We are starting a new campaign which I DM, and they work for an organization bla bla bla... there are 3 NPCs that last the entire campaign, helping them out and playing an actual role in some of the arcs. But my problem is that my party is a murderhobos who like to get specific in his gore, a guy that tries to bend the rules more then the avatar, and the last one is chill and follows nicely the plot.
What do I do to stop them from eviscerating my NPCs? Do I just ask beforehand? Do I put them in the corner if they do? Should I add some weird plot armour to the NPCs? I don’t know, honestly
Talk to them beforehand out of game. Make it clear that, while they’ll get plenty of monsters and villains to murder, it’s not fun for you if they murder useful NPCs. If they don’t understand that, frankly they’re probably not nice people to hang around anyway.
If you want to play a well sculpted story-driven game, then it's important to establish that from day one, but it's also important to establish what the players want to play.
(A) If your players aren't interested in more nuanced gameplay, then consider tossing them into a dungeon crawler until they're satisfied and ready to try something new.
(B) If your players are interested in a more nuanced game, then be clear with your expectations and ask for input about what motivates the players other than murdering NPCs. (Use a "carrot", not a "stick".)
D&D should be enjoyable for everyone involved, so if the players simply don't want to play a game you will enjoy running, then don't be afraid of saying so. "I'm not really interested in DMing X kind of game, but if someone else wants to, I'd be happy to roll up a character." Hopefully then the players will either understand the value of compromising, or you'll get a chance to play for a while.
As for the "Rule Bender", "gentle but firm" is usually the route to go. Depending on what is being attempted, it's usually safe to simply ask for an appropriate ability check and let the dice decide. If something is simply too absurd, then make it a staged check. A Nat 20 = 5% chance. Two Nat 20s in a row = 0.25% chance. You will get credit for creating opportunities, but the consequences of failure are going to far outweigh to rewards of success.
I had an issue like this and it didn't exactly go well. I had one player in particular that said from the beginning that she was all for roleplaying and not suffering idiots. Insistently agreed on playing campaign that's a mix of social interaction and trying to solve a bit of a mystery and also a good bit of combat tossed in. Then, after I gave about three minutes of setting exposition for new players to the setting at the very start of the game (set in Ravnica, and she was not familiar with it and had not read the whopping five pages of setting reference material I'd asked everyone to look over) refused to give any introduction of her character when I went around the table for that purpose. After a five minute interaction with an NPC, the party was sent to another location to meet another NPC in a tavern and get their proper briefing. The player hadn't said a word since, and I quote, "Nunya. That's it, nunya," as an introduction until getting to the tavern and then insisted on wanting to attack NPCs including the one they were sent to meet. Other players joined me in trying to convince her this was a bad idea as, aside from killing the person giving them their quest would leave them with nothing to do, the area had a very visible presence from the Boros Legion who act as police and would stomp the crap out of anybody doing what she wanted to do. After we tried to negotiate with her to avoid derailing and otherwise disrupting the game for over a half hour with this behavior she made an excuse about being tired and left, and the rest of the party continued on with the actual quest. The next day I told her, privately, that she was disruptive, rude, and childish, and she flipped out, called the game boring, accused me of "ambushing" her with baseless accusations and insults, and we haven't spoken since.
On one hand I had made it clear to all players that there would be more to the campaign than just rolling dice to attack everything in sight, and the other players understood this. On the other hand I should have noticed the red flags when she brushed off several requests to go over her character sheet and concept (she had only played D&D once before, some time ago) and only rolled up her character just before the game, picking skills/abilities pretty much at random and pointedly ignoring any offered explanation of what they actually do with "Yeah, sure, that sounds cool." On the flipside of that was another new player who first rolled up her sheet with help from an experienced player who wasn't actually in this game, then spent about fifteen minutes going over it with me as the DM, explaining her basic background and motivations in a way that made it clear she'd done at least the minimum preparation I'd asked (in this case a Dimir agent posing as a Selesnya scribe/librarian to monitor the Conclave's activities), and we quickly smoothed out the few little details that were iffy/uncertain. I had been hoping that the problematic player would slip into the right mindset once the game actually started and could provide some immersion, but instead she wasn't interested in any such thing. So it was my mistake for not addressing the brewing problem sooner, and as a result we had a disrupted game and I had a personal falling out with that player that could have, possibly, been avoided if I'd taken her aside earlier and directly said "You don't really seem very interested in anything about this game, are you sure you want to play?"
So, long story short, it is important to have a game prepared that matches your players, and players ready and willing to play that kind of game. By the brief description you gave, you have one player absolutely uninterested and another probably not so much either. As to "rule bending," as DM it is your job to say, when necessary, "No. You can't do that. You will never be allowed to do that. The matter is closed." Personally, I like to keep options open and allow players to suggest/request "creative" uses of existing rules in whatever specific/odd situations that may come up in a game, but as DM I make it clear that I have veto authority over any such ideas and no means no. If your "bender" can't agree to being told no then you can either indulge their proclivities and let them do whatever they want, or you can refuse to play with them. Same with the murderhobo.
Honestly, it sounds like you don't want to play the same kind of game as most of your party and should just find a group that does want to play your kind of game. Trying to force proverbial square pegs into round holes isn't going to end well for anybody.
It is prime material for session zero, but as per the example from Flushmaster that doesn't quite guarantee a desireable outcome. It does give you the moral high ground if the players go off the deep end though - if you don't even try to point noses in the same direction it sort of becomes an anything goes affair and all bets are off.
If one or more players go murderhobo despite the campaign explicitly not being set up for that, I usually have the offending PCs run into the setting-appropriate consequences of their actions: typically something like getting rounded up by law enforcement and being sentenced to a number of years in the salt mines (in metagame terms: that character sheet gets retired, and depending on their attitude the player gets the boot or goes on probation). This doesn't happen often in my experience, and even less often all of the party gets involved. Sometimes a number of the players tell the murderhobo they won't stop them but won't help them either, more often they'll do their best to prevent unnecessary violence. Either will be enough for a reprieve from getting strung up with Mr Murderer, though the former will usually earn them a stern talking to and the promise they made The List and won't be let off as easy next time.
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We are starting a new campaign which I DM, and they work for an organization bla bla bla... there are 3 NPCs that last the entire campaign, helping them out and playing an actual role in some of the arcs.
But my problem is that my party is a murderhobos who like to get specific in his gore, a guy that tries to bend the rules more then the avatar, and the last one is chill and follows nicely the plot.
What do I do to stop them from eviscerating my NPCs? Do I just ask beforehand? Do I put them in the corner if they do? Should I add some weird plot armour to the NPCs? I don’t know, honestly
Talk to them beforehand out of game. Make it clear that, while they’ll get plenty of monsters and villains to murder, it’s not fun for you if they murder useful NPCs. If they don’t understand that, frankly they’re probably not nice people to hang around anyway.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
This is 100% Session Zero material.
If you want to play a well sculpted story-driven game, then it's important to establish that from day one, but it's also important to establish what the players want to play.
(A) If your players aren't interested in more nuanced gameplay, then consider tossing them into a dungeon crawler until they're satisfied and ready to try something new.
(B) If your players are interested in a more nuanced game, then be clear with your expectations and ask for input about what motivates the players other than murdering NPCs. (Use a "carrot", not a "stick".)
D&D should be enjoyable for everyone involved, so if the players simply don't want to play a game you will enjoy running, then don't be afraid of saying so. "I'm not really interested in DMing X kind of game, but if someone else wants to, I'd be happy to roll up a character." Hopefully then the players will either understand the value of compromising, or you'll get a chance to play for a while.
As for the "Rule Bender", "gentle but firm" is usually the route to go. Depending on what is being attempted, it's usually safe to simply ask for an appropriate ability check and let the dice decide. If something is simply too absurd, then make it a staged check. A Nat 20 = 5% chance. Two Nat 20s in a row = 0.25% chance. You will get credit for creating opportunities, but the consequences of failure are going to far outweigh to rewards of success.
Damn! You clearly have a lot of experience in this field, thanks!
I had an issue like this and it didn't exactly go well. I had one player in particular that said from the beginning that she was all for roleplaying and not suffering idiots. Insistently agreed on playing campaign that's a mix of social interaction and trying to solve a bit of a mystery and also a good bit of combat tossed in. Then, after I gave about three minutes of setting exposition for new players to the setting at the very start of the game (set in Ravnica, and she was not familiar with it and had not read the whopping five pages of setting reference material I'd asked everyone to look over) refused to give any introduction of her character when I went around the table for that purpose. After a five minute interaction with an NPC, the party was sent to another location to meet another NPC in a tavern and get their proper briefing. The player hadn't said a word since, and I quote, "Nunya. That's it, nunya," as an introduction until getting to the tavern and then insisted on wanting to attack NPCs including the one they were sent to meet. Other players joined me in trying to convince her this was a bad idea as, aside from killing the person giving them their quest would leave them with nothing to do, the area had a very visible presence from the Boros Legion who act as police and would stomp the crap out of anybody doing what she wanted to do. After we tried to negotiate with her to avoid derailing and otherwise disrupting the game for over a half hour with this behavior she made an excuse about being tired and left, and the rest of the party continued on with the actual quest. The next day I told her, privately, that she was disruptive, rude, and childish, and she flipped out, called the game boring, accused me of "ambushing" her with baseless accusations and insults, and we haven't spoken since.
On one hand I had made it clear to all players that there would be more to the campaign than just rolling dice to attack everything in sight, and the other players understood this. On the other hand I should have noticed the red flags when she brushed off several requests to go over her character sheet and concept (she had only played D&D once before, some time ago) and only rolled up her character just before the game, picking skills/abilities pretty much at random and pointedly ignoring any offered explanation of what they actually do with "Yeah, sure, that sounds cool." On the flipside of that was another new player who first rolled up her sheet with help from an experienced player who wasn't actually in this game, then spent about fifteen minutes going over it with me as the DM, explaining her basic background and motivations in a way that made it clear she'd done at least the minimum preparation I'd asked (in this case a Dimir agent posing as a Selesnya scribe/librarian to monitor the Conclave's activities), and we quickly smoothed out the few little details that were iffy/uncertain. I had been hoping that the problematic player would slip into the right mindset once the game actually started and could provide some immersion, but instead she wasn't interested in any such thing. So it was my mistake for not addressing the brewing problem sooner, and as a result we had a disrupted game and I had a personal falling out with that player that could have, possibly, been avoided if I'd taken her aside earlier and directly said "You don't really seem very interested in anything about this game, are you sure you want to play?"
So, long story short, it is important to have a game prepared that matches your players, and players ready and willing to play that kind of game. By the brief description you gave, you have one player absolutely uninterested and another probably not so much either. As to "rule bending," as DM it is your job to say, when necessary, "No. You can't do that. You will never be allowed to do that. The matter is closed." Personally, I like to keep options open and allow players to suggest/request "creative" uses of existing rules in whatever specific/odd situations that may come up in a game, but as DM I make it clear that I have veto authority over any such ideas and no means no. If your "bender" can't agree to being told no then you can either indulge their proclivities and let them do whatever they want, or you can refuse to play with them. Same with the murderhobo.
Honestly, it sounds like you don't want to play the same kind of game as most of your party and should just find a group that does want to play your kind of game. Trying to force proverbial square pegs into round holes isn't going to end well for anybody.
It is prime material for session zero, but as per the example from Flushmaster that doesn't quite guarantee a desireable outcome. It does give you the moral high ground if the players go off the deep end though - if you don't even try to point noses in the same direction it sort of becomes an anything goes affair and all bets are off.
If one or more players go murderhobo despite the campaign explicitly not being set up for that, I usually have the offending PCs run into the setting-appropriate consequences of their actions: typically something like getting rounded up by law enforcement and being sentenced to a number of years in the salt mines (in metagame terms: that character sheet gets retired, and depending on their attitude the player gets the boot or goes on probation). This doesn't happen often in my experience, and even less often all of the party gets involved. Sometimes a number of the players tell the murderhobo they won't stop them but won't help them either, more often they'll do their best to prevent unnecessary violence. Either will be enough for a reprieve from getting strung up with Mr Murderer, though the former will usually earn them a stern talking to and the promise they made The List and won't be let off as easy next time.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].