I posted a while back for help with my first warlock. It was great help. Picking invocations and spells has been tricky. I'll give a quick look at what I have and what I have found to be less useful. Please make recommendations on going forward. This is a one off Curse of Straud campaign. Probably won't take him further so maybe we will hit lvl 9? I am a sword and board fighter primarily. In a party with a forge cleric and fighter specializing in archery (not really sure what subclass).
Character is on Fantasy grounds and I can't look him up atm, so I may have a few mistakes.
Hexblade Warlock, just hit 6...haven't leveled up yet
Fallen Assimar
Str9, Dex 14, Con 16, Wis 12, Int 8, Cha16
Mainly using a shield and Blood Spear which gives me temp hp when I kill something with it so melee is preferable.
Invocations: IPW, Thirsting Blade and Tomb of Lev (switched from devil's sight since the darkness combo was not really working for the team)
Feat/ASI:Warcaster
Cantrips: E.Blast, Booming Blade (for those Warcaster opp attacks, we get a lot) and Prestidigitation (comes in handy with Intimidation checks and I always need to look my best)
1st LvL: Armor of Agathys, retrained any others
2nd Lvl: Misty Step, Shatter, Hold Person (I have yet to use this....may retrain)
3rd Lvl: Spirit Shroud (dropped hex for this/great for radiant damage regeneration penalty), Counterspell (someone had to have it)
Missing one spell...can't remember right now (obviously not a good one..lol)
Dilemas:
Hold person seems a waste especially in Straud with (I am assuming) many enemies having high Wis saves. I have a bard alt and Wis save vs suck spells...well suck with more powerful enemies (even with a 20 cha). I will take CHA ASI's at 8 to get a +4 instead of +3 bonus but that's a ways off. Looking for an AOE spell but I see Hypnotic pattern having the same issue and Hunger of Hadar seems to have the same issue as darkness.
What spells do you find yourself relying on. I don't have any smites but since I am sword and board that seems less useful. I could go defensive with Intellect fortress but it is concentration
I am using E. Blast more than I thought I would while enemies close range (still not as much as melee by a long shot...usually one or two rds per encounter)..would Agonizing blast extra +6 damage be worth losing the "save my ass" Tomb of Lev?
So what would you do at 6 with a new spell. And what would you change?
Bring it on! I can take the criticism and critique!
I'd drop tomb of levistus, and retrain into eldritch smite. Tomb of levistus is going to be really, really niche in use. On paper, I like it. Having played a warlock for 7 levels now, I've never missed not having it.
for spells, I am likely dropping shatter. It doesn't really upcast well, and I feel that smiting in melee is a better use of your spellslots generally. Hold Person synergizes well with smites too. Hold person will give you advantage, and if you manage to hit while hold person is active, you automatically crit. Dropping a 3rd level eldritch smite when you crit is going to give you one heck of a nova round. Of course you have to stick hold person to guarantee the crit. I'd look at potentially dropping something for Mind Sliver to help stick control spells, but I'm not sure I am willing to give up any of the cantrips you already have.
maybe you can get your cleric buddy to hold person /for/ you. you mind sliver to lower enemy resist, he holds person, and on your next turn you auto-crit and burn a 3rd level slot to smite for an extra 8d8 force damage. with thirsting blade you can potentially do this twice in one round, assuming you have both of your pact slots.
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I like that. Bad part is if I hold person and smite, that is it for the combat. I appreciate the input on Tomb and that makes sense to drop. That's what I am looking for. Real world advice on what looks good but gets no use. I looked at mind sliver. The only home-brew thing I am looking at is to see if my DM will give me E Blast as a warlock power which frees up a cantrip.
That's it for spell slots, for certain. You'd still have your standard blade lock things going on. My perspective on that is a bit twisted, as I have ended up as the party's primary healer as a celestial warlock...my spell slots generally get burned in ways I did not anticipate when I built the character. Next time I will build fiend, and let other people worry about the support.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The benefit to Hex is it’s duration. It’s a concentration spell and you can concentrate on it for 8 hours. That lets it last through a couple of combats and short rests. You can cast it during combat, end the combat with 0 spell slots, take a short rest, and then start your next combat with Hex and two spell slots.
Even though Shatter doesn’t scale very well it’s your only Area of Affect spell that does damage.
One thing about Warlocks. You’re not primarily a spell caster so you’re going to be using Cantrips and weapon attacks most of the time. Since you have so few spell slots you can take spells that are situational and use them when the situation is right. Sure, you won’t use Hold Person very often, but you won’t use any spells very often. The two or three times you use it you can target multiple opponents and it will be far more effective than it looks on the surface because the chance of the DM failing at least one saving throw is pretty high.
Good point on spell situationality (is that a word?). That makes a lot of sense. As far as Hex goes, in this campaign I feel that radiant damage from Spirit Shroud will help over the necrotic damage from Hex. That's why I dropped Hex. Also keeping concentration for 8 hours is pretty tough. Our DM moves enemies around a lot an sometimes the Hex enemy moves away from me or I hex an enemy that needs to fail ability checks so I am not getting the extra damage. Maybe I am not using it right but it really never seemed that useful IRL.
Good point on Shatter. I think I will keep Hold Person for those situations and maybe Shatter. Thunderstep looks good at least for the next few levels at least. Maybe retrain Misty Step but I do like having that as a bonus action. Thanks for all the help so far.
The benefit of Hexs duration on a warlock isn't actually keeping it going for 8 hours, as there will be plenty of times you cast another spell that requires it thereby dropping hex. Its that it works incredibly well with a locks short rest mechanic, take the last watch, while people are getting ready and eating breakfast, cast hex on a bug, kill it, take a short rest, you now have it up and going for "8 hours", maybe it only lasts through 1/2 of the first fight, but it cost you nothing. The same at every planned short rest from there on, if you have a slot ready, cast hex, kill bug, take short rest. 0 cost decent spell going.
Sure, I guess it is like a cantrip at that point. If I don't cast another spell then it is free use. aagh too many possibilities. My higher level bard is easier to play than this. I guess that's what makes it fun but so many action economy issues.
The benefit to Hex is it’s duration. It’s a concentration spell and you can concentrate on it for 8 hours. That lets it last through a couple of combats and short rests. You can cast it during combat, end the combat with 0 spell slots, take a short rest, and then start your next combat with Hex and two spell slots.
Even though Shatter doesn’t scale very well it’s your only Area of Affect spell that does damage.
One thing about Warlocks. You’re not primarily a spell caster so you’re going to be using Cantrips and weapon attacks most of the time. Since you have so few spell slots you can take spells that are situational and use them when the situation is right. Sure, you won’t use Hold Person very often, but you won’t use any spells very often. The two or three times you use it you can target multiple opponents and it will be far more effective than it looks on the surface because the chance of the DM failing at least one saving throw is pretty high.
As a melee warlock, hex is a really iffy pick since he will be getting hit regularly. I wouldn't take it.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I like taking Agonizing Blast over Tomb of Levistus. Same opinion on Tomb as crzyhawk, and Eldritch Smite is certainly good, but I really value good switch-hitting. Considering the party composition, you all could easily post up, pelting with cantrips, spells and arrows and force enemies to you, even backpedaling when applicable. It's a simple, but effective tactic. Making yourself deadlier at range makes it harder for enemies to stay at range and try to trade blows that way. Obviously this will not solve everything. The DM will make you work. But it's a strong thing for the group to have in their back pocket. Also, you're the only arcane caster on a small, 3 person squad. The burst power of smite may be a burden to use as much as a boon.
If concentration on hex for a melee warlock is a problem, isn't the same true for spirit shroud?
I think if you end up picking agonizing blast, hex is a better pick than spirit shroud. Honestly I think it is regardless. Hex being workable with your ranged routine, which you've stated is a regular part of combat for you, is important. The longevity stuff discussed is good too, even if you're less likely to keep concentration as a primarily melee unit. Warcaster and your +3 does help a lot on that front.
I agree with the posts regarding Tomb of Levistus. Still on the fence with E Smite or Agonizing Blast. Blast would give me consistent damage and Smite would be a big move but very situational. Saving it for the big baddies in CoS.
Two issues with Hex vs Spirit Shroud. These reasons are very party/campaign specific so take this with a grain of salt. While Hex would give me damage with Eldritch Blast, it is one enemy. Spirit Shroud is any enemy. Sometimes the one I Hex (especially early to be able to use ranged) is not the one I end up facing. The ability check disadvantage, in my party, doesn't really help me but one of my allies/NPC who can knock enemies prone. But I don't get any attacks against him. Spirit Shroud is against any enemies within 5 ft, which is my melee range and good for opportunity attacks, which we get a lot.
The last reason is purely based on Curse of Straud. The radiant damage. Last game we thought we could all stake 5 vampires simultaneously when we opened the crates they were "sleeping" in (we have an NPC) leaving one vampire. Figured we could take one on, not 5. Well...when we found out as soon as one is opened they all jump out. Good party kill encounter. But...with Spirit Shroud and the Cleric's Spirit Guardian spell's radiant damage we were able to stop most of their regeneration. Luckily we were in tight quarters where we were able to bunch them up and kill them all. This is why I will keep Spirit Shroud as a priority.
Edit: I have decided to go with Agonizing Blast and see how that works. I may then pick up Eldritch Smite as my next invocation. I want to keep a spell slot active. Hopefully when/if we survive to fight more powerful enemies I will be high enough level to get that. Looking at picking up Major Image and retraining Shatter back to Hex. Next level if I find Hex isn't worth it I may do as suggested earlier and look at Thunder Step. Thanks for all the help.
I totally understand why you would be frustrated with hex and pick shroud over it. I'm curious how that balances out once you have experience with a more powerful eldritch blast at your fingertips since the first issue is much less problematic at range. Either way, that radiant damage type is excellent for your campaign, and spirit shroud will always be a solid contributor. Good luck and have fun, glad to have been able to be a part of the help.
Playing a Hexblade, about to reach level 10, and I would 100% agree that Spirit Shroud is better than Hex (especially once you hit level 9, and it starts adding 2D8 to every attack).
Canceling regen is just gravy; that damage boost is huge. Especially if you've got some method of spamming attacks, like taking Polearm Master for bonus-action attacks and frequent opportunity attacks -- all that damage adds up fast!
I took Tomb of Levistus, but still haven't used it (there have been some key moments when it would've been awesome, to tank a massive-damage trap but I forgot about it entirely). I'm not as keen on Eldritch Smite; with so few spell slots, there aren't usually enough to spare. I may rethink this at level 11 though. If you do go with Eldritch Smite, I'd generally recommend either saving it for critical hits or for when you really need to prone an enemy.
Just for some anecdotal evidence in support of Tomb of Levistus - I'm a level 8 Hexblade (Warlock 7 Wizard 1) right now, and Tomb has been very useful a number of times. I use it to take the most aggressive position on the battlefield, drawing as much attention towards me as I can while my other party members thin the numbers in relative safety. If I bite off more than I can chew, I can tomb up to survive an extra turn and my party can usually adapt and send a bit more help my way. I generally end up using it just shy of once per long rest, and I've had a few occasions where it has extremely impactful.
It also has uses outside of combat. I've survived a deadly rolling boulder trap thanks to it. You can also use it to survive fall damage from any height.
I think its probably less useful on certain builds and in certain party comps. I don't think its worth a slot on a ranged warlock. It also kills your concentration, so that needs to be kept in mind. But I think it definitely is a worthwhile invocation to grab, especially on a melee warlock.
Thanks for the replies. The game has been on hiatus due to DM health issues but looks like it will be back on track soon. I'll post on my observations after a few sessions.
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I posted a while back for help with my first warlock. It was great help. Picking invocations and spells has been tricky. I'll give a quick look at what I have and what I have found to be less useful. Please make recommendations on going forward. This is a one off Curse of Straud campaign. Probably won't take him further so maybe we will hit lvl 9? I am a sword and board fighter primarily. In a party with a forge cleric and fighter specializing in archery (not really sure what subclass).
Character is on Fantasy grounds and I can't look him up atm, so I may have a few mistakes.
Hexblade Warlock, just hit 6...haven't leveled up yet
Fallen Assimar
Str9, Dex 14, Con 16, Wis 12, Int 8, Cha16
Mainly using a shield and Blood Spear which gives me temp hp when I kill something with it so melee is preferable.
Invocations: IPW, Thirsting Blade and Tomb of Lev (switched from devil's sight since the darkness combo was not really working for the team)
Feat/ASI:Warcaster
Cantrips: E.Blast, Booming Blade (for those Warcaster opp attacks, we get a lot) and Prestidigitation (comes in handy with Intimidation checks and I always need to look my best)
1st LvL: Armor of Agathys, retrained any others
2nd Lvl: Misty Step, Shatter, Hold Person (I have yet to use this....may retrain)
3rd Lvl: Spirit Shroud (dropped hex for this/great for radiant damage regeneration penalty), Counterspell (someone had to have it)
Missing one spell...can't remember right now (obviously not a good one..lol)
Dilemas:
Hold person seems a waste especially in Straud with (I am assuming) many enemies having high Wis saves. I have a bard alt and Wis save vs suck spells...well suck with more powerful enemies (even with a 20 cha). I will take CHA ASI's at 8 to get a +4 instead of +3 bonus but that's a ways off. Looking for an AOE spell but I see Hypnotic pattern having the same issue and Hunger of Hadar seems to have the same issue as darkness.
What spells do you find yourself relying on. I don't have any smites but since I am sword and board that seems less useful. I could go defensive with Intellect fortress but it is concentration
I am using E. Blast more than I thought I would while enemies close range (still not as much as melee by a long shot...usually one or two rds per encounter)..would Agonizing blast extra +6 damage be worth losing the "save my ass" Tomb of Lev?
So what would you do at 6 with a new spell. And what would you change?
Bring it on! I can take the criticism and critique!
If you are wanting a decent Utility/AoE, I’d suggest the 3rd level spell [Spell/Thunder Step[/Spell].
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I had not considered that. Not sure why but I'll take a closer look. Thanks
I'd drop tomb of levistus, and retrain into eldritch smite. Tomb of levistus is going to be really, really niche in use. On paper, I like it. Having played a warlock for 7 levels now, I've never missed not having it.
for spells, I am likely dropping shatter. It doesn't really upcast well, and I feel that smiting in melee is a better use of your spellslots generally. Hold Person synergizes well with smites too. Hold person will give you advantage, and if you manage to hit while hold person is active, you automatically crit. Dropping a 3rd level eldritch smite when you crit is going to give you one heck of a nova round. Of course you have to stick hold person to guarantee the crit. I'd look at potentially dropping something for Mind Sliver to help stick control spells, but I'm not sure I am willing to give up any of the cantrips you already have.
maybe you can get your cleric buddy to hold person /for/ you. you mind sliver to lower enemy resist, he holds person, and on your next turn you auto-crit and burn a 3rd level slot to smite for an extra 8d8 force damage. with thirsting blade you can potentially do this twice in one round, assuming you have both of your pact slots.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I like that. Bad part is if I hold person and smite, that is it for the combat. I appreciate the input on Tomb and that makes sense to drop. That's what I am looking for. Real world advice on what looks good but gets no use. I looked at mind sliver. The only home-brew thing I am looking at is to see if my DM will give me E Blast as a warlock power which frees up a cantrip.
My bard reeeaaalllyy wants minds sliver....sigh.
That's it for spell slots, for certain. You'd still have your standard blade lock things going on. My perspective on that is a bit twisted, as I have ended up as the party's primary healer as a celestial warlock...my spell slots generally get burned in ways I did not anticipate when I built the character. Next time I will build fiend, and let other people worry about the support.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The benefit to Hex is it’s duration. It’s a concentration spell and you can concentrate on it for 8 hours. That lets it last through a couple of combats and short rests. You can cast it during combat, end the combat with 0 spell slots, take a short rest, and then start your next combat with Hex and two spell slots.
Even though Shatter doesn’t scale very well it’s your only Area of Affect spell that does damage.
One thing about Warlocks. You’re not primarily a spell caster so you’re going to be using Cantrips and weapon attacks most of the time. Since you have so few spell slots you can take spells that are situational and use them when the situation is right. Sure, you won’t use Hold Person very often, but you won’t use any spells very often. The two or three times you use it you can target multiple opponents and it will be far more effective than it looks on the surface because the chance of the DM failing at least one saving throw is pretty high.
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Good point on spell situationality (is that a word?). That makes a lot of sense. As far as Hex goes, in this campaign I feel that radiant damage from Spirit Shroud will help over the necrotic damage from Hex. That's why I dropped Hex. Also keeping concentration for 8 hours is pretty tough. Our DM moves enemies around a lot an sometimes the Hex enemy moves away from me or I hex an enemy that needs to fail ability checks so I am not getting the extra damage. Maybe I am not using it right but it really never seemed that useful IRL.
Good point on Shatter. I think I will keep Hold Person for those situations and maybe Shatter. Thunderstep looks good at least for the next few levels at least. Maybe retrain Misty Step but I do like having that as a bonus action. Thanks for all the help so far.
The benefit of Hexs duration on a warlock isn't actually keeping it going for 8 hours, as there will be plenty of times you cast another spell that requires it thereby dropping hex. Its that it works incredibly well with a locks short rest mechanic, take the last watch, while people are getting ready and eating breakfast, cast hex on a bug, kill it, take a short rest, you now have it up and going for "8 hours", maybe it only lasts through 1/2 of the first fight, but it cost you nothing. The same at every planned short rest from there on, if you have a slot ready, cast hex, kill bug, take short rest. 0 cost decent spell going.
Sure, I guess it is like a cantrip at that point. If I don't cast another spell then it is free use. aagh too many possibilities. My higher level bard is easier to play than this. I guess that's what makes it fun but so many action economy issues.
As a melee warlock, hex is a really iffy pick since he will be getting hit regularly. I wouldn't take it.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I like taking Agonizing Blast over Tomb of Levistus. Same opinion on Tomb as crzyhawk, and Eldritch Smite is certainly good, but I really value good switch-hitting. Considering the party composition, you all could easily post up, pelting with cantrips, spells and arrows and force enemies to you, even backpedaling when applicable. It's a simple, but effective tactic. Making yourself deadlier at range makes it harder for enemies to stay at range and try to trade blows that way. Obviously this will not solve everything. The DM will make you work. But it's a strong thing for the group to have in their back pocket. Also, you're the only arcane caster on a small, 3 person squad. The burst power of smite may be a burden to use as much as a boon.
If concentration on hex for a melee warlock is a problem, isn't the same true for spirit shroud?
I think if you end up picking agonizing blast, hex is a better pick than spirit shroud. Honestly I think it is regardless. Hex being workable with your ranged routine, which you've stated is a regular part of combat for you, is important. The longevity stuff discussed is good too, even if you're less likely to keep concentration as a primarily melee unit. Warcaster and your +3 does help a lot on that front.
I agree with the posts regarding Tomb of Levistus. Still on the fence with E Smite or Agonizing Blast. Blast would give me consistent damage and Smite would be a big move but very situational. Saving it for the big baddies in CoS.
Two issues with Hex vs Spirit Shroud. These reasons are very party/campaign specific so take this with a grain of salt. While Hex would give me damage with Eldritch Blast, it is one enemy. Spirit Shroud is any enemy. Sometimes the one I Hex (especially early to be able to use ranged) is not the one I end up facing. The ability check disadvantage, in my party, doesn't really help me but one of my allies/NPC who can knock enemies prone. But I don't get any attacks against him. Spirit Shroud is against any enemies within 5 ft, which is my melee range and good for opportunity attacks, which we get a lot.
The last reason is purely based on Curse of Straud. The radiant damage. Last game we thought we could all stake 5 vampires simultaneously when we opened the crates they were "sleeping" in (we have an NPC) leaving one vampire. Figured we could take one on, not 5. Well...when we found out as soon as one is opened they all jump out. Good party kill encounter. But...with Spirit Shroud and the Cleric's Spirit Guardian spell's radiant damage we were able to stop most of their regeneration. Luckily we were in tight quarters where we were able to bunch them up and kill them all. This is why I will keep Spirit Shroud as a priority.
Edit: I have decided to go with Agonizing Blast and see how that works. I may then pick up Eldritch Smite as my next invocation. I want to keep a spell slot active. Hopefully when/if we survive to fight more powerful enemies I will be high enough level to get that. Looking at picking up Major Image and retraining Shatter back to Hex. Next level if I find Hex isn't worth it I may do as suggested earlier and look at Thunder Step. Thanks for all the help.
I totally understand why you would be frustrated with hex and pick shroud over it. I'm curious how that balances out once you have experience with a more powerful eldritch blast at your fingertips since the first issue is much less problematic at range. Either way, that radiant damage type is excellent for your campaign, and spirit shroud will always be a solid contributor. Good luck and have fun, glad to have been able to be a part of the help.
I'll definitely post feedback after a few games. We play once a week online so I'll post in a few weeks. Thanks for all the help here.
Playing a Hexblade, about to reach level 10, and I would 100% agree that Spirit Shroud is better than Hex (especially once you hit level 9, and it starts adding 2D8 to every attack).
Canceling regen is just gravy; that damage boost is huge. Especially if you've got some method of spamming attacks, like taking Polearm Master for bonus-action attacks and frequent opportunity attacks -- all that damage adds up fast!
I took Tomb of Levistus, but still haven't used it (there have been some key moments when it would've been awesome, to tank a massive-damage trap but I forgot about it entirely). I'm not as keen on Eldritch Smite; with so few spell slots, there aren't usually enough to spare. I may rethink this at level 11 though. If you do go with Eldritch Smite, I'd generally recommend either saving it for critical hits or for when you really need to prone an enemy.
Just for some anecdotal evidence in support of Tomb of Levistus - I'm a level 8 Hexblade (Warlock 7 Wizard 1) right now, and Tomb has been very useful a number of times. I use it to take the most aggressive position on the battlefield, drawing as much attention towards me as I can while my other party members thin the numbers in relative safety. If I bite off more than I can chew, I can tomb up to survive an extra turn and my party can usually adapt and send a bit more help my way. I generally end up using it just shy of once per long rest, and I've had a few occasions where it has extremely impactful.
It also has uses outside of combat. I've survived a deadly rolling boulder trap thanks to it. You can also use it to survive fall damage from any height.
I think its probably less useful on certain builds and in certain party comps. I don't think its worth a slot on a ranged warlock. It also kills your concentration, so that needs to be kept in mind. But I think it definitely is a worthwhile invocation to grab, especially on a melee warlock.
Thanks for the replies. The game has been on hiatus due to DM health issues but looks like it will be back on track soon. I'll post on my observations after a few sessions.