I'm a new DM and my players have stumbled upon a casino that uses slaves for entertainment, gladiator fights, and service folk. Needless to say my players are not cool with this setup. They have made contact with the underground freedom fighters working to free the slaves at the casino and get rid of the owner. My plan is that they meet another of the freedom fighters (FF) and she brings them in on her plan to destroy the casino and free the slaves. (this is going to save me cause my players wanted to just burn the thing to the ground, lol) The FF is head of the mining guild and they have been tunnelling under the casino and strategically placing supports that when removed the casino will collapse into the mine destroying it. They need to get the slaves out before they do this. So as cover there is a huge prize fight in the casino, a tournament really, and while all the owners are there watching and the rest of the casino is shut down they will sneak out the slaves.
My problem is i'm not sure how to time everything, as they will most likely split the party for a group above in the casino and then the other below helping with the escape. How do you balance the action with one group and then the other?
I am planning to throw some monkey wrenches in there, most fights will be 2 min in the tournament but I was going to throw in at least one with a TKO in like 5 secs so it screws with how much time they get to have cover.
I'm trying to also think of obstacles that the escape team will encounter too, and could use a few ideas.
Some things that might help coordinate so your party can stay together...
Sending stones - so the FF and your party can communicate Spells to hide things, like illusions or darkness. I am picturing an arena full of people watching fights, and you need ways to keep them from realizing that the slaves are being taken out of the arena.
Some hindrances: Slaves that just won may be taken back and shackled again, or be guarded, or be getting treatment for wounds. How to get them out? Impersonate the guards? Kill the guards? Kill the cleric doing the healing? Slaves that lost are, presumably, dead. What do you do with those? How do you deal with any spectators and their abilities? Are their spellcasters in the crowd? Fighters?
I'm a new DM and my players have stumbled upon a casino that uses slaves for entertainment, gladiator fights, and service folk. Needless to say my players are not cool with this setup. They have made contact with the underground freedom fighters working to free the slaves at the casino and get rid of the owner. My plan is that they meet another of the freedom fighters (FF) and she brings them in on her plan to destroy the casino and free the slaves. (this is going to save me cause my players wanted to just burn the thing to the ground, lol) The FF is head of the mining guild and they have been tunnelling under the casino and strategically placing supports that when removed the casino will collapse into the mine destroying it. They need to get the slaves out before they do this. So as cover there is a huge prize fight in the casino, a tournament really, and while all the owners are there watching and the rest of the casino is shut down they will sneak out the slaves.
My problem is i'm not sure how to time everything, as they will most likely split the party for a group above in the casino and then the other below helping with the escape. How do you balance the action with one group and then the other?
I am planning to throw some monkey wrenches in there, most fights will be 2 min in the tournament but I was going to throw in at least one with a TKO in like 5 secs so it screws with how much time they get to have cover.
I'm trying to also think of obstacles that the escape team will encounter too, and could use a few ideas.
Of course the stock advice is, "Don't split the party." But your plot sounds really cool, so if that's how you want to do it maybe it will work for your game. You could consider if there's a way for the two branches of the plot to occur in sequence instead of simultaneously, though. That way the whole party could stick around for the whole adventure. You don't really want to train your party to see splitting the party as the solution in any situation, or one day they'll split the party in a part of your dungeon they weren't supposed to, and all your encounters will devastate them.
I ran a similar plot line once, although the party didn't bite on all the plot hooks and ended up never freeing the slaves. My party was going to escape through underground lava tunnels. Yours is also underground, so you could employ similar puzzle-maze-like obstacles. Different points in the dungeon were able to control the flow of the lava, which would sometimes let them ride rafts of hardened lava, other times would flood a passageway.
If you didn't want to use lava, you could just use water in the sewers under the casino. If you need the players not to use swimming as a way to bypass your puzzle maze, then fill the water with deadly creatures that attack if you jump in but let you go if you get out of the water.
Thank great ideas. Thankfully in the scenario I’m planning slaves will not be part of the exhibition fights going on at this time, but a “surprise” round with a few slaves in the last fight might add a nice monkey wrench.
I’d really resist splitting the party. Just practically, you end up with half the players twiddling their thumbs while the other group is doing something. And you basically need to design two sets of encounters, which kind of depend on each other. (And what happens if one half of the party succeeds and the other fails. Then it’s like actually everyone fails.) I’d suggest having the freedom fighters say they have enough people to do one job or the other, but not both. Or maybe they don’t quite trust the party enough to send their people along, and say they are willing to do, but the party needs to do the other.
Then you only need one set of encounters, and since everyone will be involved, you can make them more interesting.
So this sounds less a heist or an escape than something along the lines of a coup or jail break rescue mission. Historically, IRL these sorts of raids get messy, but D&D allows a level of heroic realism so it's up to you how plausible the PCs getting away with the scheme goes.
That said, a lot of "heist" techniques, especially before everything goes down are useful for these sort of raids. If you got the time my favorite insight into running heists is this video:
As for the "never split the party" talk, same presenter giving some thoughts on how to keep the party in order when it's working a multiprong scheme (and a closing anecdote on how ridiculous "never split the party" orthodoxy can get:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Unless it really matters that one group can't know what's happening with the other one, I wouldn't worry too much about splitting the party. I know it's generally a no-no, but I think in this case it doesn't have to be a big deal - they're working towards the same goal, even if they are in different locations. There's going to be tension while the spotlight is focused on the other group, because everyone knows that what happens there will have a pretty direct impact on them as well. You could split up the group in real life too if you really wanted, I think that could be fun but isn't really needed. Just switch between the scenes frequently and have something ready to happen each time you go to another group; switching for no real reason does give the impression the group you went to for essentially nothing isn't getting as much attention as the other one. One thing I'd suggest is to have the complication happen right before you switch instead of after, that way while you're focusing on group A's troubles group B gets to think and plan about what to do about their most recent mishap and vice versa.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Unless it really matters that one group can't know what's happening with the other one, I wouldn't worry too much about splitting the party. I know it's generally a no-no, but I think in this case it doesn't have to be a big deal - they're working towards the same goal, even if they are in different locations. There's going to be tension while the spotlight is focused on the other group, because everyone knows that what happens there will have a pretty direct impact on them as well. You could split up the group in real life too if you really wanted, I think that could be fun but isn't really needed. Just switch between the scenes frequently and have something ready to happen each time you go to another group; switching for no real reason does give the impression the group you went to for essentially nothing isn't getting as much attention as the other one. One thing I'd suggest is to have the complication happen right before you switch instead of after, that way while you're focusing on group A's troubles group B gets to think and plan about what to do about their most recent mishap and vice versa.
You can run both things simultaneously, as one big fight in 2 places. If the plan is that the party splits with the various groups having objectives, then each round, each party works towards those. if they succeed, the plan could be to meet at a certain place. If one party fails, the other may have to take over that objective and rescue the other party. Could be fun.
Unless it really matters that one group can't know what's happening with the other one, I wouldn't worry too much about splitting the party. I know it's generally a no-no, but I think in this case it doesn't have to be a big deal - they're working towards the same goal, even if they are in different locations. There's going to be tension while the spotlight is focused on the other group, because everyone knows that what happens there will have a pretty direct impact on them as well. You could split up the group in real life too if you really wanted, I think that could be fun but isn't really needed. Just switch between the scenes frequently and have something ready to happen each time you go to another group; switching for no real reason does give the impression the group you went to for essentially nothing isn't getting as much attention as the other one. One thing I'd suggest is to have the complication happen right before you switch instead of after, that way while you're focusing on group A's troubles group B gets to think and plan about what to do about their most recent mishap and vice versa.
You can run both things simultaneously, as one big fight in 2 places. If the plan is that the party splits with the various groups having objectives, then each round, each party works towards those. if they succeed, the plan could be to meet at a certain place. If one party fails, the other may have to take over that objective and rescue the other party. Could be fun.
Give the two halves some interlaced objectives they have to coordinate on. Like one team has to shut down the security system and distract the guards. The other team has to rig a time bomb and escape with the hostage. Give them a pair of sending stones and opportunities to reconvene to discuss, or close enough for Message distance at least.
One thing is I go pretty lenient on "metagaming" by recommending strategies to the team you're not on. Everybody wants to participate in solving the fun puzzle, and it's frustrating when you can't for in-game reasons. I like to imply that there are fairly plausible ways you could have communicated that information. Like maybe you could have discussed strategies beforehand. Or you have some form of telepathic communication. Or, "I just had a really good idea for what your character would do in this situation."
Splitting the party when the characters are actually working in concert (as one does in a heist or complex venture) is the exact opposite of the character behavior that made "never split the party" a thing. In concert is key (which I think lends to pavillionaire's lenience on meta gaming, the characters likely worked this thing through their heads collectively a number of times, speculating contingencies and the like), in Delta Green operations are called "operas" ... everyone has a part in it, and if things get weird or go south, it ain't over till, well, you know.
Splitting the party when the characters are actually working in concert (as one does in a heist or complex venture) is the exact opposite of the character behavior that made "never split the party" a thing. In concert is key (which I think lends to pavillionaire's lenience on meta gaming, the characters likely worked this thing through their heads collectively a number of times, speculating contingencies and the like), in Delta Green operations are called "operas" ... everyone has a part in it, and if things get weird or go south, it ain't over till, well, you know.
I guess it's called that because they're working in "concert".
Splitting the party when the characters are actually working in concert (as one does in a heist or complex venture) is the exact opposite of the character behavior that made "never split the party" a thing. In concert is key (which I think lends to pavillionaire's lenience on meta gaming, the characters likely worked this thing through their heads collectively a number of times, speculating contingencies and the like), in Delta Green operations are called "operas" ... everyone has a part in it, and if things get weird or go south, it ain't over till, well, you know.
I guess it's called that because they're working in "concert".
Partly, yeah and that's why I led with working in concert. It's also sort of deniability. Delta Green operatives assume someone is trying to listen in at all times (the default assumption of Delta Green is the members are technically members of criminal/treasonous conspiracy), and somehow presuming all these federal agents and special warfare types at some developed an interest in becoming patrons of the arts. I sorta want to do the Kurt Russell Executive Decision thing where one character actually shows up to their otherwise battled dressed party in a tuxedo and has to play through the Opera in it.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
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I'm a new DM and my players have stumbled upon a casino that uses slaves for entertainment, gladiator fights, and service folk. Needless to say my players are not cool with this setup. They have made contact with the underground freedom fighters working to free the slaves at the casino and get rid of the owner. My plan is that they meet another of the freedom fighters (FF) and she brings them in on her plan to destroy the casino and free the slaves. (this is going to save me cause my players wanted to just burn the thing to the ground, lol) The FF is head of the mining guild and they have been tunnelling under the casino and strategically placing supports that when removed the casino will collapse into the mine destroying it. They need to get the slaves out before they do this. So as cover there is a huge prize fight in the casino, a tournament really, and while all the owners are there watching and the rest of the casino is shut down they will sneak out the slaves.
My problem is i'm not sure how to time everything, as they will most likely split the party for a group above in the casino and then the other below helping with the escape. How do you balance the action with one group and then the other?
I am planning to throw some monkey wrenches in there, most fights will be 2 min in the tournament but I was going to throw in at least one with a TKO in like 5 secs so it screws with how much time they get to have cover.
I'm trying to also think of obstacles that the escape team will encounter too, and could use a few ideas.
Some things that might help coordinate so your party can stay together...
Sending stones - so the FF and your party can communicate
Spells to hide things, like illusions or darkness. I am picturing an arena full of people watching fights, and you need ways to keep them from realizing that the slaves are being taken out of the arena.
Some hindrances:
Slaves that just won may be taken back and shackled again, or be guarded, or be getting treatment for wounds. How to get them out? Impersonate the guards? Kill the guards? Kill the cleric doing the healing?
Slaves that lost are, presumably, dead. What do you do with those?
How do you deal with any spectators and their abilities? Are their spellcasters in the crowd? Fighters?
Of course the stock advice is, "Don't split the party." But your plot sounds really cool, so if that's how you want to do it maybe it will work for your game. You could consider if there's a way for the two branches of the plot to occur in sequence instead of simultaneously, though. That way the whole party could stick around for the whole adventure. You don't really want to train your party to see splitting the party as the solution in any situation, or one day they'll split the party in a part of your dungeon they weren't supposed to, and all your encounters will devastate them.
I ran a similar plot line once, although the party didn't bite on all the plot hooks and ended up never freeing the slaves. My party was going to escape through underground lava tunnels. Yours is also underground, so you could employ similar puzzle-maze-like obstacles. Different points in the dungeon were able to control the flow of the lava, which would sometimes let them ride rafts of hardened lava, other times would flood a passageway.
If you didn't want to use lava, you could just use water in the sewers under the casino. If you need the players not to use swimming as a way to bypass your puzzle maze, then fill the water with deadly creatures that attack if you jump in but let you go if you get out of the water.
Thank great ideas. Thankfully in the scenario I’m planning slaves will not be part of the exhibition fights going on at this time, but a “surprise” round with a few slaves in the last fight might add a nice monkey wrench.
and Sending stones are a perfect idea.
thank you
I’d really resist splitting the party. Just practically, you end up with half the players twiddling their thumbs while the other group is doing something. And you basically need to design two sets of encounters, which kind of depend on each other. (And what happens if one half of the party succeeds and the other fails. Then it’s like actually everyone fails.) I’d suggest having the freedom fighters say they have enough people to do one job or the other, but not both. Or maybe they don’t quite trust the party enough to send their people along, and say they are willing to do, but the party needs to do the other.
Then you only need one set of encounters, and since everyone will be involved, you can make them more interesting.
So this sounds less a heist or an escape than something along the lines of a coup or jail break rescue mission. Historically, IRL these sorts of raids get messy, but D&D allows a level of heroic realism so it's up to you how plausible the PCs getting away with the scheme goes.
That said, a lot of "heist" techniques, especially before everything goes down are useful for these sort of raids. If you got the time my favorite insight into running heists is this video:
As for the "never split the party" talk, same presenter giving some thoughts on how to keep the party in order when it's working a multiprong scheme (and a closing anecdote on how ridiculous "never split the party" orthodoxy can get:
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Unless it really matters that one group can't know what's happening with the other one, I wouldn't worry too much about splitting the party. I know it's generally a no-no, but I think in this case it doesn't have to be a big deal - they're working towards the same goal, even if they are in different locations. There's going to be tension while the spotlight is focused on the other group, because everyone knows that what happens there will have a pretty direct impact on them as well. You could split up the group in real life too if you really wanted, I think that could be fun but isn't really needed. Just switch between the scenes frequently and have something ready to happen each time you go to another group; switching for no real reason does give the impression the group you went to for essentially nothing isn't getting as much attention as the other one. One thing I'd suggest is to have the complication happen right before you switch instead of after, that way while you're focusing on group A's troubles group B gets to think and plan about what to do about their most recent mishap and vice versa.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You can run both things simultaneously, as one big fight in 2 places. If the plan is that the party splits with the various groups having objectives, then each round, each party works towards those. if they succeed, the plan could be to meet at a certain place. If one party fails, the other may have to take over that objective and rescue the other party. Could be fun.
Give the two halves some interlaced objectives they have to coordinate on. Like one team has to shut down the security system and distract the guards. The other team has to rig a time bomb and escape with the hostage. Give them a pair of sending stones and opportunities to reconvene to discuss, or close enough for Message distance at least.
One thing is I go pretty lenient on "metagaming" by recommending strategies to the team you're not on. Everybody wants to participate in solving the fun puzzle, and it's frustrating when you can't for in-game reasons. I like to imply that there are fairly plausible ways you could have communicated that information. Like maybe you could have discussed strategies beforehand. Or you have some form of telepathic communication. Or, "I just had a really good idea for what your character would do in this situation."
Splitting the party when the characters are actually working in concert (as one does in a heist or complex venture) is the exact opposite of the character behavior that made "never split the party" a thing. In concert is key (which I think lends to pavillionaire's lenience on meta gaming, the characters likely worked this thing through their heads collectively a number of times, speculating contingencies and the like), in Delta Green operations are called "operas" ... everyone has a part in it, and if things get weird or go south, it ain't over till, well, you know.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I guess it's called that because they're working in "concert".
Partly, yeah and that's why I led with working in concert. It's also sort of deniability. Delta Green operatives assume someone is trying to listen in at all times (the default assumption of Delta Green is the members are technically members of criminal/treasonous conspiracy), and somehow presuming all these federal agents and special warfare types at some developed an interest in becoming patrons of the arts. I sorta want to do the Kurt Russell Executive Decision thing where one character actually shows up to their otherwise battled dressed party in a tuxedo and has to play through the Opera in it.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.