Situation: a party is trying to move a "large" amount of adamantine, in one piece. This size of item will fit inside of the sphere. But, I can't find any elaboration on this part: does the object retain its weight when the sphere is being pushed from the outside? Would the party be unable to roll the adamantine inside the sphere because of how much it weighs?
The spell says that the sphere is weightless and can be picked up and moved by other creatures. Based off that, it doesn't appear to matter how much the creature or object contained in it weighs. So as long as the adamantine object fits within the sphere, it can be moved without issue.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The spell says that the sphere is weightless and can be picked up and moved by other creatures. Based off that, it doesn't appear to matter how much the creature or object contained in it weighs. So as long as the adamantine object fits within the sphere, it can be moved without issue.
No, the sphere is weightless. That doesn't mean the contents are weightless. Creatures being allowed to pick the sphere up also doesn't mean the contents are weightless.
The general rule in DnD is that invisible rules don't happen, so you follow all rules you're not told not to. That would apply here. An object inside the sphere would retain its weight.
As for OP's question about the party rolling the sphere, that's going to absolutely require some house rules from you, but remember, the spell says that anyone trapped inside can roll the thing, which implies the sphere is grippy - someone trying to push against the sphere will generally find purchase, rather than just sliding off. This sphere explicitly does not behave like we'd expect, say, a perfect sphere of ice to. That means if the sphere is on a perfectly hard floor (e.g. the floor is adamantine), so there are no deformation concerns (polar opposite: trying to push the sphere along a beach, or in a swamp), it should take almost no work to roll the sphere. On the contrary, the big challenge will be getting the sphere to stop - however much weight is inside it is going to want to keep rolling in the same direction, and physics will not be kind to anyone getting in the way.
After that, things get even more complicated if you rule the sphere can collect particulate matter, changing its physics as it literally gets grittier (this is why bowlers polish their bowling balls). Does the party have Shape Water, Grease, Tenser's Floating Disk, bags of ball bearings, flasks of oil, or any other magical or mundane sources of lubricant or ways to transport the adamantite without being beholden to a sphere as the shape of their sled? Or of changing the local terrain so the sphere is rolling down a trough that goes in the direction the party wants?
That means if the sphere is on a perfectly hard floor (e.g. the floor is adamantine), so there are no deformation concerns (polar opposite: trying to push the sphere along a beach, or in a swamp), it should take almost no work to roll the sphere. On the contrary, the big challenge will be getting the sphere to stop - however much weight is inside it is going to want to keep rolling in the same direction, and physics will not be kind to anyone getting in the way.
After that, things get even more complicated if you rule the sphere can collect particulate matter, changing its physics as it literally gets grittier (this is why bowlers polish their bowling balls). Does the party have Shape Water, Grease, Tenser's Floating Disk, bags of ball bearings, flasks of oil, or any other magical or mundane sources of lubricant or ways to transport the adamantite without being beholden to a sphere as the shape of their sled? Or of changing the local terrain so the sphere is rolling down a trough that goes in the direction the party wants?
Not necessarily. Being in a smooth sphere will make it easier, but since whoever or whatever is inside has purchase the mass inside still needs to be flipped over. Depending on geometry, that could be very easy or still pretty darn hard. I wouldn't overthink it too much - as the DM, just set a DC and maybe consider if there's things the PCs could do to lower the DC or gives themselves advantage and call it good. That's just me though - with my group skill challenges are usually well received, but overcomplicating something like this would probably not be considered fun (skill challenges are simple in practice and leave the approach to the players, as opposed to the DM breaking a big task down into a bunch of smaller problems the PCs all have to deal with).
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The sphere is weightless and just large enough to contain the creature or object inside. An enclosed creature can use its action to push against the sphere’s walls and thus roll the sphere at up to half the creature’s speed. Similarly, the globe can be picked up and moved by other creatures.
based on this, moving the sphere requires no checks or STR score requirements. DMs can rule if the sphere can be picked up as if weightless or is carrying capacity matters for lifting the sphere, since the language is not as explicit (I’m inclined to rule it can be lifted as if weightless). The biggest issue to lifting as described seems more to stem from a potential spheres bulk rather than weight, so more than one creature may be needed to “grab” the sphere to be able to lift it effectively
The sphere is weightless and just large enough to contain the creature or object inside. An enclosed creature can use its action to push against the sphere’s walls and thus roll the sphere at up to half the creature’s speed. Similarly, the globe can be picked up and moved by other creatures.
based on this, moving the sphere requires no checks or STR score requirements. DMs can rule if the sphere can be picked up as if weightless or is carrying capacity matters for lifting the sphere, since the language is not as explicit (I’m inclined to rule it can be lifted as if weightless). The biggest issue to lifting as described seems more to stem from a potential spheres bulk rather than weight, so more than one creature may be needed to “grab” the sphere to be able to lift it effectively
Not to bring science and physics into this, but if the sphere and everything in it are weightless then there is no way for the enclosed creature to move it. There has to be weight involved in order to be able to apply force to the system and make it move.
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The sphere is weightless and just large enough to contain the creature or object inside. An enclosed creature can use its action to push against the sphere’s walls and thus roll the sphere at up to half the creature’s speed. Similarly, the globe can be picked up and moved by other creatures.
based on this, moving the sphere requires no checks or STR score requirements. DMs can rule if the sphere can be picked up as if weightless or is carrying capacity matters for lifting the sphere, since the language is not as explicit (I’m inclined to rule it can be lifted as if weightless). The biggest issue to lifting as described seems more to stem from a potential spheres bulk rather than weight, so more than one creature may be needed to “grab” the sphere to be able to lift it effectively
Not to bring science and physics into this, but if the sphere and everything in it are weightless then there is no way for the enclosed creature to move it. There has to be weight involved in order to be able to apply force to the system and make it move.
D&D has never had more than a casual relationship with physics.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The sphere is weightless and just large enough to contain the creature or object inside. An enclosed creature can use its action to push against the sphere’s walls and thus roll the sphere at up to half the creature’s speed. Similarly, the globe can be picked up and moved by other creatures.
based on this, moving the sphere requires no checks or STR score requirements. DMs can rule if the sphere can be picked up as if weightless or is carrying capacity matters for lifting the sphere, since the language is not as explicit (I’m inclined to rule it can be lifted as if weightless). The biggest issue to lifting as described seems more to stem from a potential spheres bulk rather than weight, so more than one creature may be needed to “grab” the sphere to be able to lift it effectively
Not to bring science and physics into this, but if the sphere and everything in it are weightless then there is no way for the enclosed creature to move it. There has to be weight involved in order to be able to apply force to the system and make it move.
I completely agree there, there must be friction inside and outside for this to work and the outside one can only be provided by the weight of the sphere itself. Still, it's a very, very rough model, and for example, any slope (which is not addressed in the spell) would make moving it from inside almost impossible upslope, while almost guaranteeing that the sphere will roll downwards whatever is applied to it unless the ground is extremely rough, which would prevent almost any sort of rolling from inside anyway.
Now, back to the OP.'s problem, although the adamantine might still weight a lot, rolling it around in the sphere would certainly help moving it, just be careful of slopes. :)
And when I think about resilient spheres, and although it's not exactly the same thing, there is this extremely famous comic called Valerian, which is a clear inspiration for Star Wars and the Fifth Element, with these images:
And yes, the comics are incredible, but the movie was... disappointing.
I'm realizing now that I misread the portion about rolling the sphere...its for creatures inside, not outside of that...so my bad. That changes my assumptions about the weightless ness of the sphere as well, since that reading is more applicable to only the sphere itself being weightless. Regarding rolling the sphere from the outside then, assuming it is perfectly round, the amount of force to start the sphere rolling is around 1-5% that of sliding (ie dragging) the same weight that isn't round, depending of course on ground materials and any outside factors (wet surfaces, inclines).
The sphere is weightless and just large enough to contain the creature or object inside. An enclosed creature can use its action to push against the sphere’s walls and thus roll the sphere at up to half the creature’s speed. Similarly, the globe can be picked up and moved by other creatures.
based on this, moving the sphere requires no checks or STR score requirements. DMs can rule if the sphere can be picked up as if weightless or is carrying capacity matters for lifting the sphere, since the language is not as explicit (I’m inclined to rule it can be lifted as if weightless). The biggest issue to lifting as described seems more to stem from a potential spheres bulk rather than weight, so more than one creature may be needed to “grab” the sphere to be able to lift it effectively
Not to bring science and physics into this, but if the sphere and everything in it are weightless then there is no way for the enclosed creature to move it. There has to be weight involved in order to be able to apply force to the system and make it move.
D&D has never had more than a casual relationship with physics.
Disagree. Physics are simplified and not always very realistic in D&D, but they still apply. Magic trumps physics and some non-magical effects don't really bear too much scrutiny either, but boats in D&D float the same way they do in real life, gravity pulls down in D&D as per usual, bludgeoning weapons damage through impact, strength determines how much we can lift, and so on. Fantastical elements of D&D notwithstanding, it's a system that presents us a world we understand because it behaves the same way the real world does.
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IMPORTANT: sometimes, to see if a rule applies, or is how you think it is, you must look at similar things in the book. In this case, a Bead of Force, from the DMG. This item essentially does what Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere does to a T, but with one HUGE difference in the wording. It states that the sphere is weightless REGARDLESS of the weight of anything inside. Since this spell misses that wording, it is assumed that the sphere itself is weightless, but whatever’s inside retains its weight
The sphere itself is weightless, not the content inside it. If the contents of the sphere were weightless, IT WOULD SHOOT UP INTO THE SKY LIKE A HYDROGEN BALLOON.
Also note, the relevant factor here is mass, not weight. Weight makes it harder to fly. Mass makes it harder to roll. Ever try to stop a car rolling down a hill? You are not lifting it, the weight does not matter. It is the mass that matters. On the moon, you might be able to lift that car. But you still would not be able to stop it rolling down a hill. Because the more mass an object has the more momentum. Same reason you can pick up a cannon ball, but if you try kick one rolling/bouncing on the ground after it was shot out of a cannon, you will lose your leg.
You can only pick up the object if you could do so before it was in the sphere. But as I said earlier, weight is not the issue when it comes to rolling. I may not be able to pick up a car, but if it is in gear, I can push it. Why? Because wheels are round and they bear the weight.
RAW: You can lift an object weighing upto 30 x Strength score. You can also move at full speed while pushing or dragging a weight upto 30 x strength score. But by RAW there is NO LIMIT to the amount of weight you can push or drag - as long as you are willing to move at 5 ft. Why? Because this assumes you are using a good cart, and the cart will break before your ability to push it stops. The carrying capacity of the cart is the practical limit, not your strength. In this case, the Sphere has an infiinte carrying capacity.
By RAW, you can push, at a speed of 5ft per move, infinite amount of weight in an Otiluke's Sphere.
Is this realistic? In real life, every once in a while you hear about people pulling 18 wheeler trucks with their teeth. They weigh about 80,000 lbs. Personally, I would House Rule that you cannot move more than strength x 5,000 lbs in an Otiluke's Sphere. That works out to about 100,000 lbs at Strength 20.
But I seriously doubt you are going to find anything close to 100,000 lbs of Adamantine.
The sphere is weightless and just large enough to contain the creature or object inside. An enclosed creature can use its action to push against the sphere’s walls and thus roll the sphere at up to half the creature’s speed. Similarly, the globe can be picked up and moved by other creatures.
based on this, moving the sphere requires no checks or STR score requirements. DMs can rule if the sphere can be picked up as if weightless or is carrying capacity matters for lifting the sphere, since the language is not as explicit (I’m inclined to rule it can be lifted as if weightless). The biggest issue to lifting as described seems more to stem from a potential spheres bulk rather than weight, so more than one creature may be needed to “grab” the sphere to be able to lift it effectively
Not to bring science and physics into this, but if the sphere and everything in it are weightless then there is no way for the enclosed creature to move it. There has to be weight involved in order to be able to apply force to the system and make it move.
D&D has never had more than a casual relationship with physics.
Disagree. Physics are simplified and not always very realistic in D&D, but they still apply. Magic trumps physics and some non-magical effects don't really bear too much scrutiny either, but boats in D&D float the same way they do in real life, gravity pulls down in D&D as per usual, bludgeoning weapons damage through impact, strength determines how much we can lift, and so on. Fantastical elements of D&D notwithstanding, it's a system that presents us a world we understand because it behaves the same way the real world does.
There are limits, though. The worlds of D&D aren't made up of atoms, human brains aren't running on electricity, weather doesn't really seem to operate on hot and cold fronts, volcanoes erupt due to the whims of gods and prophecy, not... Whatever actually governs the behavior of volcanoes, lol. Medicine is a Wisdom skill, not an Intelligence skill. You have to sort of engage with it as though the limited knowledge of medieval times was the truth, that's all.
Anyway, for this thread, I feel like it's pretty clear that the spell should be understood as a big soap bubble. Like in a cartoon. You get put in the bubble, you float with the bubble. Maybe that's just me though.
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Situation: a party is trying to move a "large" amount of adamantine, in one piece. This size of item will fit inside of the sphere. But, I can't find any elaboration on this part: does the object retain its weight when the sphere is being pushed from the outside? Would the party be unable to roll the adamantine inside the sphere because of how much it weighs?
The spell says that the sphere is weightless and can be picked up and moved by other creatures. Based off that, it doesn't appear to matter how much the creature or object contained in it weighs. So as long as the adamantine object fits within the sphere, it can be moved without issue.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
No, the sphere is weightless. That doesn't mean the contents are weightless. Creatures being allowed to pick the sphere up also doesn't mean the contents are weightless.
The general rule in DnD is that invisible rules don't happen, so you follow all rules you're not told not to. That would apply here. An object inside the sphere would retain its weight.
As for OP's question about the party rolling the sphere, that's going to absolutely require some house rules from you, but remember, the spell says that anyone trapped inside can roll the thing, which implies the sphere is grippy - someone trying to push against the sphere will generally find purchase, rather than just sliding off. This sphere explicitly does not behave like we'd expect, say, a perfect sphere of ice to. That means if the sphere is on a perfectly hard floor (e.g. the floor is adamantine), so there are no deformation concerns (polar opposite: trying to push the sphere along a beach, or in a swamp), it should take almost no work to roll the sphere. On the contrary, the big challenge will be getting the sphere to stop - however much weight is inside it is going to want to keep rolling in the same direction, and physics will not be kind to anyone getting in the way.
After that, things get even more complicated if you rule the sphere can collect particulate matter, changing its physics as it literally gets grittier (this is why bowlers polish their bowling balls). Does the party have Shape Water, Grease, Tenser's Floating Disk, bags of ball bearings, flasks of oil, or any other magical or mundane sources of lubricant or ways to transport the adamantite without being beholden to a sphere as the shape of their sled? Or of changing the local terrain so the sphere is rolling down a trough that goes in the direction the party wants?
Not necessarily. Being in a smooth sphere will make it easier, but since whoever or whatever is inside has purchase the mass inside still needs to be flipped over. Depending on geometry, that could be very easy or still pretty darn hard. I wouldn't overthink it too much - as the DM, just set a DC and maybe consider if there's things the PCs could do to lower the DC or gives themselves advantage and call it good. That's just me though - with my group skill challenges are usually well received, but overcomplicating something like this would probably not be considered fun (skill challenges are simple in practice and leave the approach to the players, as opposed to the DM breaking a big task down into a bunch of smaller problems the PCs all have to deal with).
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The sphere rules dictate how it can be moved:
The sphere is weightless and just large enough to contain the creature or object inside. An enclosed creature can use its action to push against the sphere’s walls and thus roll the sphere at up to half the creature’s speed. Similarly, the globe can be picked up and moved by other creatures.
based on this, moving the sphere requires no checks or STR score requirements. DMs can rule if the sphere can be picked up as if weightless or is carrying capacity matters for lifting the sphere, since the language is not as explicit (I’m inclined to rule it can be lifted as if weightless). The biggest issue to lifting as described seems more to stem from a potential spheres bulk rather than weight, so more than one creature may be needed to “grab” the sphere to be able to lift it effectively
Not to bring science and physics into this, but if the sphere and everything in it are weightless then there is no way for the enclosed creature to move it. There has to be weight involved in order to be able to apply force to the system and make it move.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
D&D has never had more than a casual relationship with physics.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm realizing now that I misread the portion about rolling the sphere...its for creatures inside, not outside of that...so my bad. That changes my assumptions about the weightless ness of the sphere as well, since that reading is more applicable to only the sphere itself being weightless. Regarding rolling the sphere from the outside then, assuming it is perfectly round, the amount of force to start the sphere rolling is around 1-5% that of sliding (ie dragging) the same weight that isn't round, depending of course on ground materials and any outside factors (wet surfaces, inclines).
Disagree. Physics are simplified and not always very realistic in D&D, but they still apply. Magic trumps physics and some non-magical effects don't really bear too much scrutiny either, but boats in D&D float the same way they do in real life, gravity pulls down in D&D as per usual, bludgeoning weapons damage through impact, strength determines how much we can lift, and so on. Fantastical elements of D&D notwithstanding, it's a system that presents us a world we understand because it behaves the same way the real world does.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
IMPORTANT: sometimes, to see if a rule applies, or is how you think it is, you must look at similar things in the book. In this case, a Bead of Force, from the DMG. This item essentially does what Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere does to a T, but with one HUGE difference in the wording. It states that the sphere is weightless REGARDLESS of the weight of anything inside. Since this spell misses that wording, it is assumed that the sphere itself is weightless, but whatever’s inside retains its weight
The sphere itself is weightless, not the content inside it. If the contents of the sphere were weightless, IT WOULD SHOOT UP INTO THE SKY LIKE A HYDROGEN BALLOON.
Also note, the relevant factor here is mass, not weight. Weight makes it harder to fly. Mass makes it harder to roll. Ever try to stop a car rolling down a hill? You are not lifting it, the weight does not matter. It is the mass that matters. On the moon, you might be able to lift that car. But you still would not be able to stop it rolling down a hill. Because the more mass an object has the more momentum. Same reason you can pick up a cannon ball, but if you try kick one rolling/bouncing on the ground after it was shot out of a cannon, you will lose your leg.
You can only pick up the object if you could do so before it was in the sphere. But as I said earlier, weight is not the issue when it comes to rolling. I may not be able to pick up a car, but if it is in gear, I can push it. Why? Because wheels are round and they bear the weight.
RAW: You can lift an object weighing upto 30 x Strength score. You can also move at full speed while pushing or dragging a weight upto 30 x strength score. But by RAW there is NO LIMIT to the amount of weight you can push or drag - as long as you are willing to move at 5 ft. Why? Because this assumes you are using a good cart, and the cart will break before your ability to push it stops. The carrying capacity of the cart is the practical limit, not your strength. In this case, the Sphere has an infiinte carrying capacity.
By RAW, you can push, at a speed of 5ft per move, infinite amount of weight in an Otiluke's Sphere.
Is this realistic? In real life, every once in a while you hear about people pulling 18 wheeler trucks with their teeth. They weigh about 80,000 lbs. Personally, I would House Rule that you cannot move more than strength x 5,000 lbs in an Otiluke's Sphere. That works out to about 100,000 lbs at Strength 20.
But I seriously doubt you are going to find anything close to 100,000 lbs of Adamantine.
There are limits, though. The worlds of D&D aren't made up of atoms, human brains aren't running on electricity, weather doesn't really seem to operate on hot and cold fronts, volcanoes erupt due to the whims of gods and prophecy, not... Whatever actually governs the behavior of volcanoes, lol. Medicine is a Wisdom skill, not an Intelligence skill. You have to sort of engage with it as though the limited knowledge of medieval times was the truth, that's all.
Anyway, for this thread, I feel like it's pretty clear that the spell should be understood as a big soap bubble. Like in a cartoon. You get put in the bubble, you float with the bubble. Maybe that's just me though.