Does this spell seem a bit overblown to anyone else? I feel like it doesn't do enough damage or have a dramatic enough effect to warrant being a 7th level spell with a 250gp cost. Keep in mind I am by no means a D&D expert and I my own wizard is quite a way's away from being able to cast it, but when that time comes, should it be a spell worth consideration?
The material component is not consumed with the spell, so that is only a one-time cost of 250 gp. And by the time you can learn such spells, spending 250 gp shouldn't be a big deal unless your DM has made such rewards more scarce in their world. Either way, if you go with the spell then you should make sure to keep the miniature sword somewhere safe. As any thief would steal it in a heartbeat.
You're 100% correct, it's massively overblown. A 4th level Spiritual Weapon does nearly identical damage, without requiring any sort of material component focus, and more importantly as a Bonus Action initial casting, and without requiring concentration. That being said, Wizards who aren't Necromancers (for some reason) have virtually nothing to do with their bonus actions anyway, and certainly none that last across multiple rounds without requiring concentration, so just because it's Terrible in comparison doesn't make it not the best option available, for those who want to dish out as much damage as possible over an extended fight.
Mind you, I think those people are missing out if that's what they're spending concentration on, rather than CC or buffs or whatever, but hey, it's at least an option, so who am I to complain.
You're 100% correct, it's massively overblown. A 4th level Spiritual Weapon does nearly identical damage, without requiring any sort of material component focus, and more importantly as a Bonus Action initial casting, and without requiring concentration.
Wut?
A level 4 Spiritual Weapon is doing 2D8(9 damage)+Ability Mod as a bonus action every turn. Even level 6 is only 3D8 (13.5 on average) + Mod.
Mordenkainen's Sword using a level 7 spot is 3D10(16.5) as a bonus action every turn.
Assuming a +5 on your spellcasting stat, the point probably holds up that at Level 6 casting of it is better, but the Level 4 casting is slightly worse.
The casting time is semi-relevant, but there's so many things that are a bonus action, and by level 14 you've probably got access to SOMETHING that could be using it. 250GP for the reusable component (which would make a badass necklace or broach btw) is meaningless in a level 10+ setting.
I think your valuation is a bit low on the Sword here. It's almost entirely on par with Spiritual Weapon
Right, the ability mod of 5 puts it at 14 damage, or 4 puts it at 13 damage, a dropoff of 3.5 damage, in exchange for using a 4th level slot instead of a 7th level slot (and most importantly not requiring concentration). I did say "nearly identical" instead of identical for a reason :-) You can certainly quibble that a 20% falloff is more than "nearly", but 3.5 damage per round is hardly the normal difference in winning or losing a fight, at the point at which 7th level spells come out. I mean shoot, the fact you can get out even just a cantrip as an action in addition to the bonus action would normally be worth around 5 rounds worth of the difference in damage, and again, that's it at 4th level vs the sword at 7th.
I am not saying it's "bad". That would require better options to exist for a Wizard performing an equivalent function, which they do not. I'm just saying it's over costed by comparison, and thus underwhelming for a 7th level spell. Remember, this is in direct competition with, for example, "reverse gravity", a no save "ceiling is up" effect which persists for just as long and also requires concentration. If you think having a weapon with which you can attack as a bonus action for 16ish damage per turn is better than (at its best) totally immobilizing all enemies, no save, in a 50 foot radius, well that's cool and all but I'd have to respectfully disagree. (Note I keep saying 'no save', I know they can save to grab and object and basically immobilize themselves, hanging off of a tree or something. Realistically that's just as useful to you as if they fell, either way they're not advancing forward to attack anyone while it's going on).
1- The spell is not good. I should have made it clear that if you start bringing in most other spells, it's going to lag in comparison. I will go ahead and say it is bad in the sense that I would pick literally anything else in a fight.
2- I was just pointing out that the comparison to spiritual weapon isn't entirely fair. 3.5/Round x 10 rounds or 35 points of damage for the spells duration. At level 7 does 35 points of damage over 10 rounds matter? Probably not? But without getting too deep down the "why things are good" rabbit hole, I was pointing out the maths. 20% is a pretty statistically significant difference between 2 things. It's why upping your ability mod from +4 to +5 is so important after all.
1- The spell is not good. I should have made it clear that if you start bringing in most other spells, it's going to lag in comparison. I will go ahead and say it is bad in the sense that I would pick literally anything else in a fight.
2- I was just pointing out that the comparison to spiritual weapon isn't entirely fair. 3.5/Round x 10 rounds or 35 points of damage for the spells duration. At level 7 does 35 points of damage over 10 rounds matter? Probably not? But without getting too deep down the "why things are good" rabbit hole, I was pointing out the maths. 20% is a pretty statistically significant difference between 2 things. It's why upping your ability mod from +4 to +5 is so important after all.
Fair enough, and indeed I should have been more clear about the actual difference in damage when initially discussing it. A fair point and my apologies for not being more clear initially.
Let me see if I can provide a better example of why spiritual weapon is better than Mordenkainen's sword. With a +3 spellcasting ability modifier, which is arguably low for the level you have to be for this comparison to be relevant, the differences between spiritual weapon cast at 6th level and Mordenkainen's sword cast at 7th level are as follows:
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Does this spell seem a bit overblown to anyone else? I feel like it doesn't do enough damage or have a dramatic enough effect to warrant being a 7th level spell with a 250gp cost. Keep in mind I am by no means a D&D expert and I my own wizard is quite a way's away from being able to cast it, but when that time comes, should it be a spell worth consideration?
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The material component is not consumed with the spell, so that is only a one-time cost of 250 gp. And by the time you can learn such spells, spending 250 gp shouldn't be a big deal unless your DM has made such rewards more scarce in their world. Either way, if you go with the spell then you should make sure to keep the miniature sword somewhere safe. As any thief would steal it in a heartbeat.
You're 100% correct, it's massively overblown. A 4th level Spiritual Weapon does nearly identical damage, without requiring any sort of material component focus, and more importantly as a Bonus Action initial casting, and without requiring concentration. That being said, Wizards who aren't Necromancers (for some reason) have virtually nothing to do with their bonus actions anyway, and certainly none that last across multiple rounds without requiring concentration, so just because it's Terrible in comparison doesn't make it not the best option available, for those who want to dish out as much damage as possible over an extended fight.
Mind you, I think those people are missing out if that's what they're spending concentration on, rather than CC or buffs or whatever, but hey, it's at least an option, so who am I to complain.
A level 4 Spiritual Weapon is doing 2D8(9 damage)+Ability Mod as a bonus action every turn. Even level 6 is only 3D8 (13.5 on average) + Mod.
Mordenkainen's Sword using a level 7 spot is 3D10(16.5) as a bonus action every turn.
Assuming a +5 on your spellcasting stat, the point probably holds up that at Level 6 casting of it is better, but the Level 4 casting is slightly worse.
The casting time is semi-relevant, but there's so many things that are a bonus action, and by level 14 you've probably got access to SOMETHING that could be using it. 250GP for the reusable component (which would make a badass necklace or broach btw) is meaningless in a level 10+ setting.
I think your valuation is a bit low on the Sword here. It's almost entirely on par with Spiritual Weapon
Right, the ability mod of 5 puts it at 14 damage, or 4 puts it at 13 damage, a dropoff of 3.5 damage, in exchange for using a 4th level slot instead of a 7th level slot (and most importantly not requiring concentration). I did say "nearly identical" instead of identical for a reason :-) You can certainly quibble that a 20% falloff is more than "nearly", but 3.5 damage per round is hardly the normal difference in winning or losing a fight, at the point at which 7th level spells come out. I mean shoot, the fact you can get out even just a cantrip as an action in addition to the bonus action would normally be worth around 5 rounds worth of the difference in damage, and again, that's it at 4th level vs the sword at 7th.
I am not saying it's "bad". That would require better options to exist for a Wizard performing an equivalent function, which they do not. I'm just saying it's over costed by comparison, and thus underwhelming for a 7th level spell. Remember, this is in direct competition with, for example, "reverse gravity", a no save "ceiling is up" effect which persists for just as long and also requires concentration. If you think having a weapon with which you can attack as a bonus action for 16ish damage per turn is better than (at its best) totally immobilizing all enemies, no save, in a 50 foot radius, well that's cool and all but I'd have to respectfully disagree. (Note I keep saying 'no save', I know they can save to grab and object and basically immobilize themselves, hanging off of a tree or something. Realistically that's just as useful to you as if they fell, either way they're not advancing forward to attack anyone while it's going on).
1- The spell is not good. I should have made it clear that if you start bringing in most other spells, it's going to lag in comparison. I will go ahead and say it is bad in the sense that I would pick literally anything else in a fight.
2- I was just pointing out that the comparison to spiritual weapon isn't entirely fair. 3.5/Round x 10 rounds or 35 points of damage for the spells duration. At level 7 does 35 points of damage over 10 rounds matter? Probably not? But without getting too deep down the "why things are good" rabbit hole, I was pointing out the maths. 20% is a pretty statistically significant difference between 2 things. It's why upping your ability mod from +4 to +5 is so important after all.
Let me see if I can provide a better example of why spiritual weapon is better than Mordenkainen's sword. With a +3 spellcasting ability modifier, which is arguably low for the level you have to be for this comparison to be relevant, the differences between spiritual weapon cast at 6th level and Mordenkainen's sword cast at 7th level are as follows:
Spell slots aside, I would say that a 4th-level spiritual weapon is better than a 7th-level Mordenkainen's sword.
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Spiritual Weapon better.
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