So I just got to level 8 as my War Mage, and I have 18INT 14CON and other stats (14DEX I guess is relevant), and am wondering what y'all's opinions on this matter, because I'm torn.
TL;DR Which would you take at level 8? 20INT or Telekinetic?
On one hand we have bumping my INT to 20, and then taking Telekinetic at 12 (DM allows this, just don't get the bonus to INT because max reasons, but I can still use INT for the feat) Positives +Bonus to... LOTS... I've already had a tough time with monsters and baddies saving against some (what feels like most) of my cool or fun debuff spells (and Toll the dead... Which I'm sure has hit... once... I think), so the raw, plus 1 bump to ALL of my Spells DC's and To hits sounds nice and juicy. +Bonus to Initiative. As I said, I'm playing a War Mage, so a bonus to INT gives initiative, which is fun for going earlier in combat. +Bonus to Skills. 3 of them to be exact. History, Arcana, and investigation. I'm the one who finds traps in the group (We have a rogue, they disarm them, I just explain how they work) +Set and forget. It would make INT 20, and I'd be done with it and not have to worry about it Negatives -Thematically? Boring. Oh boy, numbers... Yea, I know I'm playing a math game, and playing the math nerd... but... Yay... Math... -I'd be using a feat later and not getting the full effect of the feat. Sure, the ASI of Telekinetic is the "blah" part of the feat, but not utilizing a feat to it's fullest potential doesn't feel right
Then there's the other hand. Taking Telekinetic now, and bumping my INT to 20 at level 12. + THEMES: Like, now I get to move and bump people around, with my mind, AS A BONUS ACTION? Sign me up! And it gives a cool, psionic flair to my character, how did that happen? + It makes my INT odd: This sounds like strange bonus, but it actually sets up my level 12, and level 16 levels pretty well. Taking ASI bonus to INT/Con at 12, and then Resiliant CON at 16 + Actually gives a use for the bonus action, if I'm not concentrating on a spell to use that (Like minute meteors and storm sphere). Action economy, baby (coming to theaters and HBO max)! Negatives - Not getting 20INT at 8 means more monsters are going to resist MORE things and I'm going to miss more often, including the push/pull the feat gives. As monsters get tougher, my spell save DC did not. - Levels are getting slower. So while these first eight levels were relatively quick, there's going to be more sessions and more encounters before each new level.
So yea, I'm not sure. What do you guys think? I'm leaning more towards Telekinetic just because, thematically, it feels like a fun ability and explores the character in a strange, new way. But the raw bonus of just 20 INT ASAP and not having to really worry about feeling underpowered by mid/late game gets the... well.. gamer in me saying "we need that, we need to optimize! Make it efficient!" And while that's a thing I've been trying to keep in check, and I know the game isn't about being optimized all the time... It is still a game meant for fun, and playing the most optimized way IS fun for me. I'm kinda afraid that I'll take the feat and go "Man... if only I had +8 to hit, rather than +7"
Not only for spell attack and save DCs, but the additional spell prepared is quite good since you are now having a lot of amazing options between spell lvls 3 and 4. Also as a War Mage, it will bump your initiative, which is great as well.
If you're looking for interesting and making the most use out of your turn, take the Telekinetic feat. If you're looking for sheer power, simply get the stat increase.
You should grab telekinesis if you're built around Booming Blade, and as a War Mage, you should not be built around Booming Blade. So go for 20 Int.
Bladesinger has made me wish more than ever that we had a finesse blunt weapon. Crusher solves *so many* problems...
Two ways around this, if you so choose... From what I'm reading, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the Bladesinging school doesn't REQUIRE dexterity/finesse weapons. You could build a beefy, strength wizard, and go around bladesinging with a warhammer or flail, if you so chose. Gives a much different vibe, as the blade song and dance are less graceful and more powerful in theme... But that doesn't help a character you've maybe already built and are playing.
To which there's always a 1 level dip into monk. It's thematic, it gives you the ability to use "monk weapons" with dexterity, allowing the use of clubs and quarter staves as blunt weapons, and with a decent enough wisdom, you don't even need armor, since you get that via the monk level as well! You might even be able to use your unarmed attacks for your blade singing things... maybe... Don't know about that, but it would be cool.
And, if all else fails... Talk with your DM? See if there isn't some kind of real life example of a finesse type, one handed blunt weapon? I dunno.
As for the original take on this thread... From the votes, I might just do Telekinetic? Since it seems to be only two votes off? I'm still a bit torn. Luckilly, I have a week or two until I have to solidify my decision. I Understand the power behind the 20int, but one has to play for the fun of it, and just pushing and shoving things around seems neat. Would have loved to hear more from those who voted for it, as I'm seeing a lot of good reasons for the bump to intelligence but nothing for the feat. I guess this is a "no wrong answer" kind of question, though.
As a fellow War Wizard, I’m in a similar scenario myself. I’m planning on taking the telekinetic feat.
There are spells that you can make use of that have ongoing effects like you’ve mentioned, such as melfs and storm sphere. Those two utilize your bonus action already, and free up your action for continued use of cantrips or other leveled spells. There are other spell options that you can make use of that would provide similar benefits.
One of my go to spells is wall of fire. Wall of fire only has one saving throw when it first appears. All other damage rolls happen with no save. The push from telekinetic may be used to push a creature back into the wall after they’ve escaped. The push would also be available to try and push an enemie into a spirit guardians that the cleric might have up. The push is only 5 feet, but it can be used to push away or pull toward you.
the telekinetic push effect is also one of the few save effects in the game that allows for the target to willingly fail, so this means you can target an Ally to move them away from sources of danger. This can be to force them out of a grapple, just to allow them to be out of opportunity attack range, or even just to momentarily move the party members who seems to always be in the way for your AOEs.
notice that there is no size limitation pertaining to the target creature. You can technically push or pull any creature 5ft as long as they fail the save or are willing.
Using your telekinetic push/pull to proc an ongoing spell effect is a way to eventually funnel your power surges into one creature multiple times in a round. Power Surge is once per turn, not once per your turn. So you can cause a creature to take damage on your turn with a wall of fire, then pull them out of the wall. Your ally can knock them back in with some sort of feature, possibly even just a shove, this would proc wall of fire again. Both of those damage instances would be valid instances to use power surge since it’s on different turns. If your ally actually pushed the. Further than 5ft, then the creature also has to decide to either walk out the wall on their turn or stay in the ring of fire, either way they take the damage again for another possible power surge.
I recommend having a conversation about what happens if you target yourself though. The feature description states you can target one creature you can see within 30ft, which you qualify as unless your invisible. so, you can target yourself, but how can you actually be pushed away or toward yourself? I think it needs to be errata’d.
If youre worried about optimization then go with the INT bump, if youre more into the character and his story and its advancement then go with the feat. At the end of the day what matters is how you want to play your character and whats most important to you.
I recommend having a conversation about what happens if you target yourself though. The feature description states you can target one creature you can see within 30ft, which you qualify as unless your invisible. so, you can target yourself, but how can you actually be pushed away or toward yourself? I think it needs to be errata’d.
I'd think the implication is, you can't use it on yourself, since there is no way to move "toward yourself" or "away from yourself." That seems to be both the explicit raw meaning of the text, and the RAI.
I recommend having a conversation about what happens if you target yourself though. The feature description states you can target one creature you can see within 30ft, which you qualify as unless your invisible. so, you can target yourself, but how can you actually be pushed away or toward yourself? I think it needs to be errata’d.
I'd think the implication is, you can't use it on yourself, since there is no way to move "toward yourself" or "away from yourself." That seems to be both the explicit raw meaning of the text, and the RAI.
Your DM may rule differently, of course.
Well, that’s definitely one of the options.
the fact that you can target yourself means you can “use it on yourself”. The conversation is what happens if you choose to do so. I don’t know what the RAI is. I’m not even sure what the RAW is either for targeting yourself.
this is probably another example of poorly written game features that have been popping up in UA that aren’t being changed.
the game already has features that use standardized language to represent what the designers were going for. the game editors seem to be either prioritizing features being written differently to falsely represent depth between features or are horrible and aren’t actually editing anything.
every one of these threads and posts were brought up already on Twitter, these forums, other forums, and the surveys.
it’s up to the DM to rule at the table, but it’s the company’s fault for leaving such an obvious gray area in a player feature in the first place.
mall they had to do was limit the targeting to “other creatures”...if that was indeed the intent.
Beg your DM to allow a slight rebuild, start with 17 int. It's not worth it just for the feature alone. When my wizard took telekinetic, it made sense from a mathematical point because he already had 17 int to start, it bumped up his main stat at lvl 4. At that point very few things competed for my bonus action, and it synergized with bladesinger and booming blade-- it was free decent sustainable damage.
But at lvl 8, lots can compete for that bonus action, especially if you're using animate objects next lvl. It's just not that useful then, so I'm going to say bump up int all the way, unless you can convince your DM to rebuild, so you can have both 20 int and telekinetic.
As for the original take on this thread... From the votes, I might just do Telekinetic? Since it seems to be only two votes off? I'm still a bit torn. Luckilly, I have a week or two until I have to solidify my decision. I Understand the power behind the 20int, but one has to play for the fun of it, and just pushing and shoving things around seems neat. Would have loved to hear more from those who voted for it, as I'm seeing a lot of good reasons for the bump to intelligence but nothing for the feat. I guess this is a "no wrong answer" kind of question, though.
You've probably already chosen what to go with (if so, which was it, if you don't mind?) but if not, I think you'd probably just have more fun going with Telekinetic.
This also gives you an interesting choice of options for your next ASI. You could split your bonuses (+1 to CHA, +1 elsewhere,) or go for yet another feat that adds +1 to your CHA... at which point, you'd have the +2 to CHA and two other feat effects as well.
So I just got to level 8 as my War Mage, and I have 18INT 14CON and other stats (14DEX I guess is relevant), and am wondering what y'all's opinions on this matter, because I'm torn.
TL;DR Which would you take at level 8? 20INT or Telekinetic?
On one hand we have bumping my INT to 20, and then taking Telekinetic at 12 (DM allows this, just don't get the bonus to INT because max reasons, but I can still use INT for the feat)
Positives
+Bonus to... LOTS... I've already had a tough time with monsters and baddies saving against some (what feels like most) of my cool or fun debuff spells (and Toll the dead... Which I'm sure has hit... once... I think), so the raw, plus 1 bump to ALL of my Spells DC's and To hits sounds nice and juicy.
+Bonus to Initiative. As I said, I'm playing a War Mage, so a bonus to INT gives initiative, which is fun for going earlier in combat.
+Bonus to Skills. 3 of them to be exact. History, Arcana, and investigation. I'm the one who finds traps in the group (We have a rogue, they disarm them, I just explain how they work)
+Set and forget. It would make INT 20, and I'd be done with it and not have to worry about it
Negatives
-Thematically? Boring. Oh boy, numbers... Yea, I know I'm playing a math game, and playing the math nerd... but... Yay... Math...
-I'd be using a feat later and not getting the full effect of the feat. Sure, the ASI of Telekinetic is the "blah" part of the feat, but not utilizing a feat to it's fullest potential doesn't feel right
Then there's the other hand. Taking Telekinetic now, and bumping my INT to 20 at level 12.
+ THEMES: Like, now I get to move and bump people around, with my mind, AS A BONUS ACTION? Sign me up! And it gives a cool, psionic flair to my character, how did that happen?
+ It makes my INT odd: This sounds like strange bonus, but it actually sets up my level 12, and level 16 levels pretty well. Taking ASI bonus to INT/Con at 12, and then Resiliant CON at 16
+ Actually gives a use for the bonus action, if I'm not concentrating on a spell to use that (Like minute meteors and storm sphere). Action economy, baby (coming to theaters and HBO max)!
Negatives
- Not getting 20INT at 8 means more monsters are going to resist MORE things and I'm going to miss more often, including the push/pull the feat gives. As monsters get tougher, my spell save DC did not.
- Levels are getting slower. So while these first eight levels were relatively quick, there's going to be more sessions and more encounters before each new level.
So yea, I'm not sure. What do you guys think? I'm leaning more towards Telekinetic just because, thematically, it feels like a fun ability and explores the character in a strange, new way. But the raw bonus of just 20 INT ASAP and not having to really worry about feeling underpowered by mid/late game gets the... well.. gamer in me saying "we need that, we need to optimize! Make it efficient!" And while that's a thing I've been trying to keep in check, and I know the game isn't about being optimized all the time... It is still a game meant for fun, and playing the most optimized way IS fun for me. I'm kinda afraid that I'll take the feat and go "Man... if only I had +8 to hit, rather than +7"
Not only for spell attack and save DCs, but the additional spell prepared is quite good since you are now having a lot of amazing options between spell lvls 3 and 4. Also as a War Mage, it will bump your initiative, which is great as well.
If you're looking for interesting and making the most use out of your turn, take the Telekinetic feat. If you're looking for sheer power, simply get the stat increase.
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You should grab telekinesis if you're built around Booming Blade, and as a War Mage, you should not be built around Booming Blade. So go for 20 Int.
Bladesinger has made me wish more than ever that we had a finesse blunt weapon. Crusher solves *so many* problems...
Two ways around this, if you so choose... From what I'm reading, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the Bladesinging school doesn't REQUIRE dexterity/finesse weapons. You could build a beefy, strength wizard, and go around bladesinging with a warhammer or flail, if you so chose. Gives a much different vibe, as the blade song and dance are less graceful and more powerful in theme... But that doesn't help a character you've maybe already built and are playing.
To which there's always a 1 level dip into monk. It's thematic, it gives you the ability to use "monk weapons" with dexterity, allowing the use of clubs and quarter staves as blunt weapons, and with a decent enough wisdom, you don't even need armor, since you get that via the monk level as well! You might even be able to use your unarmed attacks for your blade singing things... maybe... Don't know about that, but it would be cool.
And, if all else fails... Talk with your DM? See if there isn't some kind of real life example of a finesse type, one handed blunt weapon? I dunno.
As for the original take on this thread... From the votes, I might just do Telekinetic? Since it seems to be only two votes off? I'm still a bit torn. Luckilly, I have a week or two until I have to solidify my decision. I Understand the power behind the 20int, but one has to play for the fun of it, and just pushing and shoving things around seems neat. Would have loved to hear more from those who voted for it, as I'm seeing a lot of good reasons for the bump to intelligence but nothing for the feat. I guess this is a "no wrong answer" kind of question, though.
As a fellow War Wizard, I’m in a similar scenario myself. I’m planning on taking the telekinetic feat.
There are spells that you can make use of that have ongoing effects like you’ve mentioned, such as melfs and storm sphere. Those two utilize your bonus action already, and free up your action for continued use of cantrips or other leveled spells. There are other spell options that you can make use of that would provide similar benefits.
One of my go to spells is wall of fire. Wall of fire only has one saving throw when it first appears. All other damage rolls happen with no save. The push from telekinetic may be used to push a creature back into the wall after they’ve escaped. The push would also be available to try and push an enemie into a spirit guardians that the cleric might have up. The push is only 5 feet, but it can be used to push away or pull toward you.
the telekinetic push effect is also one of the few save effects in the game that allows for the target to willingly fail, so this means you can target an Ally to move them away from sources of danger. This can be to force them out of a grapple, just to allow them to be out of opportunity attack range, or even just to momentarily move the party members who seems to always be in the way for your AOEs.
notice that there is no size limitation pertaining to the target creature. You can technically push or pull any creature 5ft as long as they fail the save or are willing.
Using your telekinetic push/pull to proc an ongoing spell effect is a way to eventually funnel your power surges into one creature multiple times in a round. Power Surge is once per turn, not once per your turn. So you can cause a creature to take damage on your turn with a wall of fire, then pull them out of the wall. Your ally can knock them back in with some sort of feature, possibly even just a shove, this would proc wall of fire again. Both of those damage instances would be valid instances to use power surge since it’s on different turns. If your ally actually pushed the. Further than 5ft, then the creature also has to decide to either walk out the wall on their turn or stay in the ring of fire, either way they take the damage again for another possible power surge.
I recommend having a conversation about what happens if you target yourself though. The feature description states you can target one creature you can see within 30ft, which you qualify as unless your invisible. so, you can target yourself, but how can you actually be pushed away or toward yourself? I think it needs to be errata’d.
If youre worried about optimization then go with the INT bump, if youre more into the character and his story and its advancement then go with the feat. At the end of the day what matters is how you want to play your character and whats most important to you.
I'd think the implication is, you can't use it on yourself, since there is no way to move "toward yourself" or "away from yourself." That seems to be both the explicit raw meaning of the text, and the RAI.
Your DM may rule differently, of course.
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Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
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Well, that’s definitely one of the options.
the fact that you can target yourself means you can “use it on yourself”. The conversation is what happens if you choose to do so. I don’t know what the RAI is. I’m not even sure what the RAW is either for targeting yourself.
this is probably another example of poorly written game features that have been popping up in UA that aren’t being changed.
the game already has features that use standardized language to represent what the designers were going for.
the game editors seem to be either prioritizing features being written differently to falsely represent depth between features or are horrible and aren’t actually editing anything.
every one of these threads and posts were brought up already on Twitter, these forums, other forums, and the surveys.
it’s up to the DM to rule at the table, but it’s the company’s fault for leaving such an obvious gray area in a player feature in the first place.
mall they had to do was limit the targeting to “other creatures”...if that was indeed the intent.
Beg your DM to allow a slight rebuild, start with 17 int. It's not worth it just for the feature alone. When my wizard took telekinetic, it made sense from a mathematical point because he already had 17 int to start, it bumped up his main stat at lvl 4. At that point very few things competed for my bonus action, and it synergized with bladesinger and booming blade-- it was free decent sustainable damage.
But at lvl 8, lots can compete for that bonus action, especially if you're using animate objects next lvl. It's just not that useful then, so I'm going to say bump up int all the way, unless you can convince your DM to rebuild, so you can have both 20 int and telekinetic.
You've probably already chosen what to go with (if so, which was it, if you don't mind?) but if not, I think you'd probably just have more fun going with Telekinetic.
This also gives you an interesting choice of options for your next ASI. You could split your bonuses (+1 to CHA, +1 elsewhere,) or go for yet another feat that adds +1 to your CHA... at which point, you'd have the +2 to CHA and two other feat effects as well.
Sterling - V. Human Bard 3 (College of Art) - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist (w/ Mansion) - Jasper's [Pic] - Sterling's [Sigil]
Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf