My current campaigns were running DnDNext. My new campaigns were going to run DnD 2024.
As of now, I have cancelled my sub, will not be buying any more content (digital or physical), and am in the process of converting the campaigns to alternative game systems (Starfinder and Pathfinder). The new campaigns I have planned will be using those systems as well.
99% of that is due to how poorly this rollout has been, and how it's clearly trying to push users to the new, pricier 'edition' of the content by making the content that we've already purchased harder to use.
There is a toggle in the character settings, allowing you to turn Legacy Content on and off. Another that allows you to decide whether or not to use the expanded rules (Tasha's, et cetera, I assume).
There needs to be a similar toggle for the 2024 core rules. Would be even better if a campaign could be toggled to allow/disallow 2024 rules, as well as individual characters, but that's not super necessary.
I would say a toggle for all 2024+ content, but books may come out in the future that people may want to purchase and use with 5e (not 5.24e) characters.
Please stop shoving the 2024 rules down our throats. It only makes us less likely to continue with DDB, and certainly less likely to buy more content post 2024 to use with new campaigns, if we can't even filter out the core 2024 content from legacy characters/games.
Breaks promises on usability of old 2014 content to force sales of the 2024 stuff
Please do not spread disinformation. As one of the persons who staunchly advocated for the preservation of 2014 content on Beyond, Beyond has kept 2014 content in the character builder as accessible and usable as before. Barring bugs, anything I can do in the character builder before September 3, I can still do so right now.
Having a toggle for 2024 content would be nice, but I do not see that happening. 2024 content is the new default content, and just as 2014 used to be the default content, default content cannot be turned off on Beyond.
Tries to destroy the OGL, tries to gaslight ppl into thinking they did it to combat racism, tries to avoid accountability for all that
Not relevant to the discussion, but Wizards owns the D&D IP, and Wizards can do whatever they want with their IP, including charging third parties for using Wizard's IP.
Yeah, you can still use 2014 rules as 2024 dont prevent it, but the user interface experience is so annoying that i will probably stop using DnDbeyond, which means stop buying books and so
And at this point its kinda obvious that annoy users to the point they rather change to 2024 rules was the goal.
I mean i never cared about alleged scandals like OGL or other BS, but at this point it would be fixed if it was just mistake or just overlooked factor
And i mentioned it before - DnD Beyond had chance to become immortal app if they manage to run two editions at same time. That would be proof of longevitx of the app and hope for others editions and setting to come
Only thing what i want from the app is to be able browse purchased content without constantly tripping on 2024 edition
Yeah, you can still use 2014 rules as 2024 dont prevent it, but the user interface experience is so annoying that i will probably stop using DnDbeyond, which means stop buying books and so
And at this point its kinda obvious that annoy users to the point they rather change to 2024 rules was the goal.
I will not disagree that it is annoying. I mostly play D&D with my close friends, so not having a toggle is not a big deal. But if I were to GM for brand new players, I want to be able to toggle off both PHBs, so new players can just focus on the BR/SRD, and not get overwhelmed by a ton of options.
I am content with the way things are at the moment. The most important thing is that they preserve 2014 content as it was in the character builder. Bug fixes and making UI better can be done in time. Obviously, it would be nice if they can do things on time, but I am going to keep my expectations realistic.
Breaks promises on usability of old 2014 content to force sales of the 2024 stuff
Please do not spread disinformation. As one of the persons who staunchly advocated for the preservation of 2014 content on Beyond, Beyond has kept 2014 content in the character builder as accessible and usable as before. Barring bugs, anything I can do in the character builder before September 3, I can still do so right now.
Having a toggle for 2024 content would be nice, but I do not see that happening. 2024 content is the new default content, and just as 2014 used to be the default content, default content cannot be turned off on Beyond.
This is not disinformation. It is far from usable, even without bugs. Disabling the source books of 2024 via character sharing do not work, even if it would, the core rules are still there. You have to check thrice if you use the correct spell and depending on if the spell exists in two versions or not, you can not just simply check if its tagged as legacy. Wherever you have to chose something, the 2024 rules are omnipresent without any explanation and you have to scroll down, making mistakes happen all the time.
DNDBeyond is just annoying and your excuse of that being the default content may work for you, but not for me. Not to justify the subsription - and thats what we vote with what the default content is. I sincere hope (and believe it will) that 2024 flop, because then wotc is forced to act. BTW not just to get a better dndbeyond, but also because the new ruleset is pretty shit in my opinion.
That said, my patience is at its end anyway and I already purchased a different game where I prep my campaigns to move over to. I am done with wotc.
Yeah, you can still use 2014 rules as 2024 dont prevent it, but the user interface experience is so annoying that i will probably stop using DnDbeyond, which means stop buying books and so
And at this point its kinda obvious that annoy users to the point they rather change to 2024 rules was the goal.
I will not disagree that it is annoying. I mostly play D&D with my close friends, so not having a toggle is not a big deal. But if I were to GM for brand new players, I want to be able to toggle off both PHBs, so new players can just focus on the BR/SRD, and not get overwhelmed by a ton of options.
I am content with the way things are at the moment. The most important thing is that they preserve 2014 content as it was in the character builder. Bug fixes and making UI better can be done in time. Obviously, it would be nice if they can do things on time, but I am going to keep my expectations realistic.
Its not just that. Im quite an active DM and i do some prep work almost every day / i watch quite a lot of DnD shows - so i really often looks for some details, spells and etc.
But listing/search in app is just so 'urgh' now because even if it have filters, it resets every time.
At first i was like 'im sorry, i just dont like 24 edition, mayabe in future i will gie it try'. Now i starts to hate it and regret money i spend on sources. I mean it changed the perspective of all the DnD paid content. That means the 'feel' and also the logic - without app, why should i even bother to purchase something?
And it all comes on top of that i feel like there is actually not much value of digital platform - at first i was in awe because it really helped in some aspects, now im going more and more back to pen and paper because most of DM features are now underdevelopt as it didnt move in months (years) so the only really usefull feature is character builder and difital sheet in app. Both now endangered by rules which i dont want to use
Also in some instance there is legacy content for content which is now also legacy and they are marked same
Breaks promises on usability of old 2014 content to force sales of the 2024 stuff
Please do not spread disinformation. As one of the persons who staunchly advocated for the preservation of 2014 content on Beyond, Beyond has kept 2014 content in the character builder as accessible and usable as before. Barring bugs, anything I can do in the character builder before September 3, I can still do so right now.
Having a toggle for 2024 content would be nice, but I do not see that happening. 2024 content is the new default content, and just as 2014 used to be the default content, default content cannot be turned off on Beyond.
This is not disinformation. It is far from usable, even without bugs. Disabling the source books of 2024 via character sharing do not work, even if it would, the core rules are still there. You have to check thrice if you use the correct spell and depending on if the spell exists in two versions or not, you can not just simply check if its tagged as legacy. Wherever you have to chose something, the 2024 rules are omnipresent without any explanation and you have to scroll down, making mistakes happen all the time.
Making strictly 2014 characters is not that much more difficult. We were already scrolling for class, subclass, and species options before the new PHB options, and the increase in scrolling will happen regardless if the new core rules exist, because there will always be new rules/options that gets added over time. The spells in the character builder and character sheet literally tell you the source the spell is from.
DNDBeyond is just annoying and your excuse of that being the default content may work for you, but not for me. Not to justify the subsription - and thats what we vote with what the default content is. I sincere hope (and believe it will) that 2024 flop, because then wotc is forced to act. BTW not just to get a better dndbeyond, but also because the new ruleset is pretty shit in my opinion.
The new PHBs are selling like hot cakes, so there is no chance of flopping anymore. Wizards will continue its current game design trend because that is what most people want.
As for D&D Beyond, I agree it is not the best digital tool set for experienced GMs and players, but it is the most accessible and convenient for new GMs and players out of the four official digital tools.
Breaks promises on usability of old 2014 content to force sales of the 2024 stuff
Please do not spread disinformation. As one of the persons who staunchly advocated for the preservation of 2014 content on Beyond, Beyond has kept 2014 content in the character builder as accessible and usable as before. Barring bugs, anything I can do in the character builder before September 3, I can still do so right now.
Having a toggle for 2024 content would be nice, but I do not see that happening. 2024 content is the new default content, and just as 2014 used to be the default content, default content cannot be turned off on Beyond.
This is not disinformation. It is far from usable, even without bugs. Disabling the source books of 2024 via character sharing do not work, even if it would, the core rules are still there. You have to check thrice if you use the correct spell and depending on if the spell exists in two versions or not, you can not just simply check if its tagged as legacy. Wherever you have to chose something, the 2024 rules are omnipresent without any explanation and you have to scroll down, making mistakes happen all the time.
Making strictly 2014 characters is not that much more difficult. We were already scrolling for class, subclass, and species options before the new PHB options, and the increase in scrolling will happen regardless if the new core rules exist, because there will always be new rules/options that gets added over time. The spells in the character builder and character sheet literally tell you the source the spell is from.
DNDBeyond is just annoying and your excuse of that being the default content may work for you, but not for me. Not to justify the subsription - and thats what we vote with what the default content is. I sincere hope (and believe it will) that 2024 flop, because then wotc is forced to act. BTW not just to get a better dndbeyond, but also because the new ruleset is pretty shit in my opinion.
The new PHBs are selling like hot cakes, so there is no chance of flopping anymore. Wizards will continue its current game design trend because that is what most people want.
As for D&D Beyond, I agree it is not the best digital tool set for experienced GMs and players, but it is the most accessible and convenient for new GMs and players out of the four official digital tools.
I took have been afflicted with this issue! Bought the digital 2014 PHB thinking it would make my game easier and help with character creation for my nature cleric. And it did!
For about two months. Now it looks like I’ll have to switch back to manually creating my character as it seems to be mixing in 2024 class and subclass features. I’m only level 3 and it’s a pain to consider having to do it the full way through. So much for making it easier. I don’t see why they can’t have a toggle like they do to turn off or remove Rick and Morty rules why not allow to choose which PHB I to use.
It is frustrating. Especially with how ALL THE LINKS in the 2014 PHB and rules documents now go to the free 2024 rules, so if you click on "Stealth" or "Hide" while on the PHB in it will take you to the wrong rules.
The new PHBs are selling like hot cakes, so there is no chance of flopping anymore. Wizards will continue its current game design trend because that is what most people want.
@XXXGammaRay - Where are you getting the sales data? I'm not challenging you on this. I was actually wondering yesterday how I would go look that stuff up. I saw people in other threads claiming the sales were very slow compared to Tasha's, but I don't know if their data was good, so I thought I'd go try and see for myself.
This is exactly what hurt our session two weeks ago. I have new players and we were relying on DDB in-game. They'd click on a spell and would get the new link or a "Can't find what you're looking for? Check out the marketplace" (or whatever)
@XXXGammaRay - Where are you getting the sales data? I'm not challenging you on this. I was actually wondering yesterday how I would go look that stuff up. I saw people in other threads claiming the sales were very slow compared to Tasha's, but I don't know if their data was good, so I thought I'd go try and see for myself.
Quoting: Wizards of the Coast announced that the 2024 Player's Handbook has become the fastest-selling Dungeons & Dragons product ever. It passed Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything (see "'D&D Tasha's Cauldron of Everything'") to make it the biggest product launch in the game's 50-year history. To meet demand, WotC has printed three times the number of 2024 Player's Handbooks than the 2014 edition.
Totally agree with the OP, but it's not just character sheets. If you use the app to "Search everywhere" it's difficult to decern which ruleset you are looking at. I need a filter for just the "Legacy" content.
This is a deal breaker. My annual subscription is coming up in November, I've currently set it to not renew, and am contemplating alternate digital platforms. Until they can sort this mess out.
Update:
Actually just cancelled my subscription. Left feedback accordingly. Hopefully they will notice.
I would really miss all the people who got so fed up they left over the last couple of years.... if they actually left.
I think a problem for a lot of people, including myself, is that we are mid-campaign at the moment and don't want to switch to something right in the middle. I've been running a campaign since the OGL debacle and I've wanted to move to a different system very badly because everything since then has just gotten worse, but transitioning to a new system with players who are still brand new to TTRPG is just not going to happen. Not until we finish the campaign and I can work on the next one from scratch. I'm in talks with some friends right now to start a campaign in PF2e and may use Shadow of the Demon Lord for the campaign of my current group after this one has been completed. Until that happens though, I'm stuck with this site and whatever awful things they decide to do with it.
Breaks promises on usability of old 2014 content to force sales of the 2024 stuff
Please do not spread disinformation.
Although all of the Legacy content is still there, the usability IS broken. There are sections of the character sheet and some items that only display the new rules... for instance, "Heroic Inspiration."
Altogether, it's good that most of it is still there, but the fact that you can't turn the new stuff OFF makes it really cluttered/confusing and require extra, unnecessary steps when you're running a game that was started in 5e.
D&D itself isn't even really the problem, since it obviously still exists in the same manner it always has, but it is the D&D Beyond website that just keeps losing functionality over time in the desperate race for incorporating all the new stuff. There are many things like the character sheet rework that still haven't happened... we still don't have a way to automatically apply healing from using Second Wind, or a Rage toggle, or the Bardic Inspiration dice. So we're already not getting things that have been talked about for a long time now, and in addition we are losing things like a la carte purchasing and the ability to only display legacy rules and content. Not to mention the requirement to contact support to get discounts on books you already own some content for.
It is fair to say that the direction for the site under WotC has not been great. About the only positive change I've seen is the incorporated VTT. When it works just fine and there are things that are still broken/nonfunctional in the character sheet itself this far into the site's lifespan, it's frustrating. I don't think it's the devs' fault or anything, it's all management. Regardless, it makes me want to discontinue use of the site BUT I'm not able to until my campaign is finished, just due to the logistics of switching for me at the moment.
Completely agree. A toggle button that allows me to switch between the rule sets should be a thing, instead of the current hot garbage of duplication hell.
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My current campaigns were running DnDNext. My new campaigns were going to run DnD 2024.
As of now, I have cancelled my sub, will not be buying any more content (digital or physical), and am in the process of converting the campaigns to alternative game systems (Starfinder and Pathfinder). The new campaigns I have planned will be using those systems as well.
99% of that is due to how poorly this rollout has been, and how it's clearly trying to push users to the new, pricier 'edition' of the content by making the content that we've already purchased harder to use.
Wizards:
Yeah I'm glad I managed to get local copies of all my stuff. May 2024 flop like 4E did.
There is a toggle in the character settings, allowing you to turn Legacy Content on and off.
Another that allows you to decide whether or not to use the expanded rules (Tasha's, et cetera, I assume).
There needs to be a similar toggle for the 2024 core rules.
Would be even better if a campaign could be toggled to allow/disallow 2024 rules, as well as individual characters, but that's not super necessary.
I would say a toggle for all 2024+ content, but books may come out in the future that people may want to purchase and use with 5e (not 5.24e) characters.
Please stop shoving the 2024 rules down our throats.
It only makes us less likely to continue with DDB, and certainly less likely to buy more content post 2024 to use with new campaigns, if we can't even filter out the core 2024 content from legacy characters/games.
Please do not spread disinformation. As one of the persons who staunchly advocated for the preservation of 2014 content on Beyond, Beyond has kept 2014 content in the character builder as accessible and usable as before. Barring bugs, anything I can do in the character builder before September 3, I can still do so right now.
Having a toggle for 2024 content would be nice, but I do not see that happening. 2024 content is the new default content, and just as 2014 used to be the default content, default content cannot be turned off on Beyond.
The game designers mentioned and credited Baldur's Gate 3 for inspiration in many of the preview videos for the new PHB.
Not relevant to the discussion, but Wizards owns the D&D IP, and Wizards can do whatever they want with their IP, including charging third parties for using Wizard's IP.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Yeah, you can still use 2014 rules as 2024 dont prevent it, but the user interface experience is so annoying that i will probably stop using DnDbeyond, which means stop buying books and so
And at this point its kinda obvious that annoy users to the point they rather change to 2024 rules was the goal.
I mean i never cared about alleged scandals like OGL or other BS, but at this point it would be fixed if it was just mistake or just overlooked factor
And i mentioned it before - DnD Beyond had chance to become immortal app if they manage to run two editions at same time. That would be proof of longevitx of the app and hope for others editions and setting to come
Only thing what i want from the app is to be able browse purchased content without constantly tripping on 2024 edition
I will not disagree that it is annoying. I mostly play D&D with my close friends, so not having a toggle is not a big deal. But if I were to GM for brand new players, I want to be able to toggle off both PHBs, so new players can just focus on the BR/SRD, and not get overwhelmed by a ton of options.
I am content with the way things are at the moment. The most important thing is that they preserve 2014 content as it was in the character builder. Bug fixes and making UI better can be done in time. Obviously, it would be nice if they can do things on time, but I am going to keep my expectations realistic.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
This is not disinformation. It is far from usable, even without bugs. Disabling the source books of 2024 via character sharing do not work, even if it would, the core rules are still there. You have to check thrice if you use the correct spell and depending on if the spell exists in two versions or not, you can not just simply check if its tagged as legacy. Wherever you have to chose something, the 2024 rules are omnipresent without any explanation and you have to scroll down, making mistakes happen all the time.
DNDBeyond is just annoying and your excuse of that being the default content may work for you, but not for me. Not to justify the subsription - and thats what we vote with what the default content is. I sincere hope (and believe it will) that 2024 flop, because then wotc is forced to act. BTW not just to get a better dndbeyond, but also because the new ruleset is pretty shit in my opinion.
That said, my patience is at its end anyway and I already purchased a different game where I prep my campaigns to move over to. I am done with wotc.
Its not just that. Im quite an active DM and i do some prep work almost every day / i watch quite a lot of DnD shows - so i really often looks for some details, spells and etc.
But listing/search in app is just so 'urgh' now because even if it have filters, it resets every time.
At first i was like 'im sorry, i just dont like 24 edition, mayabe in future i will gie it try'. Now i starts to hate it and regret money i spend on sources. I mean it changed the perspective of all the DnD paid content. That means the 'feel' and also the logic - without app, why should i even bother to purchase something?
And it all comes on top of that i feel like there is actually not much value of digital platform - at first i was in awe because it really helped in some aspects, now im going more and more back to pen and paper because most of DM features are now underdevelopt as it didnt move in months (years) so the only really usefull feature is character builder and difital sheet in app. Both now endangered by rules which i dont want to use
Also in some instance there is legacy content for content which is now also legacy and they are marked same
Making strictly 2014 characters is not that much more difficult. We were already scrolling for class, subclass, and species options before the new PHB options, and the increase in scrolling will happen regardless if the new core rules exist, because there will always be new rules/options that gets added over time. The spells in the character builder and character sheet literally tell you the source the spell is from.
The new PHBs are selling like hot cakes, so there is no chance of flopping anymore. Wizards will continue its current game design trend because that is what most people want.
As for D&D Beyond, I agree it is not the best digital tool set for experienced GMs and players, but it is the most accessible and convenient for new GMs and players out of the four official digital tools.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
You're really downplaying how bad it is.
I took have been afflicted with this issue! Bought the digital 2014 PHB thinking it would make my game easier and help with character creation for my nature cleric. And it did!
For about two months. Now it looks like I’ll have to switch back to manually creating my character as it seems to be mixing in 2024 class and subclass features. I’m only level 3 and it’s a pain to consider having to do it the full way through. So much for making it easier. I don’t see why they can’t have a toggle like they do to turn off or remove Rick and Morty rules why not allow to choose which PHB I to use.
It is frustrating. Especially with how ALL THE LINKS in the 2014 PHB and rules documents now go to the free 2024 rules, so if you click on "Stealth" or "Hide" while on the PHB in it will take you to the wrong rules.
@XXXGammaRay - Where are you getting the sales data? I'm not challenging you on this. I was actually wondering yesterday how I would go look that stuff up. I saw people in other threads claiming the sales were very slow compared to Tasha's, but I don't know if their data was good, so I thought I'd go try and see for myself.
This is exactly what hurt our session two weeks ago. I have new players and we were relying on DDB in-game. They'd click on a spell and would get the new link or a "Can't find what you're looking for? Check out the marketplace" (or whatever)
https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/57876/2024-players-handbook-becomes-fastest-selling-dungeons-dragons-product-ever
Quoting:
Wizards of the Coast announced that the 2024 Player's Handbook has become the fastest-selling Dungeons & Dragons product ever.
It passed Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything (see "'D&D Tasha's Cauldron of Everything'") to make it the biggest product launch in the game's 50-year history. To meet demand, WotC has printed three times the number of 2024 Player's Handbooks than the 2014 edition.
Totally agree with the OP, but it's not just character sheets. If you use the app to "Search everywhere" it's difficult to decern which ruleset you are looking at. I need a filter for just the "Legacy" content.
This is a deal breaker. My annual subscription is coming up in November, I've currently set it to not renew, and am contemplating alternate digital platforms. Until they can sort this mess out.
Update:
Actually just cancelled my subscription. Left feedback accordingly. Hopefully they will notice.
I would really miss all the people who got so fed up they left over the last couple of years.... if they actually left.
I think a problem for a lot of people, including myself, is that we are mid-campaign at the moment and don't want to switch to something right in the middle. I've been running a campaign since the OGL debacle and I've wanted to move to a different system very badly because everything since then has just gotten worse, but transitioning to a new system with players who are still brand new to TTRPG is just not going to happen. Not until we finish the campaign and I can work on the next one from scratch. I'm in talks with some friends right now to start a campaign in PF2e and may use Shadow of the Demon Lord for the campaign of my current group after this one has been completed. Until that happens though, I'm stuck with this site and whatever awful things they decide to do with it.
Although all of the Legacy content is still there, the usability IS broken. There are sections of the character sheet and some items that only display the new rules... for instance, "Heroic Inspiration."
Altogether, it's good that most of it is still there, but the fact that you can't turn the new stuff OFF makes it really cluttered/confusing and require extra, unnecessary steps when you're running a game that was started in 5e.
D&D itself isn't even really the problem, since it obviously still exists in the same manner it always has, but it is the D&D Beyond website that just keeps losing functionality over time in the desperate race for incorporating all the new stuff. There are many things like the character sheet rework that still haven't happened... we still don't have a way to automatically apply healing from using Second Wind, or a Rage toggle, or the Bardic Inspiration dice. So we're already not getting things that have been talked about for a long time now, and in addition we are losing things like a la carte purchasing and the ability to only display legacy rules and content. Not to mention the requirement to contact support to get discounts on books you already own some content for.
It is fair to say that the direction for the site under WotC has not been great. About the only positive change I've seen is the incorporated VTT. When it works just fine and there are things that are still broken/nonfunctional in the character sheet itself this far into the site's lifespan, it's frustrating. I don't think it's the devs' fault or anything, it's all management. Regardless, it makes me want to discontinue use of the site BUT I'm not able to until my campaign is finished, just due to the logistics of switching for me at the moment.
Just here to add my name to this list.
Completely agree. A toggle button that allows me to switch between the rule sets should be a thing, instead of the current hot garbage of duplication hell.