Oh I don't know maybe because nostalgia is a highly marketable thing, put that content back on the market as it is a seperate game system in its own right, imlementing expanded DDB tools would pay for itself. Take World of Warcraft or Monopoly for example. There was a demand for rerelease of WoW Classic, Blizzard gave them what they wanted. How many versions of Monopoly exist out there? No single version of that board game any more or less profitable than the others or they wouldn't be doing that.
LP "Vinyl" records outdated technology yet still to this day hugely popular and profitable.
Sooo the major part of the satanic panic happened at the start of its foundation and largely resolved itself by the time the 3rd edition.
People probably were and I know are, still claiming its evil and what not but they just are doing that and that wouldn't be considered part of the satanic panic that the OP is concerned that blocked the 3rd or 4th edition.
OP I get that you are passionate about this and I understand that other people would like this too. The main problem is I don't get why you OP don't come up with an argument or have facts about how this would be productive for WoTC to invest into doing such actions with DnD Beyond.
As for your claim that satanic panic was not a thing in those years of v3.x, I was literally kicked out of the family home and sent off to a christian indoctrination boarding school for several years simply for getting caught playing DnD (3.x at the time). So don't dare tell me S.P. wasnt real even then as opposed to only years before then. I was victimized by that bulls**t personally.
Edit: That was my sophomore - senior year of school years of 98-2001.
Looking at the number of yes's it would not be a profitable venture.
I would rather they spend their resources making Beyond work better for 5e then open an entirely new can of worms. More importantly I would rather they have Beyond prepped for day 1 of the new edition. Even if its close to the same ruleset it might still take a year's work to prepare for. We are about a year away from everyone freaking out about what will happen when the edition changes over to all the content we already have.
Looking at the number of yes's it would not be a profitable venture.
I would rather they spend their resources making Beyond work better for 5e then open an entirely new can of worms. More importantly I would rather they have Beyond prepped for day 1 of the new edition. Even if its close to the same ruleset it might still take a year's work to prepare for. We are about a year away from everyone freaking out about what will happen when the edition changes over to all the content we already have.
I have no qualms with WOTC continuing to make forward progress on current projects, it would be foolish not to but this notion that they can't commit even a fraction of that effort to expanding the app to include previous versions is ludicrous. The old versions are already dusted over so taking as much time as needed to do that wouldn't significantly affect them, and while they're doing that sell more of those books with a carrot on a stick promise that they're working to expand the app. People would be more inclined to wait patiently while they did so, and simultaneously commiting the rest of their efforts to current projects at the necessary pace to meet more static deadlines.
If funding is the issue, well, shit, Kickstarter and/or Patreon comes to mind. Take Star Citizen for example, an unfinished, unreleased game with one of the most effective crowdfunding campaigns out there, because while not even close to completion it's playable in its current condition and has been for many years now.
Sooo the major part of the satanic panic happened at the start of its foundation and largely resolved itself by the time the 3rd edition.
People probably were and I know are, still claiming its evil and what not but they just are doing that and that wouldn't be considered part of the satanic panic that the OP is concerned that blocked the 3rd or 4th edition.
OP I get that you are passionate about this and I understand that other people would like this too. The main problem is I don't get why you OP don't come up with an argument or have facts about how this would be productive for WoTC to invest into doing such actions with DnD Beyond.
As for your claim that satanic panic was not a thing in those years of v3.x, I was literally kicked out of the family home and sent off to a christian indoctrination boarding school for several years simply for getting caught playing DnD (3.x at the time). So don't dare tell me S.P. wasnt real even then as opposed to only years before then. I was victimized by that bulls**t personally.
Edit: That was my sophomore - senior year of school years of 98-2001.
So you quote people amd don't read quotes. I specifically said people said dnd was evil after the satanic panic and more than likely still do to this day. You quoted me saying that.
The satanic panic you're referring started in the 80s and largely resolved its ending prior to the release of 3rd edition. I'm sorry for what happened to you, it was definitely wrong, no two shakes about it.
That being said you're not acknowledging any of the sound arguments people are bringing.. I stead you keep resorting to emotional arguments that under most circumstances no corporation would "bow" to
You do know that Beyond was not owned by Wizards until recently right? It does not have to be Wizards that starts it. How do you think Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds started?
This is the gist you are giving me: 1. You do not want to put in the work to make things possible. 2. You want someone else to do the work for you. 3. You are refusing to acknowledge that financial obstacles exist. 4. You want people to do the work for you despite that financial obstacles exist, which ultimately boils down to someone in the supply chain not being compensated fairly.
Oh I don't know maybe because nostalgia is a highly marketable thing, put that content back on the market as it is a seperate game system in its own right, imlementing expanded DDB tools would pay for itself. Take World of Warcraft or Monopoly for example. There was a demand for rerelease of WoW Classic, Blizzard gave them what they wanted. How many versions of Monopoly exist out there? No single version of that board game any more or less profitable than the others or they wouldn't be doing that.
LP "Vinyl" records outdated technology yet still to this day hugely popular and profitable.
Can you prove that digitizing 3.5e and 4e would be as profitable as you claim them to be? Do you have that research?
WoW Classic did not happen overnight. There was lots of market research behind it. Do you really think Hasbro and Wizards did not do their market research and financial analysis to try to earn more money?
Every nonstandard Monopoly version have limited runs, and their printing run does not last forever. You can be paying an arm and leg depending on which version you want. And you do realize there is only one digital version of Monopoly on Steam, and that version is the main version and not any nonstandard version?
Risk is nice and all, but I like Risk: Europe far more, but Hasbro is not going to put that on Steam no matter how much I want them to.
This is a very firm reminder that while D&D Beyond positively embraces feedback, criticism, and the opinions of its user base, what is not and never will be embraced is rude, discourteous, and hostile behaviour from anyone.
If you cannot post civilly and respectfully, you should not post at all.
If people cannot be courteous in this thread, it will be locked
it's a fairly safe assumption that the monetary benefit to WotC would be negligible at best. Any aggression you've shown for other posters here is completely unwarranted.
I strongly disagree on both points.
How unsurprising. Since you've so nicely told posters to "check the numbers" I did, 18% in favor, 82% opposed. Even if every active forum member agreed with you that's a few hundred people at most, hardly a profitable customer base.
Here's another pearl of wisdom: there is no "best" or "better" version of D&D, there are simply personal preferences. Anyone claiming otherwise thinks far too highly of their opinion and is blinded by their own bias.
Insulting and attacking other people for disagreeing with you is certainly doing wonders for your sales pitch though and I'm just so impressed with your ability to weaponize a childhood trauma to justify your behavior. D&D Beyond/ online tools are not necessary to play any version of D&D and there's no deserving any of it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lightning Strike - A rebranded Fire Bolt for Wizards & Sorcerers.
Spirit Bomb - A holy fireball for Clerics, Paladins, & Divine Soul Sorcerers!
Sword Dancer - A Cleric subclass specifically for the Drow goddess Eilistraee.
Complicated and complex? Yes, but richer and infinitely more engaging for players and DM's. Did 3.0/3.5 have issues yes (points at PunPun) but all games ever created regardless of concept are imperfect and require some adjustnents and fine tuning. 5e itself however is GARBAGE and is only theoretically more popular because those kids of the 3.5 era are adults with kids and grandkids who inherited that passion without the conservative backlash of bygone years and those adults who have a fondness for what they barely got to enjoy as children themselves, are forced to accept as THE ONLY DND VERSION "worth playing". Those of us from that era DESERVE to have the same tools of today's iteration made available for the game version we loved which lacked the same vitally necessary tools you younger people overwhelmingly take for granted. This problem should NOT be relegated to anyone outside of Wizards' corporate team to solve in less than adequate ways.
Marketing numbers are not the only critically relevant factors to consider. Your statistical quotes ignore serious issues that existed in that era, RELIGIOUS ZEALOTRY and the cultural impact that it had on the popularity and accessibility of the v3.x game, and the very young state of the newly born internet ecosystem.
If you hate 5e so much, why are you still here? You're not getting the answer you're looking for, and since you clearly don't like 5e, you're not going to be a user of DDB. 3.5e and 4e are not going to get support from WOTC any more than the print-on-demand versions of the books over on DMsGuild.
Listen, I get where you're coming from, but you're angry at the wrong people here.
You mention you deserve tools to play the game, but fact is that you don't. You mention that you're a paying customer, but you're not a paying customer to WOTC if all you play is older editions that they're not making money off of anymore. The books are out of print. You are no longer a WOTC customer if you don't play any of their currently running products, which 5e is, and the older editions are not.
Would I like older edition support? Hell yes, I would absolutely love it. But the DDB can barely keep up with keeping the ******** to be good enough right now. It's not going to happen, and if it is, it's not going to be as long as WOTC owns this website.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
Oh I don't know maybe because nostalgia is a highly marketable thing, put that content back on the market as it is a seperate game system in its own right, imlementing expanded DDB tools would pay for itself. Take World of Warcraft or Monopoly for example. There was a demand for rerelease of WoW Classic, Blizzard gave them what they wanted. How many versions of Monopoly exist out there? No single version of that board game any more or less profitable than the others or they wouldn't be doing that.
LP "Vinyl" records outdated technology yet still to this day hugely popular and profitable.
As for your claim that satanic panic was not a thing in those years of v3.x, I was literally kicked out of the family home and sent off to a christian indoctrination boarding school for several years simply for getting caught playing DnD (3.x at the time). So don't dare tell me S.P. wasnt real even then as opposed to only years before then. I was victimized by that bulls**t personally.
Edit: That was my sophomore - senior year of school years of 98-2001.
Looking at the number of yes's it would not be a profitable venture.
I would rather they spend their resources making Beyond work better for 5e then open an entirely new can of worms. More importantly I would rather they have Beyond prepped for day 1 of the new edition. Even if its close to the same ruleset it might still take a year's work to prepare for. We are about a year away from everyone freaking out about what will happen when the edition changes over to all the content we already have.
I have no qualms with WOTC continuing to make forward progress on current projects, it would be foolish not to but this notion that they can't commit even a fraction of that effort to expanding the app to include previous versions is ludicrous. The old versions are already dusted over so taking as much time as needed to do that wouldn't significantly affect them, and while they're doing that sell more of those books with a carrot on a stick promise that they're working to expand the app. People would be more inclined to wait patiently while they did so, and simultaneously commiting the rest of their efforts to current projects at the necessary pace to meet more static deadlines.
If funding is the issue, well, shit, Kickstarter and/or Patreon comes to mind. Take Star Citizen for example, an unfinished, unreleased game with one of the most effective crowdfunding campaigns out there, because while not even close to completion it's playable in its current condition and has been for many years now.
So you quote people amd don't read quotes. I specifically said people said dnd was evil after the satanic panic and more than likely still do to this day. You quoted me saying that.
The satanic panic you're referring started in the 80s and largely resolved its ending prior to the release of 3rd edition. I'm sorry for what happened to you, it was definitely wrong, no two shakes about it.
That being said you're not acknowledging any of the sound arguments people are bringing.. I stead you keep resorting to emotional arguments that under most circumstances no corporation would "bow" to
You do know that Beyond was not owned by Wizards until recently right? It does not have to be Wizards that starts it. How do you think Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds started?
This is the gist you are giving me:
1. You do not want to put in the work to make things possible.
2. You want someone else to do the work for you.
3. You are refusing to acknowledge that financial obstacles exist.
4. You want people to do the work for you despite that financial obstacles exist, which ultimately boils down to someone in the supply chain not being compensated fairly.
Can you prove that digitizing 3.5e and 4e would be as profitable as you claim them to be? Do you have that research?
WoW Classic did not happen overnight. There was lots of market research behind it. Do you really think Hasbro and Wizards did not do their market research and financial analysis to try to earn more money?
Every nonstandard Monopoly version have limited runs, and their printing run does not last forever. You can be paying an arm and leg depending on which version you want. And you do realize there is only one digital version of Monopoly on Steam, and that version is the main version and not any nonstandard version?
Risk is nice and all, but I like Risk: Europe far more, but Hasbro is not going to put that on Steam no matter how much I want them to.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
This is a very firm reminder that while D&D Beyond positively embraces feedback, criticism, and the opinions of its user base, what is not and never will be embraced is rude, discourteous, and hostile behaviour from anyone.
If you cannot post civilly and respectfully, you should not post at all.
If people cannot be courteous in this thread, it will be locked
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
How unsurprising. Since you've so nicely told posters to "check the numbers" I did, 18% in favor, 82% opposed. Even if every active forum member agreed with you that's a few hundred people at most, hardly a profitable customer base.
Here's another pearl of wisdom: there is no "best" or "better" version of D&D, there are simply personal preferences. Anyone claiming otherwise thinks far too highly of their opinion and is blinded by their own bias.
Insulting and attacking other people for disagreeing with you is certainly doing wonders for your sales pitch though and I'm just so impressed with your ability to weaponize a childhood trauma to justify your behavior. D&D Beyond/ online tools are not necessary to play any version of D&D and there's no deserving any of it.
Lightning Strike - A rebranded Fire Bolt for Wizards & Sorcerers.
Spirit Bomb - A holy fireball for Clerics, Paladins, & Divine Soul Sorcerers!
Sword Dancer - A Cleric subclass specifically for the Drow goddess Eilistraee.
Quicksilver & The Scarlet Witch - A pair of magical firearms for your Gunslinger or Artificer.
If you hate 5e so much, why are you still here? You're not getting the answer you're looking for, and since you clearly don't like 5e, you're not going to be a user of DDB. 3.5e and 4e are not going to get support from WOTC any more than the print-on-demand versions of the books over on DMsGuild.
Listen, I get where you're coming from, but you're angry at the wrong people here.
You mention you deserve tools to play the game, but fact is that you don't. You mention that you're a paying customer, but you're not a paying customer to WOTC if all you play is older editions that they're not making money off of anymore. The books are out of print. You are no longer a WOTC customer if you don't play any of their currently running products, which 5e is, and the older editions are not.
Would I like older edition support? Hell yes, I would absolutely love it. But the DDB can barely keep up with keeping the ******** to be good enough right now. It's not going to happen, and if it is, it's not going to be as long as WOTC owns this website.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB