Maybe look into another, less roleplay focused system like Dungeon Crawl Classic or similar. Or perhaps dungeon crawling board games? D&D is a tabletop roleplaying game after all, so finding groups who don't want to RP is gonna be challenging. Explore other systems and other game types and hopefully you'll find a better fit for your prefered play style!
I really dislike this sort of response not only because it reeks of elitism and gatekeeping, but it's objectively false. It's history repeating itself, we have been down this road before.
The real issue, is a teenager posts in a forum that tentatively they want a particular style of game (a style of D&D that is all we played as 11/12 year olds)
and then a moderator comes along saying go play another game,
but the reality is they will never find another group of people to play some obscure game, because 95% of people are looking for D&D games.
I don't think there's anything wrong with playing a character that's basically a reflection of yourself. I think a lot of people do that to varying degrees. You can get by far just by responding to the world as if it's you in it and I don't think any DM should punish you for it.
Maybe look into another, less roleplay focused system like Dungeon Crawl Classic or similar. Or perhaps dungeon crawling board games? D&D is a tabletop roleplaying game after all, so finding groups who don't want to RP is gonna be challenging. Explore other systems and other game types and hopefully you'll find a better fit for your prefered play style!
I really dislike this sort of response not only because it reeks of elitism and gatekeeping, but it's objectively false. It's history repeating itself, we have been down this road before.
The real issue, is a teenager posts in a forum that tentatively they want a particular style of game (a style of D&D that is all we played as 11/12 year olds)
and then a moderator comes along saying go play another game,
but the reality is they will never find another group of people to play some obscure game, because 95% of people are looking for D&D games.
I would like to clarify, I was not saying "go play another game" as if to imply they stop playing D&D. As you can see by the text in your quote, I said "Maybe look into another, less roleplay focused system". I chose my words carefully to convey that they expand their TTRPG horizons, not stop playing D&D altogether.
Also there's nothing to suggest this person is a teen or even a younger player, but if that were the case, they might be even less aware of the sheer breadth of amazing game systems that exist outside of the sphere D&D occupies.
Finally, based on the roll20 ORR group industry report, the figure is closer to 53.7%. So while still high, I would not assume to discount ever finding a game other than D&D. Pendling the notion that D&D is the only TTRPG you should play because it's the only one you'll ever find harms the hobby, D&D included.
tl;dr - D&D is amazing, but it's not the only system out there and exploring lots of systems can be a great way to expand your horizons, experience new gameplay styles, and meet different types of players within the hobby.
As if Critical Role somehow defined a new way of playing roleplaying games. Thats simply not true. Lots of games have been played on a roleplay heavy focus long before Critical Role was even a thing or even before they actually entered the hobby. Having a focus on roleplaying was easily present in the 80's when i started playing. It was really more dependent on your DM and the style you as players wanted to play. Making Critical Role somehow the focus of "roleplay" is hilarious. Personally the influence of LARP games from the fantasy genre or gothic genre had a far greater influence in my area and the people i started playing with than Critical Role could ever have. Not to mention that certain games outside of D&D catered more to a roleplay then a dice first approach - like KULT, World of Darkness or Call of Cthulhu just to mention a few that come into my mind from way back when.
I've been a long-time player of D&D. I love the sense of adventure, the combat, the dungeon crawling, the fact that you can make a character however you wish (in mechanical terms). But One thing I have always struggled with is Role-Play. I really do not like to Role-Play; I never have, and more-than-likely never will (but if you do, that's completely A-Okay). To put it simply: I cannot put myself in another person's shoes AT ALL, even characters I create;I really try, but it always ends up being some reflection of what I-as-a-person would do in that situation.
This becomes a major problem in several of the groups I have been in the past. The Longer-Lasting groups I've been in do not place high priority on RP. But I find myself not getting along with players who do nothing but RP. I have had problems largely since other players get completely lost in-character, when I'm just trying to be a straight shooter and get to the next plot point the DM has in store; even when the group establishes methods to clarify RP & Player speak, they are too in-character to notice. And I've been kicked out of several groups simply because I'm not good with Role-Play; Which, by the way, I had established very well with that DM that it is something I struggle with, and when I was actually getting along well with the other players. Hell, that DM would only base XP on Roleplay, and would ALWAYS give me the lowest of the group despite my best efforts. Essentially, I have had ZERO positive experience with players who RP.
Am I doing something wrong, or is it I just got unlucky with other players? And how should I deal with those excessive Roleplayers?
You can't really do something "wrong" really. You might simply enjoy it differently compared to the people you are playing with. Thats something you most likely will run into a gazillion of times online or with groups you first start to play with. Its a process of getting to know each other and feel out if the interests and playstyle align or align enough to have a good time together. When i started in the hobby - i was super young and as such roleplay wasn't the first thing up my mind. To a barebones degree at first and sure not able to get the stuff flowing in a way that i would be able to actually view things from another perspective.
If you're not much into roleplay i'm sure that you are able to find a group that is playing D&D more on the strategical level and dungeon crawl approach. Lots of older crowds play it like this as it was kind of popular during the early days and outside of some editions efforts to actually avoid combat (looking at you - OD&D editions) the game has always centered itself around fighting and defeating your enemies with a minimal effort on roleplay.
D&D is what you make out of it in the end with your friends and fellow gamers. For some its a deep dive into roleplay - for others its the strategical masterclass game and for lots its something in betweeen. You can easily enjoy it the way you like now - and who knows. Over the years your taste and style might change. Mine did for sure.
Just talk to the people you play with or find the right group to make the game as enjoyable as possible. No need to keep quiet if a little chat can solve things for you for the better. Communication is key. ;)
I don't quite get why "I as the player would do in that situation" isn't roleplaying. Are we required to play as someone we're not? That would be a rule of which I was not aware.
Michael Galvis on twitter:
Did it hurt?
When you practiced a voice for your D&D character and then forgot it when the game started?
Me in response:
"Your character sounds like you always do." "I know. I practiced on that voice for decades!"
If your character isn't disruptive regardless if the character's simply you in-game, I don't know why anyone would complain.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I'm not sure, either, assuming you're also paying some heed to the given circumstances (you're in a given fantasy world, with a particular feel, the players you're playing with have X amount of buy-in on that, etc).
This is one of the reasons why I use milestone advancement, I as a DM do not care if a player is a great role-player I just want them to have fun and enjoy the game, roleplaying will show in some way. As soon as the player states I'm gonna sneak around and try to get behind them before attacking is roleplaying some folks have stage fright or are just shy them playing a character in their comfort zone is all I want.
I am going to duck out of this discussion as it appears my status as moderator is obfuscating my point and that's not something that everyone can see past. I do want to say that there was no intent to gatekeep D&D, simply a desire to encourage people to expand their RPG horizons, especially if D&D isn't meeting their expectations. I apologise to anyone I may have upset with my suggestion.
To put it simply: I cannot put myself in another person's shoes AT ALL, even characters I create;I really try, but it always ends up being some reflection of what I-as-a-person would do in that situation.
Idon'tknowif you've noticed, but professional actors do the samething. That's why all of Tom Cruise's characters or Tom Hank's charactersarethe same.
Indeed and I think the main point here is that the players are not characters in a movie, they are characters in a game, specifically a fantasy adventure game. As a player, you are supposed to impose yourself on your character, when its your turn to act you are supposed to do what you think is a good idea. A fantasy adventure is a game with challenges, part of the game is using your brain muscle and coming up with clever ways to overcome whatever obstacles and challenges come your way in collaboration with your fellow players, not act dumb just because you are a Half-Orc with an IQ of 8 and set off every trap on purpose because "your character is stupid so its what they would do". You are your character, the concept of role in role-playing is less about funny voices and improv and far more about controlling an avatar in a fictional fantasy adventure. If anything is true about role-playing is that you sort of find excuses for why your character would do stuff you as a player want to do, not the other way around.
I beg to disagree. That is your opinion only and not which you can shoehorn on how generally everyone is approaching the game and his character. Lots of players play the game reactionary to the developing story and actually try to approach character actions through the narrative that developed during the game and not "i wanna do that - so what stupid excuse can i come up with to make it fit my character." Roleplaying games have always been a great tool to walk in another ones shoes and see actions / the world through different eyes. If you play pen & paper games simply on the basis "what would i do" the amount you can learn from the game suddenly becomes a lot less interesting and (hot take) creativity starts to die on a minefield of pure self serving interest. Like railroading your character on a certain path no matter what.
What i learned over the years is that "the other way around" for 3 dimensional characters works way better. The most influence i have over my characters actions are when i create him and the setup the backstory and ambitions that he starts with. After that - its mostly a result of the events in the game world and adapting to those and the characters around him and see how things will impact his desires and what new paths open up to explore.
And thats the approach i have no matter if the game i play in contains 10% roleplay and 90% combat or 90% roleplay and 10% combat. And while it seems that somehow you think that this is strange - a gazillion people who haven't started with D&D, started at a certain point in history with D&D, played with certain types of DMs in their life etc will sure have similar approaches.
You should actually accept that the "norm" of playing the game is far from what you imagine it to be. There are things beyond your little island. D&D and RPGs are a vast mix of playstyles and while certain playstyles have been more dominant in the 70's or 80's - in 2021 the amount of people crossing over from different games and styles has made the environment a fruity loops thats so vastly different that whatever you say can simply lose its meaning around the next corner.
I am going to duck out of this discussion as it appears my status as moderator is obfuscating my point and that's not something that everyone can see past. I do want to say that there was no intent to gatekeep D&D, simply a desire to encourage people to expand their RPG horizons, especially if D&D isn't meeting their expectations. I apologise to anyone I may have upset with my suggestion.
The idea that you feel you have to do this just shows how ****ed up the current social norm has become sometimes. Pretty ironic.
To suggest that a D&D player looking to have a fantasy adventure as described in the how to play section of the book is given a suggestion that maybe he is playing the wrong game is more than just a ridiculous suggestion, it is a complete misreading of what D&D, as defined in the players handbook, is about.
You are reading too much into things and trying to create your own narrative about things that aren't really there.
Roleplaying has been part of D&D and the hobby for ages. And while 5th edition features a seperate intro later in the book - earlier editions put examples for roleplay being based on abilities and alignment without describing the style of roleplay - but it being based upon these factors or mentioned rewarding good roleplay with experience points. The reason for me why roleplay has not been defined in the books in detail is simply to not put a label on how to correclty roleplay your character but to keep roleplay as broad and free as possible. And so far - i don't see a reason why this would change now or in the future - no matter your narrative.
A theatrical approach is not even something most players are capable of or actually thrive to achieve. Not even Critical Role has somehow a level of "theatrical roleplay" thats either constantly good or somehow above the level of a good saturday night pub story. They have their moments based on their voice acting ability - that doesn't mean everything that comes out their mouths is pure gold or somehow some high level theatrical drama worth an oscar. I don't get that at all. They are able to entertain their audience and brought attention to more people regarding the hobby - great freaking job. You might not like the sudden spotlight of their approach to D&D - but that doesn't mean its either the only way or somehow people think its the only way to play d&d - it might just be their preferred way and as in life - you will have to live with the preferences of others not fitting your own.
There are lots of degrees of roleplay from a direct or indirect approach and the skills of those portraying a character varies by the milky ways radius.
This whole obsession with Critical Role and their influence on the hobby is so blown out of proportions that i feel you are trying very hard to gatekeep people from pursuing their own way of playing the game. Even more if it doesn't fit your own narrative. The way you try to argue for inclusion is not working for me but doing the opposite.
No one was actually telling him to not play D&D. Suggesting to broaden your horizon and take a look into other games might not be what you would do - but that doesn't mean its a bad thing to do in the first place. Other games offer different mechanics that might currently attract more people of a specific playstyle. Trying to paint a suggestion as gatekeeping so such a freaking stretch.
To recap for the OP. Your style of play is fully supported by D&D 5e by design. You're not using the wrong system, you're simply in the wrong group. I suggest finding one that is a little less exclusive and a bit more welcoming and tolerant to different playstyles.
That sounds like a stronger indictment of groups than is justified for simply playing the way they like to play. It doesn't make them exclusive, insufficiently welcoming or intolerant.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The way I see it, before I became disabled, I taught martial arts. Specifically, I taught Kempo. I am familiar with other martial arts as well, though. If a student came in and they were looking for a sport, something with competition, I wouldn't tell them that Kempo is for them. We don't have tournaments in that style. I would direct them to another martial arts school. I want them to be happy. I want them to be fit take a regular exercise.
Directing somebody to something else that mightbetter fit their needs is not gatekeeping.
Thank you all for providing your opinions. As this is a direct request from a user regarding their situation, all the recent back and forth is becoming off-topic. Please take personal argument or debate to Private Message from this point.
Let's refocus the thread back to addressing the OP and their scenario/struggle rather than the merits of role-playing and/or 'how to play D&D' in general.
To recap for the OP. Your style of play is fully supported by D&D 5e by design. You're not using the wrong system, you're simply in the wrong group. I suggest finding one that is a little less exclusive and a bit more welcoming and tolerant to different playstyles.
That sounds like a stronger indictment of groups than is justified for simply playing the way they like to play. It doesn't make them exclusive, insufficiently welcoming or intolerant.
Really? A group in which the DM judges your role-playing capabilities and determines how much XP your performance is worth, giving you less if you don't perform up to their standards and ultimately kicks you out of the group because you're not good enough of a role-player. I thought I was being very diplomatic and polite.
That was one of a bunch of previous groups, and not necessarily exemplary of the lot of them. OP noted that the longer-running groups they've been part of didn't emphasize roleplay too much and that they themselves had problems with players for playing differently; OP also noted that he got along well with the other players in that group, their issue in that particular case was apparently solely with the DM.
In short, tolerance works both ways. OP is justified in wanting to play the way they do, other players are justified in wanting something else. Wanting that is not intolerance, having problems with others because of it is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
only this table was full of the kinds of players who get completely lost in character and would actually grind the DM's homebrew to a screeching hault. So please don't assume that D&D would be a poor fit for me.
(Also, yes, you VERY MUCH sound like a gatekeeper)
Don't know if I'm the "you" above, but I didn't assume D&D would be a poor fit for you nor, I believe, did I imply as much. I do think it's no more a poor fit for those players who "get lost in character" than it is for you, however.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The real issue, is a teenager posts in a forum that tentatively they want a particular style of game (a style of D&D that is all we played as 11/12 year olds)
and then a moderator comes along saying go play another game,
but the reality is they will never find another group of people to play some obscure game, because 95% of people are looking for D&D games.
I don't think there's anything wrong with playing a character that's basically a reflection of yourself. I think a lot of people do that to varying degrees. You can get by far just by responding to the world as if it's you in it and I don't think any DM should punish you for it.
I would like to clarify, I was not saying "go play another game" as if to imply they stop playing D&D. As you can see by the text in your quote, I said "Maybe look into another, less roleplay focused system". I chose my words carefully to convey that they expand their TTRPG horizons, not stop playing D&D altogether.
Also there's nothing to suggest this person is a teen or even a younger player, but if that were the case, they might be even less aware of the sheer breadth of amazing game systems that exist outside of the sphere D&D occupies.
Finally, based on the roll20 ORR group industry report, the figure is closer to 53.7%. So while still high, I would not assume to discount ever finding a game other than D&D. Pendling the notion that D&D is the only TTRPG you should play because it's the only one you'll ever find harms the hobby, D&D included.
tl;dr - D&D is amazing, but it's not the only system out there and exploring lots of systems can be a great way to expand your horizons, experience new gameplay styles, and meet different types of players within the hobby.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
As if Critical Role somehow defined a new way of playing roleplaying games. Thats simply not true. Lots of games have been played on a roleplay heavy focus long before Critical Role was even a thing or even before they actually entered the hobby. Having a focus on roleplaying was easily present in the 80's when i started playing. It was really more dependent on your DM and the style you as players wanted to play. Making Critical Role somehow the focus of "roleplay" is hilarious. Personally the influence of LARP games from the fantasy genre or gothic genre had a far greater influence in my area and the people i started playing with than Critical Role could ever have. Not to mention that certain games outside of D&D catered more to a roleplay then a dice first approach - like KULT, World of Darkness or Call of Cthulhu just to mention a few that come into my mind from way back when.
You can't really do something "wrong" really. You might simply enjoy it differently compared to the people you are playing with. Thats something you most likely will run into a gazillion of times online or with groups you first start to play with. Its a process of getting to know each other and feel out if the interests and playstyle align or align enough to have a good time together. When i started in the hobby - i was super young and as such roleplay wasn't the first thing up my mind. To a barebones degree at first and sure not able to get the stuff flowing in a way that i would be able to actually view things from another perspective.
If you're not much into roleplay i'm sure that you are able to find a group that is playing D&D more on the strategical level and dungeon crawl approach. Lots of older crowds play it like this as it was kind of popular during the early days and outside of some editions efforts to actually avoid combat (looking at you - OD&D editions) the game has always centered itself around fighting and defeating your enemies with a minimal effort on roleplay.
D&D is what you make out of it in the end with your friends and fellow gamers. For some its a deep dive into roleplay - for others its the strategical masterclass game and for lots its something in betweeen. You can easily enjoy it the way you like now - and who knows. Over the years your taste and style might change. Mine did for sure.
Just talk to the people you play with or find the right group to make the game as enjoyable as possible. No need to keep quiet if a little chat can solve things for you for the better. Communication is key. ;)
I don't quite get why "I as the player would do in that situation" isn't roleplaying. Are we required to play as someone we're not? That would be a rule of which I was not aware.
Michael Galvis on twitter:
Did it hurt?
When you practiced a voice for your D&D character and then forgot it when the game started?
Me in response:
"Your character sounds like you always do."
"I know. I practiced on that voice for decades!"
If your character isn't disruptive regardless if the character's simply you in-game, I don't know why anyone would complain.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I'm not sure, either, assuming you're also paying some heed to the given circumstances (you're in a given fantasy world, with a particular feel, the players you're playing with have X amount of buy-in on that, etc).
This is one of the reasons why I use milestone advancement, I as a DM do not care if a player is a great role-player I just want them to have fun and enjoy the game, roleplaying will show in some way. As soon as the player states I'm gonna sneak around and try to get behind them before attacking is roleplaying some folks have stage fright or are just shy them playing a character in their comfort zone is all I want.
I am going to duck out of this discussion as it appears my status as moderator is obfuscating my point and that's not something that everyone can see past. I do want to say that there was no intent to gatekeep D&D, simply a desire to encourage people to expand their RPG horizons, especially if D&D isn't meeting their expectations. I apologise to anyone I may have upset with my suggestion.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Idon'tknowif you've noticed, but professional actors do the samething. That's why all of Tom Cruise's characters or Tom Hank's charactersarethe same.
I beg to disagree. That is your opinion only and not which you can shoehorn on how generally everyone is approaching the game and his character. Lots of players play the game reactionary to the developing story and actually try to approach character actions through the narrative that developed during the game and not "i wanna do that - so what stupid excuse can i come up with to make it fit my character." Roleplaying games have always been a great tool to walk in another ones shoes and see actions / the world through different eyes. If you play pen & paper games simply on the basis "what would i do" the amount you can learn from the game suddenly becomes a lot less interesting and (hot take) creativity starts to die on a minefield of pure self serving interest. Like railroading your character on a certain path no matter what.
What i learned over the years is that "the other way around" for 3 dimensional characters works way better. The most influence i have over my characters actions are when i create him and the setup the backstory and ambitions that he starts with. After that - its mostly a result of the events in the game world and adapting to those and the characters around him and see how things will impact his desires and what new paths open up to explore.
And thats the approach i have no matter if the game i play in contains 10% roleplay and 90% combat or 90% roleplay and 10% combat. And while it seems that somehow you think that this is strange - a gazillion people who haven't started with D&D, started at a certain point in history with D&D, played with certain types of DMs in their life etc will sure have similar approaches.
You should actually accept that the "norm" of playing the game is far from what you imagine it to be. There are things beyond your little island. D&D and RPGs are a vast mix of playstyles and while certain playstyles have been more dominant in the 70's or 80's - in 2021 the amount of people crossing over from different games and styles has made the environment a fruity loops thats so vastly different that whatever you say can simply lose its meaning around the next corner.
The idea that you feel you have to do this just shows how ****ed up the current social norm has become sometimes. Pretty ironic.
You are reading too much into things and trying to create your own narrative about things that aren't really there.
Roleplaying has been part of D&D and the hobby for ages. And while 5th edition features a seperate intro later in the book - earlier editions put examples for roleplay being based on abilities and alignment without describing the style of roleplay - but it being based upon these factors or mentioned rewarding good roleplay with experience points. The reason for me why roleplay has not been defined in the books in detail is simply to not put a label on how to correclty roleplay your character but to keep roleplay as broad and free as possible. And so far - i don't see a reason why this would change now or in the future - no matter your narrative.
A theatrical approach is not even something most players are capable of or actually thrive to achieve. Not even Critical Role has somehow a level of "theatrical roleplay" thats either constantly good or somehow above the level of a good saturday night pub story. They have their moments based on their voice acting ability - that doesn't mean everything that comes out their mouths is pure gold or somehow some high level theatrical drama worth an oscar. I don't get that at all. They are able to entertain their audience and brought attention to more people regarding the hobby - great freaking job. You might not like the sudden spotlight of their approach to D&D - but that doesn't mean its either the only way or somehow people think its the only way to play d&d - it might just be their preferred way and as in life - you will have to live with the preferences of others not fitting your own.
There are lots of degrees of roleplay from a direct or indirect approach and the skills of those portraying a character varies by the milky ways radius.
This whole obsession with Critical Role and their influence on the hobby is so blown out of proportions that i feel you are trying very hard to gatekeep people from pursuing their own way of playing the game. Even more if it doesn't fit your own narrative. The way you try to argue for inclusion is not working for me but doing the opposite.
No one was actually telling him to not play D&D. Suggesting to broaden your horizon and take a look into other games might not be what you would do - but that doesn't mean its a bad thing to do in the first place. Other games offer different mechanics that might currently attract more people of a specific playstyle. Trying to paint a suggestion as gatekeeping so such a freaking stretch.
That sounds like a stronger indictment of groups than is justified for simply playing the way they like to play. It doesn't make them exclusive, insufficiently welcoming or intolerant.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The way I see it, before I became disabled, I taught martial arts. Specifically, I taught Kempo. I am familiar with other martial arts as well, though. If a student came in and they were looking for a sport, something with competition, I wouldn't tell them that Kempo is for them. We don't have tournaments in that style. I would direct them to another martial arts school. I want them to be happy. I want them to be fit take a regular exercise.
Directing somebody to something else that mightbetter fit their needs is not gatekeeping.
Thank you all for providing your opinions. As this is a direct request from a user regarding their situation, all the recent back and forth is becoming off-topic. Please take personal argument or debate to Private Message from this point.
Let's refocus the thread back to addressing the OP and their scenario/struggle rather than the merits of role-playing and/or 'how to play D&D' in general.
Thank you.
That was one of a bunch of previous groups, and not necessarily exemplary of the lot of them. OP noted that the longer-running groups they've been part of didn't emphasize roleplay too much and that they themselves had problems with players for playing differently; OP also noted that he got along well with the other players in that group, their issue in that particular case was apparently solely with the DM.
In short, tolerance works both ways. OP is justified in wanting to play the way they do, other players are justified in wanting something else. Wanting that is not intolerance, having problems with others because of it is.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Don't know if I'm the "you" above, but I didn't assume D&D would be a poor fit for you nor, I believe, did I imply as much. I do think it's no more a poor fit for those players who "get lost in character" than it is for you, however.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Sorry, I was actually trying to reply to someone else. The website instead turned it into a general post