For most wizard subclasses, I see a strategy in there that can be used. Necromancers can have an undead army, evokers can do big blasts without worrying about allies, abjurers have their ward, conjurers have summons. I know about mind spike and expert divination, but is there anything else I can do to improve my divination wizard strategy? He is level 8. I have the lucky feat already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDUkKqlaIcw&t=768s  .This just came out the other day. I like these guys I am not sure how much of this info you my know already. cheers 

I think you strategize on how to use your portent, and your plentiful divination spells. Also, your spells aren't restricted by what subclass you are, you can easily use fireball or have an undead army(even if it is smaller than what a necromancer would have). You could also strategize on how to collect information from your spells or use them to your benefit in clever ways. 

Using Portent is what makes the Divination wizard special.  If you roll high, you can use it to automatically hit with an important to hit spell like Chromatic Orb or Scorching Ray.  If you roll low, use it on a spell that requires a save like Hold Person or Cause Fear.  If you get a 20 for your portent roll, use it on your rogue for one of their attacks or on some high damage spell that requires an attack roll.  

You also have a lot of spells that will give you information and it'll be important to use it for information gathering.  Scrying is a good one for this and you can use portent to force the target to fail the throw.  

Quote from Kendis >>

You also have a lot of spells that will give you information and it'll be important to use it for information gathering.  Scrying is a good one for this and you can use portent to force the target to fail the throw.   

I've been curious about this myself. Portents specifically states that it is a roll made by a creature that you can currently *see*, so would that not exclude a scrying target?

Quote from TonashDrahow >>

Quote from Kendis >>

You also have a lot of spells that will give you information and it'll be important to use it for information gathering.  Scrying is a good one for this and you can use portent to force the target to fail the throw.   

 

I've been curious about this myself. Portents specifically states that it is a roll made by a creature that you can currently *see*, so would that not exclude a scrying target?

That's a good point.  I suppose you don't see the scrying target until after the save is failed so it wouldn't work.

Suggestion + a low Portent die = taking any one bad guy out of the fight.

"Do 782 pushups"

"Walk to the next town and get me an ale."

"Go plant a garden"

"Count to 13 million slowly"

"Hunt me up a rabbit and cook it for me"

Suggestion > Fear& Hold Person ---> No later saving throw, no one minute timer

Pretty sure this has been posted elsewhere, or maybe Reddit. Or both.

But, if your div wiz is 6+:

Expert Divination

Beginning at 6th level, casting divination spells comes so easily to you that it expends only a fraction of your spellcasting efforts. When you cast a divination spell of 2nd level or higher using a spell slot, you regain one expended spell slot. The slot you regain must be of a level lower than the spell you cast and can’t be higher than 5th level.

PLUS: Mind Spike

Turns into a potent long-term, damage output with minimal spell slots lost. Admittedly, you do not make full use of the concentration added effects, but the sheer damage output is notable.

Quote from TonashDrahow >>

Mind Spike

Turns into a potent long-term, damage output with minimal spell slots lost. Admittedly, you do not make full use of the concentration added effects, but the sheer damage output is notable.

Mind Spike is good but like you said - it's concentration - which means if you are concentrating on another spell - casting Mind Spike will force you to stop concentrating on it immediately. So that Barbarian you hasted is now stunned for a round. Or that enemy you banished has suddenly returned. Etc..

It's handy for minimising spell slot loss but it's disruptive.

Magic Jar is a lot more safe to use than any other wizard if you can portent high enough at the start of the day.

Other wizards have to freak out and try and make a CHA save if their vessel dies. Its just an irritation for a divination wizard. Something to look into.

At 6th level, a non-Divination Wizard can cast 11 spells per day.

Utilizing Mind Spike a 6 level Divination Wizard can cast 22 spells per day.

While not a DPR increase, in a long fight OR in a situation where a Long Rest is not available, you are in the fight for more rounds.

If you play in a game of "medium length fight" ---> Long Rest on a consistent basis, then it would not be beneficial.

btw: Great walk through the math of it all here.

Problem is - a Divination Wizard using ALL their spell slots on Mind Spike and Magic Missiles is a pretty useless Divination Wizard. They should be casting Divination spells to scout and collect information - not purely for damage - especially after getting Expert Divination for spell slot recovery.

^Well not just that but you aren't concentrating on a Hypnotic Pattern or Web etc if you're doing Mind Spike cheese, not good.

Yea I mentioned that in reply 9. It's probably the single biggest issue with Mind Spike. The Concentration effect is hyper-situational and useless at all other times - but you can't choose not to concentrate on it.

Quote from Thonwil >>

At 6th level, a non-Divination Wizard can cast 11 spells per day.

Utilizing Mind Spike a 6 level Divination Wizard can cast 22 spells per day.

While not a DPR increase, in a long fight OR in a situation where a Long Rest is not available, you are in the fight for more rounds.

If you play in a game of "medium length fight" ---> Long Rest on a consistent basis, then it would not be beneficial.

 

btw: Great walk through the math of it all here.

 Wouldn't cantrips work well? They are after all, at no cost.

Banishment is great, just instantly make an extraplanar creature be gone.

The definition states:

Expert Divination

Beginning at 6th level, casting divination spells comes so easily to you that it expends only a fraction of your spellcasting efforts. When you cast a divination spell of 2nd level or higher using a spell slot, you regain one expended spell slot. The slot you regain must be of a level lower than the spell you cast and can’t be higher than 5th level.

So a 'no' on Cantrips.

No, I was just saying, cantrips do okay damage compared to mind spike(usually), and are free... at 5th a firebolt would do 2d10, and scales as you go on, I am just saying it isn't broken or OP.

Yes thats what everybody thinks when he sees it but have you ever taken the time to calculate the damage? Furhter its concentration? Its a horrible spell and a trap for everybody who doesnt run the numbers. Even just cast magic missle and use toll the dead creates far more damage for the sama amount of turn you do your mind spike cascate but with the first approach you can concentrate on a good spell. The later this bad dps is all you do.

i am confused how often i see this build. Dont people calculate dps builds or do i have a error inmy calculation? I just did it in 5 min on excel, but the amount of spells at level 6 (22 spells) matched my analysis. As both mind spike and toll the dead use saving throws i ignored that. You cast a bit more magic missle which is auto hit. So changing it will even weaken mind spike cascate build even more?

They even do shitty damage compared to just cast magic missle and toll the dead. Calculated it this morning. Its like 20% worse compared to the mind spike, magic missle cascate. Try it for your self. Not ro mention the concentration.

weird that this build become so popular when checking takes 5 min in an excel. Maybe i did a mistake?