It's 2020 and I've seen this request on multiple forums as well as multiple times in this forum. I preach dndbeyond like it was the bible but as soon as people ask about homebrew classes, which happens a lot, I'll have to turn them down.
At this stage I would be happy with a blank Character sheet that I could form fill like a pdf. Many of us did it with pencil and paper for decades. I would have no problem spending the time typing in stats and abilities and what have you.
What I meant is, a blank character sheet would enable me to use the app at the table whereas currently I can’t. It would be easy to knock up a revised ranger for example using a Beyond digital sheet as a blank template. Just like a form fillable PDF. It saddens me to have to use different software to do this when all I want to use is Beyond.
A blank modifyable sheet would be great. Though i dont think they have this high on their priority list. Unfortunately, this is the biggest downside to dndbeyond when i consider advertising dndbeyond to friends. I hope they move this up on their roadmap.
The moment you implement a good and flexible home brew system... is the moment I buy a subscription. Thanks DNDBeyond! I look forward to a working home brew system!
As someone trying to create my own sci-fi world using DDB, this is a heavily sought after feature. I understand it would be complicated from a programming standpoint, but this feature is something that has turned MANY people off from using the service. So many would prefer to use an official system like this with all your stuff already integrated, and Classes are a key component in world building. For those like me who want a break from high-fantasy and are trying to design a sci-fi world in your system because of the beautiful integration, it makes DDB a complete turn-off. I mean, sure, I could use Druid as the base class, then use a subclass to give access to my Nano-Specialist nanobot abilities, but isn't that reinventing the wheel? Especially since I now also have to fight my way to remove Wild Shape and other abilities (which I can't seem to get rid of), not to mention that telling the system that the subclass can not cast spells (just to add my own in the Additional Specific Spells) does not remove the existing Known spells.
World building and homebrew creation is something that has drawn many a story teller to D&D. I understand that this is now something for waaay down the list for the future, but why was this skipped over to begin with? "It's hard." Yeah it is, and a core part of the game, and I don't know too many people that want to only alter a specific part of an existing class.
It’s a shame that Esper Genesis (think: sci-fi D&D 5e by a different producer) can’t be added to this program. That would allow for science fiction gaming as a possibility.
Homebrew classes would be ideal for sci-fi gaming, but I guess homebrewing subclasses, feats, equipment, and spells, as well as limiting certain classes in your campaign, are the only way to do it for the moment.
It looks like “character builder overhaul” is on the shorter term list of the roadmap. Can any devs comment on whether this will allow for home brew classes? There is a “home brew revamp” listed under longer term roadmap, but who knows how many years that will take. Sorry dndbeyond, not sure I can wait that long. By then I may get invested elsewhere. I hope you really consider pushing this up in priority. DND was created with home brew in mind originally. I love your site and service, but this lack of a feature Comes off as overly restrictive.
I don't get it... how hard can it be to add "shell" classes? All you need is a Hit Die if you want to make it really simple on your telecommuting programmers, and Homebrewers can fill out the rest.
I will say, though, homebrewing is pretty clunky on DDB. Try making a +1 to hit only weapon, for one example. I'm looking forward to this "homebrew revamp," if such a thing will ever happen.
I don't get it... how hard can it be to add "shell" classes? All you need is a Hit Die if you want to make it really simple on your telecommuting programmers, and Homebrewers can fill out the rest.
I will say, though, homebrewing is pretty clunky on DDB. Try making a +1 to hit only weapon, for one example. I'm looking forward to this "homebrew revamp," if such a thing will ever happen.
Ultimately the answer is 'very hard' because it's not about 'shell classes', it's about making a system that can allow any modifier or feature to be added at any level and supported by all the relevant tools; character builder, encounter tracker (eventually), dice roller, character sheet app, avrae. The thing with homebrew classes are that they're nothing like anything else; almost all other homebrew options follow a structure, even subclasses.
Say I want to make a class that can produce effects using a deck of cards that can be added to as I level. The system would need to support:
The ability to create a custom deck of card options
Mapping abilities to cards
The ability to display the cards in the character sheet, potentially as it's own tab
Setting up card selection options by level blocks
And that's just a surface level pass of what might be needed for one part of a hypothetical class, more than just a hit die.
If you're suggesting a 'blank' character sheet that you can fill with your homebrew class that doesn't interact with any of the tools or interactivity of the digital character sheet, well that already exists in with the form fillable PDFs on WotCs site
Say I want to make a sub-class that can produce effects using a deck of cards that can be added to as I level.
ALL the same empty arguements can be made for reasons we shouldn't have subclasses as they are now. And yet, we're given the ability to make subclasses. We can live without the special edge-case card mage ability in classes, just like we live without that ability in subclasses now.
Subclasses are fixed in what features you have to map to them. If a class has subclass features at levels 2, 6, 11, and 15, your homebrew subclass has to have those same level features otherwise you can't publish it. A subclass can't add new resources or create a spell list (for example, you can't make a warlock subclass that uses ki or give make a monk subclass that has a spell list).
The point is that a subclass is predefined in what it can do by its class, but classes define everything. All cleric subclasses are fundamentally uniform across the board, but classes are each individually unique. This isn't a strawman (a poor representation of the opposing argument that is easily knocked down), it's a valid demonstration that classes are several orders of magnitude more complex than a subclass or any other homebrew item.
If you want a case study in the complexity of classes, look back to how much work it took the D&D Beyond team to get the artificer working, considering they aren't limited by needing a system that automatically catches any character sheet breaking issues. They instead enter stuff pretty much directly into the system with the ability to create custom variables and modifiers at a database level, and then QA it directly.
So, if they made an empty shell class (for each Hit Dice), that had an empty subclass that added features at 1st - 20th level... we'd be fine.
You most certainly can add spelllists to sub-class (look no further than Eldritch Knights) anyone who has made a few subclasses are very familiar with the section "SPELLS --Add a spell or spell list that the class feature may grant access to." in the subclasses editor. That editor is plenty robust enough to design the vast majority of classes anyone is going to want to homebrew. It's not easy, it's not pretty, it's not flawless, we're not asking for that... just asking for possible.
In fact; Under "Class Features->Modifiers" if they just added "HitDice" as a 'Modifier Subtype' under 'Modifier Type "Set" '... we could just do it ourselves with the subclass and they wouldn't even have to give us a shell for each (just default to d8 or something) and we could change it at first level.
I'm honestly not sure how a 'shell class' would be expected to work with the various tools. You sound familiar with the homebrew tools, so you're likely familiar with how you have to build the features on several levels; main description, snippet, associated actions, options etc. None of this would be possible with a 'shell class' assuming you mean something with less functionality that a subclass. It sounds like (and I could be wrong) that your suggesting something more akin to a form-fillable character sheet, like the PDFs offered on the WotC site, and not something that'd be compatible with the DDB tools.
I'm honestly not sure how a 'shell class' would be expected to work with the various tools. You sound familiar with the homebrew tools, so you're likely familiar with how you have to build the features on several levels; main description, snippet, associated actions, options etc. None of this would be possible with a 'shell class' assuming you mean something with less functionality that a subclass. It sounds like (and I could be wrong) that your suggesting something more akin to a form-fillable character sheet, like the PDFs offered on the WotC site, and not something that'd be compatible with the DDB tools.
I'm aware, but I'm not clear on what DDB tools you are referring to.
Character Builder/Sheet? No problem, just like any other character class. It just wouldn't get class features. You'd still have a character, they could use equipment, magic items, track XP, track HP, none of this would be affected by not having class features as long as you have a class. So while you are not getting the benefit of any automation of class features, there's still an added benefit over form-fillable pdfs. They could multiclass with standard classes and benefit from automated class features there. For the enterprising homebrewer, homebrew feats, magic items and subclasses can be used to make the features that these tools can support. Again, I'm well-aware of their limitations, but also of their possibilities for those inclined to put in some effort.
Encounter builder? Doesn't interact with the character classes. Encounter Tracker? It just looks up values from the sheet. Avrae? Same as the tracker. Compendium? Doesn't need to be in there.
I definitely agree that this won't support arbitrary features and that it's not an ideal solution. The ideal solution for me would be that they put manpower on the homebrew overhaul with the intention to support homebrew classes and maybe have some folks working on some of the basic stuff that doesn't quite work like it should. I mean, how did they not expect that someone would like to change the damage die on a weapon?
But that is not where the community is asking them to put their priorities and I respect that. Which is why I'm advocating this, to my mind, simple solution. This should be no more work than implementing a new Unearthed Arcana class, in fact, less than that.
Now, as I've said before, I realise that I could be very much mistaken about the complexities involved and I'm open to correction, I just haven't heard any convincing arguments. And from my time spent working out a character importer for MapTool, I've only gotten more confident that it is relatively simple.
The only reason that I can think of to not do this, is because they'd be afraid of getting flak for putting out something that doesn't do what people expect, even though they're pretty clear on . And I can kind of get that, but that's just speculation on my part.
ETA
W.r.t. post 84, Orbital Bliss has it right that the subclass homebrewing tools are a lot more flexible than you give them credit for. I think you can even give out class, sorry subclass, features at the levels that are not required to have subclass features.
I think you can even give out class, sorry subclass, features at the levels that are not required to have subclass features.
That's correct. I myself have made a homebrew Ranger with "subclass" abilities from 1st to 20th level. The only annoying part about it is that I have to ignore the abilities that were already there, and of course, 1st level abilities aren't shown until after the subclass is chosen.
I'm honestly not sure how a 'shell class' would be expected to work with the various tools. You sound familiar with the homebrew tools, so you're likely familiar with how you have to build the features on several levels; main description, snippet, associated actions, options etc. None of this would be possible with a 'shell class' assuming you mean something with less functionality that a subclass. It sounds like (and I could be wrong) that your suggesting something more akin to a form-fillable character sheet, like the PDFs offered on the WotC site, and not something that'd be compatible with the DDB tools.
It sounds to me like it's easier than you think. If subclasses can be made, classes can be made. I don't see how your objections are relevant. No one is asking for complex features. We want to use the system that's already there, with less stuff in the way.
It's 2020 and I've seen this request on multiple forums as well as multiple times in this forum. I preach dndbeyond like it was the bible but as soon as people ask about homebrew classes, which happens a lot, I'll have to turn them down.
Hi! I was wondering if there was a place to post homebrew classes on the forums for peer review or if it'd be best to place it in the DM's Guild.
At this stage I would be happy with a blank Character sheet that I could form fill like a pdf. Many of us did it with pencil and paper for decades. I would have no problem spending the time typing in stats and abilities and what have you.
I would NOT be happy with just a blank fillable sheet. If you want that, just make custom feats and add those to your character.
They have no responsible reason to not give us an empty character class, and allow custom subclasses for it starting at level 1. Fixed, for now.
What I meant is, a blank character sheet would enable me to use the app at the table whereas currently I can’t. It would be easy to knock up a revised ranger for example using a Beyond digital sheet as a blank template. Just like a form fillable PDF. It saddens me to have to use different software to do this when all I want to use is Beyond.
A blank modifyable sheet would be great. Though i dont think they have this high on their priority list. Unfortunately, this is the biggest downside to dndbeyond when i consider advertising dndbeyond to friends. I hope they move this up on their roadmap.
The moment you implement a good and flexible home brew system... is the moment I buy a subscription. Thanks DNDBeyond! I look forward to a working home brew system!
I am super sad to see they have so many homebrew options but none for classes! I want my pure necromancer ;w;
As someone trying to create my own sci-fi world using DDB, this is a heavily sought after feature. I understand it would be complicated from a programming standpoint, but this feature is something that has turned MANY people off from using the service. So many would prefer to use an official system like this with all your stuff already integrated, and Classes are a key component in world building. For those like me who want a break from high-fantasy and are trying to design a sci-fi world in your system because of the beautiful integration, it makes DDB a complete turn-off. I mean, sure, I could use Druid as the base class, then use a subclass to give access to my Nano-Specialist nanobot abilities, but isn't that reinventing the wheel? Especially since I now also have to fight my way to remove Wild Shape and other abilities (which I can't seem to get rid of), not to mention that telling the system that the subclass can not cast spells (just to add my own in the Additional Specific Spells) does not remove the existing Known spells.
World building and homebrew creation is something that has drawn many a story teller to D&D. I understand that this is now something for waaay down the list for the future, but why was this skipped over to begin with? "It's hard." Yeah it is, and a core part of the game, and I don't know too many people that want to only alter a specific part of an existing class.
It’s a shame that Esper Genesis (think: sci-fi D&D 5e by a different producer) can’t be added to this program. That would allow for science fiction gaming as a possibility.
Homebrew classes would be ideal for sci-fi gaming, but I guess homebrewing subclasses, feats, equipment, and spells, as well as limiting certain classes in your campaign, are the only way to do it for the moment.
It looks like “character builder overhaul” is on the shorter term list of the roadmap. Can any devs comment on whether this will allow for home brew classes? There is a “home brew revamp” listed under longer term roadmap, but who knows how many years that will take. Sorry dndbeyond, not sure I can wait that long. By then I may get invested elsewhere. I hope you really consider pushing this up in priority. DND was created with home brew in mind originally. I love your site and service, but this lack of a feature Comes off as overly restrictive.
Dndbeyond roadmap forum: https://trello.com/b/vIKxuEs8/dd-beyond-feature-roadmap
I don't get it... how hard can it be to add "shell" classes? All you need is a Hit Die if you want to make it really simple on your telecommuting programmers, and Homebrewers can fill out the rest.
I will say, though, homebrewing is pretty clunky on DDB. Try making a +1 to hit only weapon, for one example. I'm looking forward to this "homebrew revamp," if such a thing will ever happen.
Ultimately the answer is 'very hard' because it's not about 'shell classes', it's about making a system that can allow any modifier or feature to be added at any level and supported by all the relevant tools; character builder, encounter tracker (eventually), dice roller, character sheet app, avrae. The thing with homebrew classes are that they're nothing like anything else; almost all other homebrew options follow a structure, even subclasses.
Say I want to make a class that can produce effects using a deck of cards that can be added to as I level. The system would need to support:
And that's just a surface level pass of what might be needed for one part of a hypothetical class, more than just a hit die.
If you're suggesting a 'blank' character sheet that you can fill with your homebrew class that doesn't interact with any of the tools or interactivity of the digital character sheet, well that already exists in with the form fillable PDFs on WotCs site
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Say I want to make a sub-class that can produce effects using a deck of cards that can be added to as I level.
ALL the same empty arguements can be made for reasons we shouldn't have subclasses as they are now. And yet, we're given the ability to make subclasses.
We can live without the special edge-case card mage ability in classes, just like we live without that ability in subclasses now.
Walk away, strawman.
Subclasses are fixed in what features you have to map to them. If a class has subclass features at levels 2, 6, 11, and 15, your homebrew subclass has to have those same level features otherwise you can't publish it. A subclass can't add new resources or create a spell list (for example, you can't make a warlock subclass that uses ki or give make a monk subclass that has a spell list).
The point is that a subclass is predefined in what it can do by its class, but classes define everything. All cleric subclasses are fundamentally uniform across the board, but classes are each individually unique. This isn't a strawman (a poor representation of the opposing argument that is easily knocked down), it's a valid demonstration that classes are several orders of magnitude more complex than a subclass or any other homebrew item.
If you want a case study in the complexity of classes, look back to how much work it took the D&D Beyond team to get the artificer working, considering they aren't limited by needing a system that automatically catches any character sheet breaking issues. They instead enter stuff pretty much directly into the system with the ability to create custom variables and modifiers at a database level, and then QA it directly.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
So, if they made an empty shell class (for each Hit Dice), that had an empty subclass that added features at 1st - 20th level... we'd be fine.
You most certainly can add spelllists to sub-class (look no further than Eldritch Knights) anyone who has made a few subclasses are very familiar with the section "SPELLS --Add a spell or spell list that the class feature may grant access to." in the subclasses editor. That editor is plenty robust enough to design the vast majority of classes anyone is going to want to homebrew. It's not easy, it's not pretty, it's not flawless, we're not asking for that... just asking for possible.
In fact; Under "Class Features->Modifiers" if they just added "HitDice" as a 'Modifier Subtype' under 'Modifier Type "Set" '... we could just do it ourselves with the subclass and they wouldn't even have to give us a shell for each (just default to d8 or something) and we could change it at first level.
I'm honestly not sure how a 'shell class' would be expected to work with the various tools. You sound familiar with the homebrew tools, so you're likely familiar with how you have to build the features on several levels; main description, snippet, associated actions, options etc. None of this would be possible with a 'shell class' assuming you mean something with less functionality that a subclass. It sounds like (and I could be wrong) that your suggesting something more akin to a form-fillable character sheet, like the PDFs offered on the WotC site, and not something that'd be compatible with the DDB tools.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I'm aware, but I'm not clear on what DDB tools you are referring to.
Character Builder/Sheet? No problem, just like any other character class. It just wouldn't get class features. You'd still have a character, they could use equipment, magic items, track XP, track HP, none of this would be affected by not having class features as long as you have a class. So while you are not getting the benefit of any automation of class features, there's still an added benefit over form-fillable pdfs. They could multiclass with standard classes and benefit from automated class features there. For the enterprising homebrewer, homebrew feats, magic items and subclasses can be used to make the features that these tools can support. Again, I'm well-aware of their limitations, but also of their possibilities for those inclined to put in some effort.
Encounter builder? Doesn't interact with the character classes. Encounter Tracker? It just looks up values from the sheet. Avrae? Same as the tracker. Compendium? Doesn't need to be in there.
I definitely agree that this won't support arbitrary features and that it's not an ideal solution. The ideal solution for me would be that they put manpower on the homebrew overhaul with the intention to support homebrew classes and maybe have some folks working on some of the basic stuff that doesn't quite work like it should. I mean, how did they not expect that someone would like to change the damage die on a weapon?
But that is not where the community is asking them to put their priorities and I respect that. Which is why I'm advocating this, to my mind, simple solution. This should be no more work than implementing a new Unearthed Arcana class, in fact, less than that.
Now, as I've said before, I realise that I could be very much mistaken about the complexities involved and I'm open to correction, I just haven't heard any convincing arguments. And from my time spent working out a character importer for MapTool, I've only gotten more confident that it is relatively simple.
The only reason that I can think of to not do this, is because they'd be afraid of getting flak for putting out something that doesn't do what people expect, even though they're pretty clear on . And I can kind of get that, but that's just speculation on my part.
ETA
W.r.t. post 84, Orbital Bliss has it right that the subclass homebrewing tools are a lot more flexible than you give them credit for. I think you can even give out class, sorry subclass, features at the levels that are not required to have subclass features.
Vote here for an interim solution for homebrew classes:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360036951934-Homebrew-class-interim-solution
That's correct. I myself have made a homebrew Ranger with "subclass" abilities from 1st to 20th level. The only annoying part about it is that I have to ignore the abilities that were already there, and of course, 1st level abilities aren't shown until after the subclass is chosen.
It sounds to me like it's easier than you think. If subclasses can be made, classes can be made. I don't see how your objections are relevant. No one is asking for complex features. We want to use the system that's already there, with less stuff in the way.
Simple features to provide us all the customization we will ever need with little to no automation:
1. Blank Homebrew Class option for both race and class that lists no feats, no subclasses, no perks
2. Blank customize-able fields that we can add to the race&class feats, equipment, inventory, misc sections, etc...
3. Addition of custom modifiers (Initiative, AC, weapon/spell attack to-hit and damage, spell saves, attributes, etc...)
4. (Less Critical) Custom Ammunition/Spell Slot/Misc trackers
Honestly, minimal automation is needed with this approach.
(Just check out Roll20's default character sheet. Makes home-brewing characters practically brainless work)
PS: I rolled a crit 20 on my persuasion roll just now. (And if you call me out on that... i rolled a crit 20 on my deception roll...)
Can I get some upvotes for this my peoples? ;)