As for Dark Sun vs. Innistrad, I have a few guesses, and I'd like for you guys to correct me if I'm wrong. How many more Player Mechanics that aren't magic items are unique to Dark Sun and the like? I mean, a HUGE part of Eberron's draw is Warforged and Artificers. What is Dark Sun's Artificer?
Dark Sun has the Psion, which in the setting largely replaced spellcasters due to the world having a defect where arcane magic was actively harmful to the environment and any living thing unfortunate to be caught in the proximity of a caster. Spellcasting did exist, but came with narrative and mechanical baggage that actively limited its use. There is more, but I'll have to leave the rest to someone more familiar with it.
I actually wonder if that baggage is why they're dragging their feet. They generally prefer power creep to power sink.
The main baggage over Dark Sun is the fact that "everyone is morally gray or evil, slavery is practiced and generally seen as okay or even preferable to being lost in the deserts and the wastes" and... modern sensibilities do not lend themselves to very well.
Note, I say this as someone who LOVES Dark Sun because post apocalyptic morally gray is right up my alley
In the spirit of not ignoring this post, I shall reply...
I think that they could easily change the setting to make it more friendly to today's society. Wether they will or not remains to be seen.
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
As for Dark Sun vs. Innistrad, I have a few guesses, and I'd like for you guys to correct me if I'm wrong. How many more Player Mechanics that aren't magic items are unique to Dark Sun and the like? I mean, a HUGE part of Eberron's draw is Warforged and Artificers. What is Dark Sun's Artificer?
Dark Sun has the Psion, which in the setting largely replaced spellcasters due to the world having a defect where arcane magic was actively harmful to the environment and any living thing unfortunate to be caught in the proximity of a caster. Spellcasting did exist, but came with narrative and mechanical baggage that actively limited its use. There is more, but I'll have to leave the rest to someone more familiar with it.
I actually wonder if that baggage is why they're dragging their feet. They generally prefer power creep to power sink.
The main baggage over Dark Sun is the fact that "everyone is morally gray or evil, slavery is practiced and generally seen as okay or even preferable to being lost in the deserts and the wastes" and... modern sensibilities do not lend themselves to very well.
Note, I say this as someone who LOVES Dark Sun because post apocalyptic morally gray is right up my alley
In the spirit of not ignoring this post, I shall reply...
I think that they could easily change the setting to make it more friendly to today's society. Wether they will or not remains to be seen.
I'd love a 5E Planescape... but not if it's bad. I think that goes for Dark Sun fans and Dark Sun too.
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...love how everyone just ignores my post explaining why Dark Sun likely won't come to 5e. -sigh-
I ignored it because the likelihood of it happening or not is irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that I would like Dark Sun to be one of the "Classic" settings.
This happened as soon as WOTC owned both D&D and MtG. The D&D books started becoming very MTG oriented, which I thought was sad. Then D&D got MTG environments such as Ravnica. Now MTG is getting D&D characters.
Personally, as someone who has payed both for 25+ years, I prefer to keep them separate.
This happened as soon as WOTC owned both D&D and MtG. The D&D books started becoming very MTG oriented, which I thought was sad. Then D&D got MTG environments such as Ravnica. Now MTG is getting D&D characters.
Personally, as someone who has payed both for 25+ years, I prefer to keep them separate.
Third edition was M:tG-oriented? In what way?
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...love how everyone just ignores my post explaining why Dark Sun likely won't come to 5e. -sigh-
I mean, I read it. I think you're not the only person thinking Dark Sun is unlikely, and the grounds you articulate are the same by those who've articulated before (me too). Just cuz no one's directly responding to your post doesn't mean it's being ignored ... it's actually discussed quite a bit on this forum.
The only way I see Dark Sun happening is if WotC for whatever reasons, thinks the brand is big enough that they can do products targeting age demographics. You sort of see that with some products targeting younger audiences, Dark Sun would have to be a step in a different direction, products for "mature audiences" as the entertainment biz, including TTRPGs, call it.
I don't see Hasbro going there though. Of course, I know Avernus had at least one scene of cannibalism and another of public urination in a wasteland, so you never know. I think for Dark Sun to be done to Dark Sun fans liking, it'd probably be better to grant the license for Dark Sun to Kobold Press (who've collaborated directly with Wizards before) and have it produced third party. The aesthetics that are clearly derived from Gor and other "leather" subcultures, which I think are integral to the look of the world, are a place I don't see Hasbro wanting Wizards publishing under the D&D brand. I think that's actually more the challenge than slavery (discussed with Drow and goblins off the top of my head) or cannibalism (feeding on humanoids is mentioned in Avernus and Rime of the Frost Maiden, again off the top of my head).
Honestly, if there's a setting I'm surprised hasn't been officially done for D&D yet, it's modern fantasy (e.g. Dresden Files), as it's a major and popular subgenre of fantasy that D&D would probably be fine for.
Honestly, if there's a setting I'm surprised hasn't been officially done for D&D yet, it's modern fantasy (e.g. Dresden Files), as it's a major and popular subgenre of fantasy that D&D would probably be fine for.
D20 Modern (including the Urban Arcana sourcebook for urban fantasy) did ok back in the 3E era, but wasn't a runaway success either. And I think the amount of work overhauling and balancing the classes would be almost as substantial as developing a new edition would be.
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Honestly, if there's a setting I'm surprised hasn't been officially done for D&D yet, it's modern fantasy (e.g. Dresden Files), as it's a major and popular subgenre of fantasy that D&D would probably be fine for.
D20 Modern (including the Urban Arcana sourcebook for urban fantasy) did ok back in the 3E era, but wasn't a runaway success either. And I think the amount of work overhauling and balancing the classes would be almost as substantial as developing a new edition would be.
D20 Modern was trying to bolt a new system onto a d20 frame. Which isn't a horrible idea, but isn't what I was talking about -- I was talking about just using D&D as is. Sure, firearms are a lot more powerful than standard D&D weapons so you might have to either tweak a lot of balance or just be extremely liberal with Resistant, but the latter is kind of in-genre.
Personally, as someone who has payed both for 25+ years, I prefer to keep them separate.
100% total agreement. D&D history is rich with ideas and settings we don't need MTG and Planeswalkers shoehorned into the game.
Everything is shoehorned fantasy. Every single setting steals ideas and tropes and shares themes. To not want one and want the others, to me, is silly.
...love how everyone just ignores my post explaining why Dark Sun likely won't come to 5e. -sigh-
People can want what they want. They aren’t ignoring you, they just have their own desire. I’d personally love to see the dedication to Ravenloft in 5th that it got in AD&D 2nd, but it won’t happen. I’d love to see a remake of the Star Wars Saga system, but it won’t happen. Still want them both though.
Honestly, if there's a setting I'm surprised hasn't been officially done for D&D yet, it's modern fantasy (e.g. Dresden Files), as it's a major and popular subgenre of fantasy that D&D would probably be fine for.
D20 Modern (including the Urban Arcana sourcebook for urban fantasy) did ok back in the 3E era, but wasn't a runaway success either. And I think the amount of work overhauling and balancing the classes would be almost as substantial as developing a new edition would be.
D20 Modern was trying to bolt a new system onto a d20 frame. Which isn't a horrible idea, but isn't what I was talking about -- I was talking about just using D&D as is. Sure, firearms are a lot more powerful than standard D&D weapons so you might have to either tweak a lot of balance or just be extremely liberal with Resistant, but the latter is kind of in-genre.
I referenced D20 Modern because it provides some context around how successful an urban fantasy setting for D&D could (or could not) be: if that one's comparative lack of success is any indication, it wouldn't be surprising for WotC not to want to spend the resources necessary on a risky venture. I think you're underestimating the amount of work it'd be to adjust D&D to a modern setting, even keeping the system intact. There's a lot more to it than firearms alone. Current technology is in many ways comparable to high level magic - the internet, cloud data, hacking, satellites, modern warfare and law enforcement, medicine. If we're assuming a Dresden Files type setting, religion needs to be reworked massively, and a number of races need to be balanced out. Some classes become pointless or need to be reflavored from the ground up. And all of it needs to be balanced out and made plausible - including in the other direction as well, if the notion of magical healing, compulsions or lethal spells on a level even just approaching D&D's were to be included.
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I referenced D20 Modern because it provides some context around how successful an urban fantasy setting for D&D could (or could not) be:
D20 modern was a game, not a setting. It really isn't comparable.
D20 Modern had an urban fantasy sourcebook. Moreover, an urban fantasy sourcebook for D&D would need so much info and change so much about the regular rules from the PHB it probably might as well be a game/separate PHB by itself. I think it's pertinent enough to mention.
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Honestly, if there's a setting I'm surprised hasn't been officially done for D&D yet, it's modern fantasy (e.g. Dresden Files), as it's a major and popular subgenre of fantasy that D&D would probably be fine for.
That is one of the things that makes Call of Cthulhu so much fun, the modern fantasy aspect.
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In the spirit of not ignoring this post, I shall reply...
I think that they could easily change the setting to make it more friendly to today's society. Wether they will or not remains to be seen.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
I'd love a 5E Planescape... but not if it's bad. I think that goes for Dark Sun fans and Dark Sun too.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I ignored it because the likelihood of it happening or not is irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that I would like Dark Sun to be one of the "Classic" settings.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Sorry if it ruins the love, but I paid attention.
This happened as soon as WOTC owned both D&D and MtG. The D&D books started becoming very MTG oriented, which I thought was sad. Then D&D got MTG environments such as Ravnica. Now MTG is getting D&D characters.
Personally, as someone who has payed both for 25+ years, I prefer to keep them separate.
Third edition was M:tG-oriented? In what way?
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I just don’t want it to be true.
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I mean, I read it. I think you're not the only person thinking Dark Sun is unlikely, and the grounds you articulate are the same by those who've articulated before (me too). Just cuz no one's directly responding to your post doesn't mean it's being ignored ... it's actually discussed quite a bit on this forum.
The only way I see Dark Sun happening is if WotC for whatever reasons, thinks the brand is big enough that they can do products targeting age demographics. You sort of see that with some products targeting younger audiences, Dark Sun would have to be a step in a different direction, products for "mature audiences" as the entertainment biz, including TTRPGs, call it.
I don't see Hasbro going there though. Of course, I know Avernus had at least one scene of cannibalism and another of public urination in a wasteland, so you never know. I think for Dark Sun to be done to Dark Sun fans liking, it'd probably be better to grant the license for Dark Sun to Kobold Press (who've collaborated directly with Wizards before) and have it produced third party. The aesthetics that are clearly derived from Gor and other "leather" subcultures, which I think are integral to the look of the world, are a place I don't see Hasbro wanting Wizards publishing under the D&D brand. I think that's actually more the challenge than slavery (discussed with Drow and goblins off the top of my head) or cannibalism (feeding on humanoids is mentioned in Avernus and Rime of the Frost Maiden, again off the top of my head).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Honestly, if there's a setting I'm surprised hasn't been officially done for D&D yet, it's modern fantasy (e.g. Dresden Files), as it's a major and popular subgenre of fantasy that D&D would probably be fine for.
acquisitions incorporated kind of did this imo, but yeah, that would be cool
D20 Modern (including the Urban Arcana sourcebook for urban fantasy) did ok back in the 3E era, but wasn't a runaway success either. And I think the amount of work overhauling and balancing the classes would be almost as substantial as developing a new edition would be.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
D20 Modern was trying to bolt a new system onto a d20 frame. Which isn't a horrible idea, but isn't what I was talking about -- I was talking about just using D&D as is. Sure, firearms are a lot more powerful than standard D&D weapons so you might have to either tweak a lot of balance or just be extremely liberal with Resistant, but the latter is kind of in-genre.
100% total agreement. D&D history is rich with ideas and settings we don't need MTG and Planeswalkers shoehorned into the game.
Everything is shoehorned fantasy. Every single setting steals ideas and tropes and shares themes. To not want one and want the others, to me, is silly.
People can want what they want. They aren’t ignoring you, they just have their own desire. I’d personally love to see the dedication to Ravenloft in 5th that it got in AD&D 2nd, but it won’t happen. I’d love to see a remake of the Star Wars Saga system, but it won’t happen. Still want them both though.
I referenced D20 Modern because it provides some context around how successful an urban fantasy setting for D&D could (or could not) be: if that one's comparative lack of success is any indication, it wouldn't be surprising for WotC not to want to spend the resources necessary on a risky venture. I think you're underestimating the amount of work it'd be to adjust D&D to a modern setting, even keeping the system intact. There's a lot more to it than firearms alone. Current technology is in many ways comparable to high level magic - the internet, cloud data, hacking, satellites, modern warfare and law enforcement, medicine. If we're assuming a Dresden Files type setting, religion needs to be reworked massively, and a number of races need to be balanced out. Some classes become pointless or need to be reflavored from the ground up. And all of it needs to be balanced out and made plausible - including in the other direction as well, if the notion of magical healing, compulsions or lethal spells on a level even just approaching D&D's were to be included.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
D20 modern was a game, not a setting. It really isn't comparable.
D20 Modern had an urban fantasy sourcebook. Moreover, an urban fantasy sourcebook for D&D would need so much info and change so much about the regular rules from the PHB it probably might as well be a game/separate PHB by itself. I think it's pertinent enough to mention.
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No, the D&D novels set in Forgotten Realms, for example. The writing style was very different and read more like MTG
That is one of the things that makes Call of Cthulhu so much fun, the modern fantasy aspect.