That is why I am hoping for Dark Sun since it is a Post Apocalyptic setting so fairly unique.
Dark Sun, Planescape and Spelljammer all would (or could, anyway - it'd still depend on execution) broaden the spectrum of available settings meaningfully. Of the host of other settings WotC still owns I think only Ghostwalk and the so far not covered FR areas really have any shot at getting republished. The specialty products Birthright and Council of Wyrms would be cool, but seem unlikely to get resources devoted to them in the 5E era with its slow release pace (Birthright-like content has been produced for 5E by 3rd party developers as well, notably MCDM).
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Every official published module has been in Faerun:
Baldurs Gate: Descent: Faerun Curse of Strahd: Faerun Hoard of the Dragon Queen: Faerun Icewind Dale: Rime: Faerun Lost Mine: Faerun Princes: Faerun Rise of Tiamat: Faerun Storm King: Faerun Tomb of Annihilation: Faerun Waterdeep: Both Books: Faerun
Every single misc adventure book has at the very least said hey you can run it in Forgotten Realms:
Saltmarsh references three settings, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, and Mystara(good luck knowing what that is unless you're REALLY into D&D Lore or have played Basic).
Tales of the Yawning Portal references Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance and Greyhawk.
Candlekeep Mysteries, well, is in Candlekeep, which is in Faerun.
SCAG was the first setting book three years after 5th came out, because every module was in Faerun.
It just cements why easily accessible lore is important. SCAG wasn't well received, and honestly it deserved that criticism, but it still gave DMs something to work with. The problem was it was too narrow. Instead of giving us a 300 page guide on Faerun, the history(Chapter 1 was FANTASTIC, just needed more of that), it gives that brief rundown, then how the races work, some new subclasses(the origin for this concept), and then ironically how to adapt Forgotten Realms content into Greyhawk, Eberron, or Dragonlance.
M:tG is polarizing to some(myself included) because while some of the fanbase crosses over, a good chunk is VERY polarized to either one or the other. It's about the lore though, and with each magic setting they release, it's easier to tie the lore into everything else. Creating that multiverse is important, and giving players access to that is more important.
WotC didn't decide on a primary setting for no reason either.
Faerun/Forgotten Realms is the official setting of 5th edition.
Yes, it is. My poor syntax notwithstanding, I meant that WotC has always had a single primary setting for each edition. There were a bunch of ancillary setting books as well, but for 3rd and 5th edition the FR are the main squeeze (4th started with "points of light" and switched to Nentir Vale). That's because having multiple settings inevitably results in them competing against each other, which is bad. With sufficiently different settings it's not the end of the world, since they might get sales out of people who just aren't into the primary one, but with the Realms, Greyhawk and Dragonlance all fishing in the same high/epic fantasy pond a lot of sensible people with a limited budget just aren't going to want to catch 'em all despite liking that flavour. Tone aside, the M:tG sourcebooks have the added benefit of a well-defined theme: even if you're not interested in them as a setting per se, you might still want to use the urban intrigue of Ravnica in your chosen setting, or Strixhaven's school of magic, and so on.
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Your brother has either been misinformed or didn’t explain it very well. Modern is one of the most popular formats and is supported by WotC with no end in site. Legacy, which allows you to play nearly every card printed, was removed from tournament play by WotC due to accessibility issue with the Revered List. Magic is going nowhere. It’s the grandaddy of the TCG market and still the most popular after nearly 30 years on the market, because of that, WotC will continue to cross promote their products. Hell MtG is getting a Forgotten Realms set next month.
Does any Magic player actually follow or read the background/history of the world, rather than just playing the card game?
Quite a few of us do. If you don't believe it, go to a LGS on a Friday evening and ask a table of Magic players about how the official fiction handled Nissa and Chandra, or opinions on Jace Beleren in general. A good portion of the story is literally printed on the cards, as lore text, which will often result in players drafting recently released sets to loudly ask things like "Wait, [character] did what, now?" Then somebody who actually reads the full published fiction explains that, yes, Rakdos the demon lord actually did let the planeswalker Gideon Jura to ride on his head while he tackled Nicol Bolas to try to give Gideon a shot at him with the super-duper-sword-of-doom before he could ascend to godhood. And how it didn't work, but still bought time for somebody else to take him down. Edit: As a note on relevance to the D&D/MtG crossovers, the events I just described happened on the plane of Ravnica, where Rakdos is the guildmaster of the Cult of Rakdos (which is organized as an openly demon worshipping circus franchise), so he's one of the most politically powerful beings on the plane as well as having the second or third highest CR listed in the sourcebook.
That is why I am hoping for Dark Sun since it is a Post Apocalyptic setting so fairly unique.
Dark Sun, Planescape and Spelljammer all would (or could, anyway - it'd still depend on execution) broaden the spectrum of available settings meaningfully. Of the host of other settings WotC still owns I think only Ghostwalk and the so far not covered FR areas really have any shot at getting republished. The specialty products Birthright and Council of Wyrms would be cool, but seem unlikely to get resources devoted to them in the 5E era with its slow release pace (Birthright-like content has been produced for 5E by 3rd party developers as well, notably MCDM).
The release pace is no longer as slow, we're getting 5 hard covers this year, where formerly it was 3-4 per year, and if all goes well in Development it loojs like 2022 will out do that with no less then 5 Setting Books being worked on as we speak, not including the up coming Strixhaven. 2 Classic Settings, 1 Return Visit, and 2 New Settings.
That is why I am hoping for Dark Sun since it is a Post Apocalyptic setting so fairly unique.
Dark Sun, Planescape and Spelljammer all would (or could, anyway - it'd still depend on execution) broaden the spectrum of available settings meaningfully. Of the host of other settings WotC still owns I think only Ghostwalk and the so far not covered FR areas really have any shot at getting republished. The specialty products Birthright and Council of Wyrms would be cool, but seem unlikely to get resources devoted to them in the 5E era with its slow release pace (Birthright-like content has been produced for 5E by 3rd party developers as well, notably MCDM).
The release pace is no longer as slow, we're getting 5 hard covers this year, where formerly it was 3-4 per year, and if all goes well in Development it loojs like 2022 will out do that with no less then 5 Setting Books being worked on as we speak, not including the up coming Strixhaven. 2 Classic Settings, 1 Return Visit, and 2 New Settings.
Being worked on is not the same as getting released next year, necessarily. As for pace, over 40 hardcovers were released for 4E (the “failed” edition that lasted only 6 years) - 5 hard covers per year is still slow.
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Yes, it is. My poor syntax notwithstanding, I meant that WotC has always had a single primary setting for each edition. There were a bunch of ancillary setting books as well, but for 3rd and 5th edition the FR are the main squeeze (4th started with "points of light" and switched to Nentir Vale).
Nit: points of light wasn't a setting, it was a way DMs were by default assumed to create their own settings. Nentir Vale was introduced in the DMG as an example.
That is why I am hoping for Dark Sun since it is a Post Apocalyptic setting so fairly unique.
Dark Sun, Planescape and Spelljammer all would (or could, anyway - it'd still depend on execution) broaden the spectrum of available settings meaningfully. Of the host of other settings WotC still owns I think only Ghostwalk and the so far not covered FR areas really have any shot at getting republished. The specialty products Birthright and Council of Wyrms would be cool, but seem unlikely to get resources devoted to them in the 5E era with its slow release pace (Birthright-like content has been produced for 5E by 3rd party developers as well, notably MCDM).
The release pace is no longer as slow, we're getting 5 hard covers this year, where formerly it was 3-4 per year, and if all goes well in Development it loojs like 2022 will out do that with no less then 5 Setting Books being worked on as we speak, not including the up coming Strixhaven. 2 Classic Settings, 1 Return Visit, and 2 New Settings.
Being worked on is not the same as getting released next year, necessarily. As for pace, over 40 hardcovers were released for 4E (the “failed” edition that lasted only 6 years) - 5 hard covers per year is still slow.
Also per Ray Winninger tweet that's at the route of a lot of the latter part of this thread's discussion "being worked on" also doesn't mean "definitely will be published."
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
So, I came over from M:tg and really got into D&D during 5th... like sure, I've played AD&D, but that was still in 2015 because my wife's dad wanted to run Against the Giants.
As for Dark Sun vs. Innistrad, I have a few guesses, and I'd like for you guys to correct me if I'm wrong. How many more Player Mechanics that aren't magic items are unique to Dark Sun and the like? I mean, a HUGE part of Eberron's draw is Warforged and Artificers. What is Dark Sun's Artificer?
I mean, Spelljammer has Spelljammers, but they'll likely come off much like Ghosts of Saltmarsh, which I believe underperformed. What is something from Spelljammer that a player at FNM can have at level 1, 2, or 3, for sure?
Besides that, Pangurjan has hit the nail on the head. Dragonlance features high fantasy without gods and with dragonborn, all of which practically already exists. What are you going to put in front of your player much more than a setting bible and maps? I mean, SCAG also failed because it was a rushed, incomprehensible mess, but that's a different rant.
And in response to Farling: I did. The Thran, Planeswalker, and Nemesis were my favourite books out of the 15-ish that I read. Nemesis was REALLY fun... and most casual tables have at least 1 Vorthos who tells the rest about the story.
As for Dark Sun vs. Innistrad, I have a few guesses, and I'd like for you guys to correct me if I'm wrong. How many more Player Mechanics that aren't magic items are unique to Dark Sun and the like? I mean, a HUGE part of Eberron's draw is Warforged and Artificers. What is Dark Sun's Artificer?
It should be the Psionicist. Given the current treatment of psionics though, I'm having reservations about that.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
So, I came over from M:tg and really got into D&D during 5th... like sure, I've played AD&D, but that was still in 2015 because my wife's dad wanted to run Against the Giants.
As for Dark Sun vs. Innistrad, I have a few guesses, and I'd like for you guys to correct me if I'm wrong. How many more Player Mechanics that aren't magic items are unique to Dark Sun and the like? I mean, a HUGE part of Eberron's draw is Warforged and Artificers. What is Dark Sun's Artificer?
I mean, Spelljammer has Spelljammers, but they'll likely come off much like Ghosts of Saltmarsh, which I believe underperformed. What is something from Spelljammer that a player at FNM can have at level 1, 2, or 3, for sure?
Besides that, Pangurjan has hit the nail on the head. Dragonlance features high fantasy without gods and with dragonborn, all of which practically already exists. What are you going to put in front of your player much more than a setting bible and maps? I mean, SCAG also failed because it was a rushed, incomprehensible mess, but that's a different rant.
And in response to Farling: I did. The Thran, Planeswalker, and Nemesis were my favourite books out of the 15-ish that I read. Nemesis was REALLY fun... and most casual tables have at least 1 Vorthos who tells the rest about the story.
Psionics plays a large part in Dark Sun as does the corrupting effects of magic. There are also a few races that are unique to the setting as well. I would recommending using google to find out some of the finer details.
As for Dark Sun vs. Innistrad, I have a few guesses, and I'd like for you guys to correct me if I'm wrong. How many more Player Mechanics that aren't magic items are unique to Dark Sun and the like? I mean, a HUGE part of Eberron's draw is Warforged and Artificers. What is Dark Sun's Artificer?
Dark Sun has the Psion, which in the setting largely replaced spellcasters due to the world having a defect where arcane magic was actively harmful to the environment and any living thing unfortunate to be caught in the proximity of a caster. Spellcasting did exist, but came with narrative and mechanical baggage that actively limited its use. There is more, but I'll have to leave the rest to someone more familiar with it.
As for Dark Sun vs. Innistrad, I have a few guesses, and I'd like for you guys to correct me if I'm wrong. How many more Player Mechanics that aren't magic items are unique to Dark Sun and the like? I mean, a HUGE part of Eberron's draw is Warforged and Artificers. What is Dark Sun's Artificer?
Dark Sun has the Psion, which in the setting largely replaced spellcasters due to the world having a defect where arcane magic was actively harmful to the environment and any living thing unfortunate to be caught in the proximity of a caster. Spellcasting did exist, but came with narrative and mechanical baggage that actively limited its use. There is more, but I'll have to leave the rest to someone more familiar with it.
I actually wonder if that baggage is why they're dragging their feet. They generally prefer power creep to power sink.
As for Dark Sun vs. Innistrad, I have a few guesses, and I'd like for you guys to correct me if I'm wrong. How many more Player Mechanics that aren't magic items are unique to Dark Sun and the like? I mean, a HUGE part of Eberron's draw is Warforged and Artificers. What is Dark Sun's Artificer?
Dark Sun has the Psion, which in the setting largely replaced spellcasters due to the world having a defect where arcane magic was actively harmful to the environment and any living thing unfortunate to be caught in the proximity of a caster. Spellcasting did exist, but came with narrative and mechanical baggage that actively limited its use. There is more, but I'll have to leave the rest to someone more familiar with it.
I actually wonder if that baggage is why they're dragging their feet. They generally prefer power creep to power sink.
The main baggage over Dark Sun is the fact that "everyone is morally gray or evil, slavery is practiced and generally seen as okay or even preferable to being lost in the deserts and the wastes" and... modern sensibilities do not lend themselves to very well.
Note, I say this as someone who LOVES Dark Sun because post apocalyptic morally gray is right up my alley
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
WotC didn't decide on a primary setting for no reason either. The Realms, Greyhawk and Dragonlance have very different lore, but not really a very different feel to them. They're all somewhere on the epic/high fantasy spectrum, and not even that far from each other at that. Exandria is in the same boat too, but given Critical Role's massive popularity especially with newer players it a) sells itself and b) provides a low entry bar into a buying into a published setting. The latter is significant too: if I was a newish DM who started in the 5E era, would I want to make the Oerth or Krynn or Faerûn the setting for my campaigns? I rather doubt it, getting to know those worlds starting from zero would be a daunting task and if an older player with previous edition experience came along I'd probably feel like every mistake I made out of ignorance would undermine my credibility.
I get wanting to tap into the nostalgia market, and there's certainly a lot to say for giving players who grew up on those classic settings what they crave, but I can totally see why WotC waited with a 5E Dragonlance book until new novels could provide some extra impetus and why Greyhawk is an unlikely pick for the third classic setting. Ravenloft can be useful even if for nothing other than as a horror game inspiration; Ravnica, Theros, Strixhaven - they all have a theme that sets them apart from "another take on high/epic fantasy" too; Eberron is pulp noir with magitech tones. Greyhawk would only have that nostalgia factor and whatever crunch WotC would put into it to drive sales, Dragonlance will only have the new novels on top of that.
That is why I am hoping for Dark Sun since it is a Post Apocalyptic setting so fairly unique.
PLEASE, God...
^
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
...love how everyone just ignores my post explaining why Dark Sun likely won't come to 5e. -sigh-
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
...love how everyone just ignores my post explaining why Dark Sun likely won't come to 5e. -sigh-
I agree its likely not coming....or if it does it will be toned down a lot. Cannibal halflings are not generally the bag WotC is currently going for. I do hope I am wrong though.
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Dark Sun, Planescape and Spelljammer all would (or could, anyway - it'd still depend on execution) broaden the spectrum of available settings meaningfully. Of the host of other settings WotC still owns I think only Ghostwalk and the so far not covered FR areas really have any shot at getting republished. The specialty products Birthright and Council of Wyrms would be cool, but seem unlikely to get resources devoted to them in the 5E era with its slow release pace (Birthright-like content has been produced for 5E by 3rd party developers as well, notably MCDM).
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Faerun/Forgotten Realms is the official setting of 5th edition. Here's an interview with Mearls back in 2014.
https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/inside-the-launch-of-the-new-dungeons-dragons-with-designer-mike-mearls/
Every official published module has been in Faerun:
Baldurs Gate: Descent: Faerun
Curse of Strahd: Faerun
Hoard of the Dragon Queen: Faerun
Icewind Dale: Rime: Faerun
Lost Mine: Faerun
Princes: Faerun
Rise of Tiamat: Faerun
Storm King: Faerun
Tomb of Annihilation: Faerun
Waterdeep: Both Books: Faerun
Every single misc adventure book has at the very least said hey you can run it in Forgotten Realms:
Saltmarsh references three settings, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, and Mystara(good luck knowing what that is unless you're REALLY into D&D Lore or have played Basic).
Tales of the Yawning Portal references Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance and Greyhawk.
Candlekeep Mysteries, well, is in Candlekeep, which is in Faerun.
SCAG was the first setting book three years after 5th came out, because every module was in Faerun.
It just cements why easily accessible lore is important. SCAG wasn't well received, and honestly it deserved that criticism, but it still gave DMs something to work with. The problem was it was too narrow. Instead of giving us a 300 page guide on Faerun, the history(Chapter 1 was FANTASTIC, just needed more of that), it gives that brief rundown, then how the races work, some new subclasses(the origin for this concept), and then ironically how to adapt Forgotten Realms content into Greyhawk, Eberron, or Dragonlance.
M:tG is polarizing to some(myself included) because while some of the fanbase crosses over, a good chunk is VERY polarized to either one or the other. It's about the lore though, and with each magic setting they release, it's easier to tie the lore into everything else. Creating that multiverse is important, and giving players access to that is more important.
Yes, it is. My poor syntax notwithstanding, I meant that WotC has always had a single primary setting for each edition. There were a bunch of ancillary setting books as well, but for 3rd and 5th edition the FR are the main squeeze (4th started with "points of light" and switched to Nentir Vale). That's because having multiple settings inevitably results in them competing against each other, which is bad. With sufficiently different settings it's not the end of the world, since they might get sales out of people who just aren't into the primary one, but with the Realms, Greyhawk and Dragonlance all fishing in the same high/epic fantasy pond a lot of sensible people with a limited budget just aren't going to want to catch 'em all despite liking that flavour. Tone aside, the M:tG sourcebooks have the added benefit of a well-defined theme: even if you're not interested in them as a setting per se, you might still want to use the urban intrigue of Ravnica in your chosen setting, or Strixhaven's school of magic, and so on.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Your brother has either been misinformed or didn’t explain it very well. Modern is one of the most popular formats and is supported by WotC with no end in site. Legacy, which allows you to play nearly every card printed, was removed from tournament play by WotC due to accessibility issue with the Revered List. Magic is going nowhere. It’s the grandaddy of the TCG market and still the most popular after nearly 30 years on the market, because of that, WotC will continue to cross promote their products. Hell MtG is getting a Forgotten Realms set next month.
They are both produced by the same company ;)
Does any Magic player actually follow or read the background/history of the world, rather than just playing the card game?
Quite a few of us do. If you don't believe it, go to a LGS on a Friday evening and ask a table of Magic players about how the official fiction handled Nissa and Chandra, or opinions on Jace Beleren in general. A good portion of the story is literally printed on the cards, as lore text, which will often result in players drafting recently released sets to loudly ask things like "Wait, [character] did what, now?" Then somebody who actually reads the full published fiction explains that, yes, Rakdos the demon lord actually did let the planeswalker Gideon Jura to ride on his head while he tackled Nicol Bolas to try to give Gideon a shot at him with the super-duper-sword-of-doom before he could ascend to godhood. And how it didn't work, but still bought time for somebody else to take him down. Edit: As a note on relevance to the D&D/MtG crossovers, the events I just described happened on the plane of Ravnica, where Rakdos is the guildmaster of the Cult of Rakdos (which is organized as an openly demon worshipping circus franchise), so he's one of the most politically powerful beings on the plane as well as having the second or third highest CR listed in the sourcebook.
The release pace is no longer as slow, we're getting 5 hard covers this year, where formerly it was 3-4 per year, and if all goes well in Development it loojs like 2022 will out do that with no less then 5 Setting Books being worked on as we speak, not including the up coming Strixhaven. 2 Classic Settings, 1 Return Visit, and 2 New Settings.
Being worked on is not the same as getting released next year, necessarily. As for pace, over 40 hardcovers were released for 4E (the “failed” edition that lasted only 6 years) - 5 hard covers per year is still slow.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Nit: points of light wasn't a setting, it was a way DMs were by default assumed to create their own settings. Nentir Vale was introduced in the DMG as an example.
Also per Ray Winninger tweet that's at the route of a lot of the latter part of this thread's discussion "being worked on" also doesn't mean "definitely will be published."
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
So, I came over from M:tg and really got into D&D during 5th... like sure, I've played AD&D, but that was still in 2015 because my wife's dad wanted to run Against the Giants.
As for Dark Sun vs. Innistrad, I have a few guesses, and I'd like for you guys to correct me if I'm wrong. How many more Player Mechanics that aren't magic items are unique to Dark Sun and the like? I mean, a HUGE part of Eberron's draw is Warforged and Artificers. What is Dark Sun's Artificer?
I mean, Spelljammer has Spelljammers, but they'll likely come off much like Ghosts of Saltmarsh, which I believe underperformed. What is something from Spelljammer that a player at FNM can have at level 1, 2, or 3, for sure?
Besides that, Pangurjan has hit the nail on the head. Dragonlance features high fantasy without gods and with dragonborn, all of which practically already exists. What are you going to put in front of your player much more than a setting bible and maps? I mean, SCAG also failed because it was a rushed, incomprehensible mess, but that's a different rant.
And in response to Farling: I did. The Thran, Planeswalker, and Nemesis were my favourite books out of the 15-ish that I read. Nemesis was REALLY fun... and most casual tables have at least 1 Vorthos who tells the rest about the story.
It should be the Psionicist. Given the current treatment of psionics though, I'm having reservations about that.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Psionics plays a large part in Dark Sun as does the corrupting effects of magic. There are also a few races that are unique to the setting as well. I would recommending using google to find out some of the finer details.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Dark Sun has the Psion, which in the setting largely replaced spellcasters due to the world having a defect where arcane magic was actively harmful to the environment and any living thing unfortunate to be caught in the proximity of a caster. Spellcasting did exist, but came with narrative and mechanical baggage that actively limited its use. There is more, but I'll have to leave the rest to someone more familiar with it.
I actually wonder if that baggage is why they're dragging their feet. They generally prefer power creep to power sink.
The main baggage over Dark Sun is the fact that "everyone is morally gray or evil, slavery is practiced and generally seen as okay or even preferable to being lost in the deserts and the wastes" and... modern sensibilities do not lend themselves to very well.
Note, I say this as someone who LOVES Dark Sun because post apocalyptic morally gray is right up my alley
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
^
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
...love how everyone just ignores my post explaining why Dark Sun likely won't come to 5e. -sigh-
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I agree its likely not coming....or if it does it will be toned down a lot. Cannibal halflings are not generally the bag WotC is currently going for. I do hope I am wrong though.