I really can't follow all of this debate, but the focus on countering and dispelling for psionics is bizarre. It's as though you have this interesting idea for a concept (psionics) that has many possible interesting interpretations, but you choose to make the whole franchise hinge on knocking out one of the key pillars of balancing the game (cancellability). Why is this so central to that particular power fantasy?
To answer this, because it keeps getting thrown around erroneously:
As one of the strongest proponents of Not-Spellcasting Psychic Abilities in 5e, I don't give a rat if psychic powers are vulnerable to Counter, Dispel, Detect, whatever. No, it doesn't make any damn sense to me for magic to be able to counter psi (or for psi to be able to counter magic), but I also don't really need that to be the case. Never really have. I do find it aggravating that detractors of allowing psychic abilities in D&D claim that magic MUST be able to freely and effortlessly counter psychic abilities without any resource expenditure but psychic abilities cannot have any means whatsoever of interfering with magic, but even that doesn't really dealbreak for me so much as annoy me with its hypocrisy.
What I want is for psychic abilities to be different than spellcasting. People ask me why the Aberrant Mind isn't good enough to be a "psi" character. The answer is because it has no reason to be a psi character. It has no justification for being a psi character. It has no purpose in being a psi character. It's a spellcaster using the spellcasting rules to cast spells, and that means it will never, can never, be anything else and attempting to make it something else just means making it a dogshit terrible version of itself for no actual reason or justification.
It's why I tried to get people off the "flavor is free" bit pages ago. The Aberrant Mind's "flavor" doesn't matter, and where it does matter the subclass is ruined by its focus on grotesquery. Either one ignores the flavor - in which case the Aberrantr Mind sorcerer is no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer - or one hews to the flavor. In which case the Aberrant Mind is still no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer and is also gross and disgusting to boot.
What I want? A system that makes it plain psychic abilities are distinct from magic. if Magic people want to be able to counter Psi for free and claim ultradominance over psychic characters because the idea of mental abilities offends them, whatever. Don't really care, outside annoyance at the hypocrisy. Give me some Psi Die-powered classes, or make the Psionic Energy pool actually a fully fleshed out and viable mechanic. To Gehenna with spell slots and spellcasting and spellthis and spellthat and spelltheotherthing.
I would like to be able to play a psychic character that plays and feels like a psychic character, not like a Special Needs spellcaster in bad low-budget cosplay.
I do find it aggravating that detractors of allowing psychic abilities in D&D claim that magic MUST be able to freely and effortlessly counter psychic abilities without any resource expenditure but psychic abilities cannot have any means whatsoever of interfering with magic, but even that doesn't really dealbreak for me so much as annoy me with its hypocrisy.
As far as I know no one has proposed this Yurei.
What I've argued is that Psionics is literally just a another kind of magic and thus subject to the same limitations and effects.
I do find it aggravating that detractors of allowing psychic abilities in D&D claim that magic MUST be able to freely and effortlessly counter psychic abilities without any resource expenditure but psychic abilities cannot have any means whatsoever of interfering with magic, but even that doesn't really dealbreak for me so much as annoy me with its hypocrisy.
It's why I tried to get people off the "flavor is free" bit pages ago. The Aberrant Mind's "flavor" doesn't matter, and where it does matter the subclass is ruined by its focus on grotesquery. Either one ignores the flavor - in which case the Aberrantr Mind sorcerer is no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer - or one hews to the flavor. In which case the Aberrant Mind is still no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer and is also gross and disgusting to boot.
Clerics and Artificers can't ignore verbal and somatic components last time I checked. All Sorcerers, and especially Aberrant Minds, can. This is why it's hard for me to believe the psi proponents are arguing in good faith.
I really can't follow all of this debate, but the focus on countering and dispelling for psionics is bizarre. It's as though you have this interesting idea for a concept (psionics) that has many possible interesting interpretations, but you choose to make the whole franchise hinge on knocking out one of the key pillars of balancing the game (cancellability). Why is this so central to that particular power fantasy?
Why the assumption that there would be no means of cancelling ? It is like the fact that you can't douse normal fire in quite a few different ways, including using spells that specifically douse normal fires. But you can.
It is the naysayers that are insisting that unless it counts as magic and therefore can be blocked using the normal anti-magic options, it breaks the game.
Clerics and Artificers can't ignore verbal and somatic components last time I checked. All Sorcerers, and especially Aberrant Minds, can. This is why it's hard for me to believe the psi proponents are arguing in good faith.
I mean, my biggest concern with what she's proposing is a system that's fully divorced from the entire extent magic system because she doesn't like spell slots or the way D&D has worked for like, nearly 5 decades.
This combined with other statements and infferals they have made suggests to me that they're honestly better off finding another system to play around with but for whatever reason they're refusing to move on.
I really can't follow all of this debate, but the focus on countering and dispelling for psionics is bizarre. It's as though you have this interesting idea for a concept (psionics) that has many possible interesting interpretations, but you choose to make the whole franchise hinge on knocking out one of the key pillars of balancing the game (cancellability). Why is this so central to that particular power fantasy?
Why the assumption that there would be no means of cancelling ? It is like the fact that you can't douse normal fire in quite a few different ways, including using spells that specifically douse normal fires. But you can.
It is the naysayers that are insisting that unless it counts as magic and therefore can be blocked using the normal anti-magic options, it breaks the game.
No. My argument has been that creating a whole new power set that exists outside of the conventional confines of the established mechanics of the game is bad for the game and can only lead to disaster.
I do find it aggravating that detractors of allowing psychic abilities in D&D claim that magic MUST be able to freely and effortlessly counter psychic abilities without any resource expenditure but psychic abilities cannot have any means whatsoever of interfering with magic, but even that doesn't really dealbreak for me so much as annoy me with its hypocrisy.
It's why I tried to get people off the "flavor is free" bit pages ago. The Aberrant Mind's "flavor" doesn't matter, and where it does matter the subclass is ruined by its focus on grotesquery. Either one ignores the flavor - in which case the Aberrantr Mind sorcerer is no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer - or one hews to the flavor. In which case the Aberrant Mind is still no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer and is also gross and disgusting to boot.
Clerics and Artificers can't ignore verbal and somatic components last time I checked. All Sorcerers, and especially Aberrant Minds, can. This is why it's hard for me to believe the psi proponents are arguing in good faith.
You are the one going on about "Unless it is magic and thus counterable with anti-magic' while equating that with a complete lack of counters.
Sorcerers, incl. Aberrant Mind Sorcerers can only ignore verbal and somatic components while sorc points hold out. They otherwise cast in the same manner as clerics or artificers... "Hey, look, some of the time they can do some of what you want your class to be able to do. That's good enough, right?" does not go very far.
Sorcerers, incl. Aberrant Mind Sorcerers can only ignore verbal and somatic components while sorc points hold out.
Which is as long as they have spell slots to turn into sorcery points. "If you want to cast everything subtly you can't cast as many spells per day" is what we call "balance" (and as long as the aberrant mind is only casting psionic sorcery spells, he isn't even casting fewer spells per day -- you can convert a level X spell slot into X sorcery points and then use it to cast a level X spell).
So now the new goal post is it not only does it have to be Magic because of Beholders, but it also must use spell slots because of spell components. Am I getting this right?
It's also worth noting that we have examples of creatures throughout 5e that would be considered "psionic" like Gith, Mindflayers, Gem Dragons, Flumph and Aboleths and consistently their spellcasting is in spellcasting format as opposed to some new and confusing system.
Also (spoilers for mad mage)
Within undermountain there was a student of Halaster's who was obsessed with disproving the existance of magic and instead the existance of science which caused him to become a Lightning skull. Which is a Flameskull but with lightning. It also had a full gammit of powers that were described in game as magic despite how it came to be this way through pure scientific experimentation.
My point is that as soon as people can accept Psionics as a kind of magic as opposed to being a complete Iconoclasm to the very concept thereof we can get on with our lives.
Because ignoring components isn't "the core of psychic abilities". It's just spellcasting badly. Spellcasting, but ignoring the rules of spellcasting. Folks have fixated on the idea that what fans and proponents of psychic abilities want is just subtle spellcasting. No. That's still just spellcasting, and it still means classes like the Aberrant Mind have no reason, justification, or purpose for being a "psychic" character instead of yet another boring ho-hum every-village-has-twelve-of-them spellcaster.
Hell, if I were writing a system of psychic abilities for 5e, I'd consider giving psychic abilities Signs rather than "components". The psychic character doesn't need thirty pounds of penguin spleens, they don't need to bellow Magic Words loud enough people can hear them in the Underdark, and they don't need to do the Jazz Hands...but utilizing their power creates supernatural signs. Psychokinetic abilities might induce visible warping and shifting in the air around objects/targets being manipulated. Direct psychic damage and mental attacks might evoke ethereal chimes or ringing, or cause the attacker's veins to bulge or their eyes to shine with otherworldly light. Charm and coercive abilities honestly feel like they would carry a scent to me - something the uninitiated would just think is weird, but which is unmistakable to anyone who knows what to sniff for.
That could be a fun differentiator - rather than needing to produce nonsensical fake law-of-sympathy objects to power their abilities, psychic characters use their abilities and that usage induces supernatural signs in their vicinity. Difference seems largely semantic, but I'd argue not at all - there's a lot of interesting ground you could cover with the idea that psychic abilities cause supernatural signs. Stronger abilities manifest more severe signs, and the most potent psychic powers might start warping reality in more permanent and/or unfortunate ways. A bit like Wild Magic, but without the endless myriad dumb**** things that make Wild Magic utterly awful to deal with as both a player and a DM.
The important matter, however, is that psychic abilities are distinct and different from Magic, in a way that gives them a valid space, reason, and justification to exist. That gives a player a reason to want to play a psychic character, instead of the system and DM both punishing that player for their hubris in wanting to be something other than another boring basic spellcaster.
So now the new goal post is it not only does it have to be Magic because of Beholders, but it also must use spell slots because of spell components. Am I getting this right?
Wait. I am confused. Why can't WotC build on the dice system they created?
Listen, if you want to build something that is separate from spell slots Go for it. I think it would still need to be carefully balanced so that it doesn't wind up either way too strong or way too weak but I am not wholly opposed to the attempt at doing so.
But at the end of the day It needs to have magic as it's underlying principle in order for it to mesh with the extent mechanics of the game due to the tendency to balance encounters more and more at higher levels by making spell resistance (or straight up antimagic) a thing to curb the power of wizards. If say... a psychokinetic can just toss around disintegrates or other abilties that bypass this then it causes more problems in game design. Beyond that, there is no actual counterplay to psionics as a system (for reasons that I shouldn't have to state at this juncture) for either PCs or NPCs.
Realistically, for this to truly work you would need to build the entire game from the ground up with the existence of psionics as a consideration along side Magic , Martial and Skill focused character types which would require an entirely new edition which we aren't getting for at least several more years unless One goes over like Asbestos ski masks.
The important matter, however, is that psychic abilities are distinct and different from Magic, in a way that gives them a valid space, reason, and justification to exist.
The reality is, regardless of mechanics, you can't do this because spellcasters already stomped all over your niche before psychics even existed in the game. Settings that separate magic and psi do it by not letting magic do the things psi is supposed to be good at, and that ship sailed sometime back in the mid-1970s.
The important matter, however, is that psychic abilities are distinct and different from Magic, in a way that gives them a valid space, reason, and justification to exist.
The reality is, regardless of mechanics, you can't do this because spellcasters already stomped all over your niche before psychics even existed in the game.
I mean, this is kind of a crude way of saying it but Pantagruel666 isn't wrong; By the time the first attempts at psionics were made the spell schools were already a thing and several of them (illusion, enchantment and divination) were doing traditional "psychic" things while telekinesis was an upper tier spell leaving kinetics pretty much out in the cold.
It's also why again: The only way to really solve this problem is to have psionics be a part of the game while it is being developed as opposed to years and years later when it's going to fit in like an NFL linebacker at a Loli convention.
Sorcerers, incl. Aberrant Mind Sorcerers can only ignore verbal and somatic components while sorc points hold out. They otherwise cast in the same manner as clerics or artificers... "Hey, look, some of the time they can do some of what you want your class to be able to do. That's good enough, right?" does not go very far.
You know they can get more points right? By trading in spell slots? And therefore the advantage of having completely undetectable and uncounterable magic is offset by the disadvantage of having fewer uses per long rest? That's a thing called "game balance."
You are the one going on about "Unless it is magic and thus counterable with anti-magic' while equating that with a complete lack of counters.
So tell me what counters you had in mind then; I'll wait. I'll even link Vecna the Archlich again. What could he do to interfere/interact with your psion's abilities?
How exactly, do you contain a psionic without causing brain damage?
It's not like that problem doesn't already exist for sorcerers, and other than an antimagic shell, it has the same basic set of solutions: incapacitating effects like feeblemind or flesh to stone or polymorph.
I do find it aggravating that detractors of allowing psychic abilities in D&D claim that magic MUST be able to freely and effortlessly counter psychic abilities without any resource expenditure but psychic abilities cannot have any means whatsoever of interfering with magic, but even that doesn't really dealbreak for me so much as annoy me with its hypocrisy.
It's why I tried to get people off the "flavor is free" bit pages ago. The Aberrant Mind's "flavor" doesn't matter, and where it does matter the subclass is ruined by its focus on grotesquery. Either one ignores the flavor - in which case the Aberrantr Mind sorcerer is no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer - or one hews to the flavor. In which case the Aberrant Mind is still no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer and is also gross and disgusting to boot.
Clerics and Artificers can't ignore verbal and somatic components last time I checked. All Sorcerers, and especially Aberrant Minds, can. This is why it's hard for me to believe the psi proponents are arguing in good faith.
You are the one going on about "Unless it is magic and thus counterable with anti-magic' while equating that with a complete lack of counters.
Sorcerers, incl. Aberrant Mind Sorcerers can only ignore verbal and somatic components while sorc points hold out. They otherwise cast in the same manner as clerics or artificers... "Hey, look, some of the time they can do some of what you want your class to be able to do. That's good enough, right?" does not go very far.
I do find it aggravating that detractors of allowing psychic abilities in D&D claim that magic MUST be able to freely and effortlessly counter psychic abilities without any resource expenditure but psychic abilities cannot have any means whatsoever of interfering with magic, but even that doesn't really dealbreak for me so much as annoy me with its hypocrisy.
It's why I tried to get people off the "flavor is free" bit pages ago. The Aberrant Mind's "flavor" doesn't matter, and where it does matter the subclass is ruined by its focus on grotesquery. Either one ignores the flavor - in which case the Aberrantr Mind sorcerer is no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer - or one hews to the flavor. In which case the Aberrant Mind is still no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer and is also gross and disgusting to boot.
Clerics and Artificers can't ignore verbal and somatic components last time I checked. All Sorcerers, and especially Aberrant Minds, can. This is why it's hard for me to believe the psi proponents are arguing in good faith.
You are the one going on about "Unless it is magic and thus counterable with anti-magic' while equating that with a complete lack of counters.
Sorcerers, incl. Aberrant Mind Sorcerers can only ignore verbal and somatic components while sorc points hold out. They otherwise cast in the same manner as clerics or artificers... "Hey, look, some of the time they can do some of what you want your class to be able to do. That's good enough, right?" does not go very far.
But, because you can always gain more sorcery points by burning a spell, you’ll very rarely run out of sorc points.
You are the one going on about "Unless it is magic and thus counterable with anti-magic' while equating that with a complete lack of counters.
So tell me what counters you had in mind then; I'll wait. I'll even link Vecna the Archlich again. What could he do to interfere/interact with your psion's abilities?
Double-digit Int and Wis save bonuses, for starters. Also some relevant condition immunities. And five legendary saves.
Also, the fact that he's got significant defenses against spellcasters can mostly be attributed to the fact that high-level casters are unbalanced.
Or maybe just that he's supposed to be one of the greatest wizards of all time, so of course regular mortal casters can't play on his level. I would expect a martial opponent of the challenge level he's supposed to present to give the martials of the party a hard time. If psychic characters were added, an epic-level mind flayer foe would be well-prepared to kick their teeth in.
But he's got no special defense to a paladin with a bag full of smites. Or just a sorcerer who can use subtle spell. Honestly, even with his three counterspells a turn, he's going down fast without minions.
But yes, high-level opponents likely get magic defenses because high-level casters are so powerful. And psychic characters, were they separated from the spell system could just... not be that. Similar power level to martials is an option. So is more powerful, but still not on the level of a full-blown wizard. Very powerful within a narrow domain, less so outside it is tricky enough (mostly because games differ so much) that it's likely not the way to go.
You're really overselling the importance of this. And it can be magic and not be spells, like so many other class powers are, which again renders Vecna's super counterspell useless.
It's not like that problem doesn't already exist for sorcerers, and other than an antimagic shell, it has the same basic set of solutions: incapacitating effects like feeblemind or flesh to stone or polymorph.
So I guess every society without a 11+ level caster in their judicial system gets to kick rocks. Great worldbuilding you have there.
Oh hey, notice how polymorph turns off spellcasting but doesn't say anything about psionics? Or how psionics requires neither hands nor speech? Nice.
Double-digit Int and Wis save bonuses, for starters. Also some relevant condition immunities. And five legendary saves.
Ah, so the psion gets to bypass every other defense the CR 26 enemy has and he has to fall back on his ability scores and legendary saves. Very design, such game, wow.
But he's got no special defense to a paladin with a bag full of smites. Or just a sorcerer who can use subtle spell. Honestly, even with his three counterspells a turn, he's going down fast without minions.
1) The Paladin with their "bag full of smites" still needs to deal with Fell Rebuke, so they're only landing one if he's played smart.
2) Subtle spells can still be Globed or Dispelled. Man, if only the designers gave him those abilities.
To answer this, because it keeps getting thrown around erroneously:
As one of the strongest proponents of Not-Spellcasting Psychic Abilities in 5e, I don't give a rat if psychic powers are vulnerable to Counter, Dispel, Detect, whatever. No, it doesn't make any damn sense to me for magic to be able to counter psi (or for psi to be able to counter magic), but I also don't really need that to be the case. Never really have. I do find it aggravating that detractors of allowing psychic abilities in D&D claim that magic MUST be able to freely and effortlessly counter psychic abilities without any resource expenditure but psychic abilities cannot have any means whatsoever of interfering with magic, but even that doesn't really dealbreak for me so much as annoy me with its hypocrisy.
What I want is for psychic abilities to be different than spellcasting. People ask me why the Aberrant Mind isn't good enough to be a "psi" character. The answer is because it has no reason to be a psi character. It has no justification for being a psi character. It has no purpose in being a psi character. It's a spellcaster using the spellcasting rules to cast spells, and that means it will never, can never, be anything else and attempting to make it something else just means making it a dogshit terrible version of itself for no actual reason or justification.
It's why I tried to get people off the "flavor is free" bit pages ago. The Aberrant Mind's "flavor" doesn't matter, and where it does matter the subclass is ruined by its focus on grotesquery. Either one ignores the flavor - in which case the Aberrantr Mind sorcerer is no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer - or one hews to the flavor. In which case the Aberrant Mind is still no more "psychic" than a cleric or artificer and is also gross and disgusting to boot.
What I want? A system that makes it plain psychic abilities are distinct from magic. if Magic people want to be able to counter Psi for free and claim ultradominance over psychic characters because the idea of mental abilities offends them, whatever. Don't really care, outside annoyance at the hypocrisy. Give me some Psi Die-powered classes, or make the Psionic Energy pool actually a fully fleshed out and viable mechanic. To Gehenna with spell slots and spellcasting and spellthis and spellthat and spelltheotherthing.
I would like to be able to play a psychic character that plays and feels like a psychic character, not like a Special Needs spellcaster in bad low-budget cosplay.
Please do not contact or message me.
As far as I know no one has proposed this Yurei.
What I've argued is that Psionics is literally just a another kind of magic and thus subject to the same limitations and effects.
Who the heck said this and where???
Clerics and Artificers can't ignore verbal and somatic components last time I checked. All Sorcerers, and especially Aberrant Minds, can. This is why it's hard for me to believe the psi proponents are arguing in good faith.
Why the assumption that there would be no means of cancelling ? It is like the fact that you can't douse normal fire in quite a few different ways, including using spells that specifically douse normal fires. But you can.
It is the naysayers that are insisting that unless it counts as magic and therefore can be blocked using the normal anti-magic options, it breaks the game.
I mean, my biggest concern with what she's proposing is a system that's fully divorced from the entire extent magic system because she doesn't like spell slots or the way D&D has worked for like, nearly 5 decades.
This combined with other statements and infferals they have made suggests to me that they're honestly better off finding another system to play around with but for whatever reason they're refusing to move on.
No. My argument has been that creating a whole new power set that exists outside of the conventional confines of the established mechanics of the game is bad for the game and can only lead to disaster.
You are the one going on about "Unless it is magic and thus counterable with anti-magic' while equating that with a complete lack of counters.
Sorcerers, incl. Aberrant Mind Sorcerers can only ignore verbal and somatic components while sorc points hold out. They otherwise cast in the same manner as clerics or artificers... "Hey, look, some of the time they can do some of what you want your class to be able to do. That's good enough, right?" does not go very far.
Which is as long as they have spell slots to turn into sorcery points. "If you want to cast everything subtly you can't cast as many spells per day" is what we call "balance" (and as long as the aberrant mind is only casting psionic sorcery spells, he isn't even casting fewer spells per day -- you can convert a level X spell slot into X sorcery points and then use it to cast a level X spell).
So now the new goal post is it not only does it have to be Magic because of Beholders, but it also must use spell slots because of spell components. Am I getting this right?
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
It's also worth noting that we have examples of creatures throughout 5e that would be considered "psionic" like Gith, Mindflayers, Gem Dragons, Flumph and Aboleths and consistently their spellcasting is in spellcasting format as opposed to some new and confusing system.
Also (spoilers for mad mage)
Within undermountain there was a student of Halaster's who was obsessed with disproving the existance of magic and instead the existance of science which caused him to become a Lightning skull. Which is a Flameskull but with lightning. It also had a full gammit of powers that were described in game as magic despite how it came to be this way through pure scientific experimentation.
My point is that as soon as people can accept Psionics as a kind of magic as opposed to being a complete Iconoclasm to the very concept thereof we can get on with our lives.
Because ignoring components isn't "the core of psychic abilities". It's just spellcasting badly. Spellcasting, but ignoring the rules of spellcasting. Folks have fixated on the idea that what fans and proponents of psychic abilities want is just subtle spellcasting. No. That's still just spellcasting, and it still means classes like the Aberrant Mind have no reason, justification, or purpose for being a "psychic" character instead of yet another boring ho-hum every-village-has-twelve-of-them spellcaster.
Hell, if I were writing a system of psychic abilities for 5e, I'd consider giving psychic abilities Signs rather than "components". The psychic character doesn't need thirty pounds of penguin spleens, they don't need to bellow Magic Words loud enough people can hear them in the Underdark, and they don't need to do the Jazz Hands...but utilizing their power creates supernatural signs. Psychokinetic abilities might induce visible warping and shifting in the air around objects/targets being manipulated. Direct psychic damage and mental attacks might evoke ethereal chimes or ringing, or cause the attacker's veins to bulge or their eyes to shine with otherworldly light. Charm and coercive abilities honestly feel like they would carry a scent to me - something the uninitiated would just think is weird, but which is unmistakable to anyone who knows what to sniff for.
That could be a fun differentiator - rather than needing to produce nonsensical fake law-of-sympathy objects to power their abilities, psychic characters use their abilities and that usage induces supernatural signs in their vicinity. Difference seems largely semantic, but I'd argue not at all - there's a lot of interesting ground you could cover with the idea that psychic abilities cause supernatural signs. Stronger abilities manifest more severe signs, and the most potent psychic powers might start warping reality in more permanent and/or unfortunate ways. A bit like Wild Magic, but without the endless myriad dumb**** things that make Wild Magic utterly awful to deal with as both a player and a DM.
The important matter, however, is that psychic abilities are distinct and different from Magic, in a way that gives them a valid space, reason, and justification to exist. That gives a player a reason to want to play a psychic character, instead of the system and DM both punishing that player for their hubris in wanting to be something other than another boring basic spellcaster.
Please do not contact or message me.
Listen, if you want to build something that is separate from spell slots Go for it. I think it would still need to be carefully balanced so that it doesn't wind up either way too strong or way too weak but I am not wholly opposed to the attempt at doing so.
But at the end of the day It needs to have magic as it's underlying principle in order for it to mesh with the extent mechanics of the game due to the tendency to balance encounters more and more at higher levels by making spell resistance (or straight up antimagic) a thing to curb the power of wizards. If say... a psychokinetic can just toss around disintegrates or other abilties that bypass this then it causes more problems in game design. Beyond that, there is no actual counterplay to psionics as a system (for reasons that I shouldn't have to state at this juncture) for either PCs or NPCs.
Realistically, for this to truly work you would need to build the entire game from the ground up with the existence of psionics as a consideration along side Magic , Martial and Skill focused character types which would require an entirely new edition which we aren't getting for at least several more years unless One goes over like Asbestos ski masks.
The reality is, regardless of mechanics, you can't do this because spellcasters already stomped all over your niche before psychics even existed in the game. Settings that separate magic and psi do it by not letting magic do the things psi is supposed to be good at, and that ship sailed sometime back in the mid-1970s.
I mean, this is kind of a crude way of saying it but Pantagruel666 isn't wrong; By the time the first attempts at psionics were made the spell schools were already a thing and several of them (illusion, enchantment and divination) were doing traditional "psychic" things while telekinesis was an upper tier spell leaving kinetics pretty much out in the cold.
It's also why again: The only way to really solve this problem is to have psionics be a part of the game while it is being developed as opposed to years and years later when it's going to fit in like an NFL linebacker at a Loli convention.
You know they can get more points right? By trading in spell slots? And therefore the advantage of having completely undetectable and uncounterable magic is offset by the disadvantage of having fewer uses per long rest? That's a thing called "game balance."
So tell me what counters you had in mind then; I'll wait. I'll even link Vecna the Archlich again. What could he do to interfere/interact with your psion's abilities?
Yeah I'd be curious how someone goes about capturing and/or containing a psionic.
How exactly, do you contain a psionic without causing brain damage?
It's not like that problem doesn't already exist for sorcerers, and other than an antimagic shell, it has the same basic set of solutions: incapacitating effects like feeblemind or flesh to stone or polymorph.
But, because you can always gain more sorcery points by burning a spell, you’ll very rarely run out of sorc points.
Double-digit Int and Wis save bonuses, for starters. Also some relevant condition immunities. And five legendary saves.
Also, the fact that he's got significant defenses against spellcasters can mostly be attributed to the fact that high-level casters are unbalanced.
Or maybe just that he's supposed to be one of the greatest wizards of all time, so of course regular mortal casters can't play on his level. I would expect a martial opponent of the challenge level he's supposed to present to give the martials of the party a hard time. If psychic characters were added, an epic-level mind flayer foe would be well-prepared to kick their teeth in.
But he's got no special defense to a paladin with a bag full of smites. Or just a sorcerer who can use subtle spell. Honestly, even with his three counterspells a turn, he's going down fast without minions.
But yes, high-level opponents likely get magic defenses because high-level casters are so powerful. And psychic characters, were they separated from the spell system could just... not be that. Similar power level to martials is an option. So is more powerful, but still not on the level of a full-blown wizard. Very powerful within a narrow domain, less so outside it is tricky enough (mostly because games differ so much) that it's likely not the way to go.
You're really overselling the importance of this. And it can be magic and not be spells, like so many other class powers are, which again renders Vecna's super counterspell useless.
So I guess every society without a 11+ level caster in their judicial system gets to kick rocks. Great worldbuilding you have there.
Oh hey, notice how polymorph turns off spellcasting but doesn't say anything about psionics? Or how psionics requires neither hands nor speech? Nice.
Ah, so the psion gets to bypass every other defense the CR 26 enemy has and he has to fall back on his ability scores and legendary saves. Very design, such game, wow.
edit:
1) The Paladin with their "bag full of smites" still needs to deal with Fell Rebuke, so they're only landing one if he's played smart.
2) Subtle spells can still be Globed or Dispelled. Man, if only the designers gave him those abilities.