The only thing that I would add and then I will shut up to keep the thread on point is, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the spell. It only heals 1 point, or 10 if you eat them all. Which is mainly an out of combat action. And that is not overpowered in my opinion.
The problem lies with the life cleric feature. If it added the bonus to each die rolled for healing, or to one die rolled (kind of like how an artificer artillerist Arcane Firearm adds damage) the problem would be gone, as far as Goodberry is concerned. Yet a lot of people just argue Goodberry is OP and not the feature that is causing the problem.
I agree, my interpretation of the spell in PHB it is casting the goodberry spell does not restore hit points to a creature (it creates goodberries) and thereofore disciple of life should not apply but JC said otherwise and it made it into SAC to make goodberry and life cleric broken RAW (though with Tasha's Twilight Clerics ar eable ot surpass even life clerics with goodberry in keeping the adventuring life from being dangerous).
The only thing that I would add and then I will shut up to keep the thread on point is, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the spell. It only heals 1 point, or 10 if you eat them all. Which is mainly an out of combat action. And that is not overpowered in my opinion.
The problem lies with the life cleric feature. If it added the bonus to each die rolled for healing, or to one die rolled (kind of like how an artificer artillerist Arcane Firearm adds damage) the problem would be gone, as far as Goodberry is concerned. Yet a lot of people just argue Goodberry is OP and not the feature that is causing the problem.
Agreed. There is no problem with either the spell or the feature, just that the spell shouldn't interact with the feature. As Jegpeg noted above, the spell doesn't heal, it creates berries. But Crawford disagrees, so we have the official RAI. It is what it is. I just disagree with him on this one.
Can you use dispel magic on the creations of a spell like animate dead or affect those creations with antimagic field?
Whenever you wonder whether a spell’s effects can be dispelled or suspended, you need to answer one question: is the spell’s duration instantaneous? If the answer is yes, there is nothing to dispel or suspend. Here’s why: the effects of an instantaneous spell are brought into being by magic, but the effects aren’t sustained by magic. The magic flares for a split second and then vanishes. For example, the instantaneous spell animate dead harnesses magical energy to turn a corpse or a pile of bones into an undead creature. That necromantic magic is present for an instant and is then gone. The resulting undead now exists without the magic’s help. Casting dispel magic on the creature can’t end its mockery of life, and the undead can wander into an antimagic field with no adverse effect.
Another example: cure wounds instantaneously restores hit points to a creature. Because the spell’s duration is instantaneous, the restoration can’t be later dispelled. And you don’t suddenly lose hit points if you step into an antimagic field !
I found this gem while browsing the forums about similar questions, and it BENDS my brains like a hecking pretzel that THIS is what we get as Sage Advice. I have highlighted the relevant parts; just read it and replace animate dead with goodberry.
So according to this, when you cast goodberry its a spell and can be counterspelled. However AFTER you cast it the magic is gone and you are left with a handfull of berries THAT ARE NOT MAGICAL. They can't be dispelled and they work in an antimagic field .
Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.
But SOMEHOW these same goodberries will benefit from Disciple of Life in that same antimagic field?!? They STILL count as a spell for THAT feature?!?
Can you use dispel magic on the creations of a spell like animate dead or affect those creations with antimagic field?
Whenever you wonder whether a spell’s effects can be dispelled or suspended, you need to answer one question: is the spell’s duration instantaneous? If the answer is yes, there is nothing to dispel or suspend. Here’s why: the effects of an instantaneous spell are brought into being by magic, but the effects aren’t sustained by magic. The magic flares for a split second and then vanishes. For example, the instantaneous spell animate dead harnesses magical energy to turn a corpse or a pile of bones into an undead creature. That necromantic magic is present for an instant and is then gone. The resulting undead now exists without the magic’s help. Casting dispel magic on the creature can’t end its mockery of life, and the undead can wander into an antimagic field with no adverse effect.
Another example: cure wounds instantaneously restores hit points to a creature. Because the spell’s duration is instantaneous, the restoration can’t be later dispelled. And you don’t suddenly lose hit points if you step into an antimagic field !
I found this gem while browsing the forums about similar questions, and it BENDS my brains like a hecking pretzel that THIS is what we get as Sage Advice. I have highlighted the relevant parts; just read it and replace animate dead with goodberry.
So according to this, when you cast goodberry its a spell and can be counterspelled. However AFTER you cast it the magic is gone and you are left with a handfull of berries THAT ARE NOT MAGICAL. They can't be dispelled and they work in an antimagic field .
Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.
But SOMEHOW these same goodberries will benefit from Disciple of Life in that same antimagic field?!? They STILL count as a spell for THAT feature?!?
The improbable part is DoL applying to the creation of the berries. Everything after that makes sense. You cast the spell and you get berries; you don't really heal someone, but you get non-magical berries that heal. That's plausible, but "creating berries" shouldn't logically trigger DoL. If you cast while in an antimagic field, no berries; makes sense. If you take non-magical berries into a magical field, they are unaffected; still makes sense. The only thing that doesn't make sense is DoL getting triggered way back when you created berries.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
So according to this, when you cast goodberry its a spell and can be counterspelled. However AFTER you cast it the magic is gone and you are left with a handfull of berries THAT ARE NOT MAGICAL. They can't be dispelled and they work in an antimagic field .
But SOMEHOW these same goodberries will benefit from Disciple of Life in that same antimagic field?!? They STILL count as a spell for THAT feature?!?
Yeah, that bugs me. A healing potion is inefective inside an anti-magic zone, so the same should apply to a goodberry. The spell even says "infused with magic for the duration." In my games, I made a simple change - the duration of goodberry is now 24 hours, not instantaneous.
Also, unconcious characters can't eat, so goodberry can't be used to revive someone.
My issue about goodberry is characters casting it the night before. In a game I played in, a druid regularly spent every single unspent spell slot on goodberry before bed. Usually the druid was carrying 40-60 goodberries, sometimes more. If the druid were instead a life cleric, that is potentially 160-200 HP (more if higher slots are used) of between-encounter healing. I know the game has this idea that parties should heal up between fights, but that's a little ridiculous.
That said, I haven't seen it in play at a table, so I don't know if it actually is an issue.
So according to this, when you cast goodberry its a spell and can be counterspelled. However AFTER you cast it the magic is gone and you are left with a handfull of berries THAT ARE NOT MAGICAL. They can't be dispelled and they work in an antimagic field .
But SOMEHOW these same goodberries will benefit from Disciple of Life in that same antimagic field?!? They STILL count as a spell for THAT feature?!?
Yeah, that bugs me. A healing potion is inefective inside an anti-magic zone, so the same should apply to a goodberry. The spell even says "infused with magic for the duration." In my games, I made a simple change - the duration of goodberry is now 24 hours, not instantaneous.
Also, unconcious characters can't eat, so goodberry can't be used to revive someone.
My issue about goodberry is characters casting it the night before. In a game I played in, a druid regularly spent every single unspent spell slot on goodberry before bed. Usually the druid was carrying 40-60 goodberries, sometimes more. If the druid were instead a life cleric, that is potentially 160-200 HP (more if higher slots are used) of between-encounter healing. I know the game has this idea that parties should heal up between fights, but that's a little ridiculous.
That said, I haven't seen it in play at a table, so I don't know if it actually is an issue.
Nether have I ..I think most people don't think about the broken HP regain builds as much as the damage ones.
Also out of combat healing tends to be less of a big deal in most games with hit dice, spells, potions... So much available to heal up between fights and not many parties end up with more then 3 fights per day.
Animate Dead and Goodberry have instantenous duration. Dispel Magic affect spell's effect with lasting duration only. It make sense to me that neither can be dispelled.
So according to this, when you cast goodberry its a spell and can be counterspelled. However AFTER you cast it the magic is gone and you are left with a handfull of berries THAT ARE NOT MAGICAL. They can't be dispelled and they work in an antimagic field .
But SOMEHOW these same goodberries will benefit from Disciple of Life in that same antimagic field?!? They STILL count as a spell for THAT feature?!?
Yeah, that bugs me. A healing potion is inefective inside an anti-magic zone, so the same should apply to a goodberry. The spell even says "infused with magic for the duration." In my games, I made a simple change - the duration of goodberry is now 24 hours, not instantaneous.
Also, unconcious characters can't eat, so goodberry can't be used to revive someone.
My issue about goodberry is characters casting it the night before. In a game I played in, a druid regularly spent every single unspent spell slot on goodberry before bed. Usually the druid was carrying 40-60 goodberries, sometimes more. If the druid were instead a life cleric, that is potentially 160-200 HP (more if higher slots are used) of between-encounter healing. I know the game has this idea that parties should heal up between fights, but that's a little ridiculous.
That said, I haven't seen it in play at a table, so I don't know if it actually is an issue.
I do this quite regularly with my 12th level Druid. I typically keep about 40 Goodberries on hand. I don’t do more than that. And it has never been an issue. For one thing, I’m old and forget that I have them so tend not to hand them out. Secondly, we usually don’t heal between fights if we are not in bad shape.
Actually, I think the time I used most of them was when rescued a large group of people who were in need of food and healing. I use them occasionally, but with it being out of combat it’s not a big deal.
I agree, my interpretation of the spell in PHB it is casting the goodberry spell does not restore hit points to a creature (it creates goodberries) and thereofore disciple of life should not apply but JC said otherwise and it made it into SAC to make goodberry and life cleric broken RAW (though with Tasha's Twilight Clerics ar eable ot surpass even life clerics with goodberry in keeping the adventuring life from being dangerous).
Agreed. There is no problem with either the spell or the feature, just that the spell shouldn't interact with the feature. As Jegpeg noted above, the spell doesn't heal, it creates berries. But Crawford disagrees, so we have the official RAI. It is what it is. I just disagree with him on this one.
I found this gem while browsing the forums about similar questions, and it BENDS my brains like a hecking pretzel that THIS is what we get as Sage Advice. I have highlighted the relevant parts; just read it and replace animate dead with goodberry.
So according to this, when you cast goodberry its a spell and can be counterspelled. However AFTER you cast it the magic is gone and you are left with a handfull of berries THAT ARE NOT MAGICAL. They can't be dispelled and they work in an antimagic field .
But SOMEHOW these same goodberries will benefit from Disciple of Life in that same antimagic field?!? They STILL count as a spell for THAT feature?!?
#OpenDnD
Why exactly are we hating on Jeremy Crawford?
Not hating, but saying those Crawford rulings and opinions that people disagree with.
Oh okay, got it.
The improbable part is DoL applying to the creation of the berries. Everything after that makes sense. You cast the spell and you get berries; you don't really heal someone, but you get non-magical berries that heal. That's plausible, but "creating berries" shouldn't logically trigger DoL. If you cast while in an antimagic field, no berries; makes sense. If you take non-magical berries into a magical field, they are unaffected; still makes sense. The only thing that doesn't make sense is DoL getting triggered way back when you created berries.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Yeah, that bugs me. A healing potion is inefective inside an anti-magic zone, so the same should apply to a goodberry. The spell even says "infused with magic for the duration." In my games, I made a simple change - the duration of goodberry is now 24 hours, not instantaneous.
Also, unconcious characters can't eat, so goodberry can't be used to revive someone.
My issue about goodberry is characters casting it the night before. In a game I played in, a druid regularly spent every single unspent spell slot on goodberry before bed. Usually the druid was carrying 40-60 goodberries, sometimes more. If the druid were instead a life cleric, that is potentially 160-200 HP (more if higher slots are used) of between-encounter healing. I know the game has this idea that parties should heal up between fights, but that's a little ridiculous.
That said, I haven't seen it in play at a table, so I don't know if it actually is an issue.
Nether have I ..I think most people don't think about the broken HP regain builds as much as the damage ones.
Also out of combat healing tends to be less of a big deal in most games with hit dice, spells, potions... So much available to heal up between fights and not many parties end up with more then 3 fights per day.
Animate Dead and Goodberry have instantenous duration. Dispel Magic affect spell's effect with lasting duration only. It make sense to me that neither can be dispelled.
I do this quite regularly with my 12th level Druid. I typically keep about 40 Goodberries on hand. I don’t do more than that. And it has never been an issue. For one thing, I’m old and forget that I have them so tend not to hand them out. Secondly, we usually don’t heal between fights if we are not in bad shape.
Actually, I think the time I used most of them was when rescued a large group of people who were in need of food and healing. I use them occasionally, but with it being out of combat it’s not a big deal.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?