Round 1: -18.5 damage (one less attack) versus +7 Round 2: 0 damage (the missing attack is made up for on this turn) versus +14 Round 3: +18.5 damage versus +21 Round 4: +37 damage versus +28 Round 5: +55.5 damage versus +35
5 rounds in and haste has not only dealt 20.5 more damage than hex, but probably prevented some damage and allowed you much stronger mobility on top of that. Even just 3 rounds in, it's better all-around because the damage difference (2.5 damage) just can't match the power of +2 AC and doubled speed.
I think more combats are less than 4 rounds than are more than 4 rounds, and it is a higher level spell using a higher level slot.
Even if you do lose concentration thanks to running out of time or getting hit and dropping it, you have SO MANY USES by 7th level. Hex is okay as a backup if you somehow run out of hastes, but unless you're using your 60 foot movement speed to run directly into the enemy's melee range or ranged enemies are somehow hitting you regularly despite you being able to get +5 AC as a reaction, having an extra 2 AC from haste, and making the enemies attack at disadvantage, then you should be able to keep your concentration pretty much every time.
How are the enemy attacks at disadvantage with Haste?
Also you know fireballs, teleports, save or suck and invisibility are all a thing right?
I would agree you can maintain concentration most of the time, but that is not nearly the same as "pretty much every time" and when you do lose it with haste as a caster it is devastating because it drops your actions and your defenses.
18 dex 16 int wizard at 12th level (you know, a level people actually PLAY at?) with a +2 longbow (pretty standard for the level) and feats of either of our choices, against an enemy with 17 AC, a base 65% chance to hit with the +2 weapon boosting it to a 75% chance.
your build, including piercer and hex, and throwing in a firebolt: (1d8+6)*0.75+(2d8)*0.05+(3d10)*0.5+(3d10)*0.05 In this equation we can substitute the most impactful of those d8s for 5.5 instead of 4.5, assuming that at least one of them will be below 5. This comes out to 18.15
my build, including sharpshooter (eleven accuracy has not come into play yet, obviously) without using a firebolt: ((1d8+16)*0.5+(1d8)*0.05)*2 we obviously won’t be replacing any die, so all d8s are 4.5 for my builds. this comes out to 20.95
adding hex to your build makes: (1d6+1d8+6)*0.75+(2d8+1d6)*0.05+(1d6+3d10)*0.5+(3d10+1d6)*0.05, coming out to 22.875
adding haste to mine gives us: ((1d8+16)*0.5+(1d8)*0.05)*3, which comes out to 31.424
add advantage to your build: (1d6+1d8+6)*0.94+(2d8+1d6)*0.1+(1d6+3d10)*0.75+(3d10+1d6)*0.1, which comes out to 32.35
and now my build, which includes elven accuracy: ((1d8+16)*0.875+(1d8)*0.14)*3 which comes out to 55.7
as for how to generate advantage, it’s as simple as replacing one attack with Minor Illusion and making something that arrows can pass through but which you can’t see through. Enemies have to physically interact with the illusion or use their action to investigate it to reveal it’s nature, but since you cast it you obviously know that it’s an illusion. This effectively makes you heavily obscured while having full sight of the enemy, with the only caveat being that you can’t move. of course, with the 60 foot movement speed from haste, you won’t have to move very often, and so giving up one attack every once in a while to generate advantage is a MASSIVE boost to your potential DPS, and all it takes is using the bladesinger’s unique extra attack feature. Failing that, a number of things at this level can generate advantage on important enemies from your allies, such as Stunning Strike, a wolf totem barbarian, lots of spells from other spellcasters like Faerie Fire, Psychic Lance, and more, etc. Having random advantage on at least one enemy in your weapon’s range is not a rare occurrence by this level at all.
There’s also spells that can generate advantage for you, and so if your DM decides to nerf you by fiating the Minor Illusion out of the equation, you can still do more damage than casting Hex at this level by casting something like Greater Invisibility. Getting advantage with my build is worth so much more than your build that taking an entire turn just to get it is very much worth it. With advantage, my build has a 72% lead over yours… of course you can’t use GI and Haste at the same time, but even missing a third of that damage would put mine way ahead
I think it’s a bit misleading to assume +2 magic weapons and the minor illusion shenanigans, though you did somewhat account for minor illusion being played differently.
I also wouldn’t assume 12th level is a level people actually play at. Tier 3 play, level 11-16, seems to generally be where campaigns end or play sharply decreases for various in game and out of game reasons.
regarding your various answers for generating constant advantage, if those reliably work on the majority of your encounters then your party is highly likely to be able to deal with the threats regardless of your feats or spells cast.
bows are a bit counterintuitive for bladesinging too since they are two handed weapons and end the blade song, which seems to be part of what’s dedicated to boosting concentration saves.
the point of my post was that focusing on bladesong holds bladesingers back, because it either forces you into a very feat-hungry build that only starts to function at 8th level (hand crossbows) or into using one-handed melee weapons which do poor damage, even with the boost from Booming Blade. The restrictions on bladesong are so ridiculous and the benefits so contingent on you having a good inteligence: (see: the only stat besides CON that it’s impossible to use a weapon with) that it ends up being a massive burden on builds. Someone trying to make the most out of bladesong will probably end up needing crossbow expert, sharpshooter, and an 18 in both int and dexterity, so they’ll be starting as a mountain dwarf for the double 17s and their stats won’t hit 18 until they are level 12. not bad, by any means, but it’s a long time to wait.
I like Longbow instead because it comes online earlier. The range is much longer so you don’t need the AC boost or concentration boost nearly as much, so you can just pump Dex instead and focus on spells that increase your damage. To be honest, the crossbow build is almost certainly *stronger* in the long-run but it’s a lot less satsifying, in my experience, as both a player who has tried both builds twice and a DM who has ran for three bladesingers (one melee, two ranged)
bladesong also has limited uses, so centering your build on it and relying on the protection it grants is iffy in games with more than two or three daily encounters
18 dex 16 int wizard at 12th level (you know, a level people actually PLAY at?) with a +2 longbow (pretty standard for the level) and feats of either of our choices, against an enemy with 17 AC, a base 65% chance to hit with the +2 weapon boosting it to a 75% chance.
your build, including piercer and hex, and throwing in a firebolt: (1d8+6)*0.75+(2d8)*0.05+(3d10)*0.5+(3d10)*0.05 In this equation we can substitute the most impactful of those d8s for 5.5 instead of 4.5, assuming that at least one of them will be below 5. This comes out to 18.15
my build, including sharpshooter (eleven accuracy has not come into play yet, obviously) without using a firebolt: ((1d8+16)*0.5+(1d8)*0.05)*2 we obviously won’t be replacing any die, so all d8s are 4.5 for my builds. this comes out to 20.95
adding hex to your build makes: (1d6+1d8+6)*0.75+(2d8+1d6)*0.05+(1d6+3d10)*0.5+(3d10+1d6)*0.05, coming out to 22.875
Ok a few things. First you have some errors in there. I put the errors above in red.
1. With a 16 Intelligence at level 12 that is a +7 attack so it hits AC17 on a 10 or higher which is 55%, not 50%
2. With an 18 Dexterity at level 12 is +8 attack so it hits AC17 60% or 35% with sharpshooter. With a longbow+2 that is 70% or 45% with sharpshooter respectively.
3. You just arbitrarily gave the Archer a +2 bow? That completely changes the discussion! Moreover why did he get a +2 Bow and NOT a +2 Wand of the Warmage?
You literally give a magic item that completely changes the math, then nerf the actual to hit roll for the caster and buff the hit roll for the bow beyond what it should be? You are purposely stacking the deck and being misleading!
Here is the actual numbers:
Piercer with Longbow and Firebolt: (1d8+4)*0.60+(2d8)*0.05+(3d10)*0.55+(3d10)*0.05 = 16.0 (includes bonus for piercer)
Sharpshooter (no +2 bow): (1d8+14)*0.35+(1d8)*0.05)*2 = 14.8
Adding hex with Longbow and Peircer and Firebolt: (1d6+1d8+4)*0.60+(2d8+1d6)*0.05+(1d6+3d10)*0.55+(3d10+1d6)*0.05 = 20.4 (includes bonus for piercer)
Or if you want to give away +2 stuff give it to both:
Piercer with Longbow+2 and Firebolt+2 : (1d8+6)*0.70+(2d8)*0.05+(3d10)*0.65+(3d10)*0.05 = 19.9 (includes bonus for piercer)
Adding hex with Longbow+2 and Peircer and Firebolt+2 build makes: (1d6+1d8+6)*0.70+(2d8+1d6)*0.05+(1d6+3d10)*0.65+(3d10+1d6)*0.05 = 25.0 (includes bonus for Piercer)
Sharpshooter with +2 bow: (1d8+16)*0.45+(1d8)*0.05)*2 = 18.9
adding haste to mine gives us: ((1d8+16)*0.5+(1d8)*0.05)*3, which comes out to 31.424
No it doesn't:
With a normal Longbow and Haste: ((1d8+14)*0.35+(1d8)*0.05)*3 = 20.1
With a Longbow +2 and Haste: ((1d8+16)*0.45+(1d8)*0.05)*3 = 28.4
So if you don't have any +2 "stuff" you are doing less damage than a normal bowshot and Hex. If you have +2 "stuff" you are doing less than 4 DPR more per round on a higher level slot and giving up 16 points on the first round to do it.
Just for shits and grins, using elven accuracy and advantage and haste on a longbowman:
Longbow: ((1d8+14)*0.7254+(1d8)*0.14)*3 = 42.1, but I don't actually see that happening a lot.
as for how to generate advantage, it’s as simple as replacing one attack with Minor Illusion
This only works if you are small because the illusion is only 5x5 foot and you can't be small because you need to be an Elf to get Longbow proficiency and Elven accuracy. Silent Image would work but that is concentration and would conflict with Haste. Also keep in mind you are giving up an attack to cast minor illusion, then two more to cast Haste and the enemy can see around it by moving a small amount.
There’s also spells that can generate advantage for you, and so if your DM decides to nerf you by fiating the Minor Illusion out of the equation, you can still do more damage than casting Hex at this level by casting something like Greater Invisibility.
But then you are not getting a Haste attack because they are both concentration. Greater Invisibility works on the basic cantrip build too and that build does more damage.
bladesong also has limited uses, so centering your build on it and relying on the protection it grants is iffy in games with more than two or three daily encounters
There are a ton of different ways to build an effective bladesinger. A longbow does not seem very appealing to me. You can even build one in heavy armor by playing a Dwarf and playing the heavily armored feat, maxing strength and that allows you to use heavy weapons and cantrips together.
When I play a melee Bladesinger I typically go with the Highest score in Dexterity, second highest in Intelligence, third Highest in Wisdom and a mediocre or even low Constitution. I don't rely on bladesong exclusively, I use a combination of Bladesong, blur, Protection from Evil and Good, either magic light armor or mage armor and most importantly upcast false life.
You are a full Wizard so the sky is the limit, but your power is in your spells and if you want to tank in melee you need to select the spells that let you be arguably the best in the game at it.
False life is the real key. If you are using your highest level slots for false life you are very durable. You can only use bladesong a few times a day but when you do you are nigh unhittable and have more hps than a fighter of the same level. You typically only need it a few times a day. When you get to high levels False life can't keep up and you start to fall behind martials in hps but you pick up song of defense and more bladesong uses so you can still be an awesome tank.
One of the things I see people do is try to max constitution and then take feats like resilient con and mobile and they don't really work great on a bladesinger. Hit points and AOOs are not usually your weaknesses you have spells and abilities to deal with those. What usually kills you is failed Wisdom saves that incapacitate you and drop your defenses.
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I think more combats are less than 4 rounds than are more than 4 rounds, and it is a higher level spell using a higher level slot.
How are the enemy attacks at disadvantage with Haste?
Also you know fireballs, teleports, save or suck and invisibility are all a thing right?
I would agree you can maintain concentration most of the time, but that is not nearly the same as "pretty much every time" and when you do lose it with haste as a caster it is devastating because it drops your actions and your defenses.
I think it’s a bit misleading to assume +2 magic weapons and the minor illusion shenanigans, though you did somewhat account for minor illusion being played differently.
I also wouldn’t assume 12th level is a level people actually play at. Tier 3 play, level 11-16, seems to generally be where campaigns end or play sharply decreases for various in game and out of game reasons.
regarding your various answers for generating constant advantage, if those reliably work on the majority of your encounters then your party is highly likely to be able to deal with the threats regardless of your feats or spells cast.
bows are a bit counterintuitive for bladesinging too since they are two handed weapons and end the blade song, which seems to be part of what’s dedicated to boosting concentration saves.
the point of my post was that focusing on bladesong holds bladesingers back, because it either forces you into a very feat-hungry build that only starts to function at 8th level (hand crossbows) or into using one-handed melee weapons which do poor damage, even with the boost from Booming Blade. The restrictions on bladesong are so ridiculous and the benefits so contingent on you having a good inteligence: (see: the only stat besides CON that it’s impossible to use a weapon with) that it ends up being a massive burden on builds. Someone trying to make the most out of bladesong will probably end up needing crossbow expert, sharpshooter, and an 18 in both int and dexterity, so they’ll be starting as a mountain dwarf for the double 17s and their stats won’t hit 18 until they are level 12. not bad, by any means, but it’s a long time to wait.
I like Longbow instead because it comes online earlier. The range is much longer so you don’t need the AC boost or concentration boost nearly as much, so you can just pump Dex instead and focus on spells that increase your damage. To be honest, the crossbow build is almost certainly *stronger* in the long-run but it’s a lot less satsifying, in my experience, as both a player who has tried both builds twice and a DM who has ran for three bladesingers (one melee, two ranged)
bladesong also has limited uses, so centering your build on it and relying on the protection it grants is iffy in games with more than two or three daily encounters
Ok a few things. First you have some errors in there. I put the errors above in red.
1. With a 16 Intelligence at level 12 that is a +7 attack so it hits AC17 on a 10 or higher which is 55%, not 50%
2. With an 18 Dexterity at level 12 is +8 attack so it hits AC17 60% or 35% with sharpshooter. With a longbow+2 that is 70% or 45% with sharpshooter respectively.
3. You just arbitrarily gave the Archer a +2 bow? That completely changes the discussion! Moreover why did he get a +2 Bow and NOT a +2 Wand of the Warmage?
You literally give a magic item that completely changes the math, then nerf the actual to hit roll for the caster and buff the hit roll for the bow beyond what it should be? You are purposely stacking the deck and being misleading!
Here is the actual numbers:
Piercer with Longbow and Firebolt: (1d8+4)*0.60+(2d8)*0.05+(3d10)*0.55+(3d10)*0.05 = 16.0 (includes bonus for piercer)
Sharpshooter (no +2 bow): (1d8+14)*0.35+(1d8)*0.05)*2 = 14.8
Adding hex with Longbow and Peircer and Firebolt: (1d6+1d8+4)*0.60+(2d8+1d6)*0.05+(1d6+3d10)*0.55+(3d10+1d6)*0.05 = 20.4 (includes bonus for piercer)
Or if you want to give away +2 stuff give it to both:
Piercer with Longbow+2 and Firebolt+2 : (1d8+6)*0.70+(2d8)*0.05+(3d10)*0.65+(3d10)*0.05 = 19.9 (includes bonus for piercer)
Adding hex with Longbow+2 and Peircer and Firebolt+2 build makes: (1d6+1d8+6)*0.70+(2d8+1d6)*0.05+(1d6+3d10)*0.65+(3d10+1d6)*0.05 = 25.0 (includes bonus for Piercer)
Sharpshooter with +2 bow: (1d8+16)*0.45+(1d8)*0.05)*2 = 18.9
No it doesn't:
With a normal Longbow and Haste: ((1d8+14)*0.35+(1d8)*0.05)*3 = 20.1
With a Longbow +2 and Haste: ((1d8+16)*0.45+(1d8)*0.05)*3 = 28.4
So if you don't have any +2 "stuff" you are doing less damage than a normal bowshot and Hex. If you have +2 "stuff" you are doing less than 4 DPR more per round on a higher level slot and giving up 16 points on the first round to do it.
Just for shits and grins, using elven accuracy and advantage and haste on a longbowman:
Longbow: ((1d8+14)*0.7254+(1d8)*0.14)*3 = 42.1, but I don't actually see that happening a lot.
This only works if you are small because the illusion is only 5x5 foot and you can't be small because you need to be an Elf to get Longbow proficiency and Elven accuracy. Silent Image would work but that is concentration and would conflict with Haste. Also keep in mind you are giving up an attack to cast minor illusion, then two more to cast Haste and the enemy can see around it by moving a small amount.
But then you are not getting a Haste attack because they are both concentration. Greater Invisibility works on the basic cantrip build too and that build does more damage.
There are a ton of different ways to build an effective bladesinger. A longbow does not seem very appealing to me. You can even build one in heavy armor by playing a Dwarf and playing the heavily armored feat, maxing strength and that allows you to use heavy weapons and cantrips together.
When I play a melee Bladesinger I typically go with the Highest score in Dexterity, second highest in Intelligence, third Highest in Wisdom and a mediocre or even low Constitution. I don't rely on bladesong exclusively, I use a combination of Bladesong, blur, Protection from Evil and Good, either magic light armor or mage armor and most importantly upcast false life.
You are a full Wizard so the sky is the limit, but your power is in your spells and if you want to tank in melee you need to select the spells that let you be arguably the best in the game at it.
False life is the real key. If you are using your highest level slots for false life you are very durable. You can only use bladesong a few times a day but when you do you are nigh unhittable and have more hps than a fighter of the same level. You typically only need it a few times a day. When you get to high levels False life can't keep up and you start to fall behind martials in hps but you pick up song of defense and more bladesong uses so you can still be an awesome tank.
One of the things I see people do is try to max constitution and then take feats like resilient con and mobile and they don't really work great on a bladesinger. Hit points and AOOs are not usually your weaknesses you have spells and abilities to deal with those. What usually kills you is failed Wisdom saves that incapacitate you and drop your defenses.