I have yet to play a Sorcerer. I helped build a Sorcerer for my fiance, and she is loving it so far. She hates the spell limitations, but I personally love it. I find a sense of fluidity when you have a small amount of things to work with. Find your ultimate list and build your combo with it... I play a Cleric and having so man spells to sift through gives me such a headache. Despite the options for so many spells and being able to interhcange them day by day, I tend to keep with my tried and true.
Oh yeah, my wizard is so going to change to this...would've done this in the beginning!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A player since the great Dawn War, I've seen every edition flash before my eyes. I've wandered the plateau of Mystara (before it was Mystara), had spiced elven tea with Dalamar, composed spells with Mordenkeinan, and walked the ruins of Myth Drannor with the great Elminster himself — though I believe he was a cat at the time —. The scrolls and books that I have read have filled me with intrigue and seeing all of the imaginative constructs that other people come up with give me great joy
So, Xanathar's Guide is here. We have our War Mage subclass, and it seems... solid.
It seems to be more on the defensive side, closer to an Abjurer than to an Evoker. I'd still choose Evoker if I wanted to blast, but War Mage still has some offensive abilities. Overall, it is a fine subclass option, though I have to admit, it's a bit underwhelming.
I get it, of course - people liked War Mage more than they liked Theurge or Lore Master, so it made more sense for WotC to just include War Mage into Xanathar's Guide, instead of spending time and resources on improving Theurge and Lore Master to the point of acceptance by the player base. I think it was a tough competition, though, if all the posts about Theurge and Lore Master here are of any indication.
I like the Warmage but you're right...just ok. I like the initiative boost and the surge feature is pretty cool, but the shield was just so-so.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A player since the great Dawn War, I've seen every edition flash before my eyes. I've wandered the plateau of Mystara (before it was Mystara), had spiced elven tea with Dalamar, composed spells with Mordenkeinan, and walked the ruins of Myth Drannor with the great Elminster himself — though I believe he was a cat at the time —. The scrolls and books that I have read have filled me with intrigue and seeing all of the imaginative constructs that other people come up with give me great joy
Completely underwhelmed by the War Magic subclass. The shield is ridiculously expensive and restricting.
+4 (with another +2 at 10th level) to saving throws is underwhelming? That's a hell of a boost to concentration saves and any other effect that could take you out of the fight.
Having higher initiative is also really good. Increases the chances you can take out an enemy before they can act, or if you're surprised it can prevent enemies from getting a turn while you can't take reactions.
Completely underwhelmed by the War Magic subclass. The shield is ridiculously expensive and restricting.
+4 (with another +2 at 10th level) to saving throws is underwhelming? That's a hell of a boost to concentration saves and any other effect that could take you out of the fight.
Having higher initiative is also really good. Increases the chances you can take out an enemy before they can act, or if you're surprised it can prevent enemies from getting a turn while you can't take reactions.
The +2 from Durable Magic is not tied to the shield and is situational with having a Concentration spell up. Honestly, I'd put this as the shield ability you initially get. The cost of a Concentration spell in the early levels is pretty big (1/3 or 1/4 of your slots), easy to thwart as saves are hard, and Cantrip Concentration spells end when triggered, so re-applying the buff costs you an action.
The cost of being able to cast a spell, other than a Cantrip, until the end of your next turn is huge. At levels less than 5, not too bad, but after that, you're giving up the ability to cast some very powerful spells to save against a single attack. You do *not* get that bonus for the rest of your turn or round.
If this was usable X number of times, then ok.
Tactical Wit is good.
Deflecting Shroud is extremely situational, and to make the most use of it, you need to compromise your defenses to allow it to trigger.
Power Surge... on the fence. It's an interesting concept, but I do not like that the only way to charge it is via dispelling/counterspelling. This turns this feature into something that is only usable when fighting spell casters *AND* requires you to use your spell slots to stop the spell in order to power yourself up.
Completely underwhelmed by the War Magic subclass. The shield is ridiculously expensive and restricting.
+4 (with another +2 at 10th level) to saving throws is underwhelming? That's a hell of a boost to concentration saves and any other effect that could take you out of the fight.
Having higher initiative is also really good. Increases the chances you can take out an enemy before they can act, or if you're surprised it can prevent enemies from getting a turn while you can't take reactions.
The +2 from Durable Magic is not tied to the shield and is situational with having a Concentration spell up. Honestly, I'd put this as the shield ability you initially get. The cost of a Concentration spell in the early levels is pretty big (1/3 or 1/4 of your slots), easy to thwart as saves are hard, and Cantrip Concentration spells end when triggered, so re-applying the buff costs you an action.
The cost of being able to cast a spell, other than a Cantrip, until the end of your next turn is huge. At levels less than 5, not too bad, but after that, you're giving up the ability to cast some very powerful spells to save against a single attack. You do *not* get that bonus for the rest of your turn or round.
If this was usable X number of times, then ok.
Failing a concentration save and having to recast the spell is worse than being restricted to a cantrip. You're losing an action, a slot, and making no progress. A cantrip still contributes damage. You also can't take actions if you're dead or fail a save against an effect that would incapacitate you or force you to waste a turn casting Dispel Magic on yourself, so being restricted to a cantrip and succeeding on the save is still better.
A wizard's main weakness is being a glass cannon and War Magic reduces that weakness by a lot.
Power Surge and Deflecting Shrowd are just a bonus. Arcane Deflection, Tactical Wit and Durable Magic are where 80% of the subclass's power comes from, and they're enough to justify picking the subclass. Every subclass has a few class features that are situational, weaker, or not combat-oriented. e.g. Assassin Rogues get an incredibly powerful ability at level 3 and then their level 9 ability is purely social. Way of the Open Hand Monks get Sanctuary as their level 11 ability.
Both the Resilient and War Caster feats provide far better protection against this. Sure, you could stack Arcane Deflection with Resilient and it becomes a really good “ah crap” defense.
Sure, it frees up having to prep Shield as well.
I don’t know... this plus improved init just don’t seem like a good boost and neither scale particularly well either.
Both the Resilient and War Caster feats provide far better protection against this.
Maybe the reason why you aren't feeling the sub-class is potent enough at what it does is because you are forgetting that feats are an optional rule, so have zero bearing on whether or not the sub-class is doing what it does well enough or not?
Both the Resilient and War Caster feats provide far better protection against this.
Maybe the reason why you aren't feeling the sub-class is potent enough at what it does is because you are forgetting that feats are an optional rule, so have zero bearing on whether or not the sub-class is doing what it does well enough or not?
Eh, I just think it's pretty expensive and the Power Surge should be able to be "charged" in other ways than a 3rd-level spell, such as using your Arcane Deflection. I really don't like that it doesn't scale with your character.
Both the Resilient and War Caster feats provide far better protection against this. Sure, you could stack Arcane Deflection with Resilient and it becomes a really good “ah crap” defense.
Sure, it frees up having to prep Shield as well.
I don’t know... this plus improved init just don’t seem like a good boost and neither scale particularly well either.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Or...you could stack them. It's not an either/or thing. They absolutely work together, and they make the wizard that much more difficult to take out of the fight, which is a really good thing when they're already the most dangerous character on the playing field.
Both the Resilient and War Caster feats provide far better protection against this. Sure, you could stack Arcane Deflection with Resilient and it becomes a really good “ah crap” defense.
Sure, it frees up having to prep Shield as well.
I don’t know... this plus improved init just don’t seem like a good boost and neither scale particularly well either.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Or...you could stack them. It's not an either/or thing. They absolutely work together, and they make the wizard that much more difficult to take out of the fight, which is a really good thing when they're already the most dangerous character on the playing field.
You can stack the feats, sure. You can't stack shield though as both require your reaction.
I get it, it's cool when it pops and it gives a decent bonus when it does, but the class penalizes you for actually bringing up your defenses as two of your class abilities are tied to the fact that you are supposed to "just fail" in order to proc those - that, to me at least, is completely contrary to the point of the class.
why would anyone play with a dm that did not allow feats?
in 90% of games you should factor in feats.
For first time DMs or even first time players it can be helpful to limit the options to allow them to focus on playing the game rather than worrying if they picked the right 'thing'. This falls under the KISS mentality.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
i disagree with this as a good idea for learning to play d&d but even if one subscribes to it,
the general discussion of a game should not use training wheel steps as if they were how the vast % of players actually play the game.
That is an absolutely fair statement. There are those that want a simplified version (thus it being a variant rule) but the vast majority are so used to the presence of feats from 3.0 and onward that it is taken for granted as a base part of play.
I wonder if their reasoning for making it a variant rule was to appeal to AD&D veterans who may focus on the roleplay aspects vs the combat aspects.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
I have yet to play a Sorcerer. I helped build a Sorcerer for my fiance, and she is loving it so far. She hates the spell limitations, but I personally love it. I find a sense of fluidity when you have a small amount of things to work with. Find your ultimate list and build your combo with it... I play a Cleric and having so man spells to sift through gives me such a headache. Despite the options for so many spells and being able to interhcange them day by day, I tend to keep with my tried and true.
Hello!
Oh yeah, my wizard is so going to change to this...would've done this in the beginning!
A player since the great Dawn War, I've seen every edition flash before my eyes. I've wandered the plateau of Mystara (before it was Mystara), had spiced elven tea with Dalamar, composed spells with Mordenkeinan, and walked the ruins of Myth Drannor with the great Elminster himself — though I believe he was a cat at the time —. The scrolls and books that I have read have filled me with intrigue and seeing all of the imaginative constructs that other people come up with give me great joy
So, Xanathar's Guide is here. We have our War Mage subclass, and it seems... solid.
It seems to be more on the defensive side, closer to an Abjurer than to an Evoker. I'd still choose Evoker if I wanted to blast, but War Mage still has some offensive abilities. Overall, it is a fine subclass option, though I have to admit, it's a bit underwhelming.
I get it, of course - people liked War Mage more than they liked Theurge or Lore Master, so it made more sense for WotC to just include War Mage into Xanathar's Guide, instead of spending time and resources on improving Theurge and Lore Master to the point of acceptance by the player base. I think it was a tough competition, though, if all the posts about Theurge and Lore Master here are of any indication.
I like the Warmage but you're right...just ok. I like the initiative boost and the surge feature is pretty cool, but the shield was just so-so.
A player since the great Dawn War, I've seen every edition flash before my eyes. I've wandered the plateau of Mystara (before it was Mystara), had spiced elven tea with Dalamar, composed spells with Mordenkeinan, and walked the ruins of Myth Drannor with the great Elminster himself — though I believe he was a cat at the time —. The scrolls and books that I have read have filled me with intrigue and seeing all of the imaginative constructs that other people come up with give me great joy
War Mage could use more offensive feel. Or they could just make the capstone ability less... meh.
Completely underwhelmed by the War Magic subclass. The shield is ridiculously expensive and restricting.
How so?
The Forum Infestation (TM)
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Both the Resilient and War Caster feats provide far better protection against this. Sure, you could stack Arcane Deflection with Resilient and it becomes a really good “ah crap” defense.
Sure, it frees up having to prep Shield as well.
I don’t know... this plus improved init just don’t seem like a good boost and neither scale particularly well either.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Forum Infestation (TM)
why would anyone play with a dm that did not allow feats?
in 90% of games you should factor in feats.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
i disagree with this as a good idea for learning to play d&d but even if one subscribes to it,
the general discussion of a game should not use training wheel steps as if they were how the vast % of players actually play the game.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."