I'm a huge fan of the combination of Cleric and Wizard. My personal favorite is 1st lvl Knowledge and the rest Wizard (Abjuration). The main requirement is Wis: 13, but at that point you should be rocking a Wis:14, there are benefits for going for the 16, but the sacrifices probably aren't worth it unless you're rolling for stats and get lucky. To me one of the best things is you can have medium/heavy armor, a shield, and an open hand. Although Tempest Cleric gives you martial weapons, so if your Strength is high and you want to wield a weapon (Dex is high and Finesse weapon) Warcaster is a very good investment.
As your Int should be higher then your Wis, I recommend taking NO combat cantrips as a Cleric. Most of them are bad (in my opinion) and aside from dealing Radiant damage they don't compete with the Wizard's. This lets you spread out your non-combat creative cantrips: Guidance, Light, Mending, Resistance, Thaumaturgy, etc...
When you take 2nd lvl grab Wizard, this lets you now take damaging cantrips (if you go with shield and open hand, I recommend 1 long ranged and Shocking Grasp, if it hits they lose Reactions and you can move out of combat) and six 1st lvl spells in your spellbook. If you plan on staying in combat and fighting in melee, then ignore Shocking Grasp recommendation and take something like Booming Blade. I always recommend: Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages, Shield for your 1st lvl Wizard Spells, Unseen Servant is occasionally very useful (I often use it as a trap finder, it moves 15' ahead of the party, opens doors, etc). This means you don't have to "waste" a Cleric memorization for any of these ritual spells. Hopefully this isn't an AL game and your DM is flexible about damage spells. So, you can convert almost any spell into lightning/thunder. The Dev's have already said they don't balance spells around damage types and it's in theme if your Wizard of Thor is all about "shock (lightning) and awe (thunder)", possible convernt Green Flame Blade to Green Lightning Blade.
caveat emptor: You're going to be pushing back your high lvl spells AT LEAST 1-2 levels. It's not necessarily a big deal as you'll be able to heighten your low level spells to increased spell level and possibly use channel divinity to max the damage, but it's a thing to note. You'll always been 1-2 lvls behind any other caster and Wizards have some of the best versatility in casting: Tiny Hut, etc...
Multi-classing is actually a bit tricky. Now, while you gain spell slots by combining the two class levels together, you don't gain the appropriate spells for the slots. So, for instance, if you went with a Wizard 4/Cleric 4 character? You could only cast level 2 spells. This is kind of hard, when the game is expecting you to be casting fireballs, lightning, counter magic and dispel magic at this point.
Its very easy to come up with a combination that is going to make your character way under powered compared to other PCs. If it had just a little bit of power loss, that's not a big deal, you'd still be able to have fun. But we're talking about being unable to contribute meaningfully if done wrong, and lots of people find that to be unfun. The DM can patch the problem using magic items, especially a staff of fire type thing, but you're going to have to judge your own DM on that.
I'm not saying that your idea isn't possible, but it is going to require a bit of thought and planning out. So, let me ask this. What are you aiming for here? What's the concept? Are you looking to go wade into close combat? Just use Channel Divinity to max out the occasional lightning bolt? Is there something specific about wizard here, or would you be just as happy with a blue dragon sorcerer? What abilities do you like from each? Most magic class multi-classes are generally just a dip for a level or two to steal an ability, before focusing on a single class.
Multi-classing is actually a bit tricky. Now, while you gain spell slots by combining the two class levels together, you don't gain the appropriate spells for the slots. So, for instance, if you went with a Wizard 4/Cleric 4 character? You could only cast level 2 spells. This is kind of hard, when the game is expecting you to be casting fireballs, lightning, counter magic and dispel magic at this point.
Its very easy to come up with a combination that is going to make your character way under powered compared to other PCs. If it had just a little bit of power loss, that's not a big deal, you'd still be able to have fun. But we're talking about being unable to contribute meaningfully if done wrong, and lots of people find that to be unfun. The DM can patch the problem using magic items, especially a staff of fire type thing, but you're going to have to judge your own DM on that.
I'm not saying that your idea isn't possible, but it is going to require a bit of thought and planning out. So, let me ask this. What are you aiming for here? What's the concept? Are you looking to go wade into close combat? Just use Channel Divinity to max out the occasional lightning bolt? Is there something specific about wizard here, or would you be just as happy with a blue dragon sorcerer? What abilities do you like from each? Most magic class multi-classes are generally just a dip for a level or two to steal an ability, before focusing on a single class.
But with higher spell slots, he can cast some spells at higher levels and balance it out that way.
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That is true Pseudoimmortal, and I think Mephista knows this but I agree with her that they just aren't the same.
Lets take a look at some AoE Evocations spells at lvl.
Lvl 1 Burning hands is 15' cone at point blank for 3d6 fire on DEX save +1d6 per lvl above. Thunderwave is 15' cube at point blank for 2d8 thunder on CON save, plus 10' shove, +1d8 per lvl above.
Lvl 2 Snowball Swarm is 5' radius at 90' for 3d6 cold on DEX save, +1d6 per lvl above.
Lvl 3 Fireball is 30' radius at 120' for 8d6 fire on DEX save, +1d6 per lvl above Lightingbolt is 5' wide at 100' long for 8d6 lightning on DEX save, +1d6 per lvl above.
As you can see at at lvl 2 Snowball Swarm is only better then Burninghands because of range, but not AoE, a 2nd lvl Burninghands will do another 1d6 in damage. On the other hand a 3rd lvl Burninghands only does 5d6, while a 3rd lvl Fireball does 8d6. Upping the spell level helps, but it just doesn't compete.
But with higher spell slots, he can cast some spells at higher levels and balance it out that way.
Yes and no. There's a world of difference between casting a Flaming Sphere as a level 3 spell, and casting Fireball. While you can increase the potency of lower level spells this way, the higher level spells tend to be more powerful than a lower level spell cast at a higher spell slot. This is especially true for level 3, 6 and 9 spells (character level 5, 11 and 17 respectively). These levels are where characters jump from one tier to the next (as per DMG), and are accompanied by a notable increase of power as well.
Multi-classing requires some amount of system mastery as a result.
For my evocation wizard Tempest cleric I was thinking about going 14 levels into Wizard and 6 into cleric that way I can get the most out of evocation and get the most out of Tempest cleric I do have access to 9th level spells but it's very limited I don't have as many spell slots as if I went full wizard
Basically I'm going for a Battlefield controlling wizard when I get hit they get struck by lightning and pushed ten feet away from me so basically For my evocation wizard Tempest cleric I was thinking about going 14 levels into Wizard and 6 into cleric that way I can get the most out of evocation and get the most out of Tempest cleric I do have access to 9th level spells but it's very limited I don't have as many spell slots as if I went full wizard I'm using the 5th edition character sheet app to build him
For my evocation wizard Tempest cleric I was thinking about going 14 levels into Wizard and 6 into cleric that way I can get the most out of evocation and get the most out of Tempest cleric I do have access to 9th level spells but it's very limited I don't have as many spell slots as if I went full wizard
I think you have that backwards, sir or madam. You'll have exactly as many spell slots as if you went full wizard, but no access to level 9 spells. Level 7 magic would be the highest with your wizard levels.
Irregardless, that's not that important. Forget, for a minute, what your ultimate goal of a level 20 character is. Most games last until level 11, give or take; at that point, most stories either wrap up, or the DMs find that they don't like dealing with the complications of higher levels. Do you know if you'll go all the way to 20, because that will impact what you intend on doing on a level-by-level basis.
Basically I'm going for a Battlefield controlling wizard when I get hit they get struck by lightning and pushed ten feet away from me so basically For my evocation wizard Tempest cleric I was thinking about going 14 levels into Wizard and 6 into cleric that way I can get the most out of evocation and get the most out of Tempest cleric I do have access to 9th level spells but it's very limited I don't have as many spell slots as if I went full wizard I'm using the 5th edition character sheet app to build him
Okay, so you want to focus primarily on the pushes from lightning or thunder damage. While evoker does improve your damage output, I'm going to recommend starting off with six levels of cleric here. That's the corner stone of what you want to do, so getting to that point is going to be the most important. It also gives you access to level 3 magic, which should be enough to carry you through the game.
Personally, I'd start off with five wizard levels, get two cleric (for the channel divinity), then focus the remaining wizard levels, and put the pushes on the back burner for last. While nifty, pushing ten feet isn't something I consider powerful control, and can be situational (ie inside a temple or other dungeon, being pushed 10 feet into a wall isn't going to really control people from advancing). Are you combining this with someone using Opportunity Attacks or Polearm Mastery?
Do you think it'd be better to go 18 and wizard than just 2 in cleric I'm kind of going for a tanky wizard that's what I'm trying to do somewhat battlemage heavy armor you think it will be better to do a wizard fighter taking a 2 level dip in fighter and the rest of the wizard that way I can get an extra attack once a long rest
That is true Pseudoimmortal, and I think Mephista knows this but I agree with her that they just aren't the same.
Lets take a look at some AoE Evocations spells at lvl.
Lvl 1 Burning hands is 15' cone at point blank for 3d6 fire on DEX save +1d6 per lvl above. Thunderwave is 15' cube at point blank for 2d8 thunder on CON save, plus 10' shove, +1d8 per lvl above.
Lvl 2 Snowball Swarm is 5' radius at 90' for 3d6 cold on DEX save, +1d6 per lvl above.
Lvl 3 Fireball is 30' radius at 120' for 8d6 fire on DEX save, +1d6 per lvl above Lightingbolt is 5' wide at 100' long for 8d6 lightning on DEX save, +1d6 per lvl above.
As you can see at at lvl 2 Snowball Swarm is only better then Burninghands because of range, but not AoE, a 2nd lvl Burninghands will do another 1d6 in damage. On the other hand a 3rd lvl Burninghands only does 5d6, while a 3rd lvl Fireball does 8d6. Upping the spell level helps, but it just doesn't compete.
Well, fireball was also stated to have higher damage than the average level 3 spell, which would have 6d6 if we take it at face value from the post made by beyond. This will not be the case on every skill plateau, only on 3.
But I will also like to point out that even if he can't learn them on level up, per the wizard only learning spells that he can gain that matches up with his wizard table specifically, wizard have the unique ability to overcome this by learning spells through copying.
The rules for being able to copy a spell into your book are,
When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
While preparing, the rules are as follows,
You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Since THIS part doesn't explicitly say that you prepare spells based on your wizard table and instead say for which you have slots, and since your multicaster table determines your slots, AAAAND since you can copy any spell you can prepare, I would say, RAW, he can copy and consequently learn higher level spells than what he can take when he levels up.
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Snake2041that's cool that you're expecting to go to 20th, but I think Mephista's point is to make sure you're happy with your character from lvl 1 to 20. It would be awful if you just aren't happy with your character underperforming compared to straight class character and you weren't happy for lots of lvls. That's not so bad at the 1st 1-3 lvls because they should go quickly, but when you hit 5+ you'll be at each lvl for a while.
So for example which class to start 1st lvl in? Wizard: Saves: Int/Wis, 6+CON HP, 2 skills, basic weapons. Cleric: Saves: Wis/Cha, 8+CON HP, 2 skills, simple, light armor, medium armor, shields. This isn't counting the bonuses from Tempest Cleric which give hvy armor and martial weapons. If you multiclass into Cleric you get light, medium armor and shields while Wizard gives nothing. Technically if you take 1st lvl Wizard and 2nd lvl Tempest Cleric you're not proficient with Simple Weapons. Also Cleric lets you *start* the game with good armor and a shield and 2 points more HP, so I would recommend it as it's a more powerful start. That's a choice you'll need to decide. If you do start Cleric you'll need to save up 25gold to buy a Component Pouch ASAP for when you go Wizard.
The next key thing is when you get your features Cleric: 1st: Martial Weapons/Heavy Armor, Wrath of the Storm 2nd: Channel Divinity: Turn Undead/Destructive Wave 5th: Destroy Undead CR:1/2 6th: Thunderbolt Strike, Channel Divinity 2x 8th: Divine Strike, Destroy Undead CR:1 10th: Divine Intervention 11th: Destroy Undead CR:2 14th: Destroy Undead CR:3 17th: Stormborn, Destroy Undead CR:4 18th: Chanel Divinity 3x Wizard: 1st: Arcane Recovery 2nd: Sculpt Spell 6th: Potent Cantrip 10th: Empowered Evocation 14th: Overchannel 18th: Spell Mastery
Now you need to figure out which of these are important to you and when you want to acquire them. As you can see Cleric gets a lot of stuff where Wizard gets all of it's power in Spell Levels. If you want to go lots of Wizard with a dip in Cleric for defense and maxing a lighting spell per short rest, that's fine but it means your a more "in the back" character. If you want lots of Cleric with a dip in Wizard so you have access to 1st lvl ritual spells without memorizing them, get the Shield spell, and use Sculpt Spell to drop AoEs without fear of hitting allies then you're going to be in the front mixing it up with the enemy.
The point is to plan out what class you will be every level you will be it from 1-20. Personally I think Wizard's features at 2nd and 10th are amazing, but 6th is terrible, where as I love all of Cleric. If it was me I might do: 1st Cleric, 2nd and 3rd Wizard, and the rest Cleric... I'll be 6th lvl before I get a ASI and 7th before I get a 3rd lvl spell which is sad, but I'll be able to drop those AoEs pretty early without fear of hitting my party (inside closed spaces) and by 4th lvl I can use my divinity to max damage, plus Undead will never be a huge threat to my party. I'll be a monster in combat using my Wizard cantrip for bonus damage and familiar to always have Advantage on the attack while mixing it up in melee. If you do this, you might want to start Varient Human with Warcaster at lvl 1 so you can get maximum use otherwise you'll have limited casting until your 1st ASI.
Do you think it'd be better to go 18 and wizard than just 2 in cleric I'm kind of going for a tanky wizard that's what I'm trying to do somewhat battlemage heavy armor you think it will be better to do a wizard fighter taking a 2 level dip in fighter and the rest of the wizard that way I can get an extra attack once a long rest
Okay, I thought that you wanted to be a battlefield controller? Or just massive damage from lightning and sound spells? If you want to be tanky, Abjuration, War Magic (Xanathar's Guide) and Bladesinger (Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide) are generally the best options for that. Evokers are good at casting massively large spells that do large damage without hitting the target.
Are you trying to be a swordmage type? Use both blade and spell? Because, by level 5, you'll be better off casting cantrips than using a sword unless you're taking a specific subclass (such as Bladesinger) that lets you use both at the same time. Or did you just mean that you wanted to put your wizard in heavy armor, and you're looking for heavy armor proficiency?
I'm a bit confused here on what your goal is. Do you want any of the magic from being a cleric at all? Or just the armor and weaponry?
Well, fireball was also stated to have higher damage than the average level 3 spell, which would have 6d6 if we take it at face value from the post made by beyond. This will not be the case on every skill plateau, only on 3.
Fireball is merely one of several examples; there's several iconic spells spread throughout the game that are specifically designed above the power curve, among all spell levels. Whether or not fireball and lightning bolt are above the power curve is immaterial - they exist, and, along with a number of other powerful spells, they showcase that higher level spells are stronger than just casting a lower level spell at a higher spell slot. Magic missile is another iconic-power-boosted spell, and its not as strong as a fireball cast at level 3.
But I will also like to point out that even if he can't learn them on level up, per the wizard only learning spells that he can gain that matches up with his wizard table specifically, wizard have the unique ability to overcome this by learning spells through copying.
Even if your DM allows you to scribe it into your spellbook, you can't prepare such spells, nor cast them. Click for Sage Advice explaining that.
Since THIS part doesn't explicitly say that you prepare spells based on your wizard table and instead say for which you have slots, and since your multicaster table determines your slots, AAAAND since you can copy any spell you can prepare, I would say, RAW, he can copy and consequently learn higher level spells than what he can take when he levels up.
The devs have said that you should always assume that a class' description is going to refer to class levels. The game is written in such a way that, outside of the optional Multi-class rules section, the game assumes that you will be a straight single class. Every time you want to reference what a multi-class character can do, we have to
As such, you default to the very specific rules in the multi-class section when dealing with a multi-classed spellcaster. "Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes." That means that all wizard spells known and prepared is based on your wizard levels, not your total levels. Cantrips alone are called out as an exception.
Listen to Mephista. There is never a circumstance where multiclassing will allow you to cast a spell of a higher level than what your individual spellcasting classes would allow. The multiclassing rules are clear:
Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class.
A single-classed member of any spellcasting class doesn't have multiclass spell slots. There's no free lunch here. If you want higher level class features or spells, you need to invest more levels into a class.
Mephista is also right about higher level spells. Most single-target spells use dice smaller than d10s so they can't scale to match DMG's guidelines. The only ones I can think of that scale well are Inflict Wounds and Scorching Ray. But damage is the least important consideration. Being a bit behind on the damage curve isn't a big deal; anyone can do damage. Higher level spells enable new options that lower level spells can never match. A 4th level Invisibility isn't the same as Greater Invisibility. A 5th level Misty Step won't get you a Teleportation Circle
Multiclassing as a spellcaster comes at a steeper cost than other classes because every 2 levels unlocks a new tier of more powerful options and you're delaying those in favor a wider range of weaker options. The progression of non-spellcasting classes isn't as linear. That's not to say it can't work - having access to Cure Wounds goes a long way for a wizard - but it does require some care.
Sorry for confusing you I'm going for a spell Caster not planning on going in the melee at all so basically what I'm wondering is like how many levels should I go into Tempest cleric should I go 2 levels into it or 6 I'm assuming 2 that away I get all my spell slots for Wizard what I was saying with the heavy armor is I get Proficiency in that so I could wear it cuz normally Wizards can't wear armor and if I went six levels in the Tempest cleric I would be able to push people back but I'd only get 14 levels into wizard evocation
I personally would start at cleric 1 for armor, aim for level 5 wizard next. I consider spells like Dispel, Countermagic, and Fireball to be generally critical to the game. Dispel magic is used in dealing with traps fairly regularly (at least in my experience). Counter magic can be a lifesaver when facing enemy combatants. And fireball... sometimes, when you face a hoard, you need to clear the board. That's what the wizard is for. As well, from the way your group is comprised, it won't hurt to have access to the low level wizard utility spells like Knock. This is your basic level of competency, and we'll have lots of flexibility from here on out.
Once you hit level 5 wizard, I would jump over to Cleric 2. From here? Tenatively, I'm going to say aim for wizard 10, then cleric 6, then the rest wizard. You're going to want that extra damage to your evocation at wizard 10. Really, though, at this point a lot is going to depend a lot on party tactics and the direction everyone is going in as a whole. There's a lot of spellcasting in your group, and I'm a fan of adapting your level choices depending on what the group needs at any given time, as well as the needs of the campaign. High level undead games differ from high level Underdark or fiend games.
Fullmetalbunny covered the stat distribution in another post well enough. For feats? In general, the big ones for casters are going to be ones that improve your Concentration saves - Resilient (constition) and War Caster. Stat increases tend to be held as more important than most other feats.
I will echo a lot of thoughts on this thread. Since you want to do the Wizard/Tempest Cleric build, I recommend the dip of only 2 levels into Tempest Cleric. Anymore multi-classing and you really lose out on some really high level spells, which are more potent then up casting lower level spells. And being anymore than 1 levels behind in reaching the next spell level can really be painful in play in my experience.
Timing is the other big piece. I Recommend 5wizard/2Cleric/13wizard. Third level spells are amazing and create a significant power boost, so getting there as quickly as possibly is generically good. 1 Wizard / 1Cleric / 4Wizard / 1cleric / 13 Wizard is also not bad. You get access to Heavy Armor and Healing Word at level 2 and 3rd level Wizard spells at 6th level.
Lastly if your looking for damage in combat the Evocation wizard is king. This is Dungeon and Drago,n and characters tend to spend some time in tight enclosed places, dungeons, and sculpting evocations is amazing at almost every level for Maximizing AOE damage in enclosed places around a particularly large party.
Okay I have one more multiclassing question for a new character for another campaign he is a nature cleric Hill dwarf what I'm wondering is what would be a good multiclassing option for him I found one where he goes into Ranger but I'm not sure I'm mostly using him as a Healer which I'm kind of kicking myself in the ass because I could have went life cleric with a druid Shepherd and he'd have been a god healer but sadly I've already created him and I can't do that but yeah anyways any advice on a multiclassing nature cleric thank you
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Want to do a wizard evocation Tempest cleric build but not really sure if it's going to be good new to D&D please help
I'm a huge fan of the combination of Cleric and Wizard. My personal favorite is 1st lvl Knowledge and the rest Wizard (Abjuration).
The main requirement is Wis: 13, but at that point you should be rocking a Wis:14, there are benefits for going for the 16, but the sacrifices probably aren't worth it unless you're rolling for stats and get lucky.
To me one of the best things is you can have medium/heavy armor, a shield, and an open hand. Although Tempest Cleric gives you martial weapons, so if your Strength is high and you want to wield a weapon (Dex is high and Finesse weapon) Warcaster is a very good investment.
As your Int should be higher then your Wis, I recommend taking NO combat cantrips as a Cleric. Most of them are bad (in my opinion) and aside from dealing Radiant damage they don't compete with the Wizard's. This lets you spread out your non-combat creative cantrips: Guidance, Light, Mending, Resistance, Thaumaturgy, etc...
When you take 2nd lvl grab Wizard, this lets you now take damaging cantrips (if you go with shield and open hand, I recommend 1 long ranged and Shocking Grasp, if it hits they lose Reactions and you can move out of combat) and six 1st lvl spells in your spellbook. If you plan on staying in combat and fighting in melee, then ignore Shocking Grasp recommendation and take something like Booming Blade.
I always recommend: Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages, Shield for your 1st lvl Wizard Spells, Unseen Servant is occasionally very useful (I often use it as a trap finder, it moves 15' ahead of the party, opens doors, etc). This means you don't have to "waste" a Cleric memorization for any of these ritual spells.
Hopefully this isn't an AL game and your DM is flexible about damage spells. So, you can convert almost any spell into lightning/thunder. The Dev's have already said they don't balance spells around damage types and it's in theme if your Wizard of Thor is all about "shock (lightning) and awe (thunder)", possible convernt Green Flame Blade to Green Lightning Blade.
caveat emptor: You're going to be pushing back your high lvl spells AT LEAST 1-2 levels. It's not necessarily a big deal as you'll be able to heighten your low level spells to increased spell level and possibly use channel divinity to max the damage, but it's a thing to note. You'll always been 1-2 lvls behind any other caster and Wizards have some of the best versatility in casting: Tiny Hut, etc...
Multi-classing is actually a bit tricky. Now, while you gain spell slots by combining the two class levels together, you don't gain the appropriate spells for the slots. So, for instance, if you went with a Wizard 4/Cleric 4 character? You could only cast level 2 spells. This is kind of hard, when the game is expecting you to be casting fireballs, lightning, counter magic and dispel magic at this point.
Its very easy to come up with a combination that is going to make your character way under powered compared to other PCs. If it had just a little bit of power loss, that's not a big deal, you'd still be able to have fun. But we're talking about being unable to contribute meaningfully if done wrong, and lots of people find that to be unfun. The DM can patch the problem using magic items, especially a staff of fire type thing, but you're going to have to judge your own DM on that.
I'm not saying that your idea isn't possible, but it is going to require a bit of thought and planning out. So, let me ask this. What are you aiming for here? What's the concept? Are you looking to go wade into close combat? Just use Channel Divinity to max out the occasional lightning bolt? Is there something specific about wizard here, or would you be just as happy with a blue dragon sorcerer? What abilities do you like from each? Most magic class multi-classes are generally just a dip for a level or two to steal an ability, before focusing on a single class.
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
That is true Pseudoimmortal, and I think Mephista knows this but I agree with her that they just aren't the same.
Lets take a look at some AoE Evocations spells at lvl.
Lvl 1
Burning hands is 15' cone at point blank for 3d6 fire on DEX save +1d6 per lvl above.
Thunderwave is 15' cube at point blank for 2d8 thunder on CON save, plus 10' shove, +1d8 per lvl above.
Lvl 2
Snowball Swarm is 5' radius at 90' for 3d6 cold on DEX save, +1d6 per lvl above.
Lvl 3
Fireball is 30' radius at 120' for 8d6 fire on DEX save, +1d6 per lvl above
Lightingbolt is 5' wide at 100' long for 8d6 lightning on DEX save, +1d6 per lvl above.
As you can see at at lvl 2 Snowball Swarm is only better then Burninghands because of range, but not AoE, a 2nd lvl Burninghands will do another 1d6 in damage. On the other hand a 3rd lvl Burninghands only does 5d6, while a 3rd lvl Fireball does 8d6. Upping the spell level helps, but it just doesn't compete.
Multi-classing requires some amount of system mastery as a result.
For my evocation wizard Tempest cleric I was thinking about going 14 levels into Wizard and 6 into cleric that way I can get the most out of evocation and get the most out of Tempest cleric I do have access to 9th level spells but it's very limited I don't have as many spell slots as if I went full wizard
Basically I'm going for a Battlefield controlling wizard when I get hit they get struck by lightning and pushed ten feet away from me so basically For my evocation wizard Tempest cleric I was thinking about going 14 levels into Wizard and 6 into cleric that way I can get the most out of evocation and get the most out of Tempest cleric I do have access to 9th level spells but it's very limited I don't have as many spell slots as if I went full wizard I'm using the 5th edition character sheet app to build him
Okay my DM is planning on going to max level if we survive we have a bard 2 monks a paladin and a sorcerer and a druid
Do you think it'd be better to go 18 and wizard than just 2 in cleric I'm kind of going for a tanky wizard that's what I'm trying to do somewhat battlemage heavy armor you think it will be better to do a wizard fighter taking a 2 level dip in fighter and the rest of the wizard that way I can get an extra attack once a long rest
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
Snake2041 that's cool that you're expecting to go to 20th, but I think Mephista's point is to make sure you're happy with your character from lvl 1 to 20. It would be awful if you just aren't happy with your character underperforming compared to straight class character and you weren't happy for lots of lvls. That's not so bad at the 1st 1-3 lvls because they should go quickly, but when you hit 5+ you'll be at each lvl for a while.
So for example which class to start 1st lvl in?
Wizard: Saves: Int/Wis, 6+CON HP, 2 skills, basic weapons.
Cleric: Saves: Wis/Cha, 8+CON HP, 2 skills, simple, light armor, medium armor, shields.
This isn't counting the bonuses from Tempest Cleric which give hvy armor and martial weapons. If you multiclass into Cleric you get light, medium armor and shields while Wizard gives nothing.
Technically if you take 1st lvl Wizard and 2nd lvl Tempest Cleric you're not proficient with Simple Weapons. Also Cleric lets you *start* the game with good armor and a shield and 2 points more HP, so I would recommend it as it's a more powerful start. That's a choice you'll need to decide. If you do start Cleric you'll need to save up 25gold to buy a Component Pouch ASAP for when you go Wizard.
The next key thing is when you get your features
Cleric:
1st: Martial Weapons/Heavy Armor, Wrath of the Storm
2nd: Channel Divinity: Turn Undead/Destructive Wave
5th: Destroy Undead CR:1/2
6th: Thunderbolt Strike, Channel Divinity 2x
8th: Divine Strike, Destroy Undead CR:1
10th: Divine Intervention
11th: Destroy Undead CR:2
14th: Destroy Undead CR:3
17th: Stormborn, Destroy Undead CR:4
18th: Chanel Divinity 3x
Wizard:
1st: Arcane Recovery
2nd: Sculpt Spell
6th: Potent Cantrip
10th: Empowered Evocation
14th: Overchannel
18th: Spell Mastery
Now you need to figure out which of these are important to you and when you want to acquire them. As you can see Cleric gets a lot of stuff where Wizard gets all of it's power in Spell Levels.
If you want to go lots of Wizard with a dip in Cleric for defense and maxing a lighting spell per short rest, that's fine but it means your a more "in the back" character. If you want lots of Cleric with a dip in Wizard so you have access to 1st lvl ritual spells without memorizing them, get the Shield spell, and use Sculpt Spell to drop AoEs without fear of hitting allies then you're going to be in the front mixing it up with the enemy.
The point is to plan out what class you will be every level you will be it from 1-20.
Personally I think Wizard's features at 2nd and 10th are amazing, but 6th is terrible, where as I love all of Cleric. If it was me I might do: 1st Cleric, 2nd and 3rd Wizard, and the rest Cleric... I'll be 6th lvl before I get a ASI and 7th before I get a 3rd lvl spell which is sad, but I'll be able to drop those AoEs pretty early without fear of hitting my party (inside closed spaces) and by 4th lvl I can use my divinity to max damage, plus Undead will never be a huge threat to my party. I'll be a monster in combat using my Wizard cantrip for bonus damage and familiar to always have Advantage on the attack while mixing it up in melee. If you do this, you might want to start Varient Human with Warcaster at lvl 1 so you can get maximum use otherwise you'll have limited casting until your 1st ASI.
Listen to Mephista. There is never a circumstance where multiclassing will allow you to cast a spell of a higher level than what your individual spellcasting classes would allow. The multiclassing rules are clear:
A single-classed member of any spellcasting class doesn't have multiclass spell slots. There's no free lunch here. If you want higher level class features or spells, you need to invest more levels into a class.
Mephista is also right about higher level spells. Most single-target spells use dice smaller than d10s so they can't scale to match DMG's guidelines. The only ones I can think of that scale well are Inflict Wounds and Scorching Ray. But damage is the least important consideration. Being a bit behind on the damage curve isn't a big deal; anyone can do damage. Higher level spells enable new options that lower level spells can never match. A 4th level Invisibility isn't the same as Greater Invisibility. A 5th level Misty Step won't get you a Teleportation Circle
Multiclassing as a spellcaster comes at a steeper cost than other classes because every 2 levels unlocks a new tier of more powerful options and you're delaying those in favor a wider range of weaker options. The progression of non-spellcasting classes isn't as linear. That's not to say it can't work - having access to Cure Wounds goes a long way for a wizard - but it does require some care.
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Sorry for confusing you I'm going for a spell Caster not planning on going in the melee at all so basically what I'm wondering is like how many levels should I go into Tempest cleric should I go 2 levels into it or 6 I'm assuming 2 that away I get all my spell slots for Wizard what I was saying with the heavy armor is I get Proficiency in that so I could wear it cuz normally Wizards can't wear armor and if I went six levels in the Tempest cleric I would be able to push people back but I'd only get 14 levels into wizard evocation
I personally would start at cleric 1 for armor, aim for level 5 wizard next. I consider spells like Dispel, Countermagic, and Fireball to be generally critical to the game. Dispel magic is used in dealing with traps fairly regularly (at least in my experience). Counter magic can be a lifesaver when facing enemy combatants. And fireball... sometimes, when you face a hoard, you need to clear the board. That's what the wizard is for. As well, from the way your group is comprised, it won't hurt to have access to the low level wizard utility spells like Knock. This is your basic level of competency, and we'll have lots of flexibility from here on out.
Once you hit level 5 wizard, I would jump over to Cleric 2. From here? Tenatively, I'm going to say aim for wizard 10, then cleric 6, then the rest wizard. You're going to want that extra damage to your evocation at wizard 10. Really, though, at this point a lot is going to depend a lot on party tactics and the direction everyone is going in as a whole. There's a lot of spellcasting in your group, and I'm a fan of adapting your level choices depending on what the group needs at any given time, as well as the needs of the campaign. High level undead games differ from high level Underdark or fiend games.
Fullmetalbunny covered the stat distribution in another post well enough. For feats? In general, the big ones for casters are going to be ones that improve your Concentration saves - Resilient (constition) and War Caster. Stat increases tend to be held as more important than most other feats.
Okay cool thank you guys so much this has helped out a lot :)
I will echo a lot of thoughts on this thread. Since you want to do the Wizard/Tempest Cleric build, I recommend the dip of only 2 levels into Tempest Cleric. Anymore multi-classing and you really lose out on some really high level spells, which are more potent then up casting lower level spells. And being anymore than 1 levels behind in reaching the next spell level can really be painful in play in my experience.
Timing is the other big piece. I Recommend 5wizard/2Cleric/13wizard. Third level spells are amazing and create a significant power boost, so getting there as quickly as possibly is generically good. 1 Wizard / 1Cleric / 4Wizard / 1cleric / 13 Wizard is also not bad. You get access to Heavy Armor and Healing Word at level 2 and 3rd level Wizard spells at 6th level.
Lastly if your looking for damage in combat the Evocation wizard is king. This is Dungeon and Drago,n and characters tend to spend some time in tight enclosed places, dungeons, and sculpting evocations is amazing at almost every level for Maximizing AOE damage in enclosed places around a particularly large party.
Okay I have one more multiclassing question for a new character for another campaign he is a nature cleric Hill dwarf what I'm wondering is what would be a good multiclassing option for him I found one where he goes into Ranger but I'm not sure I'm mostly using him as a Healer which I'm kind of kicking myself in the ass because I could have went life cleric with a druid Shepherd and he'd have been a god healer but sadly I've already created him and I can't do that but yeah anyways any advice on a multiclassing nature cleric thank you