Seems to have more in common with 5E sorcerers than 5E warlocks.
As I have always understood things, wizards and bards gain their arcane powers through long, arduous study, while sorcerers are born with arcane power oozing from their powers and warlocks bribe an otherworldly entity into giving the warlock arcane power. If you want some other method of explaining things, then devise it yourself.
I last played under 3.5 and I don't recall any warlocks, so they are a "new" class for me.
But I disagree with the shortcut philosophy. I would say that Shortcut is for the vast majority, but not all. I am thinking that the warlock I am creating is nothing more then the result of a bet between Randolph and Mortimer Duke concerning nature vs. nurture.
Not all patrons from what I gather are evil so those who would be good would have no use for a soul either.
I do agree a Patron would have a use for their "client" which seems to be missing from a lot of players.
Most Patrons have aims and goals that are frequently beyond the ability of mortals to perceive them. True, a good aligned Patron such as a deva, planetar or ki-rin would not accept a soul as payment BUT they might impose a GEAS upon the warlock to ensure that the warlock fulfills his or her end of the bargain. An Archfey Patron might so bedazzle the warlock that the warlock does anything just to be permitted to continue to gaze at the beautiful Patron. A Great Old One might well enmesh the warlock in such a vast web of illusions that the warlock may be deceived into thinking he is doing good deeds when he is actually committing heinous acts.
As this thread has returned from the grave I decided to dig out my old 3.5e books and found the description of Warlock as it was written then, I'll pop it in a spoiler to minimize the space required but it is quite interesting to compare it to the current version:
That was in the players handbook? People could become one? I still don't remember having a choice to be a warlock, but it could be I was to into fighters back then.
The 3.5e warlock was in a book called "Complete Arcane" published approx 2004, it also features as the character Ammon Jerro in the Neverwinter Nights 2 video game, link to the wiki about him here for anyone interested: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ammon_Jerro
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
Seems to have more in common with 5E sorcerers than 5E warlocks.
As I have always understood things, wizards and bards gain their arcane powers through long, arduous study, while sorcerers are born with arcane power oozing from their powers and warlocks bribe an otherworldly entity into giving the warlock arcane power. If you want some other method of explaining things, then devise it yourself.
I'm not sure where that response is coming from - I read the posted description and there's a LOT there that's similar to the origins of sorcerers in 5E.
That's neither a criticism nor a complaint. It was simply an observation.
Seems to have more in common with 5E sorcerers than 5E warlocks.
As I have always understood things, wizards and bards gain their arcane powers through long, arduous study, while sorcerers are born with arcane power oozing from their powers and warlocks bribe an otherworldly entity into giving the warlock arcane power. If you want some other method of explaining things, then devise it yourself.
I'm not sure where that response is coming from - I read the posted description and there's a LOT there that's similar to the origins of sorcerers in 5E.
That's neither a criticism nor a complaint. It was simply an observation.
Sorcerers and warlocks evolved over the past few decades from the original concept of the wizard in the AD&D edition of this game. Then came the bard, then came the sorcerer and the warlock. How does one differentiate wizard from bard, bard from sorcerer, sorcerer from warlock? How does each class of arcane spellcaster acquire his or her initial arcane power?
Over the many editions of this game, it became clear to me that wizards acquire their arcane power through long hours of study (much like how I acquired my B.A. in mathematics), that bards acquire their arcane power through long hours of musical practice. Sorcerers, on the other hand, are literally born with arcane power oozing from their sweat pores, while warlocks get their arcane power by making a deal with Some Being. If you do not care for this explanation, then devise your own and then explain to Every One Here how (and why) your warlock is not a sorcerer, how (and why) your bard is not a wizard, and how (and why) these four arcane spell casting classes should not be considered to be one and the same.
Thank you both for the explanation. It appears my memory is correct. I left D&D coincidently before Katrina landed, so never would have picked up any books from 2004. Warlocks were not in the core 3.5 PHB so where not available to be played in my sphere of players, basically no internet or video games. There is so much published outside of official core rules that supplemental books are really intro to the next edition.
Thank you both for the explanation. It appears my memory is correct. I left D&D coincidently before Katrina landed, so never would have picked up any books from 2004. Warlocks were not in the core 3.5 PHB so where not available to be played in my sphere of players, basically no internet or video games. There is so much published outside of official core rules that supplemental books are really intro to the next edition.
Warlocks, I believe, first appeared in the Complete Arcane supplement to 3.5 edition more or less as disgusting devil aligned spellcaster. They became somewhat more mainstream with the 4.0 edition, with better definition in 5.0 and 5.5 editions. If you select a warlock as your character, you need to be very careful which Otherworldly Being you choose to serve, some of the Otherworldly Beings are accepting of the deities while other Such Beings ARE NOT. Celestial beings (deva, solar, planetar, ki-rin) are accepting of the good aligned deities, for example.
Thank you both for the explanation. It appears my memory is correct. I left D&D coincidently before Katrina landed, so never would have picked up any books from 2004. Warlocks were not in the core 3.5 PHB so where not available to be played in my sphere of players, basically no internet or video games. There is so much published outside of official core rules that supplemental books are really intro to the next edition.
Warlocks, I believe, first appeared in the Complete Arcane supplement to 3.5 edition more or less as disgusting devil aligned spellcaster. They became somewhat more mainstream with the 4.0 edition, with better definition in 5.0 and 5.5 editions. If you select a warlock as your character, you need to be very careful which Otherworldly Being you choose to serve, some of the Otherworldly Beings are accepting of the deities while other Such Beings ARE NOT. Celestial beings (deva, solar, planetar, ki-rin) are accepting of the good aligned deities, for example.
Even earlier than that, 2e kit from complete wizard had it. It was a wizard who learned its magic from a extraplanar source, they got 0 weapon proficiencies, started with a low end magic item, got some special powers across the levels, and angry mobs might form and chase them out of town or kill them. And there was a witch/warlock class made in dragon magazine at some point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
it was a late game supplement in 3/3.5 era/
Seems to have more in common with 5E sorcerers than 5E warlocks.
As I have always understood things, wizards and bards gain their arcane powers through long, arduous study, while sorcerers are born with arcane power oozing from their powers and warlocks bribe an otherworldly entity into giving the warlock arcane power. If you want some other method of explaining things, then devise it yourself.
Most Patrons have aims and goals that are frequently beyond the ability of mortals to perceive them. True, a good aligned Patron such as a deva, planetar or ki-rin would not accept a soul as payment BUT they might impose a GEAS upon the warlock to ensure that the warlock fulfills his or her end of the bargain. An Archfey Patron might so bedazzle the warlock that the warlock does anything just to be permitted to continue to gaze at the beautiful Patron. A Great Old One might well enmesh the warlock in such a vast web of illusions that the warlock may be deceived into thinking he is doing good deeds when he is actually committing heinous acts.
The 3.5e warlock was in a book called "Complete Arcane" published approx 2004, it also features as the character Ammon Jerro in the Neverwinter Nights 2 video game, link to the wiki about him here for anyone interested: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ammon_Jerro
I'm not sure where that response is coming from - I read the posted description and there's a LOT there that's similar to the origins of sorcerers in 5E.
That's neither a criticism nor a complaint. It was simply an observation.
Sorcerers and warlocks evolved over the past few decades from the original concept of the wizard in the AD&D edition of this game. Then came the bard, then came the sorcerer and the warlock. How does one differentiate wizard from bard, bard from sorcerer, sorcerer from warlock? How does each class of arcane spellcaster acquire his or her initial arcane power?
Over the many editions of this game, it became clear to me that wizards acquire their arcane power through long hours of study (much like how I acquired my B.A. in mathematics), that bards acquire their arcane power through long hours of musical practice. Sorcerers, on the other hand, are literally born with arcane power oozing from their sweat pores, while warlocks get their arcane power by making a deal with Some Being. If you do not care for this explanation, then devise your own and then explain to Every One Here how (and why) your warlock is not a sorcerer, how (and why) your bard is not a wizard, and how (and why) these four arcane spell casting classes should not be considered to be one and the same.
Thank you both for the explanation. It appears my memory is correct. I left D&D coincidently before Katrina landed, so never would have picked up any books from 2004. Warlocks were not in the core 3.5 PHB so where not available to be played in my sphere of players, basically no internet or video games. There is so much published outside of official core rules that supplemental books are really intro to the next edition.
Warlocks, I believe, first appeared in the Complete Arcane supplement to 3.5 edition more or less as disgusting devil aligned spellcaster. They became somewhat more mainstream with the 4.0 edition, with better definition in 5.0 and 5.5 editions. If you select a warlock as your character, you need to be very careful which Otherworldly Being you choose to serve, some of the Otherworldly Beings are accepting of the deities while other Such Beings ARE NOT. Celestial beings (deva, solar, planetar, ki-rin) are accepting of the good aligned deities, for example.
Even earlier than that, 2e kit from complete wizard had it. It was a wizard who learned its magic from a extraplanar source, they got 0 weapon proficiencies, started with a low end magic item, got some special powers across the levels, and angry mobs might form and chase them out of town or kill them. And there was a witch/warlock class made in dragon magazine at some point.