I'm running my first game (Dragon of Icespire Peak), and I'm noticing that the funds supplied don't really match costs. Specifically, if someone wanted to play a plate armour character, they'd have to spend 1,500GP. However, each quest is only paying a couple of hundred, so even if the party saved up, nearly all their funds would only pay for one character and only then toward the end of the campaign (it runs 1-6). I've been giving out rewards when prompted by the adventure book.
That doesn't seem right to me, since other characters start off with the right equipment (even if basic and potentially upgradable) for their archetype. This is my first game of D&D so maybe I'm misunderstanding something, am I supposed to be handing out extra goodies for them to sell or something? Or is it intended that some characters can't really get the archetypal image of the characters (eg knights) unless they play the campaigns that run to 20? Or is it just something to so with this particular campaign?
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It's worth noting that plate armour isnt the only form of heavy armour. it is the best normal common item version, and the impact of the additional armour class *is* something to strive for, even trade a magical item for perhaps.
Hmm, even the magical artifacts are low value - fetching 50gp. The party has sold any and items that aren't directly useful, and have about 250GP total, and have done three of ten quests plus, to keep things simple while we learn the rules, we're not paying for upkeep (food, lodgings, etc). Obviously, I'm not expecting them to be able to outfit an entire party of five with plate armour just yet, or even one member, it just seems a bit odd that they may not even be able to earn one set within the whole campaign.
But I take it from your answer that this normal and at least in the low level campaigns, such items are just expected to not be available. Thanks!
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That doesn't seem right to me, since other characters start off with the right equipment (even if basic and potentially upgradable) for their archetype.
Full plate is not the only "right" armor for knight and similar archetypes. Chain mail is entirely suitable and gets a character's AC up to 16, 18 with a shield. That's perfectly in line with what other characters can have all throughout tier 1 (lvl 1-4) and early on in tier 2. Full plate may not be magical, but it's considered the kind of armor not everyone has access to.
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Agreed. Also, 20 AC is more or less the most that can be expected without magic and the limit most of the game is built around. For better or worse, players are absolutely not expected to start at that point.
Also worth pointing out that a lot of fantasy depictions of plate are actually half plate.
Pangurjan hit the nail on the head. There is no reason why a low-level character should have access to such an expensive item as full plate. Especially since character who are proficient in heavy armour already start with chainmail which gives a very good AC of 16 which should be enough to carry them all the way through level 6.
Most classes have some way they increase in power by experience and leveling and another way they increase in power by spending gold.
Wizards have to spend gold for ink to learn new spells. Some spells for all spellcasters require expensive spell components.
Martial classes need magic weapons (usually found, not bought) to overcome resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage, which is common in high-level monsters. And if they want to max out their AC, they need 1500 gp for plate armor. But splint is only 1 AC less and only costs 200 gp.
While the image of the late midieval knight in full plate is a wonderful image it was mostly the wealthy that could actually afford a suit of tailored steel armor even then. Half plate and lower grades of armor were much more the norm - especially for a nonkight warrior. Even if a knight he would probably start with chain or splint and try to earn the wealth to afford a set of full plate. For most of the midieval period (roughly 1000 AD to 1650 AD) chainmail or a combo of breast plate and chain with a shield was the best Europeans could do. The Japanese lamellar armor is a type of splint and really the banded armor of Roman legionaries is as well although often (including earlier editions of D&D) considered a separate type. DnD does it’s best to accommodate the many types of armor used in history into the game with its AC rankings establishing a scale of development for characters as the advance levels so no class really starts out with its “best/“iconic” armor.
For most of the midieval period (roughly 1000 AD to 1650 AD) chainmail or a combo of breast plate and chain with a shield was the best Europeans could do.
Well, for about half that period chainmail and shield was the only thing Europeans could do with. On the account that breastplates weren't really around until about 1300. You did have what would count as splint and a few "plate" details (elbow and knee cups). And of course helmets is a big thing in war. It was probably the most common piece of protection if we look at findings and depictions.
Well you did the DnD light and medium armors - things like studded leather and cuir boulli but yeah a helmet and shield were it for peasant levees especially.
I think it is not expected for players to get plate until around tier 2 because light armor wearers also increase there AC as the game goes on. Consider a heavy armor strength based fighter with a dex based rogue each starting with 16 in their main stat and not using shields (which would just add 2 to all the numbers)
At level 1 the fighter opts for chain mail and has an AC of 16 while the rogue has an AC of 14
The differential in AC is reduced to 2 very quickly however as after a short time the rogue can get studded leather to up his AC to 15
When they time they get to level 4 the rogue putting their ASI in DEX will increase their AC to 16 but by this time the strength fighter should be able to afford splint to get their AC to 17.
At level 8 the dex based fighter could max out Dex for AC 17 but again you would expect the fighter to have been able to afford plate at this point for AC18. Any further improvments in AC are due ot magic items.
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I'm running my first game (Dragon of Icespire Peak), and I'm noticing that the funds supplied don't really match costs. Specifically, if someone wanted to play a plate armour character, they'd have to spend 1,500GP. However, each quest is only paying a couple of hundred, so even if the party saved up, nearly all their funds would only pay for one character and only then toward the end of the campaign (it runs 1-6). I've been giving out rewards when prompted by the adventure book.
That doesn't seem right to me, since other characters start off with the right equipment (even if basic and potentially upgradable) for their archetype. This is my first game of D&D so maybe I'm misunderstanding something, am I supposed to be handing out extra goodies for them to sell or something? Or is it intended that some characters can't really get the archetypal image of the characters (eg knights) unless they play the campaigns that run to 20? Or is it just something to so with this particular campaign?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It's worth noting that plate armour isnt the only form of heavy armour. it is the best normal common item version, and the impact of the additional armour class *is* something to strive for, even trade a magical item for perhaps.
Just a thought
Hmm, even the magical artifacts are low value - fetching 50gp. The party has sold any and items that aren't directly useful, and have about 250GP total, and have done three of ten quests plus, to keep things simple while we learn the rules, we're not paying for upkeep (food, lodgings, etc). Obviously, I'm not expecting them to be able to outfit an entire party of five with plate armour just yet, or even one member, it just seems a bit odd that they may not even be able to earn one set within the whole campaign.
But I take it from your answer that this normal and at least in the low level campaigns, such items are just expected to not be available. Thanks!
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Sane Magical Prices Guide
<Insert clever signature here>
Full plate is not the only "right" armor for knight and similar archetypes. Chain mail is entirely suitable and gets a character's AC up to 16, 18 with a shield. That's perfectly in line with what other characters can have all throughout tier 1 (lvl 1-4) and early on in tier 2. Full plate may not be magical, but it's considered the kind of armor not everyone has access to.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Agreed. Also, 20 AC is more or less the most that can be expected without magic and the limit most of the game is built around. For better or worse, players are absolutely not expected to start at that point.
Also worth pointing out that a lot of fantasy depictions of plate are actually half plate.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Pangurjan hit the nail on the head. There is no reason why a low-level character should have access to such an expensive item as full plate. Especially since character who are proficient in heavy armour already start with chainmail which gives a very good AC of 16 which should be enough to carry them all the way through level 6.
Most classes have some way they increase in power by experience and leveling and another way they increase in power by spending gold.
Wizards have to spend gold for ink to learn new spells. Some spells for all spellcasters require expensive spell components.
Martial classes need magic weapons (usually found, not bought) to overcome resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage, which is common in high-level monsters. And if they want to max out their AC, they need 1500 gp for plate armor. But splint is only 1 AC less and only costs 200 gp.
While the image of the late midieval knight in full plate is a wonderful image it was mostly the wealthy that could actually afford a suit of tailored steel armor even then. Half plate and lower grades of armor were much more the norm - especially for a nonkight warrior. Even if a knight he would probably start with chain or splint and try to earn the wealth to afford a set of full plate. For most of the midieval period (roughly 1000 AD to 1650 AD) chainmail or a combo of breast plate and chain with a shield was the best Europeans could do. The Japanese lamellar armor is a type of splint and really the banded armor of Roman legionaries is as well although often (including earlier editions of D&D) considered a separate type. DnD does it’s best to accommodate the many types of armor used in history into the game with its AC rankings establishing a scale of development for characters as the advance levels so no class really starts out with its “best/“iconic” armor.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Well, for about half that period chainmail and shield was the only thing Europeans could do with. On the account that breastplates weren't really around until about 1300. You did have what would count as splint and a few "plate" details (elbow and knee cups). And of course helmets is a big thing in war. It was probably the most common piece of protection if we look at findings and depictions.
Well you did the DnD light and medium armors - things like studded leather and cuir boulli but yeah a helmet and shield were it for peasant levees especially.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I think it is not expected for players to get plate until around tier 2 because light armor wearers also increase there AC as the game goes on. Consider a heavy armor strength based fighter with a dex based rogue each starting with 16 in their main stat and not using shields (which would just add 2 to all the numbers)
At level 1 the fighter opts for chain mail and has an AC of 16 while the rogue has an AC of 14
The differential in AC is reduced to 2 very quickly however as after a short time the rogue can get studded leather to up his AC to 15
When they time they get to level 4 the rogue putting their ASI in DEX will increase their AC to 16 but by this time the strength fighter should be able to afford splint to get their AC to 17.
At level 8 the dex based fighter could max out Dex for AC 17 but again you would expect the fighter to have been able to afford plate at this point for AC18. Any further improvments in AC are due ot magic items.