Hello there! How important do you think it is to get int maxed out for your wizard? Several times people playing wizard in our group got headband of inteligence. Play tend to go to level 10-16 something, so there is 2-3 times you get ability increase or feat. Would you settle for int 19 from the headband and get 2-3 good feats or still go for inteligence 20 and no/almost no feats?
Well if the question is whether it's better to have 20 Int and 0 feats or 19 Int and feats then obviously the latter is better. 19 vs. 20 isn't that big of a difference and having that taken care of you can even get ASI to other stats, like Constitution.
If the question is whether I would gamble the character's progression and ignore Int by expecting the headband to drop then hell no. Unless DM specifically allows for those kind of magic items to be bought or comissioned in game, I would never risk it for 2 reasons:
1. it's a risk of gimping your character unnecessarily
2. it's kind of a dick move against your DM, de facto forcing him to give you the headband in order to validate your character build (otherwise he will be the bad DM who screwed the player).
Never put pressure on your DM to give you an item that will enable your character build. Not without asking first.
The only way I’d do a wizard who doesn’t have a semi-good intelligence is if I was almost only casting spells that don’t have attack rolls or saving throws. That can be done and you can build a very good support wizard without any spells that require attack rolls or saving throws but it takes a lot of creativity and it’s not really my style. I like a mixture of spells and options instead of only being able to cast support spells.
There's also the opportunity cost of having a Headband of Intellect. Its an Attuned item. If you don't get the Headband.... what would you get in its place?
Hello people. Several times now the wizard of the party has found the headband of inteligence early on. My wizard got it at level 3 I think. Planning around that you would get an item before you got it is not something anyone in that playgroup would do, it is a recipy for disaster as it is unlikely that you find a specific item, I was thinking of a wizard that find the headband early on.
With the new Custom Lineage race builder from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, it is possible to start with INT 18, which means you would only need 1 ASI to max out Int, or you could choose two feats that each grant +1 Int, such as Skill Expert, Shadow/Fey Touched, or Resilient, etc...
The difference between INT 19 and INT 20 is (+1), which represents a 25% ability score improvement. This isn't insignificant, especially as monsters become stronger at higher levels. Part of the value of ASIs is keeping up with your opponents, not just getting a little stronger.
That said, how important your ability score is will depend a lot on the school of magic you choose and the type of role you wish to fill:
Enchantment needs to maximize Save DCs as quickly as possible.
Conjuration can be a lot more relaxed because spells like Summon Fey is entirely based on Spell Level and Proficiency bonus, so the caster's Int mod becomes irrelevant.
Support spells such as Haste don't need to worry about Save DCs and attacks, so once again Int Mod becomes irrelevant.
If you've created a Wizard that is intended to be a decent wizard, then it is probably starting with at least INT 16, which means that the Headband of Intellect is really only giving you a +1 modifier and consumes an attunement slot. If you commit to the Headband of Intellect and a better magic item comes along, you'll be trapped choosing between reducing your intelligence or attuning to something that might be more important for the specific encounter.
If you've created a Wizard with Int 14, then attuning to the Headband of Intellect is worth 2 feats instead of 1, which starts to get tempting.
If you create a Wizard with INT 12 or lower, then you'll probably be opening yourself up to major problems later on. With such a big vulnerability, the DM has every reason to put you in situations where you may lose your Headband and find yourself substantially weakened. As the minimum requirement for multiclassing into any class is a 13 in the primary ability score, you might be prevented from creating a wizard with a low intelligence.
There are a few nice feats out there, but if your team works well together, you'll probably be better off specializing in whatever it is that makes your character valuable. Even if the +1 from ASI doesn't seem like much, it is likely to be worth more than overlapping with one of your party members.
With the new Custom Lineage race builder from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, it is possible to start with INT 18, which means you would only need 1 ASI to max out Int, or you could choose two feats that each grant +1 Int, such as Skill Expert, Shadow/Fey Touched, or Resilient, etc...
The difference between INT 19 and INT 20 is (+1), which represents a 25% ability score improvement. This isn't insignificant, especially as monsters become stronger at higher levels. Part of the value of ASIs is keeping up with your opponents, not just getting a little stronger.
Generally agree with your conclusions but ability score improvement is misleading and inflating the importance of increase. That 25% looks big and intimidating but I would rather use the % increase of Spell Save DC to calculate whether it's is significant or not in this particular case.
Generally agree with your conclusions but ability score improvement is misleading and inflating the importance of increase. That 25% looks big and intimidating but I would rather use the % increase of Spell Save DC to calculate whether it's is significant or not in this particular case.
Sure, I was providing a narrow focus to contrast the already shared opinion that the change may be insignificant.
Against a creature that doesn't have advantage, a +1 modifier equates to a minimum 5% efficacy improvement.
If the player is not attempting the abuse the item, then they'll start with an INT 16, which means that the Headband of Intellect only grants a +5% improvement, and discourages maximizing the stat, which is a loss of 10% default efficacy compared to maximizing INT. If the wizard later replaces the Headband with a better item, they will have a 10% worse chance of succeeding with spells like Dominate Monster, which will have compounding issues as they may make a saving throw multiple times over the duration.
Another important consideration is the following:
You prepare the list of Wizard Spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of Wizard Spells from your Spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your Wizard level (minimum of one spell).
At first level, the difference between INT +2 and INT +3 is 30% of your daily prepared spells.
At 10th level, the difference between INT +4 and INT +5 is 7% of your daily prepared spells.
And, of course, a Wizard is going to have several Intelligence-based skills.
Maximizing INT has major advantages in the early game, and fewer as the campaign progresses, but that's true for most things. The question ultimately is, what is the party composition and which feats would be taken?
War Caster or Spell Sniper are good, probably wouldn't take both at the same time. Eldritch Adept is situational. Magic Initiate is probably a poor choice.
So, personally, there usually aren't 2-3 feats that I want more than maximizing the core spellcasting stat. I'm much more likely to get something like Shadow-touched, which ultimately accomplishes both. If in doubt, take a half-feat.
There is common misconception among the community that Wizards priority should be INT 20 since it improves your spell attack/DC and your daily preps, which is super good.
However, after having some consistent playing with several flavors of Wizards, I often think that INT 16 is fine and I usually go for feats at levels 4 and 8. There are so many good feats like Alert, Res CON, War Caster, Moderately Armored (if you are a Hobgoblin) and the new ones Fey/Shadow Touched that I have the feeling of taking +2 INT is not always the best choice — and I’m not even considering magic items.
My DM usually employs a boosted point-buy which allows us to start the game with 18 in one stat, so I’m always going for feats whenever I had the chance!
There's also the opportunity cost of having a Headband of Intellect. Its an Attuned item. If you don't get the Headband.... what would you get in its place?
If you want a Short list that can apply in most situations. Amulet of Health. Very powerful on Wizards turning that con to 19 from a relatively low score.
If you want longer lists. It depends on what your building for but there are a lot of items that can apply for the position based upon individual builds. But things like Wand of the War mage or the various spell books that came out in Tasha's are good general choices overall for general examples.
As For int like others mentioned. it depends on the kind of wizard that your playing whether maxing out your intelligence is the best move beyond it being smart basic advice for more beginner players. Something like the headband if you get it fairly early on could be used to cover the gap until you can take the ASI and then passed on to another party member to help them out. or if your lucky you can kind of skip it to begin with.
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Hello there!
How important do you think it is to get int maxed out for your wizard? Several times people playing wizard in our group got headband of inteligence. Play tend to go to level 10-16 something, so there is 2-3 times you get ability increase or feat. Would you settle for int 19 from the headband and get 2-3 good feats or still go for inteligence 20 and no/almost no feats?
Well if the question is whether it's better to have 20 Int and 0 feats or 19 Int and feats then obviously the latter is better. 19 vs. 20 isn't that big of a difference and having that taken care of you can even get ASI to other stats, like Constitution.
If the question is whether I would gamble the character's progression and ignore Int by expecting the headband to drop then hell no. Unless DM specifically allows for those kind of magic items to be bought or comissioned in game, I would never risk it for 2 reasons:
1. it's a risk of gimping your character unnecessarily
2. it's kind of a dick move against your DM, de facto forcing him to give you the headband in order to validate your character build (otherwise he will be the bad DM who screwed the player).
Never put pressure on your DM to give you an item that will enable your character build. Not without asking first.
The only way I’d do a wizard who doesn’t have a semi-good intelligence is if I was almost only casting spells that don’t have attack rolls or saving throws. That can be done and you can build a very good support wizard without any spells that require attack rolls or saving throws but it takes a lot of creativity and it’s not really my style. I like a mixture of spells and options instead of only being able to cast support spells.
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There's also the opportunity cost of having a Headband of Intellect. Its an Attuned item. If you don't get the Headband.... what would you get in its place?
Hello people. Several times now the wizard of the party has found the headband of inteligence early on. My wizard got it at level 3 I think. Planning around that you would get an item before you got it is not something anyone in that playgroup would do, it is a recipy for disaster as it is unlikely that you find a specific item, I was thinking of a wizard that find the headband early on.
With the new Custom Lineage race builder from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, it is possible to start with INT 18, which means you would only need 1 ASI to max out Int, or you could choose two feats that each grant +1 Int, such as Skill Expert, Shadow/Fey Touched, or Resilient, etc...
The difference between INT 19 and INT 20 is (+1), which represents a 25% ability score improvement. This isn't insignificant, especially as monsters become stronger at higher levels. Part of the value of ASIs is keeping up with your opponents, not just getting a little stronger.
That said, how important your ability score is will depend a lot on the school of magic you choose and the type of role you wish to fill:
Enchantment needs to maximize Save DCs as quickly as possible.
Conjuration can be a lot more relaxed because spells like Summon Fey is entirely based on Spell Level and Proficiency bonus, so the caster's Int mod becomes irrelevant.
Support spells such as Haste don't need to worry about Save DCs and attacks, so once again Int Mod becomes irrelevant.
If you've created a Wizard that is intended to be a decent wizard, then it is probably starting with at least INT 16, which means that the Headband of Intellect is really only giving you a +1 modifier and consumes an attunement slot. If you commit to the Headband of Intellect and a better magic item comes along, you'll be trapped choosing between reducing your intelligence or attuning to something that might be more important for the specific encounter.
If you've created a Wizard with Int 14, then attuning to the Headband of Intellect is worth 2 feats instead of 1, which starts to get tempting.
If you create a Wizard with INT 12 or lower, then you'll probably be opening yourself up to major problems later on. With such a big vulnerability, the DM has every reason to put you in situations where you may lose your Headband and find yourself substantially weakened. As the minimum requirement for multiclassing into any class is a 13 in the primary ability score, you might be prevented from creating a wizard with a low intelligence.
There are a few nice feats out there, but if your team works well together, you'll probably be better off specializing in whatever it is that makes your character valuable. Even if the +1 from ASI doesn't seem like much, it is likely to be worth more than overlapping with one of your party members.
Generally agree with your conclusions but ability score improvement is misleading and inflating the importance of increase. That 25% looks big and intimidating but I would rather use the % increase of Spell Save DC to calculate whether it's is significant or not in this particular case.
Sure, I was providing a narrow focus to contrast the already shared opinion that the change may be insignificant.
Against a creature that doesn't have advantage, a +1 modifier equates to a minimum 5% efficacy improvement.
If the player is not attempting the abuse the item, then they'll start with an INT 16, which means that the Headband of Intellect only grants a +5% improvement, and discourages maximizing the stat, which is a loss of 10% default efficacy compared to maximizing INT. If the wizard later replaces the Headband with a better item, they will have a 10% worse chance of succeeding with spells like Dominate Monster, which will have compounding issues as they may make a saving throw multiple times over the duration.
Another important consideration is the following:
At first level, the difference between INT +2 and INT +3 is 30% of your daily prepared spells.
At 10th level, the difference between INT +4 and INT +5 is 7% of your daily prepared spells.
And, of course, a Wizard is going to have several Intelligence-based skills.
Maximizing INT has major advantages in the early game, and fewer as the campaign progresses, but that's true for most things. The question ultimately is, what is the party composition and which feats would be taken?
War Caster or Spell Sniper are good, probably wouldn't take both at the same time.
Eldritch Adept is situational.
Magic Initiate is probably a poor choice.
So, personally, there usually aren't 2-3 feats that I want more than maximizing the core spellcasting stat. I'm much more likely to get something like Shadow-touched, which ultimately accomplishes both. If in doubt, take a half-feat.
There is common misconception among the community that Wizards priority should be INT 20 since it improves your spell attack/DC and your daily preps, which is super good.
However, after having some consistent playing with several flavors of Wizards, I often think that INT 16 is fine and I usually go for feats at levels 4 and 8. There are so many good feats like Alert, Res CON, War Caster, Moderately Armored (if you are a Hobgoblin) and the new ones Fey/Shadow Touched that I have the feeling of taking +2 INT is not always the best choice — and I’m not even considering magic items.
My DM usually employs a boosted point-buy which allows us to start the game with 18 in one stat, so I’m always going for feats whenever I had the chance!
If you want a Short list that can apply in most situations. Amulet of Health. Very powerful on Wizards turning that con to 19 from a relatively low score.
If you want longer lists. It depends on what your building for but there are a lot of items that can apply for the position based upon individual builds. But things like Wand of the War mage or the various spell books that came out in Tasha's are good general choices overall for general examples.
As For int like others mentioned. it depends on the kind of wizard that your playing whether maxing out your intelligence is the best move beyond it being smart basic advice for more beginner players. Something like the headband if you get it fairly early on could be used to cover the gap until you can take the ASI and then passed on to another party member to help them out. or if your lucky you can kind of skip it to begin with.