If you're going to charge then you need to be offering more than the competition, otherwise people won't use your services.
There's a shortage of DMs (I think there's a reference to there being 1 DM for every 15 players in this thread, which would mean a shortage of roughly 66% - and that's assuming DMs are geographically spread out, which is unlikely to be the case). Competition is only a consideration if there are sufficient competitors.
That is true, however, I suspect it is a vast minority of the total pool of D&D players who are willing to pay for a game. Most people I know point blank refuse to pay. Incidentally I do. So while there might be more players than DMs, that doesn't mean much if most of those players aren't actually willing to pay anything. As I said, if you're going to charge people to play, then you not only need to be better than all the free DMs, but you also have to find the people who are willing to pay what you're charging, and the likelyhood of that goes down the more you charge.
The vast majority of that minority will be players who have a hard time finding a DM, either one they like or just any DM at all. I'd pay for a game with any of a handful of "celebrity" DMs I like, but I have the spending money for that and I'm not interested in paying a "professional" DM in general because I can find one who'll do it for free or I can DM myself. There is no "all the free DMs" for most of the people willing to pay, as that's exactly the reason they are willing in the first place.
The main reason for a shortage is that many cannot afford to buy all of the hardcopy books and then get hit by the Covid lockdown meaning they need to pay again for all of the books in digital format and also a monthly subscription on here to be able to share those electronic books with their friends.
Yeah, nah. That's not a thing. Or it shouldn't be, at any rate. You can DM perfectly fine without subscription and without books to share on DDB. And it may surprise you, but the far greater majority of DMs out there keep on keeping on with even having an account here. The main reason for the shortage is that most players think they can't DM and/or just don't want to.
Yeah, moreover, there's many a popular stream where it's clear characters are learning the rules via the GM, probably don't own the manuals but may have skimmed some cheat sheet on the internet, and we're talking games a little more mechanically challenging than D&D. There are also a lot of paid DMs (different from streams) who specialize in teaching game systems, sometimes actually just running the players through intro scenarios published with the game.
And while I'm generally anti soap box, before I order my burger, I want to just point out that one never has to buy "all the books" for any game system. The completist = better game kool aid so many drink I feel is more problematic to new (and most often young) gamers than paid gaming. It's confusing marketing with oxygen. It's D&D Inessentials, so to speak.
It is an utter disgrace, and being online for the world to see, I would hope that those DM's declare the money to the Inland Revenue.
I'll never understand the personal offense some folks take to paying game market. The complainants aren't being shut out of anything except maybe playing with that specific DM (but as the objector previously said, being a DM ain't all that special) , it's not the direction the whole hobby is going in. It's like people who like to be cook being offended that restaurants exist. These markets just don't change anyone's personal relationship with the game. There's no disgrace in someone paying $ to make the hobby more convenient to them. Whether or not they report their income or not is a matter of their specific geographies tax law, one hater of paid DMs alleged tax cheats, and I'm sure some do, but I don't think any more or less than any other gig or freelance occupation (the reporting usually being proportional to the amount being made, which actually isn't smart for the low income filer because usually their benefits within the code they're missing out on) .
There are plenty of free games, and DnD is pretty much free to play. The only thing you need are pencils, paper and some dice. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that DM's are some super human, special breed. Literally anyone can be a DM.
True, just some DMs are simply adept at turning their hobby into a service or product or production for which they can be compensated or otherwise materially supported. It doesn't destroy the hobby. Rather it probably leads to more people actually playing who otherwise wouldn't be putting in the effort in time and social capital. Paid DMing just isn't a problem to be solved by soap boxing (because it's not a problem). This is a thread where a apparent DM wanted to explore the paid space (at first it seemed they were making the false distinction that paid = better DMs, but it became apparent pretty quick that wasn't the case). Moralizing against the inquiry isn't really productive for anyone in the conversation. What is productive is providing the reality check of the varieties of ways game players find opportunities to monetize their hobby (making clear the distinction between a streamer and a DM for hire being key). Reality grounded in the material facts of the paid space will either encourage or dissuade them from to adapt their hobby into a venture. And none of it threatens the way anyone else plays.
When you say "the group that she DM's for enjoy that", do you mean the paid performers on the CR show? Or are you talking about some other show that she does?
The paid performers who are actually self-employed, can pretty much get any DM they want at this point and have tryouts to pick the one they like best, those paid perfomers. And the people on her other half dozen or so streams, and the groups she GM's for privately. No need to imply this is a sham because it's a public, for-profit game.
I'm not sure how this got around to the D&D "TV shows," which are a completely different kettle of fish...
... but back to the subject of DM reviews, and whether there should be some for paid DMs, and how much DMs should charge and so on.... I will say one thing. I can see a DM asking for help defraying the costs of DMing. For example, when I was running my now-on-hiatus campaign (while my friend DMs instead to give me a break from DMing after 18 months), I was paying about $15/mo. for a Zoom account, and about another $8/mo. (though paid annually) for World Anvil, which we use for campaign logs and such, and Forge, for hosting Foundry. That's $23/mo., and does not count buying books here, buying maps on Forge (sometimes, though rarely, since I mostly make my own), and the like.
Now, I have the money to pay for that, and it didn't squeeze my wallet an undue amount. Heck I've had the money to buy hardcover books or PDFs to games I'll likely never get to play, like Call of Cthulhu or Savage Worlds. BUT... if I had said to them, there are 5 of you, and this is costing me roughly $23/mo. to do, so I'd like us to each ante up $4 ($20 from the 5 of them, and I pay the $3+ to cover the rest), I don't think such a request would be unfair.
If you flip this to a paid stranger DM, who is paying that kind of money per month, then it is not unreasonable for the person to charge a small fee per person per month (or per session or what have you). I wouldn't DM if I couldn't afford to myself, but there's nothing that says that DMing needs to put you into the red. Even though it almost always does, for the majority of us.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
When you say "the group that she DM's for enjoy that", do you mean the paid performers on the CR show? Or are you talking about some other show that she does? And you are quite correct. I would not enjoy a DM who is loosey goosey with the rules. Lastly, birds of feather do indeed flock together. Those that appreciate the game was designed to play within a strict rule set now spanning thousands of pages of material would most certainly gravitate towards a DM that feels the same way, while those that think they don't need to read anything to play D&D will also gravitate towards a like-minded DM.
You're running into this trap of your preferred experience of D&D being D&D. It is certainly not the case of the present designers' the perspective of 5e that the game is "designed to play within a strict rule set now spanning thousands of pages of material." Just no. At least a third of that page count are explicitly portrayed as containing options for games. People who never leave the Essentials or the Basic Rules or what have you are playing the game "as designed." Nowhere in any of the rulebooks is there an insistence on strict adherence to the rules. Rather, the only time such a requirement is brought up is when it's dismissed as essential to the game. Even the grand arbiter of rules conflict "Sage Advice" prefaces with "A Dungeon Master adjudicates the game and determines whether to use an official ruling in play. The DM always has the final say on rules questions." So sure, a DM can draw players because they play 100% RAW BAR certified, whatever that means, but to say to play other than RAW is somehow deviating from the game's intent ... isn't even tilting at Windmills. It's protecting windmills from tilters who aren't going to do any harm to the windmill regardless of the defensive posture. It's an imaginary conflict with no real stakes. Much like paid DMing versus "DMing out of pure love's labor" (also known as "what every other DM does") or what have you.
As for the current Crit Role side story. The DM and at least half the cast were brought in to do something different than the past two seasons of CR as a break between seasons 2 and 3. I'm not even that hard core into the show (I think I may have heard total of five hours while washing dishes) and could see that were trying something a little different with a different style DM and some players with barely any experience of the game. I don't think there's anything wrong with it any more than I do the house rules the "mainstream" Crit Role engages in. They're both D&D to me.
You folks should probably take arguments about Critical Role to a separate thread. It doesn't really pertain to reviewing and paid DMing.
Well to address your policing of what you feel the topic of this thread is, as you may have read, the OP oscillates between interest in being a paid DM and/or a streamer as a way to promote homebrew content, and how to assess a paid DM they may retain. I've made a number of efforts at teasing out the difference but a lot of anti DMs for hire also don't seem to recognize the difference. The formulation behind the initial query was inchoate and as it teased out it turned into a joint discussion of evaluating DMs and monetizing one's game. Whether CR is a realistic point of reference, I agree, is debatable but it's a constant reference for those who either don't or refuse to understand the variety of ways TTRPG play is monetized.
Things have definately changed over the last couple of years. In the early dayts of 5e a group of friends playing they want to play together they know that one person needs to be DM. The DM would need a DMG, MM and PHB while the players would need access to a PHB (I know you can play with just SRD but realistically after a few sessions you will want to expand) and possibly an published adventure it is possible the frineds would club together cover the cost or the players might take turns to provide drinks and snacks while the DM isn't in the rota. If you didn't have friends who wanted to play you could go to a game shop, these ran if different ways sometimes the shop provide DMs (possible unpaid but provided with books) the shop would charge the players for being there but this was often not thought of as "paid DMing".
With Covid the friends couldn't meet together and so online play has greatly expanded and so has the number of books. Players expect very few limitations on their character so if the player wants to be a Verdan Order domain Cleric with a courtier Background and optional features the DM needs to buy AI, GGtR, SCAG and Tasha's to know what they can do (at least with DnDBeyond they can buy the individual features but that is still $8 for that single PC).
At one end of the paid DM scale if the guy who doesn't want to make anything out of DMing but wants ot provide the players with a good experiance and not be out of pocket. He might spend $300 on books and get a master tier set up a fortnightly game and get his money back in 6 months.
At the other end of the scale is the person who wants to make a living doing what they love. In any area like this unless you are exceptionally good this means you will have ot be willing ot accept barely enough to live on. Say you enjoy watersports so you become an instructor at a watersports centre, because lots of people want such jobs and the centres compete against each other on price those instructors will most likely be on long hours at low wages. I of one full time DM who ran about 12 games a week so that was 36 hours just of game time prepping and communicating existing and potential new players probably doubled that. They charged $15 a session so might have been earning $40k per annum which is probably comparable with that watersports instructor. You can go sailing if you have a friend with a boat and the knowledge of how to sail but if you don't you will have to pay an instructor or not go. Is D&D that different. (The "exceptionally good" I referred to is the likes of Matt Mercer who I am sure could charge clients $100s for a session but instead lets 1000s enjoy his DMing by streaming his "performances" this is the equivalent of a professional elite sportsman on extremely well paid contracts or winning large amounts of prize money on a regular basis)
Another analogy I can think of is like healthcare in the UK. Lets assume you want ot play D&D but your friends don't so you try to join online applying via forums. There are DMs advertising games for free but when you post your application you will find maybe so do 50 others so it takes you a long time to get into a game as 90% of the time you are not chosen. If you ar ewilling ot pay however you can get into a game preetty much immediately, the DM may or may not be better than the ones who don't charge but you get to play without waiting and when you want. If you need elective surgery in the UK (say a hip replacment) you can either go on a waiting list and maybe get it done in 12 months (at government expense) or you pay to have it done privately straight away (quite possibly by the same surgeon)
I'm going to stick my head over the parapet and confess to being a 'professional DM'... sort of... not really.
My LFGS charges $5 entry and, for organised play, players pay the DM $5 each for the session. That's $10 entry for players. DMs also pay entry, but that goes straight to the AL organiser. So, with a minimum of 3 players and max of 6, I see $10-$25 per four hour session. Then there's DM's Guild modules which can cost just over $5 (I'm in Oz, so currency conversion). Of course, what's left goes back into the store by way of snack and mini purchases! So, yeah, no one is doing it for the money and I treat it as such. I'm aware the players are paying $10, but I don't do much more prep than I would for a home game.
I'd actually rather not get paid, but it's nice having the costs covered and the store doesn't have much trouble getting DMs. I guess the money is just an acknowledgement. Honestly, I never thought having to pay to play would work but the store is flourishing and I've only had one game cancelled due to lack of players. FYI, this store doesn't offer Magic - it's all RPGs and board games.
As for a rating system... it would be useless. My players seem to enjoy my games and would probably give me a good score, but I don't consider myself a good DM and frequently I ask them for rules clarifications (I don't run D&D often and prefer other systems). I don't think it would translate into a good experience for other kinds of players.
While I think I do OK as a GM, I would be afraid of not being able to measure up to expectations.
DMs obviously have specific tasks the players don't have to worry about, but it's still very much a cooperative game. Good DMs make players better but the reverse is true as well, and while paying players are in their right to have certain expectations of the DM who runs the game the fact that they are paying tends to make them more invested (well, they literally are). The standard to live up to might be high, but running for a group of invested players is also easier in some respects. And asking money, crudely put, weeds out a good percentage of annoying and frustrating players (which is good for the whole group, not just the DM).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I'm going to stick my head over the parapet and confess to being a 'professional DM'... sort of... not really.
My LFGS charges $5 entry and, for organised play, players pay the DM $5 each for the session. That's $10 entry for players. DMs also pay entry, but that goes straight to the AL organiser. So, with a minimum of 3 players and max of 6, I see $10-$25 per four hour session. Then there's DM's Guild modules which can cost just over $5 (I'm in Oz, so currency conversion). Of course, what's left goes back into the store by way of snack and mini purchases! So, yeah, no one is doing it for the money and I treat it as such. I'm aware the players are paying $10, but I don't do much more prep than I would for a home game.
I'd actually rather not get paid, but it's nice having the costs covered and the store doesn't have much trouble getting DMs. I guess the money is just an acknowledgement. Honestly, I never thought having to pay to play would work but the store is flourishing and I've only had one game cancelled due to lack of players. FYI, this store doesn't offer Magic - it's all RPGs and board games.
As for a rating system... it would be useless. My players seem to enjoy my games and would probably give me a good score, but I don't consider myself a good DM and frequently I ask them for rules clarifications (I don't run D&D often and prefer other systems). I don't think it would translate into a good experience for other kinds of players.
Nothing to feel bad about here....
AL has been doing this since the start of 5e so its a common practice. FLGS need income too and they are giving up space and time for people to come do organized play. I also think the DMs who do the AL should be compensated somehow because (this is my experience anyway) DMing in AL is ROUGH.
The Mercer effect is actually detrimental to DMs who set out to go pro (or at least paid): nothing like having to compete with an impossible standard. That aside though, all of this will get fixed by reality setting in. DMs who can't deliver quality or aren't willing to put in the work will lose customers. Streamers hoping to monetize will find out it's hard to get subscribers in a heavily saturated market. The cream will rise to the top and the rest will either continue for their own enjoyment or call it quits. No need to get worked up over other people trying to do something. They'll succeed, in which case your criticism was clearly unfounded, or they'll fail and you got worked up over nothing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
My experience of paid DMs is they are no better free DMs but they are more accessible. Unless you are a personal friend of someone willing to DM you have to find one either in a game shop or on the internet. The number of players seeking willing DMs is far more than the number of players they are looking for so applying is like buying a lottery ticket. Being willing to pay things out the competition so it is much easier to get into a game.
I do not think reviews help much, you never know if the review was by the DM or their friend, or by someone with a grudge. I think the best approach is to ask the dm if you can listen in on a game before deciding if you want to play with them. That gives you an idea of their style and ability.
Its also just about availability....I am in a region where you have 0 luck finding a game IRL (especially with COVID but it was bad before).
So you have a few options:
1. Go online and take your luck with random folks who may or may not just decide to not show up/play in a way similar to your style. Its free but finding a game may take a long time....how much money is your time worth?
2. Pay a DM online to organize a game. It costs money but its the most surefire way to ensure you have an invested DM with invested players in the online setting.
3. Go to AL game nights. Depending on the location you may have to pay to play. Luck of the draw who you get. The DM has to stick with the module pretty closely so no real deviation from the path here.
4. Start a MeetUp or similar group for people and find a public place for you all to play in. COVID has limited this option greatly and its a little risky as you are meeting random people.
I did #4 for my group and got really lucky but it took time and effort and I offered to DM. Being a player and doing this is next to impossible almost but it can work out.
So I fully understand the draw for paid DMing and how it has become more common. I have no experience with it but the people who do seem to find it beneficial.
when i got back into DnD after 25 years, me and my friend searching for online games got EXTREMELY lucky. we met one of the friendliest, nicest guys who catered to new players. He put on a free one shot, then told us of campaigns he runs for $7 a session per person. He's Canadian too so it's not like it's real money! :)
Our first reaction was "pay for a DM? that's insane!" but after some experiences on Westmarches, and PUG. i get it. i still think some way overcharge, but if they get players, then more power to them. Like i said, i got lucky. A great DM that charges less than a movie ticket for 4 hours work.
I've seen third party sites where DM's are reviewed and listed so they can expand their business. My DM intentionally avoids those, otherwise i'd hype him up like crazy. But there are resources for that, how reliable they actually are is still to be seen.
I have never played in a game where someone paid to be a DM, nor have I charged for DMing a game, but I feel like with its benefits it could also make problem players even more problematic.
"I rolled a Nat 20 on my Persuasion check, so will the king let me into his vault?"
DM: 'You have a -1 in Charisma. You make your argument sound as convincing and reasonable as possible, but the king regrets to say he still cannot let you in'
"I am not paying you $X per hour to be shutting down my ideas all night"
In a similar vein, I feel like all review options will run into the same issues that other review boards have. Unhappy customers making false or misleading reviews because of something you dont like. Imagine if every thread on D&D beyond complaining about a DMs interpretation or house rule also came with a 1-star tagged onto it. Or what if a particularly vindictive individual set up bot accounts to review bomb a DM they dont like.
I am not saying that a DM review service would be a bad thing, but I fear that there would be alot of work that would need to be done to make sure it is reliable and a good reflection of the DM. Since DM "skills" arent easy to quantify, it all comes down to personal opinions and qualitative aspects
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
But I will argue that the Mercer effect drives many many DM's and wanna be Internet stars to actually try it, and that harms the integrity of the game.
The Mercer effect, as it's generally defined, is that players who watch CritRole expect their DM to a) be as good as Matt Mercer and b) run their game the same way Matt does. Based on the above I assume you have a different understanding.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
At my local gaming shop, NO ONE charges to DM. Now, in a city about 30 minutes away, a gaming cafe where I also played for a while, has introduced a deal where every player forks over 150 bucks for six 4-5 hour sessions.
Gaming shops can be pay to play but you are paying for a space to play rather than the dm. In my local gaming shop the shop owner is the dm so 5he difference in clouded, but from a player point of view it is pay to play regardless of who gets the money.
Quote from DennisThePeasant>>The people I feel the most sorry for are the ones isolated by Covid or living in a small population centre with no critical mass of players and DM's, and have no choice but online games. They are trapped with this push towards monetized games.
I agree, I live in a small but growing town, what was a town gaming club was taken over by players whose style is shall we say ‘loud and shouty’, it works for some. I tried it years ago and really didn’t like it. A couple of friends play and from the way they describe it things haven’t changed and there have been no new members joining for many years. I am fortunate in having an extended friend group so am always able to game, and with online pick up groups I was either running or playing in as many as 6 different games per week during lockdown, though this is now reducing as people go back to work. So this week I have just been introduced to Westmarches gaming on discord. It gives people a lot of opportunity to play, it was confusing to begin with but after a settling in period I am really enjoying it. This week I am on holiday and have been able to join in multiple game sessions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Yeah, moreover, there's many a popular stream where it's clear characters are learning the rules via the GM, probably don't own the manuals but may have skimmed some cheat sheet on the internet, and we're talking games a little more mechanically challenging than D&D. There are also a lot of paid DMs (different from streams) who specialize in teaching game systems, sometimes actually just running the players through intro scenarios published with the game.
And while I'm generally anti soap box, before I order my burger, I want to just point out that one never has to buy "all the books" for any game system. The completist = better game kool aid so many drink I feel is more problematic to new (and most often young) gamers than paid gaming. It's confusing marketing with oxygen. It's D&D Inessentials, so to speak.
I'll never understand the personal offense some folks take to paying game market. The complainants aren't being shut out of anything except maybe playing with that specific DM (but as the objector previously said, being a DM ain't all that special) , it's not the direction the whole hobby is going in. It's like people who like to be cook being offended that restaurants exist. These markets just don't change anyone's personal relationship with the game. There's no disgrace in someone paying $ to make the hobby more convenient to them. Whether or not they report their income or not is a matter of their specific geographies tax law, one hater of paid DMs alleged tax cheats, and I'm sure some do, but I don't think any more or less than any other gig or freelance occupation (the reporting usually being proportional to the amount being made, which actually isn't smart for the low income filer because usually their benefits within the code they're missing out on) .
True, just some DMs are simply adept at turning their hobby into a service or product or production for which they can be compensated or otherwise materially supported. It doesn't destroy the hobby. Rather it probably leads to more people actually playing who otherwise wouldn't be putting in the effort in time and social capital. Paid DMing just isn't a problem to be solved by soap boxing (because it's not a problem). This is a thread where a apparent DM wanted to explore the paid space (at first it seemed they were making the false distinction that paid = better DMs, but it became apparent pretty quick that wasn't the case). Moralizing against the inquiry isn't really productive for anyone in the conversation. What is productive is providing the reality check of the varieties of ways game players find opportunities to monetize their hobby (making clear the distinction between a streamer and a DM for hire being key). Reality grounded in the material facts of the paid space will either encourage or dissuade them from to adapt their hobby into a venture. And none of it threatens the way anyone else plays.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The paid performers who are actually self-employed, can pretty much get any DM they want at this point and have tryouts to pick the one they like best, those paid perfomers. And the people on her other half dozen or so streams, and the groups she GM's for privately. No need to imply this is a sham because it's a public, for-profit game.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I'm not sure how this got around to the D&D "TV shows," which are a completely different kettle of fish...
... but back to the subject of DM reviews, and whether there should be some for paid DMs, and how much DMs should charge and so on.... I will say one thing. I can see a DM asking for help defraying the costs of DMing. For example, when I was running my now-on-hiatus campaign (while my friend DMs instead to give me a break from DMing after 18 months), I was paying about $15/mo. for a Zoom account, and about another $8/mo. (though paid annually) for World Anvil, which we use for campaign logs and such, and Forge, for hosting Foundry. That's $23/mo., and does not count buying books here, buying maps on Forge (sometimes, though rarely, since I mostly make my own), and the like.
Now, I have the money to pay for that, and it didn't squeeze my wallet an undue amount. Heck I've had the money to buy hardcover books or PDFs to games I'll likely never get to play, like Call of Cthulhu or Savage Worlds. BUT... if I had said to them, there are 5 of you, and this is costing me roughly $23/mo. to do, so I'd like us to each ante up $4 ($20 from the 5 of them, and I pay the $3+ to cover the rest), I don't think such a request would be unfair.
If you flip this to a paid stranger DM, who is paying that kind of money per month, then it is not unreasonable for the person to charge a small fee per person per month (or per session or what have you). I wouldn't DM if I couldn't afford to myself, but there's nothing that says that DMing needs to put you into the red. Even though it almost always does, for the majority of us.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Critical Role, the company, is owned and operated by the entire group. They pay themselves, in every sense of the word.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You're running into this trap of your preferred experience of D&D being D&D. It is certainly not the case of the present designers' the perspective of 5e that the game is "designed to play within a strict rule set now spanning thousands of pages of material." Just no. At least a third of that page count are explicitly portrayed as containing options for games. People who never leave the Essentials or the Basic Rules or what have you are playing the game "as designed." Nowhere in any of the rulebooks is there an insistence on strict adherence to the rules. Rather, the only time such a requirement is brought up is when it's dismissed as essential to the game. Even the grand arbiter of rules conflict "Sage Advice" prefaces with "A Dungeon Master adjudicates the game and determines whether to use an official ruling in play. The DM always has the final say on rules questions." So sure, a DM can draw players because they play 100% RAW BAR certified, whatever that means, but to say to play other than RAW is somehow deviating from the game's intent ... isn't even tilting at Windmills. It's protecting windmills from tilters who aren't going to do any harm to the windmill regardless of the defensive posture. It's an imaginary conflict with no real stakes. Much like paid DMing versus "DMing out of pure love's labor" (also known as "what every other DM does") or what have you.
As for the current Crit Role side story. The DM and at least half the cast were brought in to do something different than the past two seasons of CR as a break between seasons 2 and 3. I'm not even that hard core into the show (I think I may have heard total of five hours while washing dishes) and could see that were trying something a little different with a different style DM and some players with barely any experience of the game. I don't think there's anything wrong with it any more than I do the house rules the "mainstream" Crit Role engages in. They're both D&D to me.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
You folks should probably take arguments about Critical Role to a separate thread. It doesn't really pertain to reviewing and paid DMing.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Well to address your policing of what you feel the topic of this thread is, as you may have read, the OP oscillates between interest in being a paid DM and/or a streamer as a way to promote homebrew content, and how to assess a paid DM they may retain. I've made a number of efforts at teasing out the difference but a lot of anti DMs for hire also don't seem to recognize the difference. The formulation behind the initial query was inchoate and as it teased out it turned into a joint discussion of evaluating DMs and monetizing one's game. Whether CR is a realistic point of reference, I agree, is debatable but it's a constant reference for those who either don't or refuse to understand the variety of ways TTRPG play is monetized.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Things have definately changed over the last couple of years. In the early dayts of 5e a group of friends playing they want to play together they know that one person needs to be DM. The DM would need a DMG, MM and PHB while the players would need access to a PHB (I know you can play with just SRD but realistically after a few sessions you will want to expand) and possibly an published adventure it is possible the frineds would club together cover the cost or the players might take turns to provide drinks and snacks while the DM isn't in the rota. If you didn't have friends who wanted to play you could go to a game shop, these ran if different ways sometimes the shop provide DMs (possible unpaid but provided with books) the shop would charge the players for being there but this was often not thought of as "paid DMing".
With Covid the friends couldn't meet together and so online play has greatly expanded and so has the number of books. Players expect very few limitations on their character so if the player wants to be a Verdan Order domain Cleric with a courtier Background and optional features the DM needs to buy AI, GGtR, SCAG and Tasha's to know what they can do (at least with DnDBeyond they can buy the individual features but that is still $8 for that single PC).
At one end of the paid DM scale if the guy who doesn't want to make anything out of DMing but wants ot provide the players with a good experiance and not be out of pocket. He might spend $300 on books and get a master tier set up a fortnightly game and get his money back in 6 months.
At the other end of the scale is the person who wants to make a living doing what they love. In any area like this unless you are exceptionally good this means you will have ot be willing ot accept barely enough to live on. Say you enjoy watersports so you become an instructor at a watersports centre, because lots of people want such jobs and the centres compete against each other on price those instructors will most likely be on long hours at low wages. I of one full time DM who ran about 12 games a week so that was 36 hours just of game time prepping and communicating existing and potential new players probably doubled that. They charged $15 a session so might have been earning $40k per annum which is probably comparable with that watersports instructor. You can go sailing if you have a friend with a boat and the knowledge of how to sail but if you don't you will have to pay an instructor or not go. Is D&D that different. (The "exceptionally good" I referred to is the likes of Matt Mercer who I am sure could charge clients $100s for a session but instead lets 1000s enjoy his DMing by streaming his "performances" this is the equivalent of a professional elite sportsman on extremely well paid contracts or winning large amounts of prize money on a regular basis)
Another analogy I can think of is like healthcare in the UK. Lets assume you want ot play D&D but your friends don't so you try to join online applying via forums. There are DMs advertising games for free but when you post your application you will find maybe so do 50 others so it takes you a long time to get into a game as 90% of the time you are not chosen. If you ar ewilling ot pay however you can get into a game preetty much immediately, the DM may or may not be better than the ones who don't charge but you get to play without waiting and when you want. If you need elective surgery in the UK (say a hip replacment) you can either go on a waiting list and maybe get it done in 12 months (at government expense) or you pay to have it done privately straight away (quite possibly by the same surgeon)
I'm going to stick my head over the parapet and confess to being a 'professional DM'... sort of... not really.
My LFGS charges $5 entry and, for organised play, players pay the DM $5 each for the session. That's $10 entry for players. DMs also pay entry, but that goes straight to the AL organiser. So, with a minimum of 3 players and max of 6, I see $10-$25 per four hour session. Then there's DM's Guild modules which can cost just over $5 (I'm in Oz, so currency conversion). Of course, what's left goes back into the store by way of snack and mini purchases! So, yeah, no one is doing it for the money and I treat it as such. I'm aware the players are paying $10, but I don't do much more prep than I would for a home game.
I'd actually rather not get paid, but it's nice having the costs covered and the store doesn't have much trouble getting DMs. I guess the money is just an acknowledgement. Honestly, I never thought having to pay to play would work but the store is flourishing and I've only had one game cancelled due to lack of players. FYI, this store doesn't offer Magic - it's all RPGs and board games.
As for a rating system... it would be useless. My players seem to enjoy my games and would probably give me a good score, but I don't consider myself a good DM and frequently I ask them for rules clarifications (I don't run D&D often and prefer other systems). I don't think it would translate into a good experience for other kinds of players.
I currently get paid in taco dip and chips. Sometimes even donuts =)
While I think I do OK as a GM, I would be afraid of not being able to measure up to expectations.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
DMs obviously have specific tasks the players don't have to worry about, but it's still very much a cooperative game. Good DMs make players better but the reverse is true as well, and while paying players are in their right to have certain expectations of the DM who runs the game the fact that they are paying tends to make them more invested (well, they literally are). The standard to live up to might be high, but running for a group of invested players is also easier in some respects. And asking money, crudely put, weeds out a good percentage of annoying and frustrating players (which is good for the whole group, not just the DM).
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Nothing to feel bad about here....
AL has been doing this since the start of 5e so its a common practice. FLGS need income too and they are giving up space and time for people to come do organized play. I also think the DMs who do the AL should be compensated somehow because (this is my experience anyway) DMing in AL is ROUGH.
The Mercer effect is actually detrimental to DMs who set out to go pro (or at least paid): nothing like having to compete with an impossible standard. That aside though, all of this will get fixed by reality setting in. DMs who can't deliver quality or aren't willing to put in the work will lose customers. Streamers hoping to monetize will find out it's hard to get subscribers in a heavily saturated market. The cream will rise to the top and the rest will either continue for their own enjoyment or call it quits. No need to get worked up over other people trying to do something. They'll succeed, in which case your criticism was clearly unfounded, or they'll fail and you got worked up over nothing.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
My experience of paid DMs is they are no better free DMs but they are more accessible. Unless you are a personal friend of someone willing to DM you have to find one either in a game shop or on the internet. The number of players seeking willing DMs is far more than the number of players they are looking for so applying is like buying a lottery ticket. Being willing to pay things out the competition so it is much easier to get into a game.
I do not think reviews help much, you never know if the review was by the DM or their friend, or by someone with a grudge. I think the best approach is to ask the dm if you can listen in on a game before deciding if you want to play with them. That gives you an idea of their style and ability.
Its also just about availability....I am in a region where you have 0 luck finding a game IRL (especially with COVID but it was bad before).
So you have a few options:
1. Go online and take your luck with random folks who may or may not just decide to not show up/play in a way similar to your style. Its free but finding a game may take a long time....how much money is your time worth?
2. Pay a DM online to organize a game. It costs money but its the most surefire way to ensure you have an invested DM with invested players in the online setting.
3. Go to AL game nights. Depending on the location you may have to pay to play. Luck of the draw who you get. The DM has to stick with the module pretty closely so no real deviation from the path here.
4. Start a MeetUp or similar group for people and find a public place for you all to play in. COVID has limited this option greatly and its a little risky as you are meeting random people.
I did #4 for my group and got really lucky but it took time and effort and I offered to DM. Being a player and doing this is next to impossible almost but it can work out.
So I fully understand the draw for paid DMing and how it has become more common. I have no experience with it but the people who do seem to find it beneficial.
when i got back into DnD after 25 years, me and my friend searching for online games got EXTREMELY lucky. we met one of the friendliest, nicest guys who catered to new players. He put on a free one shot, then told us of campaigns he runs for $7 a session per person. He's Canadian too so it's not like it's real money! :)
Our first reaction was "pay for a DM? that's insane!" but after some experiences on Westmarches, and PUG. i get it. i still think some way overcharge, but if they get players, then more power to them. Like i said, i got lucky. A great DM that charges less than a movie ticket for 4 hours work.
I've seen third party sites where DM's are reviewed and listed so they can expand their business. My DM intentionally avoids those, otherwise i'd hype him up like crazy. But there are resources for that, how reliable they actually are is still to be seen.
I have never played in a game where someone paid to be a DM, nor have I charged for DMing a game, but I feel like with its benefits it could also make problem players even more problematic.
"I rolled a Nat 20 on my Persuasion check, so will the king let me into his vault?"
DM: 'You have a -1 in Charisma. You make your argument sound as convincing and reasonable as possible, but the king regrets to say he still cannot let you in'
"I am not paying you $X per hour to be shutting down my ideas all night"
In a similar vein, I feel like all review options will run into the same issues that other review boards have. Unhappy customers making false or misleading reviews because of something you dont like. Imagine if every thread on D&D beyond complaining about a DMs interpretation or house rule also came with a 1-star tagged onto it. Or what if a particularly vindictive individual set up bot accounts to review bomb a DM they dont like.
I am not saying that a DM review service would be a bad thing, but I fear that there would be alot of work that would need to be done to make sure it is reliable and a good reflection of the DM. Since DM "skills" arent easy to quantify, it all comes down to personal opinions and qualitative aspects
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
The Mercer effect, as it's generally defined, is that players who watch CritRole expect their DM to a) be as good as Matt Mercer and b) run their game the same way Matt does. Based on the above I assume you have a different understanding.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Gaming shops can be pay to play but you are paying for a space to play rather than the dm. In my local gaming shop the shop owner is the dm so 5he difference in clouded, but from a player point of view it is pay to play regardless of who gets the money.
I agree, I live in a small but growing town, what was a town gaming club was taken over by players whose style is shall we say ‘loud and shouty’, it works for some. I tried it years ago and really didn’t like it. A couple of friends play and from the way they describe it things haven’t changed and there have been no new members joining for many years. I am fortunate in having an extended friend group so am always able to game, and with online pick up groups I was either running or playing in as many as 6 different games per week during lockdown, though this is now reducing as people go back to work. So this week I have just been introduced to Westmarches gaming on discord. It gives people a lot of opportunity to play, it was confusing to begin with but after a settling in period I am really enjoying it. This week I am on holiday and have been able to join in multiple game sessions.