Honestly it just isn't smart to not have this included. As of right now the only reason to sub to master or hero is for the homebrew stuff...which you can easily copy and paste in your own homebrew thing so a sub isn't needed. So many people would sub if this was added to the master and hero tiers. I'm not talking it's unlocked forever if you only sub for one month. I mean that it's unlocked only while you're subbed. They would make SO much money with this.
The subscriptions do much more than allowing access to the homebrew community. The Hero Tier unlocks unlimited character slots. The Master Tier, with the benefit of the Hero Tier, allows also the sharing of all the purchased content within a campaign slot.
They can't give you all the books for free. Wizards of the Coast doesn't allow this kind of functionality from it's digital distributors. In order to allow this, they would need to pay WotC a few hundred dollars on your behalf, then you pay them back over time with a $6 a month subscription? Seems like a massive loss for DDB.
They can't give you all the books for free. Wizards of the Coast doesn't allow this kind of functionality from it's digital distributors. In order to allow this, they would need to pay WotC a few hundred dollars on your behalf, then you pay them back over time with a $6 a month subscription? Seems like a massive loss for DDB.
For free? Did...did you not read where I said to add it to a sub. I mean so far neither of them are worth it. Unlimited characters? Make different FREE accounts. Super easy. Sharing with the master one. I mean you can always just...show your DM your character soooo. They're both pretty useless. The only thing that's useful is homebrew stuff. Which you can copy and paste which is what I did for multiple things. Or just copy and paste from the pdf of the books you have to make homebrewed normal spells which I've heard multiple people doing.
With how many people aren't buying the books on their website which, why would you if you already have the physical or pdf books, and how many people are just doing the homebrew work around they're losing a lot of income potential. I mean I know every person in my group and my DM would be subbed if that was the case. Let's do some quick maffs it's 370 for all the books and then 6 a month for the master tier so the DM can share. There are 8 people in my group not including the DM. No one in my group would do the sharing thing because pranks would be had. So that would take 15 month's to make up the same cost. That's money coming in each month that wouldn't be coming in normally. It usually takes a little under a decade to come out with a new edition. At least it did between fourth edition and 5th. Not even adding on those multiple other years of being subscribed after the initial year that makes up the cost. You also get more people spending money who normally SUPER wouldn't and people that just use ill-gotten pdfs.
Also for the them paying WotC a few hundred bucks...that's not how it works. Wizards would get a percentage of the sub profit that comes in. It's a contract that would take around 15 minutes for halfway competent lawyer to write up.
With how many people aren't buying the books on their website.
I'm going to guess that you don't have access to data on the numbers of D&D Beyond customers and what they buy - the staff at D&D Beyond do. They use that information to determine how the costing model works. Without going into details, I can tell you that D&D Beyond is very successful.
There are a lot of threads on these forums about comparing costs, which I suggest taking a look at.
Could you let me know why you believe that your entire group would all be willing to pay a monthly subscription, but you don't believe that it's worth purchasing content.
Note that, in most cases, purchasing the content you need for a campaign is cheaper than a single month of master subscription.
They can't give you all the books for free. Wizards of the Coast doesn't allow this kind of functionality from it's digital distributors. In order to allow this, they would need to pay WotC a few hundred dollars on your behalf, then you pay them back over time with a $6 a month subscription? Seems like a massive loss for DDB.
Also for the them paying WotC a few hundred bucks...that's not how it works. Wizards would get a percentage of the sub profit that comes in. It's a contract that would take around 15 minutes for halfway competent lawyer to write up.
All digital distributors already have a contract. Negotiating a new contract with DDB would require them to renogtiate with everyone else like Roll20 and DMs Guild because those other sites would be getting screwed. Even if DDB gave 100% of the subscription to WotC, it wouldn't be worth it for WotC so why would they do that? DDB doesn't set the rules, the publisher (WotC) does. And a percentage of a sub is garbage for them when they can make 20$ off of a digital book sale.
And just because your group doesn't buy the books, does NOT mean that no one does. My group have physical copies, bootleg pdfs AND we have paid for all the books on DDB. So please, don't speak for us. We GLADLY pay for the books in DDB to support them and WotC because we want both companies to prosper. In fact, we all would pay even more if there was a way to do so. We know that the more money they have, the more features, adventures, and awesome products they can deliver.
They can't give you all the books for free. Wizards of the Coast doesn't allow this kind of functionality from it's digital distributors. In order to allow this, they would need to pay WotC a few hundred dollars on your behalf, then you pay them back over time with a $6 a month subscription? Seems like a massive loss for DDB.
Also for the them paying WotC a few hundred bucks...that's not how it works. Wizards would get a percentage of the sub profit that comes in. It's a contract that would take around 15 minutes for halfway competent lawyer to write up.
All digital distributors already have a contract. Negotiating a new contract with DDB would require them to renogtiate with everyone else like Roll20 and DMs Guild because those other sites would be getting screwed. Even if DDB gave 100% of the subscription to WotC, it wouldn't be worth it for WotC so why would they do that? DDB doesn't set the rules, the publisher (WotC) does. And a percentage of a sub is garbage for them when they can make 20$ off of a digital book sale.
And just because your group doesn't buy the books, does NOT mean that no one does. My group have physical copies, bootleg pdfs AND we have paid for all the books on DDB. So please, don't speak for us. We GLADLY pay for the books in DDB to support them and WotC because we want both companies to prosper. In fact, we all would pay even more if there was a way to do so. We know that the more money they have, the more features, adventures, and awesome products they can deliver.
Please explain how it wouldn't be worth it for Wizards. I mean it money coming in that wouldn't normally come in...ever. I mean even if that have to up the sub another couple of bucks it would at least still be worth it fo a sub. As of now they're pointless. It's stuff that can be done with just a couple extra mouse clicks. No one in my city buys the books, they illegally download them. We have no book stores near us that supply them. 29.99 a book is too rich for a lot of people's blood. I mean there is only around 50k people in my city but still. Not a single player that I've played with, multiple different groups, actually owns the books.
Also, who said I was speaking for you? Nowhere in my post did it say not a single player in ALL of the world has bought the books. What I did say was "With how many people aren't buying the books on their website which, why would you if you already have the physical or pdf books, and how many people are just doing the homebrew work around they're losing a lot of income potential."
Maybe you somehow, I don't know how, thought when I said the comment about who would buy the physical books and the ones on DnD Beyond I was talking about you specifically. It's because it's a waste of money and I find it idiotic to buy two of the same book. Especially at 30 bucks a pop. And if you and everyone you play with bought them more than twice that's just, whew, so so stupid and super fiscally irresponsible.
With how many people aren't buying the books on their website.
I'm going to guess that you don't have access to data on the numbers of D&D Beyond customers and what they buy - the staff at D&D Beyond do. They use that information to determine how the costing model works. Without going into details, I can tell you that D&D Beyond is very successful.
There are a lot of threads on these forums about comparing costs, which I suggest taking a look at.
Could you let me know why you believe that your entire group would all be willing to pay a monthly subscription, but you don't believe that it's worth purchasing content.
Note that, in most cases, purchasing the content you need for a campaign is cheaper than a single month of master subscription.
I've flat out asked them if they would if the books were included and they said yeah. As of right now it's useless. Especially when you can just copy and paste homebrew stuff into your own homebrew library. I mean, that's...thats it. We've had 20 minute long discussions on how it would just be a lot better.
Would the actual sales department of DND Beyond be willing to part with that information on how successful it is? I mean I know a mod wouldn't be able to see that because well, forum mods just don't have access to that info of inside sales and if they could that would be a really bad was of running a business. Insider trading out the ass. Butt if the company released the numbers of how many people buy the books I would be more than interested in seeing them.
Also for the cheaper than master tier. No it isn't. Not with the way the book stuff is chopped up. I mean you can't even see what feats are options until you buy the feats part of the book, since different feats are added in different books, you know the feat is in. Then there is equipment and races and all the other stuff just to make your character, chopped into tiny slivers of meat. It actually reminds me of when I worked in my families butcher shop.
They can't give you all the books for free. Wizards of the Coast doesn't allow this kind of functionality from it's digital distributors. In order to allow this, they would need to pay WotC a few hundred dollars on your behalf, then you pay them back over time with a $6 a month subscription? Seems like a massive loss for DDB.
Also for the them paying WotC a few hundred bucks...that's not how it works. Wizards would get a percentage of the sub profit that comes in. It's a contract that would take around 15 minutes for halfway competent lawyer to write up.
All digital distributors already have a contract. Negotiating a new contract with DDB would require them to renogtiate with everyone else like Roll20 and DMs Guild because those other sites would be getting screwed. Even if DDB gave 100% of the subscription to WotC, it wouldn't be worth it for WotC so why would they do that? DDB doesn't set the rules, the publisher (WotC) does. And a percentage of a sub is garbage for them when they can make 20$ off of a digital book sale.
And just because your group doesn't buy the books, does NOT mean that no one does. My group have physical copies, bootleg pdfs AND we have paid for all the books on DDB. So please, don't speak for us. We GLADLY pay for the books in DDB to support them and WotC because we want both companies to prosper. In fact, we all would pay even more if there was a way to do so. We know that the more money they have, the more features, adventures, and awesome products they can deliver.
Please explain how it wouldn't be worth it for Wizards. I mean it money coming in that wouldn't normally come in...ever. I mean even if that have to up the sub another couple of bucks it would at least still be worth it fo a sub. As of now their pointless. It's stuff that can we done with just a couple extra mouse clicks. No one in my city buys the books they illegally download them. We have no boom stores near us that supply them. 29.99 a book is too rich for a lot of people's blood. I mean there is only around 50k people in my city but still. Not a single player that I've played with, multiple different groups, actually owns the books.
Also, who said I was speaking for you? Nowhere in my post did it say no a single player in ALL of the world has bought the books. What I did say was "With how many people aren't buying the books on their website which, why would you if you already have the physical or pdf books, and how many people are just doing the homebrew work around they're losing a lot of income potential."
Maybe you somehow, I don't know how, thought when I said the comment about who would buy the physical books and the ones on DnD Beyond I was talking about you specifically. It's because it's a waste of money and I find it idiotic to buy two of the same book. Especially at 30 bucks a pop.
With how many people aren't buying the books on their website.
I'm going to guess that you don't have access to data on the numbers of D&D Beyond customers and what they buy - the staff at D&D Beyond do. They use that information to determine how the costing model works. Without going into details, I can tell you that D&D Beyond is very successful.
There are a lot of threads on these forums about comparing costs, which I suggest taking a look at.
Could you let me know why you believe that your entire group would all be willing to pay a monthly subscription, but you don't believe that it's worth purchasing content.
Note that, in most cases, purchasing the content you need for a campaign is cheaper than a single month of master subscription.
I've flat out asked them if they would if the books were included and they said yeah. As of right now it's useless. Especially when you can just copy and paste homebrew stuff into your own homebrew library. I mean, that's...thats it.
Would the actual sales department of DND Beyond be willing to part with that information on how duccessful it is? I mean I know a mod wouldn't be able to see that because well forum mods just don't have access to that info and if they could that would be a weird way of running a business, but if the company released the numbers of how many people buy the books I would be more than interested in seeing them.
Also for the cheaper than master tier. No it isn't. Not with the way the book stuff is chopped up. I mean you can't even see what feats are options until you but the feats part of the book. Then there is equipment and races and all the other stuff just to make your character chopped into tiny slivers of meat. It actually reminds me of when I worked in my families butcher shop.
I don't know who you heard from that the books are being added to the subscriptions. They've been pretty clear to say that it's not something in their current plans.
I also don't get how the pricing structure you're asking for is beneficial to you at all. If they raised the subscription "a few bucks" to, let's say, $8/month x your party of 8 players = $64/month for your party. For that price you can buy 2 books/month and still have just about enough for a master tier subscription for one person (which is all that's needed to share the purchased content). You'd end up paying more than the cost of buying the books outright after the first 6 months.
They can't give you all the books for free. Wizards of the Coast doesn't allow this kind of functionality from it's digital distributors. In order to allow this, they would need to pay WotC a few hundred dollars on your behalf, then you pay them back over time with a $6 a month subscription? Seems like a massive loss for DDB.
Also for the them paying WotC a few hundred bucks...that's not how it works. Wizards would get a percentage of the sub profit that comes in. It's a contract that would take around 15 minutes for halfway competent lawyer to write up.
All digital distributors already have a contract. Negotiating a new contract with DDB would require them to renogtiate with everyone else like Roll20 and DMs Guild because those other sites would be getting screwed. Even if DDB gave 100% of the subscription to WotC, it wouldn't be worth it for WotC so why would they do that? DDB doesn't set the rules, the publisher (WotC) does. And a percentage of a sub is garbage for them when they can make 20$ off of a digital book sale.
And just because your group doesn't buy the books, does NOT mean that no one does. My group have physical copies, bootleg pdfs AND we have paid for all the books on DDB. So please, don't speak for us. We GLADLY pay for the books in DDB to support them and WotC because we want both companies to prosper. In fact, we all would pay even more if there was a way to do so. We know that the more money they have, the more features, adventures, and awesome products they can deliver.
Please explain how it wouldn't be worth it for Wizards. I mean it money coming in that wouldn't normally come in...ever. I mean even if that have to up the sub another couple of bucks it would at least still be worth it fo a sub. As of now their pointless. It's stuff that can we done with just a couple extra mouse clicks. No one in my city buys the books they illegally download them. We have no boom stores near us that supply them. 29.99 a book is too rich for a lot of people's blood. I mean there is only around 50k people in my city but still. Not a single player that I've played with, multiple different groups, actually owns the books.
Also, who said I was speaking for you? Nowhere in my post did it say no a single player in ALL of the world has bought the books. What I did say was "With how many people aren't buying the books on their website which, why would you if you already have the physical or pdf books, and how many people are just doing the homebrew work around they're losing a lot of income potential."
Maybe you somehow, I don't know how, thought when I said the comment about who would buy the physical books and the ones on DnD Beyond I was talking about you specifically. It's because it's a waste of money and I find it idiotic to buy two of the same book. Especially at 30 bucks a pop.
With how many people aren't buying the books on their website.
I'm going to guess that you don't have access to data on the numbers of D&D Beyond customers and what they buy - the staff at D&D Beyond do. They use that information to determine how the costing model works. Without going into details, I can tell you that D&D Beyond is very successful.
There are a lot of threads on these forums about comparing costs, which I suggest taking a look at.
Could you let me know why you believe that your entire group would all be willing to pay a monthly subscription, but you don't believe that it's worth purchasing content.
Note that, in most cases, purchasing the content you need for a campaign is cheaper than a single month of master subscription.
I've flat out asked them if they would if the books were included and they said yeah. As of right now it's useless. Especially when you can just copy and paste homebrew stuff into your own homebrew library. I mean, that's...thats it.
Would the actual sales department of DND Beyond be willing to part with that information on how duccessful it is? I mean I know a mod wouldn't be able to see that because well forum mods just don't have access to that info and if they could that would be a weird way of running a business, but if the company released the numbers of how many people buy the books I would be more than interested in seeing them.
Also for the cheaper than master tier. No it isn't. Not with the way the book stuff is chopped up. I mean you can't even see what feats are options until you but the feats part of the book. Then there is equipment and races and all the other stuff just to make your character chopped into tiny slivers of meat. It actually reminds me of when I worked in my families butcher shop.
I don't know who you heard from that the books are being added to the subscriptions. They've been pretty clear to say that it's not something in their current plans.
I also don't get how the pricing structure you're asking for is beneficial to you at all. If they raised the subscription "a few bucks" to, let's say, $8/month x your party of 8 players = $64/month for your party. For that price you can buy 2 books/month and still have just about enough for a master tier subscription for one person (which is all that's needed to share the purchased content). You'd end up paying more than the cost of buying the books outright after the first 6 months.
Your math only makes sense if we all share the books. So if we play with any other groups. We're screwed. This math is only useful if you never plan to play with another group and doesn't take into account if someone just decides to randomly take over the account worth 370 dollars or the person who's in charge of it decides to cut and run with the 370 dollars worth of books or if someone just moves and doesn't talk to the group anymore and they're in charge of the account.
I mean the whole point of a subscription is paying more in the long run but not paying a lump sum up front. So I don't know why that concept of what I'm saying is strange to you. It's better than the subs now. Basically you get something you can already do with a couple more clicks but now it costs 6 bucks.
I think it's worth mentioning that only one person needs a Master level subscription, to enable sharing for a campaigns (3 campaigns actually).
That enables sharing of ALL of the purchased content that members of that campaign own.
If person A buys a Player's Handbook, then person B buys Xanathar's, and person C buys Volo's, whilst person D purchases the Master subscription - all of those 4 people will have access to all of those books because the master's subscription shares them with each other via the campaign.
This means a group isn't reliant on everyone handing money to one person to purchase the books to be shared - everyone can buy the content that they want.
I think it's worth mentioning that only one person needs a Master level subscription, to enable sharing for a campaigns (3 campaigns actually).
That enables sharing of ALL of the purchased content that members of that campaign own.
If person A buys a Player's Handbook, then person B buys Xanathar's, and person C buys Volo's, whilst person D purchases the Master subscription - all of those 4 people will have access to all of those books because the master's subscription shares them with each other via the campaign.
This means a group isn't reliant on everyone handing money to one person to purchase the books to be shared - everyone can buy the content that they want.
So if I buy say...Xanathar's on my account. Then my friend buys the players handbook on their separate account. Then another friend buys the monster manual on another completely separate account all the DM would need to do is make a completely separate account from the rest of us and somehow link our accounts with his and add us to a campaign? Because if it's the "we all buy one book on one communal account" way, it useless.
I mean still doesn't take into account the other things I said like if you play with a different group but still.
But it wouldn't make them more money. Let's go with your scenario, of everyone wanting to use the materials with separate groups and needing separate copies. In order for them to make the same amount of money as each person buying the Legendary Bundle now (~$360), they would need to have that person be a subscriber (at $8/month) for just shy of 4 years (45 months if we're being exact.. Given your group's previously stated unwillingness to even pay for the books in the first place, I highly doubt the 8 of you will pay consistently and continuously for the service for 4 years.
Your argument of "offer me a lower price so I actually buy your thing" is flawed because a "lost sale" assumes the person would buy the product at its valuation in the first place, whereas you've shown that (regardless of the format) your group is unwilling to pay the market price and will instead pirate. I don't walk into a Best Buy and try to get them to sell me a $500 TV for ~$10/month for the next 4 years and then when they don't agree to that call myself a "lost sale", it's the same concept here, though that concept seems to be "strange" to you.
EDIT: correction to my math, due to the Master tier already being $6/month, that'd be $2/month going towards the Legendary Bundle, meaning it would take 180 months, or 15 years before that model would be profitable.
Notes: mod note - calm down with the quotes please - makes the page difficult for people to read :)
So if I buy say...Xanathar's on my account. Then my friend buys the players handbook on their separate account. Then another friend buys the monster manual on another completely separate account all the DM would need to do is make a completely separate account from the rest of us and somehow link our accounts with his and add us to a campaign? Because if it's the "we all buy one book on one communal account" way, it useless.
You do not need a separate account for the Master Tier. Anyone in that campaign (DM or player) can buy the subscription and activate the sharing. There is no communal account.
I am also curious - someone is complaining of having to buy the books twice and also admitting that they do not know of anyone in their city (by inference, including themselves) who has actually bought a physical book, they all rely on illegal PDFs? How are you buying the book twice?
I am curious Mods - is there anything in the Terms and Conditions of this website that requires you to report uses who brag about breaking copyright laws (as opposed to folks who just make mention of the availability of illegal material)?
I am also curious - someone is complaining of having to buy the books twice and also admitting that they do not know of anyone in their city (by inference, including themselves) who has actually bought a physical book, they all rely on illegal PDFs? How are you buying the book twice?
I am curious Mods - is there anything in the Terms and Conditions of this website that requires you to report uses who brag about breaking copyright laws (as opposed to folks who just make mention of the availability of illegal material)?
Ah ah ah. I never said I bought the books. Also never said I downloaded the books. Left it open ended. Maybe I use my DM's pdf's that I would assume he got legally. I don't know. Gray areas are weird. If you read up farther I was wondering why would someone buy the book twice. Seems stupid to me. It's literally just, throwing way money.
So if I buy say...Xanathar's on my account. Then my friend buys the players handbook on their separate account. Then another friend buys the monster manual on another completely separate account all the DM would need to do is make a completely separate account from the rest of us and somehow link our accounts with his and add us to a campaign? Because if it's the "we all buy one book on one communal account" way, it useless.
You do not need a separate account for the Master Tier. Anyone in that campaign (DM or player) can buy the subscription and activate the sharing. There is no communal account.
I mean the DM would have his own account to have his own account anyways. We switch who DM's sometimes. But like I asked before "So if I buy say...Xanathar's on my account. Then my friend buys the players handbook on their separate account. Then another friend buys the monster manual on another completely separate account." I'll modify it here. "All someone would need to do is somehow link our accounts with theirs and add us to a campaign?"
Ah ah ah. I never said I bought the books. Also never said I downloaded the books. If you read up farther I was wondering why would someone buy the book twice. Seems stupid to me.
No, it is not stupid, because DDB is a service and a service has a cost. Whatever your opinion is about the service, please refrain from using the word 'stupid' for this context.
I mean the DM would have his own account to have his own account anyways. We switch who DM's sometimes. But like I asked before "So if I buy say...Xanathar's on my account. Then my friend buys the players handbook on their separate account. Then another friend buys the monster manual on another completely separate account." I'll modify it here. "All someone would need to do is somehow link our accounts with theirs and add us to a campaign?"
Yes, you just need to invite the players in a campaign slot, then the owner of the Master Tier activate the sharing and every purchase is available to everyone to use.
Basically, you need a DM to create a campaign, someone with a Master Tier subscription and x players (up to 12 per campaign)
Between the players/DM you need to have bought any source books that may be needed (or just the character content) for the campaign
DM creates the campaign, sends link to all players who join. Ideally he sends it to the person with the Master Tier sub first (if it is not him). Once the player with the subscription joins, they can enable content sharing in the campaign. Rest of the players can join and use all the content that has been shared.
In my particular group, I have a legendary bundle and my DM has the Master subscription. We have several different campaigns/one shots on the go at the same time - he can add the content sharing to up to three of them at a time.
At the moment, it is not possible to swap the DM within a campaign, but you do not have to be the subscriber to be the DM (at the moment, the DM is the one who creates the campaign - this may change in a future update, maybe even soon)
I mean the DM would have his own account to have his own account anyways. We switch who DM's sometimes. But like I asked before "So if I buy say...Xanathar's on my account. Then my friend buys the players handbook on their separate account. Then another friend buys the monster manual on another completely separate account." I'll modify it here. "All someone would need to do is somehow link our accounts with theirs and add us to a campaign?"
Yes. Person 1 has book A, person 2 has book B, person 3 has book C and person 4 has a Master Tier subscription. They all add characters to a shared campaign and person 4 enables sharing in the campaign, now everyone has access to all the owned books.
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Honestly it just isn't smart to not have this included. As of right now the only reason to sub to master or hero is for the homebrew stuff...which you can easily copy and paste in your own homebrew thing so a sub isn't needed. So many people would sub if this was added to the master and hero tiers. I'm not talking it's unlocked forever if you only sub for one month. I mean that it's unlocked only while you're subbed. They would make SO much money with this.
The subscriptions do much more than allowing access to the homebrew community. The Hero Tier unlocks unlimited character slots. The Master Tier, with the benefit of the Hero Tier, allows also the sharing of all the purchased content within a campaign slot.
They can't give you all the books for free. Wizards of the Coast doesn't allow this kind of functionality from it's digital distributors. In order to allow this, they would need to pay WotC a few hundred dollars on your behalf, then you pay them back over time with a $6 a month subscription? Seems like a massive loss for DDB.
For free? Did...did you not read where I said to add it to a sub. I mean so far neither of them are worth it. Unlimited characters? Make different FREE accounts. Super easy. Sharing with the master one. I mean you can always just...show your DM your character soooo. They're both pretty useless. The only thing that's useful is homebrew stuff. Which you can copy and paste which is what I did for multiple things. Or just copy and paste from the pdf of the books you have to make homebrewed normal spells which I've heard multiple people doing.
With how many people aren't buying the books on their website which, why would you if you already have the physical or pdf books, and how many people are just doing the homebrew work around they're losing a lot of income potential. I mean I know every person in my group and my DM would be subbed if that was the case. Let's do some quick maffs it's 370 for all the books and then 6 a month for the master tier so the DM can share. There are 8 people in my group not including the DM. No one in my group would do the sharing thing because pranks would be had. So that would take 15 month's to make up the same cost. That's money coming in each month that wouldn't be coming in normally. It usually takes a little under a decade to come out with a new edition. At least it did between fourth edition and 5th. Not even adding on those multiple other years of being subscribed after the initial year that makes up the cost. You also get more people spending money who normally SUPER wouldn't and people that just use ill-gotten pdfs.
Also for the them paying WotC a few hundred bucks...that's not how it works. Wizards would get a percentage of the sub profit that comes in. It's a contract that would take around 15 minutes for halfway competent lawyer to write up.
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D&D Beyond FoundersI'm going to guess that you don't have access to data on the numbers of D&D Beyond customers and what they buy - the staff at D&D Beyond do. They use that information to determine how the costing model works. Without going into details, I can tell you that D&D Beyond is very successful.
There are a lot of threads on these forums about comparing costs, which I suggest taking a look at.
Could you let me know why you believe that your entire group would all be willing to pay a monthly subscription, but you don't believe that it's worth purchasing content.
Note that, in most cases, purchasing the content you need for a campaign is cheaper than a single month of master subscription.
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
All digital distributors already have a contract. Negotiating a new contract with DDB would require them to renogtiate with everyone else like Roll20 and DMs Guild because those other sites would be getting screwed. Even if DDB gave 100% of the subscription to WotC, it wouldn't be worth it for WotC so why would they do that? DDB doesn't set the rules, the publisher (WotC) does. And a percentage of a sub is garbage for them when they can make 20$ off of a digital book sale.
And just because your group doesn't buy the books, does NOT mean that no one does. My group have physical copies, bootleg pdfs AND we have paid for all the books on DDB. So please, don't speak for us. We GLADLY pay for the books in DDB to support them and WotC because we want both companies to prosper. In fact, we all would pay even more if there was a way to do so. We know that the more money they have, the more features, adventures, and awesome products they can deliver.
Please explain how it wouldn't be worth it for Wizards. I mean it money coming in that wouldn't normally come in...ever. I mean even if that have to up the sub another couple of bucks it would at least still be worth it fo a sub. As of now they're pointless. It's stuff that can be done with just a couple extra mouse clicks. No one in my city buys the books, they illegally download them. We have no book stores near us that supply them. 29.99 a book is too rich for a lot of people's blood. I mean there is only around 50k people in my city but still. Not a single player that I've played with, multiple different groups, actually owns the books.
Also, who said I was speaking for you? Nowhere in my post did it say not a single player in ALL of the world has bought the books. What I did say was "With how many people aren't buying the books on their website which, why would you if you already have the physical or pdf books, and how many people are just doing the homebrew work around they're losing a lot of income potential."
Maybe you somehow, I don't know how, thought when I said the comment about who would buy the physical books and the ones on DnD Beyond I was talking about you specifically. It's because it's a waste of money and I find it idiotic to buy two of the same book. Especially at 30 bucks a pop. And if you and everyone you play with bought them more than twice that's just, whew, so so stupid and super fiscally irresponsible.
I've flat out asked them if they would if the books were included and they said yeah. As of right now it's useless. Especially when you can just copy and paste homebrew stuff into your own homebrew library. I mean, that's...thats it. We've had 20 minute long discussions on how it would just be a lot better.
Would the actual sales department of DND Beyond be willing to part with that information on how successful it is? I mean I know a mod wouldn't be able to see that because well, forum mods just don't have access to that info of inside sales and if they could that would be a really bad was of running a business. Insider trading out the ass. Butt if the company released the numbers of how many people buy the books I would be more than interested in seeing them.
Also for the cheaper than master tier. No it isn't. Not with the way the book stuff is chopped up. I mean you can't even see what feats are options until you buy the feats part of the book, since different feats are added in different books, you know the feat is in. Then there is equipment and races and all the other stuff just to make your character, chopped into tiny slivers of meat. It actually reminds me of when I worked in my families butcher shop.
I don't know who you heard from that the books are being added to the subscriptions. They've been pretty clear to say that it's not something in their current plans.
I also don't get how the pricing structure you're asking for is beneficial to you at all. If they raised the subscription "a few bucks" to, let's say, $8/month x your party of 8 players = $64/month for your party. For that price you can buy 2 books/month and still have just about enough for a master tier subscription for one person (which is all that's needed to share the purchased content). You'd end up paying more than the cost of buying the books outright after the first 6 months.
Your math only makes sense if we all share the books. So if we play with any other groups. We're screwed. This math is only useful if you never plan to play with another group and doesn't take into account if someone just decides to randomly take over the account worth 370 dollars or the person who's in charge of it decides to cut and run with the 370 dollars worth of books or if someone just moves and doesn't talk to the group anymore and they're in charge of the account.
I mean the whole point of a subscription is paying more in the long run but not paying a lump sum up front. So I don't know why that concept of what I'm saying is strange to you. It's better than the subs now. Basically you get something you can already do with a couple more clicks but now it costs 6 bucks.
Like I said it would make them more money.
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D&D Beyond FoundersI think it's worth mentioning that only one person needs a Master level subscription, to enable sharing for a campaigns (3 campaigns actually).
That enables sharing of ALL of the purchased content that members of that campaign own.
If person A buys a Player's Handbook, then person B buys Xanathar's, and person C buys Volo's, whilst person D purchases the Master subscription - all of those 4 people will have access to all of those books because the master's subscription shares them with each other via the campaign.
This means a group isn't reliant on everyone handing money to one person to purchase the books to be shared - everyone can buy the content that they want.
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Puts on dark sunglasses
Mr. Kenoten, my we have a word with you
So if I buy say...Xanathar's on my account. Then my friend buys the players handbook on their separate account. Then another friend buys the monster manual on another completely separate account all the DM would need to do is make a completely separate account from the rest of us and somehow link our accounts with his and add us to a campaign? Because if it's the "we all buy one book on one communal account" way, it useless.
I mean still doesn't take into account the other things I said like if you play with a different group but still.
But it wouldn't make them more money. Let's go with your scenario, of everyone wanting to use the materials with separate groups and needing separate copies. In order for them to make the same amount of money as each person buying the Legendary Bundle now (~$360), they would need to have that person be a subscriber (at $8/month) for just shy of 4 years (45 months if we're being exact.. Given your group's previously stated unwillingness to even pay for the books in the first place, I highly doubt the 8 of you will pay consistently and continuously for the service for 4 years.
Your argument of "offer me a lower price so I actually buy your thing" is flawed because a "lost sale" assumes the person would buy the product at its valuation in the first place, whereas you've shown that (regardless of the format) your group is unwilling to pay the market price and will instead pirate. I don't walk into a Best Buy and try to get them to sell me a $500 TV for ~$10/month for the next 4 years and then when they don't agree to that call myself a "lost sale", it's the same concept here, though that concept seems to be "strange" to you.
EDIT: correction to my math, due to the Master tier already being $6/month, that'd be $2/month going towards the Legendary Bundle, meaning it would take 180 months, or 15 years before that model would be profitable.
You do not need a separate account for the Master Tier. Anyone in that campaign (DM or player) can buy the subscription and activate the sharing. There is no communal account.
I am also curious - someone is complaining of having to buy the books twice and also admitting that they do not know of anyone in their city (by inference, including themselves) who has actually bought a physical book, they all rely on illegal PDFs? How are you buying the book twice?
I am curious Mods - is there anything in the Terms and Conditions of this website that requires you to report uses who brag about breaking copyright laws (as opposed to folks who just make mention of the availability of illegal material)?
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Ah ah ah. I never said I bought the books. Also never said I downloaded the books. Left it open ended. Maybe I use my DM's pdf's that I would assume he got legally. I don't know. Gray areas are weird. If you read up farther I was wondering why would someone buy the book twice. Seems stupid to me. It's literally just, throwing way money.
I mean the DM would have his own account to have his own account anyways. We switch who DM's sometimes. But like I asked before "So if I buy say...Xanathar's on my account. Then my friend buys the players handbook on their separate account. Then another friend buys the monster manual on another completely separate account." I'll modify it here. "All someone would need to do is somehow link our accounts with theirs and add us to a campaign?"
No, it is not stupid, because DDB is a service and a service has a cost. Whatever your opinion is about the service, please refrain from using the word 'stupid' for this context.
Yes, you just need to invite the players in a campaign slot, then the owner of the Master Tier activate the sharing and every purchase is available to everyone to use.
Basically, you need a DM to create a campaign, someone with a Master Tier subscription and x players (up to 12 per campaign)
Between the players/DM you need to have bought any source books that may be needed (or just the character content) for the campaign
DM creates the campaign, sends link to all players who join. Ideally he sends it to the person with the Master Tier sub first (if it is not him). Once the player with the subscription joins, they can enable content sharing in the campaign. Rest of the players can join and use all the content that has been shared.
In my particular group, I have a legendary bundle and my DM has the Master subscription. We have several different campaigns/one shots on the go at the same time - he can add the content sharing to up to three of them at a time.
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At the moment, it is not possible to swap the DM within a campaign, but you do not have to be the subscriber to be the DM (at the moment, the DM is the one who creates the campaign - this may change in a future update, maybe even soon)
How to add Tooltips
Yes. Person 1 has book A, person 2 has book B, person 3 has book C and person 4 has a Master Tier subscription. They all add characters to a shared campaign and person 4 enables sharing in the campaign, now everyone has access to all the owned books.