If this is in Forgotten Realms there is lore on why some forms of explosives do not work. That is why gunpowder is not in Forgotten Realms. It would not be a stretch to declare this lore to change how the above problem functions.
Uhh... Gunpowder isn't not in forgotten realms. There is even a suggested price table.
Just because there is a price table and it is included in the books does not make it lore in forgotten realms as DnD is not just forgotten realms and the books include things for other settings like homebrew worlds.
Lore Wise , Gond, god of Craftsmen and Scientists, made the original formula for gunpowder chemically inert. He did, however, gift his priests with Smokepowder, which allows them to produce firearms and other weapons. It is not a stretch to say other forms of chemical reactions were also made inert.
DMs can do anything they want though but if they go by lore and actual settings then no gunpowder is not in Forgotten realms.
That doesn't seem to be referenced anywhere in 5e.
Gunpowder can be found in CoS (which I realize takes place in a demiplane).
It is also mentioned several times in the giff's description.
But no where in 5e is it mentioned gunpowder doesn't work in the forgotten realms (and WotC has changed other bits of lore occasionally).
If this is in Forgotten Realms there is lore on why some forms of explosives do not work. That is why gunpowder is not in Forgotten Realms. It would not be a stretch to declare this lore to change how the above problem functions.
Uhh... Gunpowder isn't not in forgotten realms. There is even a suggested price table.
Just because there is a price table and it is included in the books does not make it lore in forgotten realms as DnD is not just forgotten realms and the books include things for other settings like homebrew worlds.
Lore Wise , Gond, god of Craftsmen and Scientists, made the original formula for gunpowder chemically inert. He did, however, gift his priests with Smokepowder, which allows them to produce firearms and other weapons. It is not a stretch to say other forms of chemical reactions were also made inert.
DMs can do anything they want though but if they go by lore and actual settings then no gunpowder is not in Forgotten realms.
That doesn't seem to be referenced anywhere in 5e.
Gunpowder can be found in CoS (which I realize takes place in a demiplane).
It is also mentioned several times in the giff's description.
But no where in 5e is it mentioned gunpowder doesn't work in the forgotten realms (and WotC has changed other bits of lore occasionally).
please peaople, read the dungeon masters guide, it is RIGHT THERE IN THE HANDBOOK JUST READ IT THE CHAPTER ON DUNGEON MASTERS WORKSHOP YOU KNOW THE ONE WITH THE GUNS AND SPACE LAZERS AND SAITY CHECK YES THAT CHAPTER GO THERE READ THE THING IT IS NOT HARD PEOPLE
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
please peaople, read the dungeon masters guide, it is RIGHT THERE IN THE HANDBOOK JUST READ IT THE CHAPTER ON DUNGEON MASTERS WORKSHOP YOU KNOW THE ONE WITH THE GUNS AND SPACE LAZERS AND SAITY CHECK YES THAT CHAPTER GO THERE READ THE THING IT IS NOT HARD PEOPLE
Yeah, that is what we were discussing. I even linked it. Who is this comment for?
What is the difference between gunpowder and smoke powder? And of course gunpowder won't ignite (work at all) in the Realms. Saltpeter (by itself) will burn, not explode. Smokepowder will.
Just because it is in the DnD books does not make it LORE in forgotten realms. The DMG for example has rules for computers, cell phones, lasers, and any type of futuristic gear you can think of. Want a Fall-out Power Armor. Well there is rules on how to add it. Want to create Borg or Sky-net there is a section on how to add Alien Technology.
DMs can add anything they want to their games and make any changes. But as soon as they do the settings becomes HOMEBREW and not the official lore based settings. There is nothing wrong with that and all the campaigns I DM are Homebrewed and I use the other official settings as my base. It is still Homebrew though.
I am not going to argue Lore about guns to gun fanboys here. Go to the lore section of the forums and you can get more details and information. The only reason I mentioned it was because the OP could have used it to help with his/her problem and based it on Lore.
What is the difference between gunpowder and smoke powder? And of course gunpowder won't ignite (work at all) in the Realms. Saltpeter (by itself) will burn, not explode. Smokepowder will.
Just because it is in the DnD books does not make it LORE in forgotten realms.
And just because it is more to the forgotten realms does not make it a rule in 5e. But I will grant you that smokepowder is mentioned more times and in more books than gunpowder is.
I am not going to argue Lore about guns to gun fanboys here. Go to the lore section of the forums and you can get more details and information. The only reason I mentioned it was because the OP could have used it to help with his/her problem and based it on Lore.
I'm not a gun fanboy, don't make assumptions about my character. I am a rule fanboy. And I am not arguing about the overall lore of forgotten realms (because I have little doubt you are correct), just the 5e sourcebooks.
Your suggestion is precedent for the DM to have made that kind of decision and I'm sorry to have distracted from that, but of course since francium being inert is not part of the official lore (I assume) and not in 5e sourcebooks, it still would have been a house rule (which based on the paragraphs of your comment I cut, you seem to be against). Plus the wizard in question choose francium because they knew it was unstable and reactive, so they would have chosen something that works that way in the lore in that case.
Sorry if i can off a little cross. My DM group on Saturday has a DM who is really against guns in DnD and with Artificer being released it has caused some issues. One player really loves them and it broke the group apart that has been together for years.
Francium is unstable stuff. It is radioactive and oxidizes very quickly and energetically. They probably don't even need to use create water. A 7800 lb cube of it really doesn't want to exist (that is literally 100000 times what is actually predicted to naturally exist on earth at any given moment). The heat of it's own decay would cause it to self combust in a few seconds.
It wouldn't be a nuke per se because the main explosion would not be nuclear but thermal, but it would scatter burning radioactive metal debris everywhere. So it makes for a self detonating dirty bomb.
But it is also super rare in nature. There would only be a few atoms of it per whole uranium mines.
I agree with this. As soon as he summoned it, if his character could give a reason on how he even know it exist, I would have it explode.
Would like to also add that in one of my groups (was in 3 as a player and DM of 1 but 1 broke up) I play a duel wield gunslinger artificer. It matched the DMs homebrew.
1.) When he tries to use it, he turns momentarily into a potted plant. The world is magical, not scientific, and expecting it to act scientific is asking to be surprised by the results
2.) Have it be stolen by kobolds. Then, a quest must be undertaken to retrieve it before the kobolds use it
3.) Harass him with agents from every kingdom on the planet whose diviners have divined what he has.
The relevant point isn't the nature of Francium, it is what makes the best gaming experience. You don't get much of a story by having francium automatically blow up when you summon it.
by that logic high level inquisitive rouges should act as the bodyguards of kings due to their abillity to see through illusions and resist charms, but how whould they go about it, do they simply cast legend lore, testing every possble phrase that might relate to the safety of the kingdom? do they scry on every suspicious looking adventurer who passes into town? do they scry on the records of rival institutions? Are auguries and divine interventions involved? Untill the wizard does anything that might warrant the attention of these high-level agents, they should probably not need to worry about them unless they can read al the minds of all people at once
And by this same logic, should not all businesses be within anti magic fields to prevent people from casting charm person, dominate person or distort value?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
A business that can afford to be within an anti-magic field should do so. There is a factor of economics to consider.
Contact Other Plane "Who is the greatest threat to my kingdom?" could be asked daily by a cabal of diviners. It could be followed up with "who is the second greatest threat to my kingdom?" etc. depending on how much tax revenue goes to supporting the cabal.
I am DMing game with a transmutation wiz. He had the great idea to make magical bombs by using alchemy to make elements that combust on contact (I thought this was a great character idea). In his research, he found that the element francium combusts on contact with water. So he cast the spells, "create/destroy water" and "create". Creating 5 cubic feet of water and the same amount of francium. I looked up how large of an explosion this would be, and it's about the size of a nuke. Does anyone have any advice?
let him detonate it. Be like. EVERYONE roll new chars.
give the same world lore as original session. Only now include the nuclear fallout and wasteland that is where the nuke was set off.
make some fun lore like some NPC investigators are finding the cause. Have NPCs find out it was former PC. Have him be shunned throughout history for his dastardly nuke. Etc.
he’ll learn.
sometimes you have to learn to limit how creative you can be. With great creativity comes great power. With great power comes great responsibility.
* if they were semi-end game... this could be a nice way to prolong it. Give out a lot of “misinformation/information” about the former party, but painted in the light as if THEY might have been the BBEGs, and highlight all the “questionable” things they did, as well as the nuke obviously.
** maybe the radioactive fallout, creates a thriving ecosystem for liches, undead, etc as well...
reading through this entire thread....
this seems like the best solution. Just treat it as some hardly survivable explosive/force damage combo. And radiation and such for like an effect size of control weather (5mile radius), maybe the radiation also spreads like Cloudkill, as well.
theres an old saying “don’t open Pandora’s box” or “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” or “curious killed the cat” anyways you look at it. Sometimes good things with good intentions can be bad. And the reverse as well.
1. Explain the range of spells and the blast radius will significantly overlap.
2. A benevolent deity wishing to spare the world shows up and wipes your wizards memory. Maybe reward him by bestowing a boon. 3. A malicious deity wishing to spare the world to keep it for its self wipes your wizards memory. And leaves a curse that triggers if the wizard tries to recreate it.
4. A paladin receives a vision of your wizards devastating new weapon and is now sworn to stop him.
I am DMing game with a transmutation wiz. He had the great idea to make magical bombs by using alchemy to make elements that combust on contact (I thought this was a great character idea). In his research, he found that the element francium combusts on contact with water. So he cast the spells, "create/destroy water" and "create". Creating 5 cubic feet of water and the same amount of francium. I looked up how large of an explosion this would be, and it's about the size of a nuke. Does anyone have any advice?
So I looked for the “create” spell and couldn’t find it so I’m assuming it’s a homebrew although there some effects that allow creation of small amounts of things like the minor creation ability but 5 cubic feat is a lot. That would be roughly 156 pounds of francium far beyond the 10 pound max for minor creation. Further, I wonder how the character ( not the player) manages to get any sort of clue to the existence of francium ( a material with roughly 300,000 ATOMS present in an entire planet and that wasn’t identified with modern radiochemistry until 1939) with the skills, knowledge and tools of a roughly midevial alchemist- sounds like a lot of metagaming and mixing of character/player knowledge to me. As such it should simply be disallowed. If they want something somewhat like this have them research and show you written proof of how the character ( with the knowledge available in world dev3loped the explosive. (Hint: even sodium metal wasn’t discovered until the 1800s via electrolysis of NaOH so hypergolic reactions were completely unknown in all likelihood.) now does earth history force you to follow it in DnD? No, but it provides solid guidelines for what should and shouldn’t be acceptable for a character to base their knowledge off of and guidelines for what should be acceptable in game. You can and will do what you want but even assuming your willing to allow the PC to learn about francium a spell that would allow The creation of that much material might well be beyond even 9th level as it would entail gathering in one spot not just all the planet’s francium, not just all the system’s francium but the francium from thousands of systems across the prime material.
So I looked for the “create” spell and couldn’t find it so I’m assuming it’s a homebrew although there some effects that allow creation of small amounts of things like the minor creation ability but 5 cubic feat is a lot. That would be roughly 156 pounds of francium far beyond the 10 pound max for minor creation.
Further, I wonder how the character ( not the player) manages to get any sort of clue to the existence of francium ( a material with roughly 300,000 ATOMS present in an entire planet and that wasn’t identified with modern radiochemistry until 1939) with the skills, knowledge and tools of a roughly midevial alchemist- sounds like a lot of metagaming and mixing of character/player knowledge to me.
As such it should simply be disallowed. If they want something somewhat like this have them research and show you written proof of how the character ( with the knowledge available in world dev3loped the explosive. (Hint: even sodium metal wasn’t discovered until the 1800s via electrolysis of NaOH so hypergolic reactions were completely unknown in all likelihood.) now does earth history force you to follow it in DnD? No, but it provides solid guidelines for what should and shouldn’t be acceptable for a character to base their knowledge off of and guidelines for what should be acceptable in game.
You can and will do what you want but even assuming your willing to allow the PC to learn about francium a spell that would allow The creation of that much material might well be beyond even 9th level as it would entail gathering in one spot not just all the planet’s francium, not just all the system’s francium but the francium from thousands of systems across the prime material.
Not sure what math you did that had a block of solid metal as big as a car weighing less than a person, but I already did the math for weight in one of the first posts 3 years ago.
I also already pointed out the rarity of the element 3 years ago, but we don't know anything about the setting, it could be modern times. And besides forgotten realms had a period of more advanced civilization that got lost due to a disaster, so semi-modern knowledge and technology could be (and is) out there to be found.
And I think the OP decided to not be a nuke 3 years ago, and hasn't replied to anything since.
That doesn't seem to be referenced anywhere in 5e.
Gunpowder can be found in CoS (which I realize takes place in a demiplane).
It is also mentioned several times in the giff's description.
But no where in 5e is it mentioned gunpowder doesn't work in the forgotten realms (and WotC has changed other bits of lore occasionally).
please peaople, read the dungeon masters guide, it is RIGHT THERE IN THE HANDBOOK JUST READ IT THE CHAPTER ON DUNGEON MASTERS WORKSHOP YOU KNOW THE ONE WITH THE GUNS AND SPACE LAZERS AND SAITY CHECK YES THAT CHAPTER GO THERE READ THE THING IT IS NOT HARD PEOPLE
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Yeah, that is what we were discussing. I even linked it. Who is this comment for?
By the creator of Forgotten Realms Ed Greenwood:
Just because it is in the DnD books does not make it LORE in forgotten realms. The DMG for example has rules for computers, cell phones, lasers, and any type of futuristic gear you can think of. Want a Fall-out Power Armor. Well there is rules on how to add it. Want to create Borg or Sky-net there is a section on how to add Alien Technology.
DMs can add anything they want to their games and make any changes. But as soon as they do the settings becomes HOMEBREW and not the official lore based settings. There is nothing wrong with that and all the campaigns I DM are Homebrewed and I use the other official settings as my base. It is still Homebrew though.
I am not going to argue Lore about guns to gun fanboys here. Go to the lore section of the forums and you can get more details and information. The only reason I mentioned it was because the OP could have used it to help with his/her problem and based it on Lore.
And just because it is more to the forgotten realms does not make it a rule in 5e. But I will grant you that smokepowder is mentioned more times and in more books than gunpowder is.
I'm not a gun fanboy, don't make assumptions about my character. I am a rule fanboy. And I am not arguing about the overall lore of forgotten realms (because I have little doubt you are correct), just the 5e sourcebooks.
Your suggestion is precedent for the DM to have made that kind of decision and I'm sorry to have distracted from that, but of course since francium being inert is not part of the official lore (I assume) and not in 5e sourcebooks, it still would have been a house rule (which based on the paragraphs of your comment I cut, you seem to be against). Plus the wizard in question choose francium because they knew it was unstable and reactive, so they would have chosen something that works that way in the lore in that case.
Sorry if i can off a little cross. My DM group on Saturday has a DM who is really against guns in DnD and with Artificer being released it has caused some issues. One player really loves them and it broke the group apart that has been together for years.
I agree with this. As soon as he summoned it, if his character could give a reason on how he even know it exist, I would have it explode.
Would like to also add that in one of my groups (was in 3 as a player and DM of 1 but 1 broke up) I play a duel wield gunslinger artificer. It matched the DMs homebrew.
I'd do one of three things
1.) When he tries to use it, he turns momentarily into a potted plant. The world is magical, not scientific, and expecting it to act scientific is asking to be surprised by the results
2.) Have it be stolen by kobolds. Then, a quest must be undertaken to retrieve it before the kobolds use it
3.) Harass him with agents from every kingdom on the planet whose diviners have divined what he has.
The relevant point isn't the nature of Francium, it is what makes the best gaming experience. You don't get much of a story by having francium automatically blow up when you summon it.
ah, an scripted wild magic surge, love it. No idea why diviners where scrying on the party tho
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I suspect there are kingdoms who fund full-time diviners whose job it is to find threats to the kingdom.
by that logic high level inquisitive rouges should act as the bodyguards of kings due to their abillity to see through illusions and resist charms, but how whould they go about it, do they simply cast legend lore, testing every possble phrase that might relate to the safety of the kingdom? do they scry on every suspicious looking adventurer who passes into town? do they scry on the records of rival institutions? Are auguries and divine interventions involved? Untill the wizard does anything that might warrant the attention of these high-level agents, they should probably not need to worry about them unless they can read al the minds of all people at once
And by this same logic, should not all businesses be within anti magic fields to prevent people from casting charm person, dominate person or distort value?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
A business that can afford to be within an anti-magic field should do so. There is a factor of economics to consider.
Contact Other Plane "Who is the greatest threat to my kingdom?" could be asked daily by a cabal of diviners. It could be followed up with "who is the second greatest threat to my kingdom?" etc. depending on how much tax revenue goes to supporting the cabal.
reading through this entire thread....
this seems like the best solution. Just treat it as some hardly survivable explosive/force damage combo. And radiation and such for like an effect size of control weather (5mile radius), maybe the radiation also spreads like Cloudkill, as well.
theres an old saying “don’t open Pandora’s box” or “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” or “curious killed the cat” anyways you look at it. Sometimes good things with good intentions can be bad. And the reverse as well.
Whenever characters get too far put of control its time for divine intervention. Let your deities descend upon them
1. Explain the range of spells and the blast radius will significantly overlap.
2. A benevolent deity wishing to spare the world shows up and wipes your wizards memory. Maybe reward him by bestowing a boon.
3. A malicious deity wishing to spare the world to keep it for its self wipes your wizards memory. And leaves a curse that triggers if the wizard tries to recreate it.
4. A paladin receives a vision of your wizards devastating new weapon and is now sworn to stop him.
Have another wizard make his own discovery. Similar to Leomund’s Tiny Hut, “Indy’s nuke proof refrigerator”.
this spells summons the magic refrigerator used by Indiana Jones. Totally counters your wizards nuke.
So I looked for the “create” spell and couldn’t find it so I’m assuming it’s a homebrew although there some effects that allow creation of small amounts of things like the minor creation ability but 5 cubic feat is a lot. That would be roughly 156 pounds of francium far beyond the 10 pound max for minor creation. Further, I wonder how the character ( not the player) manages to get any sort of clue to the existence of francium ( a material with roughly 300,000 ATOMS present in an entire planet and that wasn’t identified with modern radiochemistry until 1939) with the skills, knowledge and tools of a roughly midevial alchemist- sounds like a lot of metagaming and mixing of character/player knowledge to me. As such it should simply be disallowed. If they want something somewhat like this have them research and show you written proof of how the character ( with the knowledge available in world dev3loped the explosive. (Hint: even sodium metal wasn’t discovered until the 1800s via electrolysis of NaOH so hypergolic reactions were completely unknown in all likelihood.) now does earth history force you to follow it in DnD? No, but it provides solid guidelines for what should and shouldn’t be acceptable for a character to base their knowledge off of and guidelines for what should be acceptable in game. You can and will do what you want but even assuming your willing to allow the PC to learn about francium a spell that would allow The creation of that much material might well be beyond even 9th level as it would entail gathering in one spot not just all the planet’s francium, not just all the system’s francium but the francium from thousands of systems across the prime material.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
creation
Not sure what math you did that had a block of solid metal as big as a car weighing less than a person, but I already did the math for weight in one of the first posts 3 years ago.
I also already pointed out the rarity of the element 3 years ago, but we don't know anything about the setting, it could be modern times. And besides forgotten realms had a period of more advanced civilization that got lost due to a disaster, so semi-modern knowledge and technology could be (and is) out there to be found.
And I think the OP decided to not be a nuke 3 years ago, and hasn't replied to anything since.
The bih question is how did you allow it to be built?
I would have gas the tools and supplies impossible to get
It wasn't "built". They just summoned a bunch of radioactive metal that really doesn't want to exist and let it do what it does.
Think of it like pure glycerine or touch powder. It just explodes on its own without being made into a device.