If you mean the theatrical attitude, the voices, the mannerisms...I wouldn't expect that at my table. Of you could do it, that'd be great, and I'd reward you for it (I'd use my sense of your comfort as a baseline, so it wouldn't be based on skill but your effort), but I wouldn't punish you for not doing it. I'd find an alternative rubric for rewarding your involvement instead. Generally speaking, I don't think DMs should insist - unless they explicitly state the expectation prior to starting the game.
If you mean playing as someone else, then I have to wonder if D&D is for you. That's not gatekeeping, just more of a concern for you. It's an RPG and I find that most of the enjoyment comes from seeing how characters interact and how the story goes for them. The best fights in films aren't merely contests of strength or skill, but tell stories during the fight. That only really comes from role-playing - playing your character. The reason why the throne room fight is so good is because it's telling us the story of Luke struggling with the darkside - not just that he's capable of fighting and winning against Vader, but the fight going in inside of him between the light and the dark.
That doesn't mean the character can't be similar to you. That doesn't meant that the character had to be you, either. We are all multifaceted and have different aspects to our personality. Pick an aspect and exaggerate it, base a character around it. I always do this - all my characters share something in common with me. My first character was very intellectual, my second was very a Paladin that had very strong convictions when it comes to morality and my third is a gnomish artificer who is a bit of a prankster. None are identical to me, but their core personalities contain an aspect of mine. It's much easier to RP a character by leaning in to my own.
If playing a character doesn't appeal to you, then there must be a similar game that is more optimised for just completing objectives? Alternatively, I guess you could build terminator style character that has a similar mentality, but innafraid you'll always be frustrated because the others will want to play the game more true to their characters.
Believe me, I've played D&D for several years and overall have had positive experiences with the game. And as I stated the best, longest-lasting tables I've been in never put heavy emphasis on RP, much less Method-Acting RP. It was much more about going along with the plot. I'm just stuck in a runt since I got into a new group after a year off of D&D because of the pandemic, only this table was full of the kinds of players who get completely lost in character and would actually grind the DM's homebrew to a screeching hault. So please don't assume that D&D would be a poor fit for me
(Also, yes, you VERY MUCH sound like a gatekeeper)
OSR - I believe it means Old School Rules, at least I read it that way - using 1e-3.5e or alternate systems or sticking some of that into 5e.
modern D&D movement? Not as sure of this but I think he is talking about some of the younger/newer players that like a lot of drama at their tables. To some extent I see this as a reaction to changes in modern society 40 years ago the drama group broke away from D&D to start the LARPing industry, but today it’s getting somewhat difficult to find places that will let you walk around in costume with weapons out other than a sanctioned SCA event so they are returning to the tables. Some of these want the whole table to be doing the acting, others are content to do it themselves as part of a quieter group.
To the OP, I believe you are in the wrong group. We don't agree on some aspects of playing and enjoying D&D, but I would not enjoy playing in the group you describe. I also favor milestone or some other advancement system that advances the party together. Anything else seems like it would pit the players against one another to attempt to get the XP that will be distributed. And the idea that a DM would exclusively award XP for roleplay just doesn't work for me.
DMs can do what they think best, but that table wouldn't work for me. I'm sure there is a table out there for you.
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Believe me, I've played D&D for several years and overall have had positive experiences with the game. And as I stated the best, longest-lasting tables I've been in never put heavy emphasis on RP, much less Method-Acting RP. It was much more about going along with the plot. I'm just stuck in a runt since I got into a new group after a year off of D&D because of the pandemic, only this table was full of the kinds of players who get completely lost in character and would actually grind the DM's homebrew to a screeching hault. So please don't assume that D&D would be a poor fit for me
(Also, yes, you VERY MUCH sound like a gatekeeper)
The DnD Beyond community is a bit of a unique sub-culture in the D&D community at large in regards to what appears to be consensus about their prefered style of play, but heavy emphasis on RP has never really been nor is it now a major factor in your typical D&D table game despite efforts to re-write D&D history by so many people. While you can kind of view the D&D Beyond community as a sort of vocal minority this style and approach to D&D is definitely growing at an astonishing pace and I to be honest even I can understand the appeal of deep role-playing experience, it can be really fun. Naturally, it's not for everyone but, I do think going forward you can expect more and more groups to adopt this style of play, it is kind of the thing now.
The OSR has generally been a sort of reaction to this, where many D&D players are realizing that not only is the modern D&D community really not all that welcoming of their style of play, but the systems themselves have been developing into directions away from the sort of more traditional style of play D&D has always been based on. It started with 3e with 4e being kind of the height of that sort of design, but with 5e it has reverted and many consider the 5e system to be part of the OSR (myself included) as it really does deliver on that old school style of play assuming you aren't listening to the way the OSR movement often re-writes D&D history (yes they are guilty of it too). In terms of system, I believe you are using the right one for what you want out of the game.
There are a couple of extremes here, but I think most people who play and have been playing D&D for years aren't necessarily excited to roll up AD&D characters with THAC0 and other nonsense just to get a good fantasy adventure going, but at the same time they don't exactly want to see a guy using a Scottish accent and crying at the table because his character's story is so deep. I think it's fair to assume and say that most D&D players are looking for some middle ground between the extremes of the OSR and the modern D&D movement illustrated by shows like Critical Role.
I think the simple answer generally is that it's just about finding the right group which sucks because you would think all D&D groups would welcome all players, but as you can see from the many responses and attitudes here, that really isn't the case. The suggestion that you might consider looking at other systems because your style of play is not really covered by 5e is terrible advice and untrue, but I do think you might look to the OSR community for players. Most OSR players contrary to popular belief aren't THAC0 die-hards at all, 5e remains one of the central systems in the OSR to either base games on (like Five Torches Deep) or use directly sometimes with variant rules like 5e Hardcore Mode or just as is with some of the optional rules in the DMG. Now this can be tougher to do if you are not into online play and want to do it in person.
It's a bummer, I feel for you, finding a good D&D group that welcomes you and lets you play D&D however you like is unfortunately not as easy these days, the divisions in the community about playstyles and expectations have become quite rigid but finding a new group I still think it's the best advice you have gotten so far.
With all due respect, how does this imply anything other than the suggestion Davyd made that you subsequently shot down?
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With all due respect, how does this imply anything other than the suggestion Davyd made that you subsequently shot down?
Maybe look into another, less roleplay focused system like Dungeon Crawl Classic or similar. Or perhaps dungeon crawling board games? - Davyd
His suggestion.
finding a new group I still think it's the best advice you have gotten so far.
My suggestion.
I hope you see the difference here, in particular given the OP's opening remarks. His issue is clearly an issue with his gaming group and not the game.
Seriously, he suggested, hey how about you quit D&D and go find yourself a board game to play. Now I understand and acknowledge that it was not Davyd's intention to come of rude or insulting, but I think even within the context of the conversation, that was pretty harsh. I'm 100% certain had I made a remark like that on the forum, I would have gotten dinged by the moderators for breaking the forum rules, even if my intentions were good.
He also (and first) suggested DCC, which is literally old school adventure implementations of D&D. Far as I can tell, his suggestion had more to with chances of finding a likeminded group outside "mainstream" D&D than outside D&D period.
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He also (and first) suggested DCC, which is literally old school adventure implementations of D&D. Far as I can tell, his suggestion had more to with chances of finding a likeminded group outside "mainstream" D&D than outside D&D period.
M8 come, I know Davyd is a good guy and he meant well and wasn't trying to insult, insinuate anything or be rude in anyway. I see no reason to dispute that but you can't seriously defend the idea that a D&D 5e fan who is having trouble with a gaming group over a style of play that is definitively a D&D 5e style of play, literally what the game is designed to be, who comes to a 5e fan forum for advice to hear one of the moderators suggesting that perhaps he should go play some other game or perhaps quit altogether and try a board game.
Sounded more like "could" than "should" to me and, as you have pointed out many times, older editions and OSR and the like are, very much, D&D. Looking into that is not quitting D&D. To bring it back to Sedge's words, it's not about the merits of roleplaying or how to play D&D, it's about OP getting to play with likeminded people - and likeminded people are possibly easier to find with groups that play versions of D&D that emphasize the same things OP likes to emphasize. That's all, I don't think anyone wanted to make more of it than that.
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That Actually defeats the purpose of asking what I should do since I explicitly stated I do not like roleplay and never will. I'm not writing a novel or screenplay, I'm just here to play a game, which is what D&D is at its core. And I'm never going to waste my time writing backstories and personalities to an avatar that in the end won't make a difference and affect nothing. Your description of what roleplay is actually makes me LESS inclined to do so.
“And I'm never going to waste my time writing backstories and personalities to an avatar that in the end won't make a difference and affect nothing.”
Are you saying that your avatar doesn’t make a difference and affects nothing or the backstory and personality you create for your avatar don’t make a difference and affect nothing?
Re-reading the discussion, pretty sure I know the answer though I still am curious. I think you have been given the best advice there is already: find a group that is better suited to your playstyle.
”Are you saying that your avatar doesn’t make a difference and affects nothing or the backstory and personality you create for your avatar don’t make a difference and affect nothing?”
It doesn’t affect anything. I couldn’t care less about creating a backstory for a character, because it doesn’t matter. Nor do I understand or comprehend why some players would waste their time creating long, detailed descriptions about their characters, only for said descriptions to NEVER impact the campaign in any meaningful way. My avatar is an avatar, not an actual person. It’s just a pawn in a game, nothing less & nothing more. If I was writing a novel or creating a script/screenplay, then I would actually put in the effort to flesh out a character & give them a personality. But that is not the point of D&D. D&D is meant to be a game where players work together & go on an adventure, NOT an acting competition where characters create 3-page backstories for their characters & hog the spotlight away from everyone else who just want to explore dungeons and fight enemies (believe me, that’s happened to me from other players too many times). It’s just an absurd waste of time if you play it that way.
D&D is meant to be a game where players work together & go on an adventure, NOT an acting competition where characters create 3-page backstories for their characters & hog the spotlight away from everyone else who just want to explore dungeons and fight enemies (believe me, that’s happened to me from other players too many times). It’s just an absurd waste of time if you play it that way.
I would refrain from proclaiming what D&D is and what D&D is not.
It is a very different thing to different people and users should not exhibit themselves as an expert (or in some instances, gatekeeper) in certain respects. If groups or DMs want to incorporate backstories and tailer their games to such role-play, they can (and certainly do).
D&D is meant to be a game where players work together & go on an adventure, NOT an acting competition where characters create 3-page backstories for their characters & hog the spotlight away from everyone else who just want to explore dungeons and fight enemies (believe me, that’s happened to me from other players too many times).
I mean, D&D was created by adding roleplaying aspects to Chainmail, a tactical wargame. What's the point of all these racial identities and backgrounds (the ones you pick during character creation, not backstories)? Why is there such a thing as alignment, and why does the PHB include bonds and flaws, if not because roleplaying is expected to be part of D&D? Suggesting you should maybe try something other than D&D is apparently bad form, but I can't help but think something like Gloomhaven is exactly what you seem to want from D&D - exploring dungeons and fighting enemies - without all the pesky roleplaying you don't want from D&D.
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Any DMs that award inspiration for a player doing excellent strategic decisions in combat? It seems that roleplay is held at a higher regard in general compared to game skill.
Any DMs that award inspiration for a player doing excellent strategic decisions in combat? It seems that roleplay is held at a higher regard in general compared to game skill.
”Are you saying that your avatar doesn’t make a difference and affects nothing or the backstory and personality you create for your avatar don’t make a difference and affect nothing?”
It doesn’t affect anything. I couldn’t care less about creating a backstory for a character, because it doesn’t matter. Nor do I understand or comprehend why some players would waste their time creating long, detailed descriptions about their characters, only for said descriptions to NEVER impact the campaign in any meaningful way. My avatar is an avatar, not an actual person. It’s just a pawn in a game, nothing less & nothing more. If I was writing a novel or creating a script/screenplay, then I would actually put in the effort to flesh out a character & give them a personality. But that is not the point of D&D. D&D is meant to be a game where players work together & go on an adventure, NOT an acting competition where characters create 3-page backstories for their characters & hog the spotlight away from everyone else who just want to explore dungeons and fight enemies (believe me, that’s happened to me from other players too many times). It’s just an absurd waste of time if you play it that way.
Well, to be frank, “absurd” is coming to a site dedicated to a role playing game and complaining that your role playing game involves role playing. It’s literally the name of the game: “Dungeons and Dragons Role Playing Game”. That said, there are other players similar to you; ones who want to role play less or not at all in favour of the mechanical side of things. You just have to find them. Instead of complaining about the people you don’t enjoy playing with, move on and find some that you do :)
BTW, I totally disagree that character backgrounds and details are meaningless and have no impact on the game but I don’t need to agree. I have a group of people who agree with me that I play with. You need to find people that agree with you and play with them.
D&D is collaborative story telling. There are a million dungeon crawling board games out there, and it sounds like that's what you want - a collaborative fantasy adventure board game focused on combat. That's not D&D (typically), and insisting others conform to your board game version of it seems really short-sighted. No one has ever needed elaborate back story. No one has ever needed to be a great actor (ever). You do have to carry your story telling weight, though. That goes beyond optimization and tactical game play.
D&D is collaborative story telling. There are a million dungeon crawling board games out there, and it sounds like that's what you want - a collaborative fantasy adventure board game focused on combat. That's not D&D (typically), and insisting others conform to your board game version of it seems really short-sighted. No one has ever needed elaborate back story. No one has ever needed to be a great actor (ever). You do have to carry your story telling weight, though. That goes beyond optimization and tactical game play.
As sedge said a few posts back, it’s not useful to say what D&D is or is not. You can play a dungeon crawl with little character development, and that’s still D&D. Indeed, it’s how lots of people have played for decades. You can play with heavy role play and stay in character for hours, and that’s D&D. The only “correct” version is where everyone is having fun.
Sure, but there's a clear sense of entitlement at play here, with this one person insisting that the game *not* ask anything of him in terms of character or storytelling. That's fine if you find that sort of table, but they're very rare.
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Believe me, I've played D&D for several years and overall have had positive experiences with the game. And as I stated the best, longest-lasting tables I've been in never put heavy emphasis on RP, much less Method-Acting RP. It was much more about going along with the plot. I'm just stuck in a runt since I got into a new group after a year off of D&D because of the pandemic, only this table was full of the kinds of players who get completely lost in character and would actually grind the DM's homebrew to a screeching hault. So please don't assume that D&D would be a poor fit for me
(Also, yes, you VERY MUCH sound like a gatekeeper)
OSR?
Modern D&D movement?
OSR - I believe it means Old School Rules, at least I read it that way - using 1e-3.5e or alternate systems or sticking some of that into 5e.
modern D&D movement? Not as sure of this but I think he is talking about some of the younger/newer players that like a lot of drama at their tables. To some extent I see this as a reaction to changes in modern society 40 years ago the drama group broke away from D&D to start the LARPing industry, but today it’s getting somewhat difficult to find places that will let you walk around in costume with weapons out other than a sanctioned SCA event so they are returning to the tables. Some of these want the whole table to be doing the acting, others are content to do it themselves as part of a quieter group.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Looks like someone beat me to it - and did a better job, thanks BigLizard.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
To the OP, I believe you are in the wrong group. We don't agree on some aspects of playing and enjoying D&D, but I would not enjoy playing in the group you describe. I also favor milestone or some other advancement system that advances the party together. Anything else seems like it would pit the players against one another to attempt to get the XP that will be distributed. And the idea that a DM would exclusively award XP for roleplay just doesn't work for me.
DMs can do what they think best, but that table wouldn't work for me. I'm sure there is a table out there for you.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Personally, while I'd hate a game which doesn't emphasize roleplay, I think roleplay should be awarded with inspiration, not xp.
I also think that one can roleplay while adventuring. Character comes out best while under tension.
With all due respect, how does this imply anything other than the suggestion Davyd made that you subsequently shot down?
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
He also (and first) suggested DCC, which is literally old school adventure implementations of D&D. Far as I can tell, his suggestion had more to with chances of finding a likeminded group outside "mainstream" D&D than outside D&D period.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Sounded more like "could" than "should" to me and, as you have pointed out many times, older editions and OSR and the like are, very much, D&D. Looking into that is not quitting D&D. To bring it back to Sedge's words, it's not about the merits of roleplaying or how to play D&D, it's about OP getting to play with likeminded people - and likeminded people are possibly easier to find with groups that play versions of D&D that emphasize the same things OP likes to emphasize. That's all, I don't think anyone wanted to make more of it than that.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
That Actually defeats the purpose of asking what I should do since I explicitly stated I do not like roleplay and never will. I'm not writing a novel or screenplay, I'm just here to play a game, which is what D&D is at its core. And I'm never going to waste my time writing backstories and personalities to an avatar that in the end won't make a difference and affect nothing. Your description of what roleplay is actually makes me LESS inclined to do so.
Are you saying that your avatar doesn’t make a difference and affects nothing or the backstory and personality you create for your avatar don’t make a difference and affect nothing?
Re-reading the discussion, pretty sure I know the answer though I still am curious. I think you have been given the best advice there is already: find a group that is better suited to your playstyle.
”Are you saying that your avatar doesn’t make a difference and affects nothing or the backstory and personality you create for your avatar don’t make a difference and affect nothing?”
It doesn’t affect anything. I couldn’t care less about creating a backstory for a character, because it doesn’t matter. Nor do I understand or comprehend why some players would waste their time creating long, detailed descriptions about their characters, only for said descriptions to NEVER impact the campaign in any meaningful way. My avatar is an avatar, not an actual person. It’s just a pawn in a game, nothing less & nothing more. If I was writing a novel or creating a script/screenplay, then I would actually put in the effort to flesh out a character & give them a personality. But that is not the point of D&D. D&D is meant to be a game where players work together & go on an adventure, NOT an acting competition where characters create 3-page backstories for their characters & hog the spotlight away from everyone else who just want to explore dungeons and fight enemies (believe me, that’s happened to me from other players too many times). It’s just an absurd waste of time if you play it that way.
I would refrain from proclaiming what D&D is and what D&D is not.
It is a very different thing to different people and users should not exhibit themselves as an expert (or in some instances, gatekeeper) in certain respects. If groups or DMs want to incorporate backstories and tailer their games to such role-play, they can (and certainly do).
I mean, D&D was created by adding roleplaying aspects to Chainmail, a tactical wargame. What's the point of all these racial identities and backgrounds (the ones you pick during character creation, not backstories)? Why is there such a thing as alignment, and why does the PHB include bonds and flaws, if not because roleplaying is expected to be part of D&D? Suggesting you should maybe try something other than D&D is apparently bad form, but I can't help but think something like Gloomhaven is exactly what you seem to want from D&D - exploring dungeons and fighting enemies - without all the pesky roleplaying you don't want from D&D.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Any DMs that award inspiration for a player doing excellent strategic decisions in combat? It seems that roleplay is held at a higher regard in general compared to game skill.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
It’s a roleplaying game. Roleplay is game skill.
Well, to be frank, “absurd” is coming to a site dedicated to a role playing game and complaining that your role playing game involves role playing. It’s literally the name of the game: “Dungeons and Dragons Role Playing Game”. That said, there are other players similar to you; ones who want to role play less or not at all in favour of the mechanical side of things. You just have to find them. Instead of complaining about the people you don’t enjoy playing with, move on and find some that you do :)
BTW, I totally disagree that character backgrounds and details are meaningless and have no impact on the game but I don’t need to agree. I have a group of people who agree with me that I play with. You need to find people that agree with you and play with them.
Play at whatever table works for you, but like...
D&D is collaborative story telling. There are a million dungeon crawling board games out there, and it sounds like that's what you want - a collaborative fantasy adventure board game focused on combat. That's not D&D (typically), and insisting others conform to your board game version of it seems really short-sighted. No one has ever needed elaborate back story. No one has ever needed to be a great actor (ever). You do have to carry your story telling weight, though. That goes beyond optimization and tactical game play.
As sedge said a few posts back, it’s not useful to say what D&D is or is not. You can play a dungeon crawl with little character development, and that’s still D&D. Indeed, it’s how lots of people have played for decades. You can play with heavy role play and stay in character for hours, and that’s D&D. The only “correct” version is where everyone is having fun.
Sure, but there's a clear sense of entitlement at play here, with this one person insisting that the game *not* ask anything of him in terms of character or storytelling. That's fine if you find that sort of table, but they're very rare.