Asking for, and accepting, a refund is letting WotC off the hook for possible criminal activities. I won't be doing it. I own the original WGtE pdf from DM's Guild. I fully intent, if I continue to play 5E (which is in doubt atm due to my players wanting to go back to playing Pathfinder like we did after our disillusionment with 4E).
As lonmg as a single copy of the original WGtE pdf exists, there is proff of WotC's wrongdoings. Remeber, this is not playtest material. We paid for that material. Yes, they can put out new, updated versions, but they do not have the right to take away something that was paid for.
The current UA articleon Class Ability replacements and enchanments is a good example of this. They are freely admitting to short comings in the Beast Master ranger, and other classes, but have said time and time again they won;t go back and fix known issues. But with WGtE, they have forced exactly that on those of us who have bought (as in paid real money for) WGtE. WotC is in the wrong, and this refund offer, through DDB is an attempt to buy themselves out of possible legal actions.
I'm sick and it hurts to laugh (even a chuckle), so thanks for that.
WotC hasn't done anything illegal. Controversial, sure, but not illegal. Also, the refund is not being offered by WotC (they are keeping your money), it is being offered by DDB out of sympathy.
Unless your copy of WGtE does not contain the "living document" disclaimer, then it is not proof of any wrongdoings. You paid for a book that specifically says all mechanics it contains are subject to change based on playtest feedback. Frankly, if the book had not changed anything, you would not have gotten what you paid for. And they didn't "take away" anything. When a video game gets patched, do you complain that they took away the game you bought?
Comparing to the beast master is a bad example because the PHB was not a living document to which changes could be freely made. WGtE is (and as long as we are keeping track, ERftLW is not).
Comparing DnD to video games, or any other kind of game, is a bad example. We don't buy the game; we buy rulesets. And as anyone in print, we should have the right to keep the rulesets we pay for and opt out of "updates" we're not interested in.
Except one of the selling points of digital rules compendium is that it's always up to date with the latest version. If you don't want an automatically updated/errata'd set of rules, stick to physical. You don't play for a specific version of the rules, you pay for a license to access the latest version.
Except one of the selling points of digital rules compendium is that it's always up to date with the latest version. If you don't want an automatically updated/errata'd set of rules, stick to physical. You don't play for a specific version of the rules, you pay for a license to access the latest version.
That's not one of the selling points. The point of a digital rules compendium is not having to lug physical books and papers around, being able to manage campaigns online, having a digital character sheet with tooltips, etc. Having paid content change at the whims of WotC and DnDBeyond is not a feature.
I think most would be sympathetic in these cases. But most every knew the classes/crunch was play test and the fluff wasn’t going to change much. So it boils down to the changes to the classes don’t meet your liking but most people bought it knowing the classes would be tweaked. I’m not on social media much, just ENworld and here and I knew it. Sorry for,your frustration with the changes but I think other than this thread it’s a lost cause so I hope the venting helps as you have little leg or argument to stand on and not much other than asking for the refund. I again say if the original document with the classes you liked are the heart burn, create them as home brew like you would in hero labs. Your familiar with the process and since they are what you want, do some thing creative with it instead of this once the frustration subsides.
I’m turning the notification for this thread off since it just adds to my frustration level reading this. Hope everyone works it through, if not, have fun rolling dice and not spending time and energy complaining.
In 4E, using their online character builder, I built and player a character all the way to 10th level. Four times they forced changes on that character in the name of 'Play Balancing' and 3 times I had to rebuild that character so I could continue to play it in the concept I'd created. The 4th time, the changes they forced on that character made it unplayable without recreatign the character with a new concept.
That was the day I quit 4E altogether and went overto Pathfidner for the first time. The feelign I get with these 'FORCED' changes is the same and it looks like the results will be the same.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I would also like to point out, that those who did buy WGTE, you still have access to the source. It is right there with the rest of the sources. What has been removed, was the races/subraces and items from the other parts of beyond. I had an understanding that it was going to be removed from beyond when the new book was made when I purchased it. However, those characters who were created with the content from it still have access to, and can still be leveled up just fine, you just cannot create new characters, without homebrewing the old warforged etc, which beyond gives the tools to do fairly easily.
Remeber, this is not playtest material. We paid for that material. Yes, they can put out new, updated versions, but they do not have the right to take away something that was paid for.
You paid for a book that specifically says all mechanics it contains are subject to change based on playtest feedback. Frankly, if the book had not changed anything, you would not have gotten what you paid for. And they didn't "take away" anything. When a video game gets patched, do you complain that they took away the game you bought?
Comparing DnD to video games, or any other kind of game, is a bad example. We don't buy the game; we buy rulesets. And as anyone in print, we should have the right to keep the rulesets we pay for and opt out of "updates" we're not interested in.
D&D is a game, and that is exactly what happened. You bought an expansion that was advertised as early access content and was promised to be updated to the final version for free. Then that update happened and you complained that they deleted the content you paid for.
It wasn't deleted, it was updated. Before it was in free playtest (yes, all the races were and are in a free UA PDF), now you have the official version that isn't free for no additional charge. As always you can use homebrew tools to add back the old versions using the UA PDFs as reference.
In 4E, using their online character builder, I built and player a character all the way to 10th level. Four times they forced changes on that character in the name of 'Play Balancing' and 3 times I had to rebuild that character so I could continue to play it in the concept I'd created. The 4th time, the changes they forced on that character made it unplayable without recreatign the character with a new concept.
That was the day I quit 4E altogether and went overto Pathfidner for the first time. The feelign I get with these 'FORCED' changes is the same and it looks like the results will be the same.
You used the wrong quotation marks around "forced."
This will likely be the last time they try the "living document" experiment (given how many people didn't read any of the many disclaimers and got upset that their content was made official at no addition charge). Out of curiosity, have you considered quitting 5e when other playtest was changed or only the ones that came with a compendium?
Either way, there is nothing wrong with quitting d&d for pathfinder.
Remeber, this is not playtest material. We paid for that material. Yes, they can put out new, updated versions, but they do not have the right to take away something that was paid for.
You paid for a book that specifically says all mechanics it contains are subject to change based on playtest feedback. Frankly, if the book had not changed anything, you would not have gotten what you paid for. And they didn't "take away" anything. When a video game gets patched, do you complain that they took away the game you bought?
Comparing DnD to video games, or any other kind of game, is a bad example. We don't buy the game; we buy rulesets. And as anyone in print, we should have the right to keep the rulesets we pay for and opt out of "updates" we're not interested in.
D&D is a game, and that is exactly what happened. You bought an expansion that was advertised as early access content and was promised to be updated to the final version for free. Then that update happened and you complained that they deleted the content you paid for.
It wasn't deleted, it was updated. Before it was in free playtest (yes, all the races were and are in a free UA PDF), now you have the official version that isn't free for no additional charge. As always you can use homebrew tools to add back the old versions using the UA PDFs as reference.
They did delete the content I paid for. That's why I got a refund.
This discussion is over. You can keep rationalizing all you like, but the facts were in my favor. "Early access" is a lie. "Updates" is a lie. DnD doesn't have "expansions". It works exactly how I told you, and creating a disparity between digital and print is only going to cost them business.
Just a reminder, but D&D Beyond can do basically anything HeroLab can do. You can *absolutely* use the old Warforged races - just use a 'Homebrewed' remake.
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Comparing DnD to video games, or any other kind of game, is a bad example. We don't buy the game; we buy rulesets. And as anyone in print, we should have the right to keep the rulesets we pay for and opt out of "updates" we're not interested in.
Except one of the selling points of digital rules compendium is that it's always up to date with the latest version. If you don't want an automatically updated/errata'd set of rules, stick to physical. You don't play for a specific version of the rules, you pay for a license to access the latest version.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
That's not one of the selling points. The point of a digital rules compendium is not having to lug physical books and papers around, being able to manage campaigns online, having a digital character sheet with tooltips, etc. Having paid content change at the whims of WotC and DnDBeyond is not a feature.
I think most would be sympathetic in these cases. But most every knew the classes/crunch was play test and the fluff wasn’t going to change much. So it boils down to the changes to the classes don’t meet your liking but most people bought it knowing the classes would be tweaked. I’m not on social media much, just ENworld and here and I knew it. Sorry for,your frustration with the changes but I think other than this thread it’s a lost cause so I hope the venting helps as you have little leg or argument to stand on and not much other than asking for the refund. I again say if the original document with the classes you liked are the heart burn, create them as home brew like you would in hero labs. Your familiar with the process and since they are what you want, do some thing creative with it instead of this once the frustration subsides.
I’m turning the notification for this thread off since it just adds to my frustration level reading this. Hope everyone works it through, if not, have fun rolling dice and not spending time and energy complaining.
In 4E, using their online character builder, I built and player a character all the way to 10th level. Four times they forced changes on that character in the name of 'Play Balancing' and 3 times I had to rebuild that character so I could continue to play it in the concept I'd created. The 4th time, the changes they forced on that character made it unplayable without recreatign the character with a new concept.
That was the day I quit 4E altogether and went overto Pathfidner for the first time. The feelign I get with these 'FORCED' changes is the same and it looks like the results will be the same.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I would also like to point out, that those who did buy WGTE, you still have access to the source. It is right there with the rest of the sources. What has been removed, was the races/subraces and items from the other parts of beyond. I had an understanding that it was going to be removed from beyond when the new book was made when I purchased it. However, those characters who were created with the content from it still have access to, and can still be leveled up just fine, you just cannot create new characters, without homebrewing the old warforged etc, which beyond gives the tools to do fairly easily.
D&D is a game, and that is exactly what happened. You bought an expansion that was advertised as early access content and was promised to be updated to the final version for free. Then that update happened and you complained that they deleted the content you paid for.
It wasn't deleted, it was updated. Before it was in free playtest (yes, all the races were and are in a free UA PDF), now you have the official version that isn't free for no additional charge. As always you can use homebrew tools to add back the old versions using the UA PDFs as reference.
You used the wrong quotation marks around "forced."
This will likely be the last time they try the "living document" experiment (given how many people didn't read any of the many disclaimers and got upset that their content was made official at no addition charge). Out of curiosity, have you considered quitting 5e when other playtest was changed or only the ones that came with a compendium?
Either way, there is nothing wrong with quitting d&d for pathfinder.
They did delete the content I paid for. That's why I got a refund.
This discussion is over. You can keep rationalizing all you like, but the facts were in my favor. "Early access" is a lie. "Updates" is a lie. DnD doesn't have "expansions". It works exactly how I told you, and creating a disparity between digital and print is only going to cost them business.
Just a reminder, but D&D Beyond can do basically anything HeroLab can do. You can *absolutely* use the old Warforged races - just use a 'Homebrewed' remake.