I am curious, what are some other good cantrips to use as part of the Extra Attack feature that are not Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade?
For example, is it worth giving up one attack (or damage cantrip) to cast Blade Ward to enhance your defense or Gust to push an enemy away? What are some of the more creative cantrip choices beyond just dealing damage?
Spells like. Thorn Whip and Lightning Lure are good choices. One attack to bring them close and a second attack to do stabby things. Create Bonfire would also be an option of you have the Sentinel feat. Light a literal fire under their a** and them make sure they can't leave.
Very interesting ideas, although Im not a big fan on the "pull and slash" combo for Lightning Lure because if you fail to pull them then you dont get to use your weapon attack.
The rule doesn't call for an ally within 5ft of your target. It calls for an enemy of the target within 5ft of the target. Is an animal which has taken no aggressive actions towards your target other than sitting on your shoulder considered an enemy to your target? Debatable.
If it takes the help action, then it can be considered an enemy but can be shot down immediately, especially when considering the shenanigans of "my familiar uses help action and then hides in my pocket".
It's difficult for me to reconcile the logic needed to define an enemy as anything other than "a creature with a hostile relationship to you". Requiring a hostile action (or the ability to threaten as @Jounichi1983 suggests) makes everything more complicated.
This is overengineering the problem and more to the point who is to say the familiar does not have a hostile relationship to its summoner? A familiar is literally the slave of the summoner, but that does not mean it is an ally and/or not hostile. This is especailly true of it is a fiend.
Who is to say your fiend familiar is not hostile towards you and friendly towards the devil you are fighting, and if we are going down that road what if the devil has pack tactics, does he then have advantage on YOU.
You could argue that the familiar is not intelligent enough to be hostile towards you (depending on what creature it is), but then it probably is not intelligent enough to be hostile towards the guy you are fighting either.
The rule doesn't call for an ally within 5ft of your target. It calls for an enemy of the target within 5ft of the target. Is an animal which has taken no aggressive actions towards your target other than sitting on your shoulder considered an enemy to your target? Debatable.
If it takes the help action, then it can be considered an enemy but can be shot down immediately, especially when considering the shenanigans of "my familiar uses help action and then hides in my pocket".
It's difficult for me to reconcile the logic needed to define an enemy as anything other than "a creature with a hostile relationship to you". Requiring a hostile action (or the ability to threaten as @Jounichi1983 suggests) makes everything more complicated.
This is overengineering the problem and more to the point who is to say the familiar does not have a hostile relationship to its summoner? A familiar is literally the slave of the summoner, but that does not mean it is an ally and/or not hostile. This is especailly true of it is a fiend.
Who is to say your fiend familiar is not hostile towards you and friendly towards the devil you are fighting, and if we are going down that road what if the devil has pack tactics, does he then have advantage on YOU.
You could argue that the familiar is not intelligent enough to be hostile towards you (depending on what creature it is), but then it probably is not intelligent enough to be hostile towards the guy you are fighting either.
A familiar being an ally and enabling Sneak Attack has long been settled since Crawford tweeted about it way back when Crawford's tweets were considered official.
The rule doesn't call for an ally within 5ft of your target. It calls for an enemy of the target within 5ft of the target. Is an animal which has taken no aggressive actions towards your target other than sitting on your shoulder considered an enemy to your target? Debatable.
If it takes the help action, then it can be considered an enemy but can be shot down immediately, especially when considering the shenanigans of "my familiar uses help action and then hides in my pocket".
It's difficult for me to reconcile the logic needed to define an enemy as anything other than "a creature with a hostile relationship to you". Requiring a hostile action (or the ability to threaten as @Jounichi1983 suggests) makes everything more complicated.
This is overengineering the problem and more to the point who is to say the familiar does not have a hostile relationship to its summoner? A familiar is literally the slave of the summoner, but that does not mean it is an ally and/or not hostile. This is especailly true of it is a fiend.
Who is to say your fiend familiar is not hostile towards you and friendly towards the devil you are fighting, and if we are going down that road what if the devil has pack tactics, does he then have advantage on YOU.
You could argue that the familiar is not intelligent enough to be hostile towards you (depending on what creature it is), but then it probably is not intelligent enough to be hostile towards the guy you are fighting either.
A familiar being an ally and enabling Sneak Attack has long been settled since Crawford tweeted about it way back when Crawford's tweets were considered official.
It's even in the official Sage Advice Compendium here on DDB.
That post addresses the help action. We are not talking about a familiar using the help action. Any creature, including a familiar, can use the help action and give the Rogue advantage thereby affording sneak attack. Being an ally or being hostile is not relevant to that.
We are talking about a familiar who is NOT using the help action but causing sneak attack due to the proximity rule from the PHB: "You don't need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it ..."\
So your crab familiar is hiding in your backpack or your raven is perched on your shoulder, or your spider is clinging to your back. You move and attack. The familiar did NOT use the help action but it is within 5 feet of the enemy when you attack.
The relevant question here - is it an enemy of the target if it is not doing anything to the target? The Rogue certainly is an enemy of the target, the familiar certainly is an enemy if it is helping the Rogue. I don't think it is if it is doing nothing.
The answer about being an ally for Sneak Attack is not related to the Help action. It's answering a separate question. Like I said, it's even in the Sage Advice Compendium.
A familiar is an allied creature. Its proximity to a target can allow you to use the Sneak Attack feature or any other feature that requires the presence of an ally.
The answer about being an ally for Sneak Attack is not related to the Help action. It's answering a separate question. Like I said, it's even in the Sage Advice Compendium.
A familiar is an allied creature. Its proximity to a target can allow you to use the Sneak Attack feature or any other feature that requires the presence of an ally.
Ok. That said, the wording of the second sentance is not consistent with RAW as sneak attack is not based on having an ally in proximity of the targer, it is based on having an enemy of the target in proximity to it.
I will concede though that this particular line indicates RAI is that the familiar would be an enemy for sneak attack purposes.
I still cannot imagine a scenario where I would rule a creature that is your ally is not then an enemy to those hostile to you... but that's probably off topic for this section.
The answer about being an ally for Sneak Attack is not related to the Help action. It's answering a separate question. Like I said, it's even in the Sage Advice Compendium.
A familiar is an allied creature. Its proximity to a target can allow you to use the Sneak Attack feature or any other feature that requires the presence of an ally.
And Sneak Attack doesn't care about allied creatures. It cares about the target's enemies.
Sneak Attack
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.
The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue table.
The implication would seem to be that any allied creature could be an enemy of the target. Except there are also noncombatants, which some adventures specifically call attention to, that could also be allied.
RAI, I can accept that a summoned familiar is an enemy for the purpose of Sneak Attack. It makes sense, and it's likely how almost every table has played it. That said, Sage Advice is only advice. It isn't binding, and it cannot be cited as how the rules must be played. For example, since spells are a class feature and the creature only exists because of a spell, then it's reasonable to say it's an extension of the spellcaster. So I do think there is a case to be made for it not granting a multiclassed rogue Sneak Attack, by virtue of its mere presence, and I won't begrudge a DM who makes such a ruling. But that's why the help action exists.
Noncombatant or not, if it's allied to you, I don't see how it wouldn't be an enemy of the things trying to kill you. If it's allied to you, why would it be considered neutral to your foes?
EDIT: if you're looking for a reason the book says "enemy of the target" instead of "ally to you", I'd argue it's solely to expand the cases where Sneak Attack applies — to allow creatures who are hostile to *both* you and the target to enable Sneak Attack *as well as* your allies.
All my choices assume, that the character takes 3 levels of either Battlesmith or Armorer. In the latter case, with studded leather as arcane armor, so the character can still use Bladesong.
Weapons are basically a matter of personal taste, as long as you have 3 artificer levels, you attack with Intelligence. If you have armorer levels, you will certaily use the gauntlets. Also keep in mind that you have spells like shadowblade.
Telekinetic is useful for some additional control and versatility, in addition to giving you a point in intelligence.
If you chose armorer as your artificer subclass you will likely want dual-wield, which also lets you increase your AC.
Resilient (Dexterity): You may have good Constitution and Intelligence saves and an extremely high AC. You don't have many HP though and high damage spells can still ruin your day. They often have Dexterity saving throws for half damage, therefore the feat may be useful.
Shield, Tasha's Mind Whip, Shadowblade, Haste, Fireshield, Forcecage, Foresight and Invulnerability are all great spells.
Tough: Same problem as above. You have little HP, this feat gives you rather many, so it's usually worth it, especially if you are the group's main melee warrior.
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+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
A little advice from experienced Bladesingers required.
I'm playing a 4th level Bladesinger. He is a Shadar-kai elf with good ability scores, 19 Dex, 19 Int and 15 Con. At 4th level he took the Warcaster feat. This character is about to enter the prime levels if you like of being a Bladesinger, at least it sounds like it based on what I've read. Currently he holds a magical staff in one hand and a rapier in the other. Spellwise he makes use of Shield, Silvery Barbs, Blur with the occasional Rime's Binding Ice, Magic Missile and Sleep thrown in.
My question is how plan him going forward, in particular, what Feat to take at 8th level. There are many he would like but I've narrowed it down to the following:
Elven Accuracy (with either Dex or Int), Telekinesis (Int) or Resilient Dex.
I am inclined to take Elven Accuracy with Intelligence but I'm interested if anyone has a major argument for Telekinesis or something else. (I've put Resilient Con on the backburner given the character has Warcaster).
A little advice from experienced Bladesingers required.
I'm playing a 4th level Bladesinger. He is a Shadar-kai elf with good ability scores, 19 Dex, 19 Int and 15 Con. At 4th level he took the Warcaster feat. This character is about to enter the prime levels if you like of being a Bladesinger, at least it sounds like it based on what I've read. Currently he holds a magical staff in one hand and a rapier in the other. Spellwise he makes use of Shield, Silvery Barbs, Blur with the occasional Rime's Binding Ice, Magic Missile and Sleep thrown in.
My question is how plan him going forward, in particular, what Feat to take at 8th level. There are many he would like but I've narrowed it down to the following:
Elven Accuracy (with either Dex or Int), Telekinesis (Int) or Resilient Dex.
I am inclined to take Elven Accuracy with Intelligence but I'm interested if anyone has a major argument for Telekinesis or something else. (I've put Resilient Con on the backburner given the character has Warcaster).
So I have played a lot of bladesingers going as high as 16th level. I am not a fan of any of the feats you mention on a bladesinger. A lot of people love Elven accuracy but I have been underwhelmed by it on the characters I play. My biggest issue with it is when you don't have advantage it does nothing and when you do have advantage you are usually going to hit the enemy whether you have this or not. So it is not that impactful and has a minimal impact on your DPR. It would be a lot better if it canceled disadvantage instead of boosting advantage or alternatively if it allowed you to grant yourself advantage with no action when you did not have it for PB uses per day.
Telekenetic is a good feat, but it is best on characters with little else to use on a bonus action. You have both blessing of the Raven Queen and Bladesong, so you are not going to be using it a lot I don't think (or alternatively you won't be using these). Dex saves are mostly for save for half damage elemental effects. You already have resistance through blessing of the Raven queen and you should keep absorb elements prepared so I think it is limited utility.
If it were me I would take either Fey Touched with Dissonant Whispers or Command or Shadow Touched with false life and boost intelligence to 20. Being an Elf and being from the Shadowfell (at least your species is) makes both of these feats very thematic.
Misty step is not that great since you already have blessing of the Raven, but it gives you one more use if you run out. The real value of Fey Touched is having DW or Command with Warcaster. You can throw out either the command "flee" or use DW and then when they leave your reach you can cast another spell on them or use booming blade as your AOO. Also these pair particularly well if you have cause fear - cast DW/command and get them to run, then hit them with cause fear on the AOO. They move away and can not move closer. Tasha's Mind Whip works well for this too, albeit only for 1 round. Of these two I prefer Dissonant Whispers, but both have strengths. DW works on anything and does some damage, command is more versatile and can be used for things besides making enemies run and it can be upcast to affect more than one enemy, but is limited to non-undead that speak your language.
Invisibility from Shadow Touched is generally not as good as MS, but on your character it will probably be better. If you want to stay a frontline melee character, at some point you want to get False Life and upcast it with higher level slots and this is one way to get it without using a prepared slot. Alternatively you can get cause fear for use on AOOs.
My second choice after one of these feats would be an ASI in both dex and intelligence to boost your attacks, spells by 1 and AC by 2 in bladesong.
Thank you for your in-depth response. You have given me a few things to think about.
Quick question re Resilient Dex: does making ones Dex save plus using Absorb elements (or alternatively Blessing of the RQ) effectively amount to 1/4 damage from said elemental damage?
Thank you for your in-depth response. You have given me a few things to think about.
Quick question re Resilient Dex: does making ones Dex save plus using Absorb elements (or alternatively Blessing of the RQ) effectively amount to 1/4 damage from said elemental damage?
Yes it does, but in terms of the math it is a small payout. For example of you get hit with a 32 point fireball .... use use absorb elements and only take 16 damage ..... if you make your save and you only take 8 damage. Si in this case making your save only results in 8 less damage, but you spent a feat on it and some of those times you would have saved anyway without resilent.
So to me the payoff is not big for something you are not going to be faced with and can do with spells.
One other option if you really want the dex proficiency is to take an intelligence feat at 8 and resilient at 12. Having the higher proficiency bonus makes resilient more valuable at higher levels than at lower levels and having daily free casts of spells is better at lower levels when you have fewer total slots.
Thank you for your in-depth response. You have given me a few things to think about.
Quick question re Resilient Dex: does making ones Dex save plus using Absorb elements (or alternatively Blessing of the RQ) effectively amount to 1/4 damage from said elemental damage?
Yes it does, but in terms of the math it is a small payout. For example of you get hit with a 32 point fireball .... use use absorb elements and only take 16 damage ..... if you make your save and you only take 8 damage. Si in this case making your save only results in 8 less damage, but you spent a feat on it and some of those times you would have saved anyway without resilent.
So to me the payoff is not big for something you are not going to be faced with and can do with spells.
One other option if you really want the dex proficiency is to take an intelligence feat at 8 and resilient at 12. Having the higher proficiency bonus makes resilient more valuable at higher levels than at lower levels and having daily free casts of spells is better at lower levels when you have fewer total slots.
Good luck!
Wouldn't it be the other way around. You should know whether you made the save or not before damage is applied.
Wouldn't it be the other way around. You should know whether you made the save or not before damage is applied.
Yes you are right, in any case the math is the same, the proficiency in that example could save you 8hps of damage if it is the difference between making the save and failing it.
Thanks guys. You have certainly convinced me to maximise Intelligence prior to Dexterity. I think I'll see how the next few levels pan out, see how often Dex saves are required, how often I get Advantage, that sort of thing, and go from there.
Short term, maxing Int plus Dex is most beneficial but I suspect half feats are better long term. With that said, if I take the ASI path at level 8 I can take completley different feats afterwards such as Alert and Lucky.
Wouldn't it be the other way around. You should know whether you made the save or not before damage is applied.
Yes you are right, in any case the math is the same, the proficiency in that example could save you 8hps of damage if it is the difference between making the save and failing it.
No the case is not the same. If Absorb Elements had to be resolved before knowing the results of the DEX save chances are you will have to cast it a lot more often to ensure you take less damage. This would make making DEX saves a lot less useful in this instance.
Wouldn't it be the other way around. You should know whether you made the save or not before damage is applied.
Yes you are right, in any case the math is the same, the proficiency in that example could save you 8hps of damage if it is the difference between making the save and failing it.
No the case is not the same. If Absorb Elements had to be resolved before knowing the results of the DEX save chances are you will have to cast it a lot more often to ensure you take less damage. This would make making DEX saves a lot less useful in this instance.
IME you don't cast it a lot anyway. I have never ran out of slots because I cast AE too much. If you have AE you are usually going to cast it, whether you make your save or not.
Wouldn't it be the other way around. You should know whether you made the save or not before damage is applied.
Yes you are right, in any case the math is the same, the proficiency in that example could save you 8hps of damage if it is the difference between making the save and failing it.
No the case is not the same. If Absorb Elements had to be resolved before knowing the results of the DEX save chances are you will have to cast it a lot more often to ensure you take less damage. This would make making DEX saves a lot less useful in this instance.
IME you don't cast it a lot anyway. I have never ran out of slots because I cast AE too much. If you have AE you are usually going to cast it, whether you make your save or not.
This is true in most cases except DEX saves, which if you make the save functions as a quasi Absorb Elements giving you the option of saving the spell slot or further reducing the damage. My only argument was with the initial post I replied to in which you implied that DEX saves get resolved after Absorb Elements.
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You can, you'd just have to move to them first.
This is overengineering the problem and more to the point who is to say the familiar does not have a hostile relationship to its summoner? A familiar is literally the slave of the summoner, but that does not mean it is an ally and/or not hostile. This is especailly true of it is a fiend.
Who is to say your fiend familiar is not hostile towards you and friendly towards the devil you are fighting, and if we are going down that road what if the devil has pack tactics, does he then have advantage on YOU.
You could argue that the familiar is not intelligent enough to be hostile towards you (depending on what creature it is), but then it probably is not intelligent enough to be hostile towards the guy you are fighting either.
A familiar being an ally and enabling Sneak Attack has long been settled since Crawford tweeted about it way back when Crawford's tweets were considered official.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/can-a-familiar-use-help-to-grant-advantage-at-range/
It's even in the official Sage Advice Compendium here on DDB.
That post addresses the help action. We are not talking about a familiar using the help action. Any creature, including a familiar, can use the help action and give the Rogue advantage thereby affording sneak attack. Being an ally or being hostile is not relevant to that.
We are talking about a familiar who is NOT using the help action but causing sneak attack due to the proximity rule from the PHB: "You don't need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it ..."\
So your crab familiar is hiding in your backpack or your raven is perched on your shoulder, or your spider is clinging to your back. You move and attack. The familiar did NOT use the help action but it is within 5 feet of the enemy when you attack.
The relevant question here - is it an enemy of the target if it is not doing anything to the target? The Rogue certainly is an enemy of the target, the familiar certainly is an enemy if it is helping the Rogue. I don't think it is if it is doing nothing.
The answer about being an ally for Sneak Attack is not related to the Help action. It's answering a separate question. Like I said, it's even in the Sage Advice Compendium.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA185
Ok. That said, the wording of the second sentance is not consistent with RAW as sneak attack is not based on having an ally in proximity of the targer, it is based on having an enemy of the target in proximity to it.
I will concede though that this particular line indicates RAI is that the familiar would be an enemy for sneak attack purposes.
I still cannot imagine a scenario where I would rule a creature that is your ally is not then an enemy to those hostile to you... but that's probably off topic for this section.
And Sneak Attack doesn't care about allied creatures. It cares about the target's enemies.
The implication would seem to be that any allied creature could be an enemy of the target. Except there are also noncombatants, which some adventures specifically call attention to, that could also be allied.
RAI, I can accept that a summoned familiar is an enemy for the purpose of Sneak Attack. It makes sense, and it's likely how almost every table has played it. That said, Sage Advice is only advice. It isn't binding, and it cannot be cited as how the rules must be played. For example, since spells are a class feature and the creature only exists because of a spell, then it's reasonable to say it's an extension of the spellcaster. So I do think there is a case to be made for it not granting a multiclassed rogue Sneak Attack, by virtue of its mere presence, and I won't begrudge a DM who makes such a ruling. But that's why the help action exists.
Noncombatant or not, if it's allied to you, I don't see how it wouldn't be an enemy of the things trying to kill you. If it's allied to you, why would it be considered neutral to your foes?
EDIT: if you're looking for a reason the book says "enemy of the target" instead of "ally to you", I'd argue it's solely to expand the cases where Sneak Attack applies — to allow creatures who are hostile to *both* you and the target to enable Sneak Attack *as well as* your allies.
All my choices assume, that the character takes 3 levels of either Battlesmith or Armorer. In the latter case, with studded leather as arcane armor, so the character can still use Bladesong.
Weapons are basically a matter of personal taste, as long as you have 3 artificer levels, you attack with Intelligence. If you have armorer levels, you will certaily use the gauntlets. Also keep in mind that you have spells like shadowblade.
Telekinetic is useful for some additional control and versatility, in addition to giving you a point in intelligence.
If you chose armorer as your artificer subclass you will likely want dual-wield, which also lets you increase your AC.
Resilient (Dexterity): You may have good Constitution and Intelligence saves and an extremely high AC. You don't have many HP though and high damage spells can still ruin your day. They often have Dexterity saving throws for half damage, therefore the feat may be useful.
Shield, Tasha's Mind Whip, Shadowblade, Haste, Fireshield, Forcecage, Foresight and Invulnerability are all great spells.
Tough: Same problem as above. You have little HP, this feat gives you rather many, so it's usually worth it, especially if you are the group's main melee warrior.
+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
A little advice from experienced Bladesingers required.
I'm playing a 4th level Bladesinger. He is a Shadar-kai elf with good ability scores, 19 Dex, 19 Int and 15 Con. At 4th level he took the Warcaster feat. This character is about to enter the prime levels if you like of being a Bladesinger, at least it sounds like it based on what I've read. Currently he holds a magical staff in one hand and a rapier in the other. Spellwise he makes use of Shield, Silvery Barbs, Blur with the occasional Rime's Binding Ice, Magic Missile and Sleep thrown in.
My question is how plan him going forward, in particular, what Feat to take at 8th level. There are many he would like but I've narrowed it down to the following:
Elven Accuracy (with either Dex or Int), Telekinesis (Int) or Resilient Dex.
I am inclined to take Elven Accuracy with Intelligence but I'm interested if anyone has a major argument for Telekinesis or something else. (I've put Resilient Con on the backburner given the character has Warcaster).
So I have played a lot of bladesingers going as high as 16th level. I am not a fan of any of the feats you mention on a bladesinger. A lot of people love Elven accuracy but I have been underwhelmed by it on the characters I play. My biggest issue with it is when you don't have advantage it does nothing and when you do have advantage you are usually going to hit the enemy whether you have this or not. So it is not that impactful and has a minimal impact on your DPR. It would be a lot better if it canceled disadvantage instead of boosting advantage or alternatively if it allowed you to grant yourself advantage with no action when you did not have it for PB uses per day.
Telekenetic is a good feat, but it is best on characters with little else to use on a bonus action. You have both blessing of the Raven Queen and Bladesong, so you are not going to be using it a lot I don't think (or alternatively you won't be using these). Dex saves are mostly for save for half damage elemental effects. You already have resistance through blessing of the Raven queen and you should keep absorb elements prepared so I think it is limited utility.
If it were me I would take either Fey Touched with Dissonant Whispers or Command or Shadow Touched with false life and boost intelligence to 20. Being an Elf and being from the Shadowfell (at least your species is) makes both of these feats very thematic.
Misty step is not that great since you already have blessing of the Raven, but it gives you one more use if you run out. The real value of Fey Touched is having DW or Command with Warcaster. You can throw out either the command "flee" or use DW and then when they leave your reach you can cast another spell on them or use booming blade as your AOO. Also these pair particularly well if you have cause fear - cast DW/command and get them to run, then hit them with cause fear on the AOO. They move away and can not move closer. Tasha's Mind Whip works well for this too, albeit only for 1 round. Of these two I prefer Dissonant Whispers, but both have strengths. DW works on anything and does some damage, command is more versatile and can be used for things besides making enemies run and it can be upcast to affect more than one enemy, but is limited to non-undead that speak your language.
Invisibility from Shadow Touched is generally not as good as MS, but on your character it will probably be better. If you want to stay a frontline melee character, at some point you want to get False Life and upcast it with higher level slots and this is one way to get it without using a prepared slot. Alternatively you can get cause fear for use on AOOs.
My second choice after one of these feats would be an ASI in both dex and intelligence to boost your attacks, spells by 1 and AC by 2 in bladesong.
Thank you for your in-depth response. You have given me a few things to think about.
Quick question re Resilient Dex: does making ones Dex save plus using Absorb elements (or alternatively Blessing of the RQ) effectively amount to 1/4 damage from said elemental damage?
Yes it does, but in terms of the math it is a small payout. For example of you get hit with a 32 point fireball .... use use absorb elements and only take 16 damage ..... if you make your save and you only take 8 damage. Si in this case making your save only results in 8 less damage, but you spent a feat on it and some of those times you would have saved anyway without resilent.
So to me the payoff is not big for something you are not going to be faced with and can do with spells.
One other option if you really want the dex proficiency is to take an intelligence feat at 8 and resilient at 12. Having the higher proficiency bonus makes resilient more valuable at higher levels than at lower levels and having daily free casts of spells is better at lower levels when you have fewer total slots.
Good luck!
Wouldn't it be the other way around. You should know whether you made the save or not before damage is applied.
Yes you are right, in any case the math is the same, the proficiency in that example could save you 8hps of damage if it is the difference between making the save and failing it.
Thanks guys. You have certainly convinced me to maximise Intelligence prior to Dexterity. I think I'll see how the next few levels pan out, see how often Dex saves are required, how often I get Advantage, that sort of thing, and go from there.
Short term, maxing Int plus Dex is most beneficial but I suspect half feats are better long term. With that said, if I take the ASI path at level 8 I can take completley different feats afterwards such as Alert and Lucky.
No the case is not the same. If Absorb Elements had to be resolved before knowing the results of the DEX save chances are you will have to cast it a lot more often to ensure you take less damage. This would make making DEX saves a lot less useful in this instance.
IME you don't cast it a lot anyway. I have never ran out of slots because I cast AE too much. If you have AE you are usually going to cast it, whether you make your save or not.
This is true in most cases except DEX saves, which if you make the save functions as a quasi Absorb Elements giving you the option of saving the spell slot or further reducing the damage. My only argument was with the initial post I replied to in which you implied that DEX saves get resolved after Absorb Elements.