Though multi-attack is a good plan to attack high ac, i think this brings up the question of what you need to know the info for. If you’re a dm, i think it is important to remember the goal isn’t beating or “getting at” your players, but helping everyone have a good time. Just be careful to avoid a dm vs player mindset.
In addition, spells and abilities that make players do saving throws rather than attack rolls against players can also be used to threaten high ac. As said above, you shouldn't take a 'dm vs player' mentality, but if you want to make sure a high AC character still feels the heat that's another way to go about it along with multi attack. Just don't over do it because if you go too far and hardly include any attack rolls it makes that high armor start to feel worthless.
I don't think you necessarily need a "DM vs Players" mindset just to justify giving players extra challenging opponents. I've played with groups who really love truly challenging combat, and actually get bored if combat is too easy. I've also played with players who just love the power trip of being far too powerful compared to their opponents, but neither playstyle is necessarily correct.
If I wanted to "Get them" it would be easy. When the player has a Paladin with a 24 AC and a 20 CHA it is difficult to challenge them with Attacks for Saving Rolls. I want combat encounters to feel like a challenge.
Which sort of begs the question - How did the Paladin end up with a 20 Charisma and AC 24 at tier 1 or low tier 2? The AC especially is typical for tier 4 not 1.
Yeah I'm curious where this AC is coming from as well. Is there an artificer in the party giving them an AC buff? Using shield of faith spell?
Plate armor + shield would get them to 20. I'm curious where the other 4 is coming from.
Saving throw moves can help because even with the paladin's aura, many effects will still deal half damage on a success to make sure they're taking some damage at least.
You can also always bump up the attack rolls of monsters a bit, or have monsters avoid the paladin and go after squishier party members and not focus solely on the paladin.
Which sort of begs the question - How did the Paladin end up with a 20 Charisma and AC 24 at tier 1 or low tier 2? The AC especially is typical for tier 4 not 1.
by being a paladin, and probally the dm giving them plate armor, not understanding that breaks shit.
Plate only gives AC18. Add a shield and that's 20. To get 24, he must have had a magic item(s), which the DM must have chosen to have given him.
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Plate only gives AC18. Add a shield and that's 20. To get 24, he must have had a magic item(s), which the DM must have chosen to have given him.
He could have also taken the Defense fighting style, which gives a +1 to AC. There's the first-level spell Shield of Faith, which is a Paladin spell... so that gets us up to 23 already. There's probably other ways to get AC I can't think of, but it's totally possible to just get insane AC if you're building a character specifically for it.
I don't think you necessarily need a "DM vs Players" mindset just to justify giving players extra challenging opponents. I've played with groups who really love truly challenging combat, and actually get bored if combat is too easy. I've also played with players who just love the power trip of being far too powerful compared to their opponents, but neither playstyle is necessarily correct.
When I DM I include both types of combat encounter. Some where the PCs win by sneezing on their opponents and others where a single combat has them all wondering if they’ll survive the fight.
Plate only gives AC18. Add a shield and that's 20. To get 24, he must have had a magic item(s), which the DM must have chosen to have given him.
He could have also taken the Defense fighting style, which gives a +1 to AC. There's the first-level spell Shield of Faith, which is a Paladin spell... so that gets us up to 23 already. There's probably other ways to get AC I can't think of, but it's totally possible to just get insane AC if you're building a character specifically for it.
True, I thought it was a one off thing, but it lasts ten minutes so it wouldn't necessarily burn through slots as quick as I thought.
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Plate only gives AC18. Add a shield and that's 20. To get 24, he must have had a magic item(s), which the DM must have chosen to have given him.
He could have also taken the Defense fighting style, which gives a +1 to AC. There's the first-level spell Shield of Faith, which is a Paladin spell... so that gets us up to 23 already. There's probably other ways to get AC I can't think of, but it's totally possible to just get insane AC if you're building a character specifically for it.
If it were a Warforged- Integrated Armor gives another +1 AC.
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Sorry I was not clear up front. This is a T3 game going into T4. I have found that using weak monsters with multiple attacks in numbers work better than fewer large threats.
Oh yeah in that case I’d say anything is fair game, the players should be quite powerful, which seems to be true. A lot of weak monsters might sound good, but be careful of aoe spells. Fireball can wipe out tons of low level grunts. I think the idea of giving one strong monster a bunch of attacks sounds like a pretty smart plan. You could use legendary actions too.
Sorry I was not clear up front. This is a T3 game going into T4. I have found that using weak monsters with multiple attacks in numbers work better than fewer large threats.
Most higher CR stuff has multiple attacks, I think probably more key is to make sure you have stuff with high attack bonuses or damage on a successful save (tier 3 paladin with 20 charisma isn't going to be failing a lot of saves).
Is there a way to sort monsters that will show which ones have the Multiattack action?
Specifically I am looking for low CR monsters that have this. For instance the Redcap is a CR3 monster, but it has three attacks.
These are great to get at players with a great AC.
There is not but my homebrew https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/2031895-slaad-harvester would work well here, espically thanks to the crit range.
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Though multi-attack is a good plan to attack high ac, i think this brings up the question of what you need to know the info for. If you’re a dm, i think it is important to remember the goal isn’t beating or “getting at” your players, but helping everyone have a good time. Just be careful to avoid a dm vs player mindset.
In addition, spells and abilities that make players do saving throws rather than attack rolls against players can also be used to threaten high ac. As said above, you shouldn't take a 'dm vs player' mentality, but if you want to make sure a high AC character still feels the heat that's another way to go about it along with multi attack. Just don't over do it because if you go too far and hardly include any attack rolls it makes that high armor start to feel worthless.
I don't think you necessarily need a "DM vs Players" mindset just to justify giving players extra challenging opponents. I've played with groups who really love truly challenging combat, and actually get bored if combat is too easy. I've also played with players who just love the power trip of being far too powerful compared to their opponents, but neither playstyle is necessarily correct.
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If I wanted to "Get them" it would be easy. When the player has a Paladin with a 24 AC and a 20 CHA it is difficult to challenge them with Attacks for Saving Rolls. I want combat encounters to feel like a challenge.
Which sort of begs the question - How did the Paladin end up with a 20 Charisma and AC 24 at tier 1 or low tier 2? The AC especially is typical for tier 4 not 1.
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Yeah I'm curious where this AC is coming from as well. Is there an artificer in the party giving them an AC buff? Using shield of faith spell?
Plate armor + shield would get them to 20. I'm curious where the other 4 is coming from.
Saving throw moves can help because even with the paladin's aura, many effects will still deal half damage on a success to make sure they're taking some damage at least.
You can also always bump up the attack rolls of monsters a bit, or have monsters avoid the paladin and go after squishier party members and not focus solely on the paladin.
If you're the DM you can also just give Multi-attack to a monster that doesn't necessarily have it in their stat block.
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by being a paladin, and probally the dm giving them plate armor, not understanding that breaks shit.
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Plate only gives AC18. Add a shield and that's 20. To get 24, he must have had a magic item(s), which the DM must have chosen to have given him.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
He could have also taken the Defense fighting style, which gives a +1 to AC. There's the first-level spell Shield of Faith, which is a Paladin spell... so that gets us up to 23 already. There's probably other ways to get AC I can't think of, but it's totally possible to just get insane AC if you're building a character specifically for it.
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And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
When I DM I include both types of combat encounter. Some where the PCs win by sneezing on their opponents and others where a single combat has them all wondering if they’ll survive the fight.
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True, I thought it was a one off thing, but it lasts ten minutes so it wouldn't necessarily burn through slots as quick as I thought.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
If it were a Warforged- Integrated Armor gives another +1 AC.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
A tier 1 character with plate? That's a very money-rich campaign!
Sorry I was not clear up front. This is a T3 game going into T4. I have found that using weak monsters with multiple attacks in numbers work better than fewer large threats.
Oh yeah in that case I’d say anything is fair game, the players should be quite powerful, which seems to be true. A lot of weak monsters might sound good, but be careful of aoe spells. Fireball can wipe out tons of low level grunts. I think the idea of giving one strong monster a bunch of attacks sounds like a pretty smart plan. You could use legendary actions too.
Most higher CR stuff has multiple attacks, I think probably more key is to make sure you have stuff with high attack bonuses or damage on a successful save (tier 3 paladin with 20 charisma isn't going to be failing a lot of saves).
I would go with a dire wolf pack.
They give each other advantage and potentially knock targets prone.
I'm sure the entire party is not AC24.
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