I am one of those who used to regularly contribute to the 5E Community Pack until my minor stroke back in 2016. I still add my own material regularly for my own campaigns. The Advantage of using HL is that WotC cannot force changes onto me like they have done vis DDB. If I don't like something, I simply don't have to waste my precious time implementing it.
WOTC changes their playtest content across the board - everywhere. It's unfortunate that you don't approve of their balancing, but via playtesting, this has been their choice. One could easily create the older versions via homebrew and enjoy playing as they have been.
If you're speaking of homebrew content - changes are not forced upon this. You can have whatever sort of homebrew you want and it remains untouched by anyone. I'm not following the argument being made here.
That is an inaccurate and post-facto warning. When the content was placed on the Marketplace, that warning did not exist. When the content was released, both Mike Mearls and the content author confirmed it as official content. Even if none of that is true, it still doesn't justify deleting content under the guise of "updates". Players paid to use THAT content. That's a bait and switch.
Where did Mearls and the content author say that the initial mechanics in Wayfinder’s was “official content”? Every early communication from Mearls and from the DMsGuild offering of Wayfinders that I know about included the information that it was a living document and that the mechanical aspects were playtest and would updated before it was considered “final.” In fact there was a whole discussion about print-on-demand for DMsGuild in that regard. Mearls said they wouldn’t turn on print on demand for Wayfinders until everything there was in its final form.
There's a tweet where Mearls says it's official Eberron content, ie it's canon Eberron material. But people seem to be confusing that as to mean it's official D&D content.
This is 100% official content for Eberron. Since it is an ebook, that also means we can update content with comments based on UA playtests of the races and the artificer. If we do an Eberron print product, we will design it to complement as much as possible what the PDF presents.
It's important that people note it says "official content for Eberron" which isn't the same as being official D&D content.
Eberron is not a game; DnD is the game. Official content for Eberron is official content for DnD.
Here's another source that doesn't include that ambiguity:
I am one of those who used to regularly contribute to the 5E Community Pack until my minor stroke back in 2016. I still add my own material regularly for my own campaigns. The Advantage of using HL is that WotC cannot force changes onto me like they have done vis DDB. If I don't like something, I simply don't have to waste my precious time implementing it.
WOTC changes their playtest content across the board - everywhere. It's unfortunate that you don't approve of their balancing, but via playtesting, this has been their choice. One could easily create the older versions via homebrew and enjoy playing as they have been.
If you're speaking of homebrew content - changes are not forced upon this. You can have whatever sort of homebrew you want and it remains untouched by anyone. I'm not following the argument being made here.
This was official, sold content; not playtest material.
That is an inaccurate and post-facto warning. When the content was placed on the Marketplace, that warning did not exist. When the content was released, both Mike Mearls and the content author confirmed it as official content. Even if none of that is true, it still doesn't justify deleting content under the guise of "updates". Players paid to use THAT content. That's a bait and switch.
Where did Mearls and the content author say that the initial mechanics in Wayfinder’s was “official content”? Every early communication from Mearls and from the DMsGuild offering of Wayfinders that I know about included the information that it was a living document and that the mechanical aspects were playtest and would updated before it was considered “final.” In fact there was a whole discussion about print-on-demand for DMsGuild in that regard. Mearls said they wouldn’t turn on print on demand for Wayfinders until everything there was in its final form.
It has been official content since release. "Updates" were promised to complement, not replace.
Both of those quotes talk about the content being UA/playtest content. The Keith Baker piece specifically says:
The WGtE is a living document. If these mechanics change, it will be updated both in D&D Beyond and on the DM’s Guild, so you won’t have to buy a revised version of this content.
If your concern is that you don't currently have access to the updated races, etc., because the transition here has been problematic, I'm sorry that's been the case for you. I'm confident that is not the intent and if that is the issue it will be resolved in a few days. It's been hard for me to tell whether you are upset that the UA/playtest mechanics have been changed to the final product version, or if it is that you do not currently access to the Eberron mechanics at all and believe that will be permanent.
That is an inaccurate and post-facto warning. When the content was placed on the Marketplace, that warning did not exist. When the content was released, both Mike Mearls and the content author confirmed it as official content. Even if none of that is true, it still doesn't justify deleting content under the guise of "updates". Players paid to use THAT content. That's a bait and switch.
Where did Mearls and the content author say that the initial mechanics in Wayfinder’s was “official content”? Every early communication from Mearls and from the DMsGuild offering of Wayfinders that I know about included the information that it was a living document and that the mechanical aspects were playtest and would updated before it was considered “final.” In fact there was a whole discussion about print-on-demand for DMsGuild in that regard. Mearls said they wouldn’t turn on print on demand for Wayfinders until everything there was in its final form.
It has been official content since release. "Updates" were promised to complement, not replace.
Both of those quotes talk about the content being UA/playtest content. The Keith Baker piece specifically says:
The WGtE is a living document. If these mechanics change, it will be updated both in D&D Beyond and on the DM’s Guild, so you won’t have to buy a revised version of this content.
If your concern is that you don't currently have access to the updated races, etc., because the transition here has been problematic, I'm sorry that's been the case for you. I'm confident that is not the intent and if that is the issue it will be resolved in a few days. It's been hard for me to tell whether you are upset that the UA/playtest mechanics have been changed to the final product version, or if it is that you do not currently access to the Eberron mechanics at all and believe that will be permanent.
Nope. I'll quote what they specifically say:
"This is 100% official content for Eberron. Since it is an ebook, that also means we can update content with comments based on UA playtests of the races and the artificer. If we do an Eberron print product, we will design it to complement as much as possible what the PDF presents."
--Mike Mearls
100% Official content, new book will complement, not replace.
"Some things, like the artificer, races, and basic world info, will be picked up for a print book, but we want fans to be happy owning both."
--Mike Mearls
Again, new book complements, not replaces. If fans are supposed to be "happy owning both", they can't just be identical books.
Keith Baker:
"The WGtE is a 176 page book. It explores the general themes of the setting, with a tighter focus on Khorvaire and Sharn. This includes character ideas, story hooks, and optional rules that help capture the flavor of the setting. This is my take on Eberron, but is being considered official content."
Again, official content.
Again, saying something is "a living document" does not reasonably mean it will be deleted and repaced by the next book.
Content that was paid for has been deleted.
Notes: Reminder that it is expected that every member of our community treats everyone else with courtesy and respect.
Just to clarify, you're attempting to argue the publisher, WOTC, on what content they decide is official? It looks as if they decided that the source book is being considered official content and specific content that was not, was removed from it. The source book - still official content - remains in existence.
What is your anticipated end-game through all of this? Just curious.
WotC stole what I paid for in concerns with WGtE. It was paid for content and thus it should remain as it was, the exception being the addition of the Artificer which was promised when the WGtE was purchased. Instead they stole more than 1/2 the original material and gave us a half-assed Artificer, the Alchemist, which they butchered big time.
Fortunately, as I have said before. I still have my pdf which they can't touch.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Just to clarify, you're attempting to argue the publisher, WOTC, on what content they decide is official? It looks as if they decided that the source book is being considered official content and specific content that was not, was removed from it. The source book - still official content - remains in existence.
What is your anticipated end-game through all of this? Just curious.
No, I am arguing with the service provider, whose service I paid for, who removed my ability to utilize said service.
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
I just cancelled my Subscription and went back to a Basic account. With these changes, forced upon us by WotC, DnDBeyond no longer meets my needs for my campaigns. Thus I no longer need access to more than 6 characters or the once valued Campaigns features.
I'll be going back to Hero Lab which has far greater homebrew capabilities, and can not be forcibluy changed by an outside source like WotC.
I am currently disappointed because the new sourcebook Eberron: Rising from the Last War has changed the Warforged race. You can no longer pick a subrace and because that is now the case i have lost a valuable asset to my character because they were a variant Warforged, Skirimisher i believe it was. The racial variant feats were very helpful and i hope that you would consider adding them back in.
"This is 100% official content for Eberron. Since it is an ebook, that also means we can update content with comments based on UA playtests of the races and the artificer. If we do an Eberron print product, we will design it to complement as much as possible what the PDF presents."
--Mike Mearls
100% Official content, new book will complement, not replace.
"Some things, like the artificer, races, and basic world info, will be picked up for a print book, but we want fans to be happy owning both."
--Mike Mearls
Again, new book complements, not replaces. If fans are supposed to be "happy owning both", they can't just be identical books.
Keith Baker:
"The WGtE is a 176 page book. It explores the general themes of the setting, with a tighter focus on Khorvaire and Sharn. This includes character ideas, story hooks, and optional rules that help capture the flavor of the setting. This is my take on Eberron, but is being considered official content."
Again, official content.
Again, saying something is "a living document" does not reasonably mean it will be deleted and repaced by the next book.
Content that was paid for has been deleted.
You are grossly misinterpreting these quotes. "Living Document" very specifically does mean that the content will be changed and updated with the new, final versions once those are decided upon. As far as "complement, not replace", the bulk of the Wayfinders book is additional Eberron content that is not duplicated in Lost War. That is what is complementary. The mechanics were playtest and intended to change.
Ultimately, this is WotCs decision, not that of DDB. This is still the "official" digital source so the published rules need to be accurate. if people want to use old, outdated UA, playtest, or third party content, you'll need to homebrew it. End of story, and out of Beyond's hands. Take your beef to WotC.
"This is 100% official content for Eberron. Since it is an ebook, that also means we can update content with comments based on UA playtests of the races and the artificer. If we do an Eberron print product, we will design it to complement as much as possible what the PDF presents."
--Mike Mearls
100% Official content, new book will complement, not replace.
"Some things, like the artificer, races, and basic world info, will be picked up for a print book, but we want fans to be happy owning both."
--Mike Mearls
Again, new book complements, not replaces. If fans are supposed to be "happy owning both", they can't just be identical books.
Keith Baker:
"The WGtE is a 176 page book. It explores the general themes of the setting, with a tighter focus on Khorvaire and Sharn. This includes character ideas, story hooks, and optional rules that help capture the flavor of the setting. This is my take on Eberron, but is being considered official content."
Again, official content.
Again, saying something is "a living document" does not reasonably mean it will be deleted and repaced by the next book.
Content that was paid for has been deleted.
You are grossly misinterpreting these quotes. "Living Document" very specifically does mean that the content will be changed and updated with the new, final versions once those are decided upon. As far as "complement, not replace", the bulk of the Wayfinders book is additional Eberron content that is not duplicated in Lost War. That is what is complementary. The mechanics were playtest and intended to change.
Ultimately, this is WotCs decision, not that of DDB. This is still the "official" digital source so the published rules need to be accurate. if people want to use old, outdated UA, playtest, or third party content, you'll need to homebrew it. End of story, and out of Beyond's hands. Take your beef to WotC.
The WGtE was release on DM's Guild before it came to DDB. It was release as a pdf which WotC has never provided for any of their books. As a pdf, and not something WotC has ever provided before, and something that was not Playtest material and was sanction for Eberron based AL campaigns, WotC is definitely in the wrong, IMO.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Asking for, and accepting, a refund is letting WotC off the hook for possible criminal activities. I won't be doing it. I own the original WGtE pdf from DM's Guild. I fully intent, if I continue to play 5E (which is in doubt atm due to my players wanting to go back to playing Pathfinder like we did after our disillusionment with 4E).
As lonmg as a single copy of the original WGtE pdf exists, there is proff of WotC's wrongdoings. Remeber, this is not playtest material. We paid for that material. Yes, they can put out new, updated versions, but they do not have the right to take away something that was paid for.
The current UA articleon Class Ability replacements and enchanments is a good example of this. They are freely admitting to short comings in the Beast Master ranger, and other classes, but have said time and time again they won;t go back and fix known issues. But with WGtE, they have forced exactly that on those of us who have bought (as in paid real money for) WGtE. WotC is in the wrong, and this refund offer, through DDB is an attempt to buy themselves out of possible legal actions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
WotC stole what I paid for in concerns with WGtE. It was paid for content and thus it should remain as it was, the exception being the addition of the Artificer which was promised when the WGtE was purchased. Instead they stole more than 1/2 the original material and gave us a half-assed Artificer, the Alchemist, which they butchered big time.
Fortunately, as I have said before. I still have my pdf which they can't touch.
You'll note, of course, that on DMsGuild, they did exactly that and updated the PDF there too. The mechanics, which were playtest material, have been updated to the final, official version so you don't need to repurchase that.
Asking for, and accepting, a refund is letting WotC off the hook for possible criminal activities. I won't be doing it. I own the original WGtE pdf from DM's Guild. I fully intent, if I continue to play 5E (which is in doubt atm due to my players wanting to go back to playing Pathfinder like we did after our disillusionment with 4E).
As lonmg as a single copy of the original WGtE pdf exists, there is proff of WotC's wrongdoings. Remeber, this is not playtest material. We paid for that material. Yes, they can put out new, updated versions, but they do not have the right to take away something that was paid for.
The current UA articleon Class Ability replacements and enchanments is a good example of this. They are freely admitting to short comings in the Beast Master ranger, and other classes, but have said time and time again they won;t go back and fix known issues. But with WGtE, they have forced exactly that on those of us who have bought (as in paid real money for) WGtE. WotC is in the wrong, and this refund offer, through DDB is an attempt to buy themselves out of possible legal actions.
Just...wow. Good luck proving all that, friend. Keep fighting the good fight.
And Keith Baker is putting out another Eberron pdf, announced today. Hopefully it’s not a reprint of much of wayfarers...or pitch him the....keep the stuff from wayfarers stuff — and see if he can add it since it’s his pdf this time. Probably not but still worth a shot to cool things off a bit.
looks like not much is the answer so plenty of new Eberron content in the new pdf Keith is releasing on the DMs guild.
Asking for, and accepting, a refund is letting WotC off the hook for possible criminal activities. I won't be doing it. I own the original WGtE pdf from DM's Guild. I fully intent, if I continue to play 5E (which is in doubt atm due to my players wanting to go back to playing Pathfinder like we did after our disillusionment with 4E).
As lonmg as a single copy of the original WGtE pdf exists, there is proff of WotC's wrongdoings. Remeber, this is not playtest material. We paid for that material. Yes, they can put out new, updated versions, but they do not have the right to take away something that was paid for.
The current UA articleon Class Ability replacements and enchanments is a good example of this. They are freely admitting to short comings in the Beast Master ranger, and other classes, but have said time and time again they won;t go back and fix known issues. But with WGtE, they have forced exactly that on those of us who have bought (as in paid real money for) WGtE. WotC is in the wrong, and this refund offer, through DDB is an attempt to buy themselves out of possible legal actions.
I'm sick and it hurts to laugh (even a chuckle), so thanks for that.
WotC hasn't done anything illegal. Controversial, sure, but not illegal. Also, the refund is not being offered by WotC (they are keeping your money), it is being offered by DDB out of sympathy.
Unless your copy of WGtE does not contain the "living document" disclaimer, then it is not proof of any wrongdoings. You paid for a book that specifically says all mechanics it contains are subject to change based on playtest feedback. Frankly, if the book had not changed anything, you would not have gotten what you paid for. And they didn't "take away" anything. When a video game gets patched, do you complain that they took away the game you bought?
Comparing to the beast master is a bad example because the PHB was not a living document to which changes could be freely made. WGtE is (and as long as we are keeping track, ERftLW is not).
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WOTC changes their playtest content across the board - everywhere. It's unfortunate that you don't approve of their balancing, but via playtesting, this has been their choice. One could easily create the older versions via homebrew and enjoy playing as they have been.
If you're speaking of homebrew content - changes are not forced upon this. You can have whatever sort of homebrew you want and it remains untouched by anyone. I'm not following the argument being made here.
Right here: https://mobile.twitter.com/mikemearls/status/1021495845223636994
And Keith Baker said so here:
http://keith-baker.com/wgte-faq/
It has been official content since release. "Updates" were promised to complement, not replace.
Eberron is not a game; DnD is the game. Official content for Eberron is official content for DnD.
Here's another source that doesn't include that ambiguity:
http://keith-baker.com/wgte-faq/
This was official, sold content; not playtest material.
Both of those quotes talk about the content being UA/playtest content. The Keith Baker piece specifically says:
If your concern is that you don't currently have access to the updated races, etc., because the transition here has been problematic, I'm sorry that's been the case for you. I'm confident that is not the intent and if that is the issue it will be resolved in a few days. It's been hard for me to tell whether you are upset that the UA/playtest mechanics have been changed to the final product version, or if it is that you do not currently access to the Eberron mechanics at all and believe that will be permanent.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
Nope. I'll quote what they specifically say:
"This is 100% official content for Eberron. Since it is an ebook, that also means we can update content with comments based on UA playtests of the races and the artificer. If we do an Eberron print product, we will design it to complement as much as possible what the PDF presents."
--Mike Mearls
100% Official content, new book will complement, not replace.
"Some things, like the artificer, races, and basic world info, will be picked up for a print book, but we want fans to be happy owning both."
--Mike Mearls
Again, new book complements, not replaces. If fans are supposed to be "happy owning both", they can't just be identical books.
Keith Baker:
"The WGtE is a 176 page book. It explores the general themes of the setting, with a tighter focus on Khorvaire and Sharn. This includes character ideas, story hooks, and optional rules that help capture the flavor of the setting. This is my take on Eberron, but is being considered official content."
Again, official content.
Again, saying something is "a living document" does not reasonably mean it will be deleted and repaced by the next book.
Content that was paid for has been deleted.
Just to clarify, you're attempting to argue the publisher, WOTC, on what content they decide is official? It looks as if they decided that the source book is being considered official content and specific content that was not, was removed from it. The source book - still official content - remains in existence.
What is your anticipated end-game through all of this? Just curious.
WotC stole what I paid for in concerns with WGtE. It was paid for content and thus it should remain as it was, the exception being the addition of the Artificer which was promised when the WGtE was purchased. Instead they stole more than 1/2 the original material and gave us a half-assed Artificer, the Alchemist, which they butchered big time.
Fortunately, as I have said before. I still have my pdf which they can't touch.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
No, I am arguing with the service provider, whose service I paid for, who removed my ability to utilize said service.
Just wanted to make sure you were all aware of this message from BadEye:
https://twitter.com/BadEyeAdam/status/1196550341212422146
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ
You are grossly misinterpreting these quotes. "Living Document" very specifically does mean that the content will be changed and updated with the new, final versions once those are decided upon. As far as "complement, not replace", the bulk of the Wayfinders book is additional Eberron content that is not duplicated in Lost War. That is what is complementary. The mechanics were playtest and intended to change.
Ultimately, this is WotCs decision, not that of DDB. This is still the "official" digital source so the published rules need to be accurate. if people want to use old, outdated UA, playtest, or third party content, you'll need to homebrew it. End of story, and out of Beyond's hands. Take your beef to WotC.
I disagree with As far as "complement, not replace", the bulk of the Wayfinders book is additional Eberron content that is not duplicated in Lost War.
Most of Wayfinders (not just mechanics) is reproduced in Last War.
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ
If your bummed, ask for a refund.
The WGtE was release on DM's Guild before it came to DDB. It was release as a pdf which WotC has never provided for any of their books. As a pdf, and not something WotC has ever provided before, and something that was not Playtest material and was sanction for Eberron based AL campaigns, WotC is definitely in the wrong, IMO.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Asking for, and accepting, a refund is letting WotC off the hook for possible criminal activities. I won't be doing it. I own the original WGtE pdf from DM's Guild. I fully intent, if I continue to play 5E (which is in doubt atm due to my players wanting to go back to playing Pathfinder like we did after our disillusionment with 4E).
As lonmg as a single copy of the original WGtE pdf exists, there is proff of WotC's wrongdoings. Remeber, this is not playtest material. We paid for that material. Yes, they can put out new, updated versions, but they do not have the right to take away something that was paid for.
The current UA articleon Class Ability replacements and enchanments is a good example of this. They are freely admitting to short comings in the Beast Master ranger, and other classes, but have said time and time again they won;t go back and fix known issues. But with WGtE, they have forced exactly that on those of us who have bought (as in paid real money for) WGtE. WotC is in the wrong, and this refund offer, through DDB is an attempt to buy themselves out of possible legal actions.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
You'll note, of course, that on DMsGuild, they did exactly that and updated the PDF there too. The mechanics, which were playtest material, have been updated to the final, official version so you don't need to repurchase that.
To be honest, I haven't dug into the books yet, so I'll grant you may well be correct there.
Just...wow. Good luck proving all that, friend. Keep fighting the good fight.
And Keith Baker is putting out another Eberron pdf, announced today. Hopefully it’s not a reprint of much of wayfarers...or pitch him the....keep the stuff from wayfarers stuff — and see if he can add it since it’s his pdf this time. Probably not but still worth a shot to cool things off a bit.
looks like not much is the answer so plenty of new Eberron content in the new pdf Keith is releasing on the DMs guild.
I'm sick and it hurts to laugh (even a chuckle), so thanks for that.
WotC hasn't done anything illegal. Controversial, sure, but not illegal. Also, the refund is not being offered by WotC (they are keeping your money), it is being offered by DDB out of sympathy.
Unless your copy of WGtE does not contain the "living document" disclaimer, then it is not proof of any wrongdoings. You paid for a book that specifically says all mechanics it contains are subject to change based on playtest feedback. Frankly, if the book had not changed anything, you would not have gotten what you paid for. And they didn't "take away" anything. When a video game gets patched, do you complain that they took away the game you bought?
Comparing to the beast master is a bad example because the PHB was not a living document to which changes could be freely made. WGtE is (and as long as we are keeping track, ERftLW is not).