Nah, Gandalf is clearly a Paladin. He was known as an inspirer of men and clearly had high Charisma. He slew a high CR fiend (Balrog) that could only have been done with some serious radiant damage.
But I think that the thing that cements him as a Paladin is Shadowfax. Look me in the eyes and tell me that wasn't Find Steed in action.
All very solid points, especially the last one.
IIRC it was essentially 'Find Steed' with a material component (horse) because he already it existed and where it was, he just needed to con the king into giving it to him.
I would classify him (in the movies) as a paladin or especially melee-tooled cleric. Despite the 'wizard' title, his spellcasting is divine, not arcane.
In the books however, there isn't an explicit magic system, but there are occasional references to magic outside of divine magic. Outside of Moria, Gandalf says "I once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs, that was ever used for such a purpose. I can still remember ten score of them without searching my mind..."
You also see references to dwarves making magic toys, spells being a thing that people can learn (at one point the narrative points out that hobbits' stealth seems magical, though no hobbit ever studied magic), and the Mouth of Sauron being steeped in sorcery, so you do see arcane magic is a thing in middle earth, and that Gandalf is clearly learned in it. By that metric I think you could call book-gandalf more of a wizard with paladin levels rather than a paladin with wizard levels.
Obviously there's no perfect fit, as Gandalf was made before D&D and even if he'd come after wouldn't have been concerned with D&D classes. Part of me's tempted to say bladesinger though.
He doesn't go into melee often but is good at it when he does. Access to the phantom steed spell for Shadowfax. (Shadowfax was a normal horse, sure, but this gives him 'a' fast horse.) He doesn't wear armor which fits a wizard.
I suppose divine soul sorcerer could also work if you really wanted to work in the divine nature of his abilities.
But he does cast Chain Lightning on goblins in The Hobbit, and had Contingency with Reincarnation in place when he died...
The first time I used Contingency on my players the BBEG had cast it on himself with his Teleport spell. One of the players, a veteran of D&D all the way back to 1st ed, didn't see it coming. I think it was the only time I pulled one over on him.
Obviously there's no perfect fit, as Gandalf was made before D&D and even if he'd come after wouldn't have been concerned with D&D classes. Part of me's tempted to say bladesinger though.
He doesn't go into melee often but is good at it when he does. Access to the phantom steed spell for Shadowfax. (Shadowfax was a normal horse, sure, but this gives him 'a' fast horse.) He doesn't wear armor which fits a wizard.
I suppose divine soul sorcerer could also work if you really wanted to work in the divine nature of his abilities.
Oooooh...I'd forgotten about Bladesingers. Yeah...that fits since, as a Valar, he doesn't worry about petty things like Race limits. It really does fit well because it gives him a wide enough battery of spells but covers the fighting end as well.
I feel like an important aspect of Gandalf is where his magic comes from. I'm not a LOTR expert, but I'm pretty sure his magic is something innate to his species, not something learned (wizard) or granted by an outside power (Paladin, cleric, warlock).. So surely a sorcerer would be the most fitting? Divine Soul perhaps.
If we're to take his actual nature as basically an angel/celestial, I'd say Gandalf wouldn't be a player character at all but an NPC in the game run by the DM to help guide the party.
I feel like an important aspect of Gandalf is where his magic comes from. I'm not a LOTR expert, but I'm pretty sure his magic is something innate to his species, not something learned (wizard) or granted by an outside power (Paladin, cleric, warlock).. So surely a sorcerer would be the most fitting? Divine Soul perhaps.
Sorcerer is the closest to be sure, but keep in mind that when he slew the Balrog of Moria, the impact from the two of them shattered a mountainside. The impact alone. That is far beyond 'sorcerer'
" I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountainside where he smote it in his ruin."
I feel like an important aspect of Gandalf is where his magic comes from. I'm not a LOTR expert, but I'm pretty sure his magic is something innate to his species, not something learned (wizard) or granted by an outside power (Paladin, cleric, warlock).. So surely a sorcerer would be the most fitting? Divine Soul perhaps.
Sorcerer is the closest to be sure, but keep in mind that when he slew the Balrog of Moria, the impact from the two of them shattered a mountainside. The impact alone. That is far beyond 'sorcerer'
" I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountainside where he smote it in his ruin."
Exactly, 'threw,' not 'blasted,' a physical description rather than metaphysical. And when wading into direct combat, he is almost always doing so with sword, rather than magic. There is an exception in The Hobbit where he turns pine cones into fire bombs but again, Ring of Fire.
The thing you have to remember about Gandalf is that while he is extremely powerful, he is not generally permitted to use his powers to the full extent. He and his fellow wizards were sent to council, steer and guide, not to do things by pure force. When they previously did it by pure force against Melkor, continents shattered and the world itself changed forever. So the reason that you do not see him casting many powerful spells, is that this is a moral thing as the divines do not wish to further damage the world. When he does cast spells, he always uses the absolute minimum possible force (shield, rays of sunlight, etc) and intentionally never directly deals damage in such a way. That is why whichever fight he's in (a few goblins, or a Balrog of Morgoth), he only ever just exceeds the opposition (by holding back at all times) rather then e.g. curb-stomping the puny goblins. Presumably the reason he never reveals this to e.g. the Hobbits is that he could hardly inspire them and the humans to step up and be heroic if they knew he could just divine-intervention them out of their misery.
So Gandalf is a divine being (yes, of lower order, but still divine) and gets his powers from his bloodline (i.e. Sorcerer). This is why Galadriel had to destroy Dol Guldur with her power as, despite being below Gandalf in terms of power, she is not restricted by such limits. Gandalf is also a reasonably skilled Fighter, presumably having honed up his skills over his immortal long life. He is not a Cleric as he does not pray to any gods or get his spells from them. He is also not a Paladin as he did not swear any oats or follow a particular deity.
I would therefore say that he's something like Multiclass Sorcerer/Fighter, with his Sorcerer level being epic 50+, and his fighter level being a more reasonable 10 or so.
Now, Samwise Gangee on the other hand was a Paladin: He swore an oath to a divine being (Gandalf) to protect Frodo on a quest to save the world. What could be more Paladinesque than that? You could even argue that when he supports Frodo, he occasionally gets in the odd sneaky "laying on hands" to help Frodo along.
Seriously...how many spells did he cast? And yet a troll comes through a door or he gets swarmed by Orcs and he's a whirlwind of destruction.
All very solid points, especially the last one.
IIRC it was essentially 'Find Steed' with a material component (horse) because he already it existed and where it was, he just needed to con the king into giving it to him.
But he does cast Chain Lightning on goblins in The Hobbit, and had Contingency with Reincarnation in place when he died...
I would classify him (in the movies) as a paladin or especially melee-tooled cleric. Despite the 'wizard' title, his spellcasting is divine, not arcane.
In the books however, there isn't an explicit magic system, but there are occasional references to magic outside of divine magic. Outside of Moria, Gandalf says "I once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs, that was ever used for such a purpose. I can still remember ten score of them without searching my mind..."
You also see references to dwarves making magic toys, spells being a thing that people can learn (at one point the narrative points out that hobbits' stealth seems magical, though no hobbit ever studied magic), and the Mouth of Sauron being steeped in sorcery, so you do see arcane magic is a thing in middle earth, and that Gandalf is clearly learned in it. By that metric I think you could call book-gandalf more of a wizard with paladin levels rather than a paladin with wizard levels.
Obviously there's no perfect fit, as Gandalf was made before D&D and even if he'd come after wouldn't have been concerned with D&D classes. Part of me's tempted to say bladesinger though.
He doesn't go into melee often but is good at it when he does. Access to the phantom steed spell for Shadowfax. (Shadowfax was a normal horse, sure, but this gives him 'a' fast horse.) He doesn't wear armor which fits a wizard.
I suppose divine soul sorcerer could also work if you really wanted to work in the divine nature of his abilities.
The first time I used Contingency on my players the BBEG had cast it on himself with his Teleport spell. One of the players, a veteran of D&D all the way back to 1st ed, didn't see it coming. I think it was the only time I pulled one over on him.
Oooooh...I'd forgotten about Bladesingers. Yeah...that fits since, as a Valar, he doesn't worry about petty things like Race limits. It really does fit well because it gives him a wide enough battery of spells but covers the fighting end as well.
I feel like an important aspect of Gandalf is where his magic comes from. I'm not a LOTR expert, but I'm pretty sure his magic is something innate to his species, not something learned (wizard) or granted by an outside power (Paladin, cleric, warlock).. So surely a sorcerer would be the most fitting? Divine Soul perhaps.
If we're to take his actual nature as basically an angel/celestial, I'd say Gandalf wouldn't be a player character at all but an NPC in the game run by the DM to help guide the party.
" I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountainside where he smote it in his ruin."
Contrary opinion: Gandalf was a DMPC.
:-)
He might have used Bigby's Hand or something!
:-)
The thing you have to remember about Gandalf is that while he is extremely powerful, he is not generally permitted to use his powers to the full extent. He and his fellow wizards were sent to council, steer and guide, not to do things by pure force. When they previously did it by pure force against Melkor, continents shattered and the world itself changed forever. So the reason that you do not see him casting many powerful spells, is that this is a moral thing as the divines do not wish to further damage the world. When he does cast spells, he always uses the absolute minimum possible force (shield, rays of sunlight, etc) and intentionally never directly deals damage in such a way. That is why whichever fight he's in (a few goblins, or a Balrog of Morgoth), he only ever just exceeds the opposition (by holding back at all times) rather then e.g. curb-stomping the puny goblins. Presumably the reason he never reveals this to e.g. the Hobbits is that he could hardly inspire them and the humans to step up and be heroic if they knew he could just divine-intervention them out of their misery.
So Gandalf is a divine being (yes, of lower order, but still divine) and gets his powers from his bloodline (i.e. Sorcerer). This is why Galadriel had to destroy Dol Guldur with her power as, despite being below Gandalf in terms of power, she is not restricted by such limits. Gandalf is also a reasonably skilled Fighter, presumably having honed up his skills over his immortal long life. He is not a Cleric as he does not pray to any gods or get his spells from them. He is also not a Paladin as he did not swear any oats or follow a particular deity.
I would therefore say that he's something like Multiclass Sorcerer/Fighter, with his Sorcerer level being epic 50+, and his fighter level being a more reasonable 10 or so.
Now, Samwise Gangee on the other hand was a Paladin: He swore an oath to a divine being (Gandalf) to protect Frodo on a quest to save the world. What could be more Paladinesque than that? You could even argue that when he supports Frodo, he occasionally gets in the odd sneaky "laying on hands" to help Frodo along.