caught up on the setting’s cosmology), I decided that my GOO patron is “fiendish”, so having the familiar of the same type makes sense.
To follow the tangent of familiar creature types and reskinning , I’ve often thought it would be interesting if it was just like a cosmetic effect. A celestial warlock with an imp familiar, for example, might say it’s actually a cherub to match the character’s flavor; but what if it’s actually an imp, but with celestial qualities? Every time it’s summoned, the poor celestial being is begging the warlock to have a less devilish shape, but is disappointed by its summoner’s “mechanically effective” choice of form? Make for some humorous role play, IMO.
I don’t see any problem with just swapping out an imp form, except that if it had a snake form instead of a rat form, now it arguably has a swim speed option. He might not want to stack that on top of the already useful imp...
I have definitely reskinned Imp for my Celestial Yuan-Ti pureblood warlock, I used a rainbow serpent form, but didn't change the star block apart from alignment
I also agree with your second point Generally, the familiar just shouldn’t attack.
However, there are a couple of UA Invocations that improve the combat effectiveness of your familiar: Chain Master’s Fury and Investment of the Chain Master.
These invocations allow your familiar to attack using your bonus action and your spell save DC. In your case, Scarlet could attack using your bonus action and spell save DC for poison effects. I haven't used these so I don't know if the investment is worthwhile. If I were to take these invocations I would probably consider a Sprite for its ranged attack and stronger poison.
Imps have Devil's sight. Cast your Darkness Spell on them to be able to reposition the sphere so it doesn't screw the party.
Imps have thumbs and enough Strength to carry stuff. Give them the healing potions and have them administer them to party members, or anything else that needs to done that takes an action but isn't an attack.
Imps are fire proof, give them flasks of oil/alchemist fire to burn down the structures and strongholds of your enemies.
Imps can be invisible and the size of a spider, or invisible and fly. They can get just about anywhere.
Imps aren't dumb (Int 11), give them commands ahead of time (If/Then).
Abide.