I started in a campaign a couple months ago as a Lore Mastery Wizard, but I had to miss out on several sessions due to scheduling conflicts with work. Now I'm back, but the Lore Mastery Archetype is MIA.
I realize it was UA, and UA isn't perfect, but I really loved the concept of the Lore Master and would love to keep playing it. I'm sure my DM would allow it, since most of the party is using 3rd party content, but still...
Do any of you know of any good revised versions of this archetype? If it really is unbalanced enough to be removed, I don't want to play it as-is and be unfair to the rest of my party. Alternatively, do you think this archetype is fine to play if you avoid metagaming re: monster weaknesses? I really just like if for the flavour of a Wizard who writes their own code, so to speak.
The idea of a Cold Fireball or a Radiant Toll The Dead is just...fun!
That's pretty cool, but honestly I mostly liked Lore Master for the metamagic or the concept of "editing" spells. It felt like the lore wizard really understood their magic enough to get creative with it, which is a kind of intelligence the other archetypes don't touch really upon, which is such a shame. I guess that was the part that a lot of DMs objected to, though. Homebrewmancy?
I think changing Spell Secrets to "you can only change a Saving throw from one Physical save to another (STR, DEX, CON) or from one Mental save to another (INT, WIS, CHA)" would have balanced it out just fine. :/
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"The beating sound is not my sympathetic heart, but a time bomb."
Beyond the balance issues was that it stepped on the feet, not just toes, of sorcerers and paladins. It made sorcerers irrelevant and took the paladin smite and made it a happy fun time for wizards. It just didn't work. Wizards are scholars and sorcerers are artists. Them having the monopoly on meta magic feels good for the game.
yeah honestly the lore wizard was really cool, i think that instead of an "on the fly" style spell editing, the wizard should have to spend the normal amount of time and gold to research spells that have slightly diffrent saves and damage types, perhaps even chaning schools, and then at later levels you unlock the abillity to "master" a few spells letting you edit them whenever you want
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
It was painfully imbalanced and beckoned powergamers to the point I hoped it never left UA. Balancing it would defeat the theme of the ultimate mage with unequal control of the arcane arts.
With that said I freaking loved it! And not cause of the mechanics, but due to the fact it would speak to a young headstrong (and possible arrogant) wizard. It fit my character perfectly. Unfortunately never got to play her. =(
It was the only school I'd ever found interesting to be honest.
It was painfully imbalanced and beckoned powergamers to the point I hoped it never left UA. Balancing it would defeat the theme of the ultimate mage with unequal control of the arcane arts.
With that said I freaking loved it! And not cause of the mechanics, but due to the fact it would speak to a young headstrong (and possible arrogant) wizard. It fit my character perfectly. Unfortunately never got to play her. =(
It was the only school I'd ever found interesting to be honest.
yeah honestly same, made an midlife crisis elf and this whould have been perfect
oooh i just made one that mashed the lore master with the invention wizard.
i have no clue if its balanced...
- i added the random chance/like spell experimentation aspect to the lore wizard thing. basically your like doc brown from back to the future but in wizard form. so there's an element of wild magic in there. but i tried to make it semi-reliable...so the modified is based on your proficiency bonus.
i would give you critisisim but all that happens when i click the link is:
Page Not Found
We live in a world of uncertainty. But certainly, the page you were looking for isn’t here. Perhaps this halfling has stolen it and hidden it in another place. Try searching for what you were looking for in another realm.
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
ahh do you know how i'd get around that? do i have to publish it? or can i share a link without publishing?
not exactly shure what publishing is, but i think it is a pretty safe bet that you need to publish it in order for others to view it, there are probably ways arround it but you are probably better of just publishing the thing
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Just found a 3.5e Loremaster, it was a prestige class so had a few requirements but switching it to a 5e class would look like this:
Secret
At 2nd level, and every level you gain a class feature (level 6, 10, 14), the Loremaster chooses one secret from the table below. Your loremaster level plus Intelligence modifier determines the secrets from which you can choose. You can’t choose the same secret twice. You also learn 2 languages of your choice.
Level + INT Modifier
1 = Instant Mastery (Gain one skill proficiency
2 = Secret Health (Gain +d6 Hit Points + Cons bonus)
3 = Secret of Inner Strength (Advantage on Wisdom Saving Throws)
4 = Secret of True Stamina (Advantage on Constitution Saving Throws)
5= Secret of Avoidance (Advantage on Dexterity Saving Throws)
6 = Weapon Trick (+1 bonus to Spell Attack rolls)
7 = Dodge Trick (+1 bonus to AC whilst unarmoured or Using Mage Armour)
At 6th level, a loremaster gains the ability to know legends or information regarding various topics, and gains advatnage on Arcana, History, Medicine and Religion skill checks if they have proficiency in that skill.
Greater Lore
At 10th level, a loremaster gains the ability to understand magic items. You learn the Detect Magic & Identify spells and can cast each a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence bonus (min 1) without expending a spell slot however doing so requires 1 minute of uninterrupted concentration and the ability to touch and see the item.
True Lore
At 14th level, a Loremaster learns the spell Legend Lore and can cast it once per long rest without expending a spell slot.
Just found a 3.5e Loremaster, it was a prestige class so had a few requirements but switching it to a 5e class would look like this:
yeah but the thing is the 3.5e lore master was all about, well all about lore and physical knowledge and it has almost nothing to do with the unearthed arcana version of the lore master, yeah it is neat but the 5e UA lore master has much more in common with the archmage than the older lore master
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Editing damage types could be problematic. Changing highly resisted spells like fireball to damage types that are not resistant such as force or radiant could be too good.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
here is an simple solution: an lore wizard can only impose saving throws with their custom spells if they have an spell prepared that forces the target to make that kind of saving throw, so you can only force people to make int saves if you have something like phantasmal force, str saves if you have gust of wind or something else prepared etc, and similarly you can only use damage types if you have a spell prepared that can deal that damage type and only that damage type (so chromatic orb and dragons breath do not count), you are blending aspects of your different spells, not creating new ones, and perhaps have a caveat that if you change the damage types of an spell, you must subtract 1d6 from the damage dealt by the spell or remove a d6 from the die notation, so an cold fireball made my an lore wizard will deal 7d6 cold damage instead of 8d6, or even 6d6 if you are using an fireball that deals cold damage and imposes an wisdom saving throw to aviod, weras an flaming witch bolt would deal 1d12 - 1d6 damage. This damage reduction occurs once per casting
With this an lore wizard would be just a lot more motivated to seek out and learn as many spells as they can, and to have an diverse library of spells at their disposal
then also, maybe instead of copying metamagic for their later features, you get to make an spell whose effect at higher spell slots is to gain more targets to instead last longer when cast at higher levels and vice versa, so for you when you cast charm person at 3rd level instead of targeting three people it lasts for three hours
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I am also one of the people who liked the theme of Lore Master a lot, except that I started playing one and have been for 3 years. While I really love having expertise in intelligence skills, a lot of the other abilities are problematic. No enemy has ever really had resistance to my spells because I just change the damage type to what I need, and when I made an item that increased the power of cold spells (we killed a white dragon) I was just able to instantly start using it without any investment. We actually haven't revised it in that game, but (I'm 15th level now) being able to pull any spell I want out of nowhere is a lot. There are lots of spells that bards abuse with Magical Secrets and you can do that but better. That game is very different from a normal 5e game however, and instead of asking me to change my subclass or talking about the balance my DM just gave every enemy Counterspell and our most recent fight the enemy cast Antimagic Field, but I'm still going all right which states the power of this class. The fact that I can cast Globe of Invulnerability without preparing it or having it in my book or do other shenanigans like learning Circle of Power or Aura of Life or even Regenerate is ridiculous. I'd honestly recommend staying away from it and playing Sorcerer if you like Metamagic or just talking to your DM if you want this but are concerned about balance. Things get really wack as a Lore Caster and while it's kind of fun it also makes your decisions feel less meaningful because you can just prepare that spell again or cast the spell you didn't add to your book. At the lower levels it feels all right, but I've used Alchemical Casting to Move Earth the enemy's base to death from a mile away, and I kind of have a love hate relationship with my own character right now. I'm not sure this is an actually helpful post, but this has been some of my experiences with the subclass
Beyond the balance issues was that it stepped on the feet, not just toes, of sorcerers and paladins. It made sorcerers irrelevant and took the paladin smite and made it a happy fun time for wizards. It just didn't work. Wizards are scholars and sorcerers are artists. Them having the monopoly on meta magic feels good for the game.
In terms of your metaphore only.
Wiz=scholar / Sorc=Artist
I feel like that is somewhat inacurrate in the sence that,
A scholar can do something (random example) like fully crack and map the human genome.
An artist could then look at that map, and find artistic beauty or inspiration in it.
So basicly I'm saying those things arnt mutually exclusive so that metaphors doesn't work for me
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Hey everyone.
I started in a campaign a couple months ago as a Lore Mastery Wizard, but I had to miss out on several sessions due to scheduling conflicts with work. Now I'm back, but the Lore Mastery Archetype is MIA.
I realize it was UA, and UA isn't perfect, but I really loved the concept of the Lore Master and would love to keep playing it. I'm sure my DM would allow it, since most of the party is using 3rd party content, but still...
Do any of you know of any good revised versions of this archetype? If it really is unbalanced enough to be removed, I don't want to play it as-is and be unfair to the rest of my party. Alternatively, do you think this archetype is fine to play if you avoid metagaming re: monster weaknesses? I really just like if for the flavour of a Wizard who writes their own code, so to speak.
The idea of a Cold Fireball or a Radiant Toll The Dead is just...fun!
"The beating sound is not my sympathetic heart, but a time bomb."
♦Character art commissions♦
This is my take on it. It did away with the meta magic and the smiting and plays to the wizard being the ultimate scholar of magic.
Knowledge Wizard
That's pretty cool, but honestly I mostly liked Lore Master for the metamagic or the concept of "editing" spells. It felt like the lore wizard really understood their magic enough to get creative with it, which is a kind of intelligence the other archetypes don't touch really upon, which is such a shame. I guess that was the part that a lot of DMs objected to, though.
Homebrewmancy?I think changing Spell Secrets to "you can only change a Saving throw from one Physical save to another (STR, DEX, CON) or from one Mental save to another (INT, WIS, CHA)" would have balanced it out just fine. :/
"The beating sound is not my sympathetic heart, but a time bomb."
♦Character art commissions♦
Beyond the balance issues was that it stepped on the feet, not just toes, of sorcerers and paladins. It made sorcerers irrelevant and took the paladin smite and made it a happy fun time for wizards. It just didn't work. Wizards are scholars and sorcerers are artists. Them having the monopoly on meta magic feels good for the game.
yeah honestly the lore wizard was really cool, i think that instead of an "on the fly" style spell editing, the wizard should have to spend the normal amount of time and gold to research spells that have slightly diffrent saves and damage types, perhaps even chaning schools, and then at later levels you unlock the abillity to "master" a few spells letting you edit them whenever you want
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
It was painfully imbalanced and beckoned powergamers to the point I hoped it never left UA. Balancing it would defeat the theme of the ultimate mage with unequal control of the arcane arts.
With that said I freaking loved it! And not cause of the mechanics, but due to the fact it would speak to a young headstrong (and possible arrogant) wizard. It fit my character perfectly. Unfortunately never got to play her. =(
It was the only school I'd ever found interesting to be honest.
yeah honestly same, made an midlife crisis elf and this whould have been perfect
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
oooh i just made one that mashed the lore master with the invention wizard.
i have no clue if its balanced...
- i added the random chance/like spell experimentation aspect to the lore wizard thing. basically your like doc brown from back to the future but in wizard form. so there's an element of wild magic in there. but i tried to make it semi-reliable...so the modified is based on your proficiency bonus.
here is a link: https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/441634-school-of-creation
any critiques are welcome. i can explain further the thinking behind it.
i would give you critisisim but all that happens when i click the link is:
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
ahh do you know how i'd get around that? do i have to publish it? or can i share a link without publishing?
not exactly shure what publishing is, but i think it is a pretty safe bet that you need to publish it in order for others to view it, there are probably ways arround it but you are probably better of just publishing the thing
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Just found a 3.5e Loremaster, it was a prestige class so had a few requirements but switching it to a 5e class would look like this:
Secret
At 2nd level, and every level you gain a class feature (level 6, 10, 14), the Loremaster chooses one secret from the table below. Your loremaster level plus Intelligence modifier determines the secrets from which you can choose. You can’t choose the same secret twice. You also learn 2 languages of your choice.
Level + INT Modifier
1 = Instant Mastery (Gain one skill proficiency
2 = Secret Health (Gain +d6 Hit Points + Cons bonus)
3 = Secret of Inner Strength (Advantage on Wisdom Saving Throws)
4 = Secret of True Stamina (Advantage on Constitution Saving Throws)
5= Secret of Avoidance (Advantage on Dexterity Saving Throws)
6 = Weapon Trick (+1 bonus to Spell Attack rolls)
7 = Dodge Trick (+1 bonus to AC whilst unarmoured or Using Mage Armour)
8 = Applicable Knowledge (Gain 1 feat)
9 = Newfound Arcana (gain 1 bonus level 1 spell slot)
10 = More Newfound Arcana (gain 1 bonus level 2 spell slot, requires Newfound arcana first)
Lore
At 6th level, a loremaster gains the ability to know legends or information regarding various topics, and gains advatnage on Arcana, History, Medicine and Religion skill checks if they have proficiency in that skill.
Greater Lore
At 10th level, a loremaster gains the ability to understand magic items. You learn the Detect Magic & Identify spells and can cast each a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence bonus (min 1) without expending a spell slot however doing so requires 1 minute of uninterrupted concentration and the ability to touch and see the item.
True Lore
At 14th level, a Loremaster learns the spell Legend Lore and can cast it once per long rest without expending a spell slot.
yeah but the thing is the 3.5e lore master was all about, well all about lore and physical knowledge and it has almost nothing to do with the unearthed arcana version of the lore master, yeah it is neat but the 5e UA lore master has much more in common with the archmage than the older lore master
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Editing damage types could be problematic. Changing highly resisted spells like fireball to damage types that are not resistant such as force or radiant could be too good.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
invention+lore wizard
ok here's a screenshot for critique i don't want to make it public just yet because i wont be able to edit it really
here is an simple solution: an lore wizard can only impose saving throws with their custom spells if they have an spell prepared that forces the target to make that kind of saving throw, so you can only force people to make int saves if you have something like phantasmal force, str saves if you have gust of wind or something else prepared etc, and similarly you can only use damage types if you have a spell prepared that can deal that damage type and only that damage type (so chromatic orb and dragons breath do not count), you are blending aspects of your different spells, not creating new ones, and perhaps have a caveat that if you change the damage types of an spell, you must subtract 1d6 from the damage dealt by the spell or remove a d6 from the die notation, so an cold fireball made my an lore wizard will deal 7d6 cold damage instead of 8d6, or even 6d6 if you are using an fireball that deals cold damage and imposes an wisdom saving throw to aviod, weras an flaming witch bolt would deal 1d12 - 1d6 damage. This damage reduction occurs once per casting
With this an lore wizard would be just a lot more motivated to seek out and learn as many spells as they can, and to have an diverse library of spells at their disposal
then also, maybe instead of copying metamagic for their later features, you get to make an spell whose effect at higher spell slots is to gain more targets to instead last longer when cast at higher levels and vice versa, so for you when you cast charm person at 3rd level instead of targeting three people it lasts for three hours
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I am also one of the people who liked the theme of Lore Master a lot, except that I started playing one and have been for 3 years. While I really love having expertise in intelligence skills, a lot of the other abilities are problematic. No enemy has ever really had resistance to my spells because I just change the damage type to what I need, and when I made an item that increased the power of cold spells (we killed a white dragon) I was just able to instantly start using it without any investment. We actually haven't revised it in that game, but (I'm 15th level now) being able to pull any spell I want out of nowhere is a lot. There are lots of spells that bards abuse with Magical Secrets and you can do that but better. That game is very different from a normal 5e game however, and instead of asking me to change my subclass or talking about the balance my DM just gave every enemy Counterspell and our most recent fight the enemy cast Antimagic Field, but I'm still going all right which states the power of this class. The fact that I can cast Globe of Invulnerability without preparing it or having it in my book or do other shenanigans like learning Circle of Power or Aura of Life or even Regenerate is ridiculous. I'd honestly recommend staying away from it and playing Sorcerer if you like Metamagic or just talking to your DM if you want this but are concerned about balance. Things get really wack as a Lore Caster and while it's kind of fun it also makes your decisions feel less meaningful because you can just prepare that spell again or cast the spell you didn't add to your book. At the lower levels it feels all right, but I've used Alchemical Casting to Move Earth the enemy's base to death from a mile away, and I kind of have a love hate relationship with my own character right now. I'm not sure this is an actually helpful post, but this has been some of my experiences with the subclass
these are some good insights.
In terms of your metaphore only.
Wiz=scholar / Sorc=Artist
I feel like that is somewhat inacurrate in the sence that,
A scholar can do something (random example) like fully crack and map the human genome.
An artist could then look at that map, and find artistic beauty or inspiration in it.
So basicly I'm saying those things arnt mutually exclusive so that metaphors doesn't work for me