Is there a spot where DMs can get reviews or I can leave a review for a DM so that future players can see that I enjoyed their game and give my thoughts about the game and DM's style?
The short answer is, you don't know until you play with them if the DM is a good fit for you or not. I have had people describe things on here that they did as a DM, or their DM did, and I have thought, "Where can I sign up to play at that table?" Other times I have thought, "I would never want to play at their table." Every player has different tastes and there is no guarantee that your tastes and those of a DM on the internet will mesh. Heck even with friends, just because you are friends with someone out-of-game doesn't mean the two of you will enjoy the same things out of an RPG.
I think the only way to know is to try it, and recognize that the rule of "buyer beware" is the same here as anything else you effectively buy "blind." Reviews will only get you so far, especially with something as hard to be objective about as a GM.
$20 per session per person sounds *quite* high to me but then, I refuse to pay someone to GM for me for any price so even $1 would be too high... but still $20 seems like a lot. Most commonly I see values around $8-12 in US rates.
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$20 per player per session for a 4 hour session sounds cheap to me. $80 for 4 hours work, from someone with a specific set of specialist skills, really isn't much. For that amount of money I'd expect to run a module that I'd run before, as there's no wiggle room in that amount for prep time. If I was charging to DM, I'd ask a bare minimum of $10 per hour per player for a prewritten module, or double that for a homebrew game tailored to the players' preferences. A pint of beer where I live is about $8.50, and while that is on the expensive side of things, if you're hiring a DM for a whole evening then you'd expect to make it worth their while.
But yeah, try out a DM and see if you enjoy playing with them. There's no one-size-fits-all for DMing.
But there are more players than DMs so I do feel it's fair for DMs to charge. Just the amount is what I am questioning for an unknown. I would think reviews from past players would be a great way to judge if X DM is right for you.
I have no problem with the charging -- it's a free market; they can charge whatever the market will bear. You are right about the number of DMs to players... last estimate I saw (can't remember where) had it at something like 15 to 1, players to DMs. Since most DMs have maybe 5 players in their group, that means 10 of every 15 players doesn't have a DM. Supply and demand says a DM could clean up doing that -- if you can find people willing to pay for it.
I'm not willing. But that's because I already have a group of friends to play with, and am fully capable of (and frequently do) DMing.
But there are more players than DMs so I do feel it's fair for DMs to charge. Just the amount is what I am questioning for an unknown. I would think reviews from past players would be a great way to judge if X DM is right for you.
There is bit of an issue with online reviews being unreliable, but that aside I'd say the main thing is that these reviews would ideally have to be available wherever that DM runs games. If the game is advertised via a discord, the review section should be part of that discord. If the games are run via Roll20, the reviews should go on Roll20. Same for DMs using these forums, or any other site. A bunch of reviews on a site, for instance here on DDB, that have to start with "I played in a game run by DM Stu at Games Galore in FarAwayVille, Middle of Nowhere..." will get silly fast.
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If just literally one on one, perhaps. Why $10 per player? It is not that hard to scale encounters. DM gets nothing out of it themselves? Do not get the enjoyment of watching the players play and grow in their world? Plus it is not a book. Writing that much in advance is likely spending a lot of extra unnecessary time. Write a plot outline, improvise to that plot weekly, keeping good notes to keep it all consistent. Done.
And what about player skill? Nigh impossible to write a good campaign around bad players. A pure joy to write one around good ones. Should players charge each other? Or charge the DM back? They are putting time and effort in too.
While being a GM is fun and enjoyable, if you charge for it, it is still work and should be treated as such. I do not think GMs should sell themselves short, and they should charge as high as customers are willing to pay. For some players $20 is too high, but for other players, $20 is a bargain, so it depends on the target market the GM is aiming for and whether the GM can meet their expectations.
$20 per player per session for a 4 hour session sounds cheap to me. $80 for 4 hours work, from someone with a specific set of specialist skills, really isn't much. For that amount of money I'd expect to run a module that I'd run before, as there's no wiggle room in that amount for prep time. If I was charging to DM, I'd ask a bare minimum of $10 per hour per player for a prewritten module, or double that for a homebrew game tailored to the players' preferences. A pint of beer where I live is about $8.50, and while that is on the expensive side of things, if you're hiring a DM for a whole evening then you'd expect to make it worth their while.
But yeah, try out a DM and see if you enjoy playing with them. There's no one-size-fits-all for DMing.
If just literally one on one, perhaps. Why $10 per player? It is not that hard to scale encounters. DM gets nothing out of it themselves? Do not get the enjoyment of watching the players play and grow in their world? Plus it is not a book. Writing that much in advance is likely spending a lot of extra unnecessary time. Write a plot outline, improvise to that plot weekly, keeping good notes to keep it all consistent. Done.
And what about player skill? Nigh impossible to write a good campaign around bad players. A pure joy to write one around good ones. Should players charge each other? Or charge the DM back? They are putting time and effort in too.
I'm not sure you're understanding how a market like this works. Nobody is suggesting that all games should involve payment. We're talking about circumstances where a group of players cannot find a DM, none of them want the responsibility or effort, or maybe just feel that they can't, or don't want to, take the DM role. In those circumstances they might opt to pay an experienced DM to run a game for them. Accepting that is a big commitment: it means being available at prearranged times for several hours every week/fortnight/whatever. It means doing the prep for it, having a great knowledge of the rules, and all the other aspects that come with being a great DM.
Why would the DM - who in this circumstance has been asked to run a game for money - not charge each person playing it? All of those people are getting the experience. You could just as easily say why charge everyone who goes to the theatre - you could just charge the first person who goes in, and then everyone else is getting it free.
It's not about whether the DM is getting enjoyment - they are a person being paid to perform a service. If you're being paid to do something, then whether you enjoy it or not isn't relevant.
I run a game with my friends because I want to play D&D. I don't charge anybody to play in my game. I am a DM with 25 years of RPG DM'ing experience, and have always been happy to DM. But I know another group of players who live locally who are desperate to play, but have no DM. I am a busy person with a hectic schedule. I don't have time to run a game for them just because, nor can I commit to a schedule. But if they made it worth my while - I'd need a minimum of $75 per hour to commit to a schedule of game even if I enjoyed it - and they wanted to pay for my time and experience, then I'd consider it. I'd also be happy to play in another group's game as a player for fun, or run a game for my family for fun. But there are legit reasons why a DM might accept payment for making the time, and a legit reason why some players - let's say a group of 5 friends who are new to RPGs - would rather pay an experienced DM than choose one of them, who doesn't want to DM, to take the role. Hell, if there was enough demand at that price I'd probably do it full time.
Nobody should ever charge each other if they just want to have a fun game together (I run my own campaigns because they are a pure joy) and this is not about DMs going out asking people to pay them. It's about players asking to pay a DM. But being DM means doing 99% of the work, and requires a vastly larger skillset than it requires to be a player. It requires time and money investment. For players who cannot find a DM among their friendship group, finding a professional DM is a great idea.
$20 per player per session for a 4 hour session sounds cheap to me. $80 for 4 hours work, from someone with a specific set of specialist skills, really isn't much. For that amount of money I'd expect to run a module that I'd run before, as there's no wiggle room in that amount for prep time. If I was charging to DM, I'd ask a bare minimum of $10 per hour per player for a prewritten module, or double that for a homebrew game tailored to the players' preferences. A pint of beer where I live is about $8.50, and while that is on the expensive side of things, if you're hiring a DM for a whole evening then you'd expect to make it worth their while.
But yeah, try out a DM and see if you enjoy playing with them. There's no one-size-fits-all for DMing.
Most party's have 5 players. $100 total for 5 players over 4 hours works out at $25 an hour tax free (most DMs aren't going to declare their earnings or will classify it as a gift/donation to get around tax laws via things like PayPal). That's actually a very good return considering the legal minimum wage per hour in the UK is £8.91 ($12.34).
Additionally, it isn't about what DMs should be paid, it's about what the market is willing to pay. For $10 (£7.50 / UK here) which is the going rate for a lot of DMs on Roll20, I can go see a movie for a couple of hours, or conversely I can nearly get a month's subcription to a popular pay monthly MMO. Considering this, I'm really not going to pay more than $10 for a 4 hour session. The only way I would pay $20 a session is if the DM was exceptional good, and I say this as someone who currently spends $10 a week for one of the games I'm in.
As for reviews, they could be helpful but I don't know how you would police them. A lot of this is subjective after all.
Is there a spot where DMs can get reviews or I can leave a review for a DM so that future players can see that I enjoyed their game and give my thoughts about the game and DM's style?
You're evidently talking about, or the thread has skewed toward, paid DMs. As a matter of fact there are a number of services that sort of work as DM/player matchmaking "rent a DM" sites. Startplayinggames is one, but not the only one that allows testimonials (and I think they enforce their quality control by kicking flakes and scammers). Some of the VTTs sort of have ratings for users, but the VTTs I believe explicitly declare any financial arrangements between players and DMs is completely at the parties' risk. I don't think DDB has such a position, but I think it's pretty clear since they can't facilitate the transaction, they also don't take any responsibility. So if you want to ensure quality paid gaming, go to a service that does full service (advertises games, presents transparent reviews, and facilitates the transactions) rather than rely on nebulous "yo, ***** me and see you in four weeks on Discord" type correspondence.
Part of the problem with reviews is you can also have some folks who clearly wanted a different experience and weren't satisfied and so they try to hose the DM. Again, sites that take more of a responsibility over the transaction are more likely to look into complaints and false complaints (bad players can get kicked from those sites too).
I've seen good pro DM sites where the DM welcomes spectators where players who may be interested in contracting the DM can actually sit and watch in the background the DM at play. You just have to know what you're looking for. Starting the conversation with "how do DMs get rated" doesn't really get at what I think you're getting at "how do I assure I'm spending money on a quality DM?" It's not hard to be an informed consumer, but a lot of players make a lot of presumptions about what a paid experience should be and just don't do the research.
I can say the thread listing by most recent post here at DDB means DDB forums would be completely inadequate for the sort of review to promote DM work you're talking about. If the DM is trying to expand their "business", they should look for one of the reputable broker/matchers with a robust system to support the vetting and promoting of GMs.
So then what quality should be expected of the DM based on amount of payment? For example, what do you expect of a $5 game compared to a $10 or a $10 to a $20?
The market just isn't standardized. There's a lot of pushback within the community about paid DMs period, as seen in this thread. Moreover there are all sorts of factors to take into account besides the game. Geography matters. Think of it this way, I can buy a beer in St Louis Missouri for $3, there even be $1 draft nights. Same beer might cost me $8 or more in San Francisco, so you got that to consider. I will say folks will pay $20 in SF, some will pay $20/hr in SF. They also pay ~$4.50/gallon for gas, and $1,000,000 for a 2 bedroom 1 bathroom house (actually that's outside SF proper, same property could go well past a million in SF).. I haven't been paid to run, but I've been offered ~$300+ expenses (food/beverage at game, transportation, any prop printing/assembly costs etc) for a one shot for 5 players with the possibility of an ongoing retainer (it wasn't D&D but a game set in a subject matter with which I brought a value added via some experience or technical insight into aspects of the game world). It would have been largely theater of the mind It wasn't worth it to me to commodify my hobby at this point, but of course I considered it.
Let's keep in mind a lot of games exist online (and there are a number of ways to play online). Others used to and are returning to table based play. Both modes have all sorts of materials that could enhance a game and justify a higher cost, and then there. Some games are bespoke experiences, others are sort of reproducible products.
Really, if you're doing market research it's probably better to look at actual providers of paid DM services than a bunch of folks opining on a message board, some of whom are strongly against the very idea of paid DM work.
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$20 per player per session for a 4 hour session sounds cheap to me. $80 for 4 hours work, from someone with a specific set of specialist skills, really isn't much. For that amount of money I'd expect to run a module that I'd run before, as there's no wiggle room in that amount for prep time. If I was charging to DM, I'd ask a bare minimum of $10 per hour per player for a prewritten module, or double that for a homebrew game tailored to the players' preferences. A pint of beer where I live is about $8.50, and while that is on the expensive side of things, if you're hiring a DM for a whole evening then you'd expect to make it worth their while.
But yeah, try out a DM and see if you enjoy playing with them. There's no one-size-fits-all for DMing.
Most party's have 5 players. $100 total for 5 players over 4 hours works out at $25 an hour tax free (most DMs aren't going to declare their earnings or will classify it as a gift/donation to get around tax laws via things like PayPal). That's actually a very good return considering the legal minimum wage per hour in the UK is £8.91 ($12.34).
Additionally, it isn't about what DMs should be paid, it's about what the market is willing to pay. For $10 (£7.50 / UK here) which is the going rate for a lot of DMs on Roll20, I can go see a movie for a couple of hours, or conversely I can nearly get a month's subcription to a popular pay monthly MMO. Considering this, I'm really not going to pay more than $10 for a 4 hour session. The only way I would pay $20 a session is if the DM was exceptional good, and I say this as someone who currently spends $10 a week for one of the games I'm in.
As for reviews, they could be helpful but I don't know how you would police them. A lot of this is subjective after all.
You can earn minimum wage for going into a supermarket and stacking shelves. It's a nil-skill job, as most minimum wage jobs are.
As a job, DM'ing is a multi skill and experience based work. The DM needs to be able to voice act, to plan, to mediate socially, and have complex specialist knowledge. If I was doing it only for money, then I'd expect to be paid as a skilled specialist. I think offering someone the price of a beer for 4 hours of their time would be ludicrous, but that's probably where we are because this is a fledgling market.
As D&D continues to grow in popularity and more and more players embrace online games, we'll find some enterprising companies setting up a database of DMs where a group of players will be able to request a regular weekly or biweekly slot, a specific module, or even request a custom homebrew game based on what they specifically would like to play. DM's who are in higher demand because they're so popular will charge higher amounts. Imagine how much some people would pay for Matthew Mercer to run their game for them (let's be honest - none of us could afford him). But what if you could get someone who was just as good (and of course there are thousands of amazing DMs) but they live in Ontario, and you and your online mates live in Europe. I wouldn't be surprised to see semi-professional DMs running 5 games per week for different groups in the future.
So then what quality should be expected of the DM based on amount of payment? For example, what do you expect of a $5 game compared to a $10 or a $10 to a $20?
$5 / hour - they haven't bothered to read the module before they run it. I know everybody's income level varies, but this is the kind of money you give to the guy sitting outside the shop on the corner. It's less than minimum wage. Anybody running it for this much should run it for free and just enjoy DM'ing because they're not making any money.
$10 / hour - pre-written module they've run before, no character personal storylines, no investment of time by the DM before the game. Still below minimum wage in the UK.
$20 / hour - pre-written module they may or may not have run before, characters have personal storylines woven into the game, prepped by the DM
$50 / hour - bespoke campaign themed around the requests of the players with complex personal backstories, custom maps, possibly artwork if the DM is good at it, custom tokens for online maps. The works, basically.
So then what quality should be expected of the DM based on amount of payment? For example, what do you expect of a $5 game compared to a $10 or a $10 to a $20?
$5 / hour - they haven't bothered to read the module before they run it. I know everybody's income level varies, but this is the kind of money you give to the guy sitting outside the shop on the corner. It's less than minimum wage. Anybody running it for this much should run it for free and just enjoy DM'ing because they're not making any money.
$10 / hour - pre-written module they've run before, no character personal storylines, no investment of time by the DM before the game. Still below minimum wage in the UK.
$20 / hour - pre-written module they may or may not have run before, characters have personal storylines woven into the game, prepped by the DM
$50 / hour - bespoke campaign themed around the requests of the players with complex personal backstories, custom maps, possibly artwork if the DM is good at it, custom tokens for online maps. The works, basically.
I think the mistake you are making is that you are treating the DM's time for each player seperately. As I said before, 5x$10 is for 4 hours is $50 divided by 4. That's $12.50 or £9.01 an hour. Considering most DMs won't declare their earnings that's effectively tax free. That's not only above the minimum UK wage but is much more than what you would get for working 'cash in hand'.
Also, most decent / good DMs can run a module with backstory hooks, and they do that for free. If you're going to charge then you need to be offering more than the competition, otherwise people won't use your services.
If you're going to charge then you need to be offering more than the competition, otherwise people won't use your services.
There's a shortage of DMs (I think there's a reference to there being 1 DM for every 15 players in this thread, which would mean a shortage of roughly 66% - and that's assuming DMs are geographically spread out, which is unlikely to be the case). Competition is only a consideration if there are sufficient competitors.
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If you're going to charge then you need to be offering more than the competition, otherwise people won't use your services.
There's a shortage of DMs (I think there's a reference to there being 1 DM for every 15 players in this thread, which would mean a shortage of roughly 66% - and that's assuming DMs are geographically spread out, which is unlikely to be the case). Competition is only a consideration if there are sufficient competitors.
That is true, however, I suspect it is a vast minority of the total pool of D&D players who are willing to pay for a game. Most people I know point blank refuse to pay. Incidentally I do. So while there might be more players than DMs, that doesn't mean much if most of those players aren't actually willing to pay anything. As I said, if you're going to charge people to play, then you not only need to be better than all the free DMs, but you also have to find the people who are willing to pay what you're charging, and the likelyhood of that goes down the more you charge.
If you're going to charge then you need to be offering more than the competition, otherwise people won't use your services.
There's a shortage of DMs (I think there's a reference to there being 1 DM for every 15 players in this thread, which would mean a shortage of roughly 66% - and that's assuming DMs are geographically spread out, which is unlikely to be the case). Competition is only a consideration if there are sufficient competitors.
That is true, however, I suspect it is a vast minority of the total pool of D&D players who are willing to pay for a game. Most people I know point blank refuse to pay. Incidentally I do. So while there might be more players than DMs, that doesn't mean much if most of those players aren't actually willing to pay anything. As I said, if you're going to charge people to play, then you not only need to be better than all the free DMs, but you also have to find the people who are willing to pay what you're charging, and the likelyhood of that goes down the more you charge.
The vast majority of that minority will be players who have a hard time finding a DM, either one they like or just any DM at all. I'd pay for a game with any of a handful of "celebrity" DMs I like, but I have the spending money for that and I'm not interested in paying a "professional" DM in general because I can find one who'll do it for free or I can DM myself. There is no "all the free DMs" for most of the people willing to pay, as that's exactly the reason they are willing in the first place.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
So then what quality should be expected of the DM based on amount of payment? For example, what do you expect of a $5 game compared to a $10 or a $10 to a $20?
$5 / hour - they haven't bothered to read the module before they run it. I know everybody's income level varies, but this is the kind of money you give to the guy sitting outside the shop on the corner. It's less than minimum wage. Anybody running it for this much should run it for free and just enjoy DM'ing because they're not making any money.
$10 / hour - pre-written module they've run before, no character personal storylines, no investment of time by the DM before the game. Still below minimum wage in the UK.
$20 / hour - pre-written module they may or may not have run before, characters have personal storylines woven into the game, prepped by the DM
$50 / hour - bespoke campaign themed around the requests of the players with complex personal backstories, custom maps, possibly artwork if the DM is good at it, custom tokens for online maps. The works, basically.
I think the mistake you are making is that you are treating the DM's time for each player seperately. As I said before, 5x$10 is for 4 hours is $50 divided by 4. That's $12.50 or £9.01 an hour. Considering most DMs won't declare their earnings that's effectively tax free. That's not only above the minimum UK wage but is much more than what you would get for working 'cash in hand'.
Also, most decent / good DMs can run a module with backstory hooks, and they do that for free. If you're going to charge then you need to be offering more than the competition, otherwise people won't use your services.
I mean, you're entitled to your opinion and presumption that "most people you know" are the end all and be all of a potential market, but your posts here seem to lowball the paid gaming market that actually exists, lowball both in terms of rates and number of people doing it (and presumptuous of what gig economy types and freelancers do and don't report on their taxes). You feel games are worth x$ and onlyX# of players would deign to pay for gaming. That's just not true. Ads on Roll20 aren't really indicative of what people can and do make through other services, any more than the pay to play ads here on DDB. It's this sort of "feedback" which is more an expression that paid gaming is not your taste, that led me to suggest the OP actually look into the communities around the services that provide robust support for paid games (advertisement, reviews, and transaction management) than a community based around a service that serves a pool of players by and large engaged in non monetized play. It's sort of like walking into a mall food court looking for guidance in setting up a vegan menu. There may be some insight, but by and large the bulk of the input doesn't know what they're talking about.
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Is there a spot where DMs can get reviews or I can leave a review for a DM so that future players can see that I enjoyed their game and give my thoughts about the game and DM's style?
How do you know if a DM is good when joining a paid game, especially $20 per week ones.
How does a DM justify their price tag?
The short answer is, you don't know until you play with them if the DM is a good fit for you or not. I have had people describe things on here that they did as a DM, or their DM did, and I have thought, "Where can I sign up to play at that table?" Other times I have thought, "I would never want to play at their table." Every player has different tastes and there is no guarantee that your tastes and those of a DM on the internet will mesh. Heck even with friends, just because you are friends with someone out-of-game doesn't mean the two of you will enjoy the same things out of an RPG.
I think the only way to know is to try it, and recognize that the rule of "buyer beware" is the same here as anything else you effectively buy "blind." Reviews will only get you so far, especially with something as hard to be objective about as a GM.
$20 per session per person sounds *quite* high to me but then, I refuse to pay someone to GM for me for any price so even $1 would be too high... but still $20 seems like a lot. Most commonly I see values around $8-12 in US rates.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
$20 per player per session for a 4 hour session sounds cheap to me. $80 for 4 hours work, from someone with a specific set of specialist skills, really isn't much. For that amount of money I'd expect to run a module that I'd run before, as there's no wiggle room in that amount for prep time. If I was charging to DM, I'd ask a bare minimum of $10 per hour per player for a prewritten module, or double that for a homebrew game tailored to the players' preferences. A pint of beer where I live is about $8.50, and while that is on the expensive side of things, if you're hiring a DM for a whole evening then you'd expect to make it worth their while.
But yeah, try out a DM and see if you enjoy playing with them. There's no one-size-fits-all for DMing.
But there are more players than DMs so I do feel it's fair for DMs to charge. Just the amount is what I am questioning for an unknown. I would think reviews from past players would be a great way to judge if X DM is right for you.
I have no problem with the charging -- it's a free market; they can charge whatever the market will bear. You are right about the number of DMs to players... last estimate I saw (can't remember where) had it at something like 15 to 1, players to DMs. Since most DMs have maybe 5 players in their group, that means 10 of every 15 players doesn't have a DM. Supply and demand says a DM could clean up doing that -- if you can find people willing to pay for it.
I'm not willing. But that's because I already have a group of friends to play with, and am fully capable of (and frequently do) DMing.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
There is bit of an issue with online reviews being unreliable, but that aside I'd say the main thing is that these reviews would ideally have to be available wherever that DM runs games. If the game is advertised via a discord, the review section should be part of that discord. If the games are run via Roll20, the reviews should go on Roll20. Same for DMs using these forums, or any other site. A bunch of reviews on a site, for instance here on DDB, that have to start with "I played in a game run by DM Stu at Games Galore in FarAwayVille, Middle of Nowhere..." will get silly fast.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
While being a GM is fun and enjoyable, if you charge for it, it is still work and should be treated as such. I do not think GMs should sell themselves short, and they should charge as high as customers are willing to pay. For some players $20 is too high, but for other players, $20 is a bargain, so it depends on the target market the GM is aiming for and whether the GM can meet their expectations.
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I'm not sure you're understanding how a market like this works. Nobody is suggesting that all games should involve payment. We're talking about circumstances where a group of players cannot find a DM, none of them want the responsibility or effort, or maybe just feel that they can't, or don't want to, take the DM role. In those circumstances they might opt to pay an experienced DM to run a game for them. Accepting that is a big commitment: it means being available at prearranged times for several hours every week/fortnight/whatever. It means doing the prep for it, having a great knowledge of the rules, and all the other aspects that come with being a great DM.
Why would the DM - who in this circumstance has been asked to run a game for money - not charge each person playing it? All of those people are getting the experience. You could just as easily say why charge everyone who goes to the theatre - you could just charge the first person who goes in, and then everyone else is getting it free.
It's not about whether the DM is getting enjoyment - they are a person being paid to perform a service. If you're being paid to do something, then whether you enjoy it or not isn't relevant.
I run a game with my friends because I want to play D&D. I don't charge anybody to play in my game. I am a DM with 25 years of RPG DM'ing experience, and have always been happy to DM. But I know another group of players who live locally who are desperate to play, but have no DM. I am a busy person with a hectic schedule. I don't have time to run a game for them just because, nor can I commit to a schedule. But if they made it worth my while - I'd need a minimum of $75 per hour to commit to a schedule of game even if I enjoyed it - and they wanted to pay for my time and experience, then I'd consider it. I'd also be happy to play in another group's game as a player for fun, or run a game for my family for fun. But there are legit reasons why a DM might accept payment for making the time, and a legit reason why some players - let's say a group of 5 friends who are new to RPGs - would rather pay an experienced DM than choose one of them, who doesn't want to DM, to take the role. Hell, if there was enough demand at that price I'd probably do it full time.
Nobody should ever charge each other if they just want to have a fun game together (I run my own campaigns because they are a pure joy) and this is not about DMs going out asking people to pay them. It's about players asking to pay a DM. But being DM means doing 99% of the work, and requires a vastly larger skillset than it requires to be a player. It requires time and money investment. For players who cannot find a DM among their friendship group, finding a professional DM is a great idea.
Most party's have 5 players. $100 total for 5 players over 4 hours works out at $25 an hour tax free (most DMs aren't going to declare their earnings or will classify it as a gift/donation to get around tax laws via things like PayPal). That's actually a very good return considering the legal minimum wage per hour in the UK is £8.91 ($12.34).
Additionally, it isn't about what DMs should be paid, it's about what the market is willing to pay. For $10 (£7.50 / UK here) which is the going rate for a lot of DMs on Roll20, I can go see a movie for a couple of hours, or conversely I can nearly get a month's subcription to a popular pay monthly MMO. Considering this, I'm really not going to pay more than $10 for a 4 hour session. The only way I would pay $20 a session is if the DM was exceptional good, and I say this as someone who currently spends $10 a week for one of the games I'm in.
As for reviews, they could be helpful but I don't know how you would police them. A lot of this is subjective after all.
You're evidently talking about, or the thread has skewed toward, paid DMs. As a matter of fact there are a number of services that sort of work as DM/player matchmaking "rent a DM" sites. Startplayinggames is one, but not the only one that allows testimonials (and I think they enforce their quality control by kicking flakes and scammers). Some of the VTTs sort of have ratings for users, but the VTTs I believe explicitly declare any financial arrangements between players and DMs is completely at the parties' risk. I don't think DDB has such a position, but I think it's pretty clear since they can't facilitate the transaction, they also don't take any responsibility. So if you want to ensure quality paid gaming, go to a service that does full service (advertises games, presents transparent reviews, and facilitates the transactions) rather than rely on nebulous "yo, ***** me and see you in four weeks on Discord" type correspondence.
Part of the problem with reviews is you can also have some folks who clearly wanted a different experience and weren't satisfied and so they try to hose the DM. Again, sites that take more of a responsibility over the transaction are more likely to look into complaints and false complaints (bad players can get kicked from those sites too).
I've seen good pro DM sites where the DM welcomes spectators where players who may be interested in contracting the DM can actually sit and watch in the background the DM at play. You just have to know what you're looking for. Starting the conversation with "how do DMs get rated" doesn't really get at what I think you're getting at "how do I assure I'm spending money on a quality DM?" It's not hard to be an informed consumer, but a lot of players make a lot of presumptions about what a paid experience should be and just don't do the research.
I can say the thread listing by most recent post here at DDB means DDB forums would be completely inadequate for the sort of review to promote DM work you're talking about. If the DM is trying to expand their "business", they should look for one of the reputable broker/matchers with a robust system to support the vetting and promoting of GMs.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
So then what quality should be expected of the DM based on amount of payment? For example, what do you expect of a $5 game compared to a $10 or a $10 to a $20?
The market just isn't standardized. There's a lot of pushback within the community about paid DMs period, as seen in this thread. Moreover there are all sorts of factors to take into account besides the game. Geography matters. Think of it this way, I can buy a beer in St Louis Missouri for $3, there even be $1 draft nights. Same beer might cost me $8 or more in San Francisco, so you got that to consider. I will say folks will pay $20 in SF, some will pay $20/hr in SF. They also pay ~$4.50/gallon for gas, and $1,000,000 for a 2 bedroom 1 bathroom house (actually that's outside SF proper, same property could go well past a million in SF).. I haven't been paid to run, but I've been offered ~$300+ expenses (food/beverage at game, transportation, any prop printing/assembly costs etc) for a one shot for 5 players with the possibility of an ongoing retainer (it wasn't D&D but a game set in a subject matter with which I brought a value added via some experience or technical insight into aspects of the game world). It would have been largely theater of the mind It wasn't worth it to me to commodify my hobby at this point, but of course I considered it.
Let's keep in mind a lot of games exist online (and there are a number of ways to play online). Others used to and are returning to table based play. Both modes have all sorts of materials that could enhance a game and justify a higher cost, and then there. Some games are bespoke experiences, others are sort of reproducible products.
Really, if you're doing market research it's probably better to look at actual providers of paid DM services than a bunch of folks opining on a message board, some of whom are strongly against the very idea of paid DM work.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
You can earn minimum wage for going into a supermarket and stacking shelves. It's a nil-skill job, as most minimum wage jobs are.
As a job, DM'ing is a multi skill and experience based work. The DM needs to be able to voice act, to plan, to mediate socially, and have complex specialist knowledge. If I was doing it only for money, then I'd expect to be paid as a skilled specialist. I think offering someone the price of a beer for 4 hours of their time would be ludicrous, but that's probably where we are because this is a fledgling market.
As D&D continues to grow in popularity and more and more players embrace online games, we'll find some enterprising companies setting up a database of DMs where a group of players will be able to request a regular weekly or biweekly slot, a specific module, or even request a custom homebrew game based on what they specifically would like to play. DM's who are in higher demand because they're so popular will charge higher amounts. Imagine how much some people would pay for Matthew Mercer to run their game for them (let's be honest - none of us could afford him). But what if you could get someone who was just as good (and of course there are thousands of amazing DMs) but they live in Ontario, and you and your online mates live in Europe. I wouldn't be surprised to see semi-professional DMs running 5 games per week for different groups in the future.
$5 / hour - they haven't bothered to read the module before they run it. I know everybody's income level varies, but this is the kind of money you give to the guy sitting outside the shop on the corner. It's less than minimum wage. Anybody running it for this much should run it for free and just enjoy DM'ing because they're not making any money.
$10 / hour - pre-written module they've run before, no character personal storylines, no investment of time by the DM before the game. Still below minimum wage in the UK.
$20 / hour - pre-written module they may or may not have run before, characters have personal storylines woven into the game, prepped by the DM
$50 / hour - bespoke campaign themed around the requests of the players with complex personal backstories, custom maps, possibly artwork if the DM is good at it, custom tokens for online maps. The works, basically.
I think the mistake you are making is that you are treating the DM's time for each player seperately. As I said before, 5x$10 is for 4 hours is $50 divided by 4. That's $12.50 or £9.01 an hour. Considering most DMs won't declare their earnings that's effectively tax free. That's not only above the minimum UK wage but is much more than what you would get for working 'cash in hand'.
Also, most decent / good DMs can run a module with backstory hooks, and they do that for free. If you're going to charge then you need to be offering more than the competition, otherwise people won't use your services.
There's a shortage of DMs (I think there's a reference to there being 1 DM for every 15 players in this thread, which would mean a shortage of roughly 66% - and that's assuming DMs are geographically spread out, which is unlikely to be the case). Competition is only a consideration if there are sufficient competitors.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
That is true, however, I suspect it is a vast minority of the total pool of D&D players who are willing to pay for a game. Most people I know point blank refuse to pay. Incidentally I do. So while there might be more players than DMs, that doesn't mean much if most of those players aren't actually willing to pay anything. As I said, if you're going to charge people to play, then you not only need to be better than all the free DMs, but you also have to find the people who are willing to pay what you're charging, and the likelyhood of that goes down the more you charge.
The vast majority of that minority will be players who have a hard time finding a DM, either one they like or just any DM at all. I'd pay for a game with any of a handful of "celebrity" DMs I like, but I have the spending money for that and I'm not interested in paying a "professional" DM in general because I can find one who'll do it for free or I can DM myself. There is no "all the free DMs" for most of the people willing to pay, as that's exactly the reason they are willing in the first place.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I mean, you're entitled to your opinion and presumption that "most people you know" are the end all and be all of a potential market, but your posts here seem to lowball the paid gaming market that actually exists, lowball both in terms of rates and number of people doing it (and presumptuous of what gig economy types and freelancers do and don't report on their taxes). You feel games are worth x$ and onlyX# of players would deign to pay for gaming. That's just not true. Ads on Roll20 aren't really indicative of what people can and do make through other services, any more than the pay to play ads here on DDB. It's this sort of "feedback" which is more an expression that paid gaming is not your taste, that led me to suggest the OP actually look into the communities around the services that provide robust support for paid games (advertisement, reviews, and transaction management) than a community based around a service that serves a pool of players by and large engaged in non monetized play. It's sort of like walking into a mall food court looking for guidance in setting up a vegan menu. There may be some insight, but by and large the bulk of the input doesn't know what they're talking about.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.