I've had encounters with long bow wielding enemies done at range. No, you can't have straight fight with them. That's the point of the tactic, either they harrass you from your objective or you find an alternate means to your objective or a way contend with the threat after the ambush engagement (usually involved attacking the assailants at rest).
As for "railroad" protests. Sometimes players have to mature their understanding of tactics. Tactics is always about controlling your opposition. I meant the folks who are all about historical accuracy when fighting manticores should be all about this.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Except that few GMs actually set up battlefields that big in the first place.
Eh. GMs that set up encounters with mounted archers arguably either provide a battleground spacious enough for those mounted archers to make proper use of their mounts, or they created a nonsense encounter. Might as well have the PCs run into flying opponents in an underground tunnel complex.
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I've been playing since 2nd Edition and it's just been uncommon for GMs to set up battlefields that were 300 feet across. Heck, it's been unusual for GMs to have room to set up battlefields that large. Especially ones that are completely open, featureless plains.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I've been playing since 2nd Edition and it's just been uncommon for GMs to set up battlefields that were 300 feet across. Heck, it's been unusual for GMs to have room to set up battlefields that large. Especially ones that are completely open, featureless plains.
Theatre of the Mind is as spacious as anyone might need. Alternatively, until opposing parties close to melee range the 5-ft square scale is not necessary.
I suspect, but do correct me if you had other experiences, that DMs unwilling to work on similar scale battlefields tended to avoid mounted archery and the like though.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I've been playing since 2nd Edition and it's just been uncommon for GMs to set up battlefields that were 300 feet across. Heck, it's been unusual for GMs to have room to set up battlefields that large. Especially ones that are completely open, featureless plains.
Theatre of the Mind is as spacious as anyone might need. Alternatively, until opposing parties close to melee range the 5-ft square scale is not necessary.
I suspect, but do correct me if you had other experiences, that DMs unwilling to work on similar scale battlefields tended to avoid mounted archery and the like though.
Right, and it's easy to combine ranges by saying that anything on the map is to scale, and anything on the table is something you're aware of, but is arbitrarily far away in that direction. (i.e. It is 'x' rounds from entering CQB)
I'm surprised nobody has brought up game balance yet. If you are making NPCs that are mounted and wielding longbows, they will permanently be out of range of any PCs that are not mounted or have Eldritch Blast with Eldritch Spear invocation. They will be able to move 60 ft. (the same amount most PCs can move with both movement and Dash), and shoot 150 ft. without disadvantage. So you need a Warlock, mounts, or another longbow with disadvantage.
If these are enemy NPCs, your players may feel, justifiably, that you are railroading them. If these are ally NPCs, they will likely be able to kill any enemies before the players even reach them. In order to make this balanced, I would suggest using the shortbow ranges while mounted. This takes into account the difficulty in shooting long range while mounted.
Sounds to me like an adventure hook with incentive! Let's not forget that a Longbow's short range is the same as Fireball. The Barbarian can pick up the Wizard and run him forward, practically giving the Wizard an extra dash.
In 5e long bow and short bow are short for long range+high(D8) damage vs shorter range + lower (D6) damage. Realistically/ historically all bows are springs the problem is they are made of wood and if you bend wood too much it breaks. The English longbow was a “self” bow - a single long piece of wood with a single curve. Because it was long you could bend it enough to get great power 100-200lb pull). Shorter self bows with that much pull break. By making the bow a recurve (3 bends/springs) you can shrink the size while maintaining the strength. The long bow with a center pull is really too big and unwieldy for horseback use - the Japanese solved this somewhat by using an off center pull but this lowers the overall force but it’s still more than a shorter bow typically. The mongols/tasters solved the problem by developing the composite bow - a short recurved bow with bone on the inside and sinew on the outside allowing you to bend it less while increasing the forces need to bend it so you got the power of a long bow in the size of a short bow and it was easy to use on horseback. If you want to get longbow range and damage from horseback historically and physically you were using a short composite bow. What you do in the game is up to you the rules certainly allow long bow use from horseback.
In 5e long bow and short bow are short for long range+high(D8) damage vs shorter range + lower (D6) damage. Realistically/ historically all bows are springs the problem is they are made of wood and if you bend wood too much it breaks. The English longbow was a “self” bow - a single long piece of wood with a single curve. Because it was long you could bend it enough to get great power 100-200lb pull). Shorter self bows with that much pull break. By making the bow a recurve (3 bends/springs) you can shrink the size while maintaining the strength. The long bow with a center pull is really too big and unwieldy for horseback use - the Japanese solved this somewhat by using an off center pull but this lowers the overall force but it’s still more than a shorter bow typically. The mongols/tasters solved the problem by developing the composite bow - a short recurved bow with bone on the inside and sinew on the outside allowing you to bend it less while increasing the forces need to bend it so you got the power of a long bow in the size of a short bow and it was easy to use on horseback. If you want to get longbow range and damage from horseback historically and physically you were using a short composite bow. What you do in the game is up to you the rules certainly allow long bow use from horseback.
The Japanese Yumi also has a much lower draw weight than normal bows at approx. 25-35lbs draw. Compared to the almost 30-50lb draw of a Shortbow and the 90-180lb draw of the Longbow, it's not terribly powerful in comparison to other bows.
In 5e long bow and short bow are short for long range+high(D8) damage vs shorter range + lower (D6) damage. Realistically/ historically all bows are springs the problem is they are made of wood and if you bend wood too much it breaks. The English longbow was a “self” bow - a single long piece of wood with a single curve. Because it was long you could bend it enough to get great power 100-200lb pull). Shorter self bows with that much pull break. By making the bow a recurve (3 bends/springs) you can shrink the size while maintaining the strength. The long bow with a center pull is really too big and unwieldy for horseback use - the Japanese solved this somewhat by using an off center pull but this lowers the overall force but it’s still more than a shorter bow typically. The mongols/tasters solved the problem by developing the composite bow - a short recurved bow with bone on the inside and sinew on the outside allowing you to bend it less while increasing the forces need to bend it so you got the power of a long bow in the size of a short bow and it was easy to use on horseback. If you want to get longbow range and damage from horseback historically and physically you were using a short composite bow. What you do in the game is up to you the rules certainly allow long bow use from horseback.
The Japanese Yumi also has a much lower draw weight than normal bows at approx. 25-35lbs draw. Compared to the almost 30-50lb draw of a Shortbow and the 90-180lb draw of the Longbow, it's not terribly powerful in comparison to other bows.
Keep in mind that a kid’s “toy bow” (4-5 foot long fiberglass recurve “real” bow) has a draw weight of 20 lbs. anything under about 75 lbs is for target shooting, 75 to 125 is normal “hunting” bow strength. A 35 lb Yumi’s arrow would bounce off almost any armour including bone/horn studded and is essentially useless in combat.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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I've had encounters with long bow wielding enemies done at range. No, you can't have straight fight with them. That's the point of the tactic, either they harrass you from your objective or you find an alternate means to your objective or a way contend with the threat after the ambush engagement (usually involved attacking the assailants at rest).
As for "railroad" protests. Sometimes players have to mature their understanding of tactics. Tactics is always about controlling your opposition. I meant the folks who are all about historical accuracy when fighting manticores should be all about this.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Eh. GMs that set up encounters with mounted archers arguably either provide a battleground spacious enough for those mounted archers to make proper use of their mounts, or they created a nonsense encounter. Might as well have the PCs run into flying opponents in an underground tunnel complex.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I've been playing since 2nd Edition and it's just been uncommon for GMs to set up battlefields that were 300 feet across. Heck, it's been unusual for GMs to have room to set up battlefields that large. Especially ones that are completely open, featureless plains.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Theatre of the Mind is as spacious as anyone might need. Alternatively, until opposing parties close to melee range the 5-ft square scale is not necessary.
I suspect, but do correct me if you had other experiences, that DMs unwilling to work on similar scale battlefields tended to avoid mounted archery and the like though.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Right, and it's easy to combine ranges by saying that anything on the map is to scale, and anything on the table is something you're aware of, but is arbitrarily far away in that direction. (i.e. It is 'x' rounds from entering CQB)
Yes for the cool factor, maybe disadvantage? *maybe*
Sounds to me like an adventure hook with incentive! Let's not forget that a Longbow's short range is the same as Fireball. The Barbarian can pick up the Wizard and run him forward, practically giving the Wizard an extra dash.
In 5e long bow and short bow are short for long range+high(D8) damage vs shorter range + lower (D6) damage. Realistically/ historically all bows are springs the problem is they are made of wood and if you bend wood too much it breaks. The English longbow was a “self” bow - a single long piece of wood with a single curve. Because it was long you could bend it enough to get great power 100-200lb pull). Shorter self bows with that much pull break. By making the bow a recurve (3 bends/springs) you can shrink the size while maintaining the strength. The long bow with a center pull is really too big and unwieldy for horseback use - the Japanese solved this somewhat by using an off center pull but this lowers the overall force but it’s still more than a shorter bow typically. The mongols/tasters solved the problem by developing the composite bow - a short recurved bow with bone on the inside and sinew on the outside allowing you to bend it less while increasing the forces need to bend it so you got the power of a long bow in the size of a short bow and it was easy to use on horseback. If you want to get longbow range and damage from horseback historically and physically you were using a short composite bow. What you do in the game is up to you the rules certainly allow long bow use from horseback.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
The Japanese Yumi also has a much lower draw weight than normal bows at approx. 25-35lbs draw. Compared to the almost 30-50lb draw of a Shortbow and the 90-180lb draw of the Longbow, it's not terribly powerful in comparison to other bows.
Keep in mind that a kid’s “toy bow” (4-5 foot long fiberglass recurve “real” bow) has a draw weight of 20 lbs. anything under about 75 lbs is for target shooting, 75 to 125 is normal “hunting” bow strength. A 35 lb Yumi’s arrow would bounce off almost any armour including bone/horn studded and is essentially useless in combat.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.