I've got a small issue currently where it either could be a misunderstanding or a player scrambling when caught.
Has anyone here had issues before with ability scores, feats, or ability score improvements being inconsistent between what the player in the campaign sees versus what the DM sees I'm not talking about the delay that usually clears up overnight, but a long-term misalignment of information over a series of months.
I've had suspicions before with this player, but I just found that one of the feats they took was manually turned on and remained on their sheet while they then switched their feat choice to an ASI instead without asking. I tell them I see this issue, also bringing up other suspicious events surrounding their sheet, calmly stating how they need to be asking me to switch anything out.
I took screenshots and all, but only after I message them about this does their sheet start to periodically (as I kept refreshing, seeing it change bit by bit) update to what they now claim their sheet to have. I haven't had an issue with this for any other player in the campaign.
Has this happened to anyone else? Specifically a bug in which (for months) a sheet is displayed to the DM of a campaign as something entirely different than what the player sees.
EDIT: This isn't the first time it's happened either. They were an accuracy machine when we started the campaign, then looked at their sheet to find they had much higher stats than the others (we used point buy or array; player choice). I confront them about how their stats are much higher, complete with a screenshot. Only then when I ask them does it change on DnD Beyond. Then they're suddenly at +0 STR and missing all the time, since they have a massive number missing from their rolls to hit.
They've also changed their feat before without checking first. I'm just so unsure about this player sometimes.
DDB does not glitch in the ways described. There is one character sheet, and the DM for a campaign simply has view/edit permissions for that same document. Using 'Manage Feats' to add a feat and then using an ASI as an ASI could simply be confusion and unfamiliarity with the system. Frankly, so could stat nonsense. But if the sheet is being corrected to what it should be without needing you to inform them of what it should be and how to do so? Well, I can see why you'd suspect cheating.
Cheating in D&D isn't the end of the world, though. If the player is otherwise fun and enjoyable to have around, simply pull them aside and have a quiet talk about their goals and why they feel the need to go behind everybody's backs to do these things. I know some players chafe hard at the low numbers and lack of opportunity to make cool character choices forced on them by the default Standard Array system - our own table has long since abandoned it for a modified homebrew system that works much better for us and we're all quite pleased with it - but that still doesn't really excuse this kind of chicanery. A calm, adult conversation with the player should ideally do the trick.
What I do is save my players character sheets as PDF, mainly for my own record keeping because I keep a binder with their characters. Each time they level up I will resave and print it and at the end of the campaign I save their character development for sentimental value. My point is, I feel like the saving method might actually help you see and keep track of noticeable changes that effect gameplay. Overall I don't see a wild issue in this behavior but it does give an unfair advantage over the players that are keeping to what they have.
Best of luck with whatever you decide, but I would ask them in private just to see if maybe there's something that would make the game more enjoyable to them to mitigate this kind of behavior!
Yeah, I tried just showing them what I've noticed, and offered to them "Would you want to just shift around your PCs stats? If you're unhappy with what you have, we can discuss it." But they just denied it all and edited their sheet as soon as I messaged them in regards to the concern. Asked other players for their advice, and it's now led to a blowing up of the campaign as a whole, so the journey is likely over there.
There are of course ways to remedy it, but a I think I'm at a point where they don't respect the work I put in for them, so It's time to just save the friendship and forget about Dungeons & Dragons with this particular friend group, even if it just comes down to the solution being that I'm not the DM. It seems like they're growing to just want their DM to be a facilitator and not a storyteller, so that doesn't align with what I see DnD as.
Either way, we're all planning a meeting to just air concerns and issues. My mind's mostly made up already, though, even if it pains me to say goodbye to hundreds of hours of gameplay and planning.
So, with DnDBeyond, it's easy for a player to add and change things because they want to experiment. I had this problem when playing a wizard. After about three levels, and having been given some spells by the DM, my spell book was all kinds of wrong. I had to write down exactly what I was given and what I picked from leveling, and then make sure I covered the cost of the ones the DM gave me. I eventually worked it out and felt like I wasn't doing anything wrong. But I could see where a player would add and remove options from the character sheet and then get mixed up on what happened.
In the end, I would simply have told your player, "Hey, Bob, I noticed you have two feats. I didn't think you could have two feats yet. Can you explain how you got them both? Oh, you're not sure. Ok. Can you remove one of them? Thanks." Sometimes it's just easier to pretend you don't know what's going on.
I've had a player who constantly pushed the limits of attention span to rules around the table. Their characters where always interesting, especially where 'random' options where concerned. Also the kind who would rollandscoop in one motion, declaring the results.
You can spend the energy keeping on top of it, probably worth it if they're part of your friends circle. Or be clear, warn them, and if they carry on, then remove them.
In general players cheat when they think, they can't trust the DM and they have to succeed to "win" the game.
Talk to your players, see what his expectations are and assure them, that you never would betray their trust, that failure in this game gives chance for great roleplay and is enjoyable as well.
All our heroes have great stories because they failed in the past. Figure out what they want to play and talk to them, how this can happen in your game and what "failure" is okay with them.
I've got a small issue currently where it either could be a misunderstanding or a player scrambling when caught.
Has anyone here had issues before with ability scores, feats, or ability score improvements being inconsistent between what the player in the campaign sees versus what the DM sees I'm not talking about the delay that usually clears up overnight, but a long-term misalignment of information over a series of months.
I've had suspicions before with this player, but I just found that one of the feats they took was manually turned on and remained on their sheet while they then switched their feat choice to an ASI instead without asking. I tell them I see this issue, also bringing up other suspicious events surrounding their sheet, calmly stating how they need to be asking me to switch anything out.
I took screenshots and all, but only after I message them about this does their sheet start to periodically (as I kept refreshing, seeing it change bit by bit) update to what they now claim their sheet to have. I haven't had an issue with this for any other player in the campaign.
Has this happened to anyone else? Specifically a bug in which (for months) a sheet is displayed to the DM of a campaign as something entirely different than what the player sees.
EDIT: This isn't the first time it's happened either. They were an accuracy machine when we started the campaign, then looked at their sheet to find they had much higher stats than the others (we used point buy or array; player choice). I confront them about how their stats are much higher, complete with a screenshot. Only then when I ask them does it change on DnD Beyond. Then they're suddenly at +0 STR and missing all the time, since they have a massive number missing from their rolls to hit.
They've also changed their feat before without checking first. I'm just so unsure about this player sometimes.
First - It's not D&D Beyond. Your player is a cheaty little cheat cheat. And based on what your wrote, they're not going to stop of their own accord.
Second - At some point you're going to have to make a choice. Either 1) kick them from the group, 2) leave the group yourself, 3) just accept that he's going to cheat, or 4) find a way to prevent him from cheating.
If you want to prevent him from cheating, the simplest thing is to keep a backup record of their stats/feats/etc. Spot-check their sheet from time to time, and call them out if they do it again. Heck, tell them the next time it happens you're going to bring it to the whole group. If you don't want to call them out in front of everyone like that, tell all the players that each time they level up, they need to export their sheet to a pdf and email it to you. Above all, make them admit that they're actually cheating, even if only to you. Nothing will EVER improve if they can't even come clean about it.
Ultimately only you can decide the proper course of action, but clearly the status quo isn't fun for you, and fun is the whole point of playing D&D.
I've got a small issue currently where it either could be a misunderstanding or a player scrambling when caught.
Has anyone here had issues before with ability scores, feats, or ability score improvements being inconsistent between what the player in the campaign sees versus what the DM sees I'm not talking about the delay that usually clears up overnight, but a long-term misalignment of information over a series of months.
I've had suspicions before with this player, but I just found that one of the feats they took was manually turned on and remained on their sheet while they then switched their feat choice to an ASI instead without asking. I tell them I see this issue, also bringing up other suspicious events surrounding their sheet, calmly stating how they need to be asking me to switch anything out.
I took screenshots and all, but only after I message them about this does their sheet start to periodically (as I kept refreshing, seeing it change bit by bit) update to what they now claim their sheet to have. I haven't had an issue with this for any other player in the campaign.
Has this happened to anyone else? Specifically a bug in which (for months) a sheet is displayed to the DM of a campaign as something entirely different than what the player sees.
EDIT: This isn't the first time it's happened either. They were an accuracy machine when we started the campaign, then looked at their sheet to find they had much higher stats than the others (we used point buy or array; player choice). I confront them about how their stats are much higher, complete with a screenshot. Only then when I ask them does it change on DnD Beyond. Then they're suddenly at +0 STR and missing all the time, since they have a massive number missing from their rolls to hit.
They've also changed their feat before without checking first. I'm just so unsure about this player sometimes.
First - It's not D&D Beyond. Your player is a cheaty little cheat cheat. And based on what your wrote, they're not going to stop of their own accord.
Second - At some point you're going to have to make a choice. Either 1) kick them from the group, 2) leave the group yourself, 3) just accept that he's going to cheat, or 4) find a way to prevent him from cheating.
If you want to prevent him from cheating, the simplest thing is to keep a backup record of their stats/feats/etc. Spot-check their sheet from time to time, and call them out if they do it again. Heck, tell them the next time it happens you're going to bring it to the whole group. If you don't want to call them out in front of everyone like that, tell all the players that each time they level up, they need to export their sheet to a pdf and email it to you. Above all, make them admit that they're actually cheating, even if only to you. Nothing will EVER improve if they can't even come clean about it.
Ultimately only you can decide the proper course of action, but clearly the status quo isn't fun for you, and fun is the whole point of playing D&D.
Yeah, the problem here is that it's happened before. Which is why I was curious what would happen if I took a screenshot of their sheet before messaging them and then after, if anything would change again in the same way only at that time. Surprise surprise, it happened exactly the same way.
Even more troubling is that the couple of players I asked for advice (that are arguably the rules lawyers of the group too) don't care if someone's changing a few things on their sheet; they don't think it's cheating. Now the group is victimizing me for being so serious. And honestly, I'm not even mad about them changing their sheet as much as not admitting it and just hurriedly changing it to cover themselves and letting me take all this heat over their mistake. Even if the reality is just, "Oh I thought you'd be okay with it" or "I was just messing around with it a little bit, I switched it back, sorry about the confusion" or just simply "sorry" - they just deny and make me have to get mad over this small thing. I'm mad that a friend is lying to my face about just a game more than the actual type of cheating.
The game issue is if they can't even be honest about this, how many other times have they cheated or how many future times will they cheat, since we do physical rolled dice between trusted friends with an honour system. This person got 3 nat 20s last session; did they? Not sure. It's just painful to see someone lying to their friends for no reason other than to not lose at playing make-believe.
I've got a small issue currently where it either could be a misunderstanding or a player scrambling when caught.
Has anyone here had issues before with ability scores, feats, or ability score improvements being inconsistent between what the player in the campaign sees versus what the DM sees I'm not talking about the delay that usually clears up overnight, but a long-term misalignment of information over a series of months.
I've had suspicions before with this player, but I just found that one of the feats they took was manually turned on and remained on their sheet while they then switched their feat choice to an ASI instead without asking. I tell them I see this issue, also bringing up other suspicious events surrounding their sheet, calmly stating how they need to be asking me to switch anything out.
I took screenshots and all, but only after I message them about this does their sheet start to periodically (as I kept refreshing, seeing it change bit by bit) update to what they now claim their sheet to have. I haven't had an issue with this for any other player in the campaign.
Has this happened to anyone else? Specifically a bug in which (for months) a sheet is displayed to the DM of a campaign as something entirely different than what the player sees.
EDIT: This isn't the first time it's happened either. They were an accuracy machine when we started the campaign, then looked at their sheet to find they had much higher stats than the others (we used point buy or array; player choice). I confront them about how their stats are much higher, complete with a screenshot. Only then when I ask them does it change on DnD Beyond. Then they're suddenly at +0 STR and missing all the time, since they have a massive number missing from their rolls to hit.
They've also changed their feat before without checking first. I'm just so unsure about this player sometimes.
First - It's not D&D Beyond. Your player is a cheaty little cheat cheat. And based on what your wrote, they're not going to stop of their own accord.
Second - At some point you're going to have to make a choice. Either 1) kick them from the group, 2) leave the group yourself, 3) just accept that he's going to cheat, or 4) find a way to prevent him from cheating.
If you want to prevent him from cheating, the simplest thing is to keep a backup record of their stats/feats/etc. Spot-check their sheet from time to time, and call them out if they do it again. Heck, tell them the next time it happens you're going to bring it to the whole group. If you don't want to call them out in front of everyone like that, tell all the players that each time they level up, they need to export their sheet to a pdf and email it to you. Above all, make them admit that they're actually cheating, even if only to you. Nothing will EVER improve if they can't even come clean about it.
Ultimately only you can decide the proper course of action, but clearly the status quo isn't fun for you, and fun is the whole point of playing D&D.
Yeah, the problem here is that it's happened before. Which is why I was curious what would happen if I took a screenshot of their sheet before messaging them and then after, if anything would change again in the same way only at that time. Surprise surprise, it happened exactly the same way.
Even more troubling is that the couple of players I asked for advice (that are arguably the rules lawyers of the group too) don't care if someone's changing a few things on their sheet; they don't think it's cheating. Now the group is victimizing me for being so serious. And honestly, I'm not even mad about them changing their sheet as much as not admitting it and just hurriedly changing it to cover themselves and letting me take all this heat over their mistake. Even if the reality is just, "Oh I thought you'd be okay with it" or "I was just messing around with it a little bit, I switched it back, sorry about the confusion" or just simply "sorry" - they just deny and make me have to get mad over this small thing. I'm mad that a friend is lying to my face about just a game more than the actual type of cheating.
The game issue is if they can't even be honest about this, how many other times have they cheated or how many future times will they cheat, since we do physical rolled dice between trusted friends with an honour system. This person got 3 nat 20s last session; did they? Not sure. It's just painful to see someone lying to their friends for no reason other than to not lose at playing make-believe.
The flip side to this is that it’s just painful to see someone getting so worked up over lying to not lose at make-believe. I played with an incorrigible cheater for about a decade. His IRL life was so awful, winning at make-believe is the one thing that gave him any joy. Since he wasn’t actually hurting anyone and I never trusted him with anything important or real life, what difference did it really make whether he cheated or not? I let him wring what relief from reality he could, the only place he could.
You never know what someone else is going through; opt for kindness whenever you can. Also, choosing your battles carefully can make your own life more peaceful. There are better hills to die on than this one IMHO.
(1) Does his cheating actually negatively affect anyone?
If yes, then go to (2).
If no, go to (3).
(2) Is that negative effect worth perilising your friendship or relationship over?
If yes, confront them with evidence. Hope it's worth it.
If no, then as harsh as it sounds, realise that it's best to just get over yourself. It's a game, not worth fighting over. It's not even a competitive one.
(3) Are you their moral judge that also knows everything that's going on their life to know that this behaviour is definitely out of line and needs to be correct by you, and you know forma surety that by confronting them, it would be cause them to repent rather than just make things worse?
If yes, then you are a far better and knowledgeable person than anyone I know, go ahead and confront them.
If no, then realise it's not a big deal anyway and hopefully they'll come around in their own time.
D&D is just story telling with a few stats mixed with dice rolls to help keep it grounded. It's not a competition where cheating will be the difference between actual money or anything. I'm assuming that there are no prizes involved. You're all there to have fun, and if he has more fun with a couple of 18s in his rolled stats and an extra feat and it's not harming other people's fun, then let him have it.
Sure, he lied to you about it and it sucks that he felt the need to cover up his acts, but consider this: Why did you feel the need to confront him over a consequenceless action that he obviously felt would make him happier and harmed no one? If someone confronted me about it, I'd feel the need to cover it up - that they confronted me would make me feel that I can't be open with them. If it's that my self esteem was really low, then I definitely wouldn't be open with someone that got upset over me changing a D&D character sheet.
What I'm saying is, no, he shouldn't have done it, but take this as an opportunity to realise that your relationship isn't where you'd like it to be, almost certainly due to attitudes on both sides. Trying to prove him wrong or a liar will not help that. Instead, try and help him get that ego boost from legitimate sources instead. Is he boosting his strength score so he can hit harder with a sword? Then hide a magic sword in the next chest he searches that will give him a +2. Make his character legitimately awesome, so he doesn't feel the need to cheat and can take pride in how his character legitimately contributes. Is he a Wizard boosting his Int? Group up Orcs so his Fireball wipes out half an army, you can find character appropriate ways of doing this.
Then work on your relationship so he feels more comfortable opening up to you, that he doesn't feel judged. Then if there's a next time, he'll be honest, and you can do these things in a more open way. That's not going to happen if you turn it into a court case where you have conclusively and publicly proven that he changed his Str Mod to a +4 instead of a +3.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I've got a small issue currently where it either could be a misunderstanding or a player scrambling when caught.
Has anyone here had issues before with ability scores, feats, or ability score improvements being inconsistent between what the player in the campaign sees versus what the DM sees I'm not talking about the delay that usually clears up overnight, but a long-term misalignment of information over a series of months.
I've had suspicions before with this player, but I just found that one of the feats they took was manually turned on and remained on their sheet while they then switched their feat choice to an ASI instead without asking. I tell them I see this issue, also bringing up other suspicious events surrounding their sheet, calmly stating how they need to be asking me to switch anything out.
I took screenshots and all, but only after I message them about this does their sheet start to periodically (as I kept refreshing, seeing it change bit by bit) update to what they now claim their sheet to have. I haven't had an issue with this for any other player in the campaign.
Has this happened to anyone else? Specifically a bug in which (for months) a sheet is displayed to the DM of a campaign as something entirely different than what the player sees.
EDIT: This isn't the first time it's happened either. They were an accuracy machine when we started the campaign, then looked at their sheet to find they had much higher stats than the others (we used point buy or array; player choice). I confront them about how their stats are much higher, complete with a screenshot. Only then when I ask them does it change on DnD Beyond. Then they're suddenly at +0 STR and missing all the time, since they have a massive number missing from their rolls to hit.
They've also changed their feat before without checking first. I'm just so unsure about this player sometimes.
First - It's not D&D Beyond. Your player is a cheaty little cheat cheat. And based on what your wrote, they're not going to stop of their own accord.
Second - At some point you're going to have to make a choice. Either 1) kick them from the group, 2) leave the group yourself, 3) just accept that he's going to cheat, or 4) find a way to prevent him from cheating.
If you want to prevent him from cheating, the simplest thing is to keep a backup record of their stats/feats/etc. Spot-check their sheet from time to time, and call them out if they do it again. Heck, tell them the next time it happens you're going to bring it to the whole group. If you don't want to call them out in front of everyone like that, tell all the players that each time they level up, they need to export their sheet to a pdf and email it to you. Above all, make them admit that they're actually cheating, even if only to you. Nothing will EVER improve if they can't even come clean about it.
Ultimately only you can decide the proper course of action, but clearly the status quo isn't fun for you, and fun is the whole point of playing D&D.
Yeah, the problem here is that it's happened before. Which is why I was curious what would happen if I took a screenshot of their sheet before messaging them and then after, if anything would change again in the same way only at that time. Surprise surprise, it happened exactly the same way.
Even more troubling is that the couple of players I asked for advice (that are arguably the rules lawyers of the group too) don't care if someone's changing a few things on their sheet; they don't think it's cheating. Now the group is victimizing me for being so serious. And honestly, I'm not even mad about them changing their sheet as much as not admitting it and just hurriedly changing it to cover themselves and letting me take all this heat over their mistake. Even if the reality is just, "Oh I thought you'd be okay with it" or "I was just messing around with it a little bit, I switched it back, sorry about the confusion" or just simply "sorry" - they just deny and make me have to get mad over this small thing. I'm mad that a friend is lying to my face about just a game more than the actual type of cheating.
The game issue is if they can't even be honest about this, how many other times have they cheated or how many future times will they cheat, since we do physical rolled dice between trusted friends with an honour system. This person got 3 nat 20s last session; did they? Not sure. It's just painful to see someone lying to their friends for no reason other than to not lose at playing make-believe.
The flip side to this is that it’s just painful to see someone getting so worked up over lying to not lose at make-believe. I played with an incorrigible cheater for about a decade. His IRL life was so awful, winning at make-believe is the one thing that gave him any joy. Since he wasn’t actually hurting anyone and I never trusted him with anything important or real life, what difference did it really make whether he cheated or not? I let him wring what relief from reality he could, the only place he could.
You never know what someone else is going through; opt for kindness whenever you can. Also, choosing your battles carefully can make your own life more peaceful. There are better hills to die on than this one IMHO.
Kindness to cheater. No. The cheater is cheating and stressing me and other players. The bogus excuse of "I having a bad life and cheating at make believe brings me joy" is a bogus excuse. I am a DM and Player. I am not a cheater's life coach or support system .
I like the idea of having the players (all of them so you are not singling them out) export the pdf and send it to you at each level up. If it’s that important to you the little extra bookkeeping shouldn’t be too onerous.
that said, if the player likes to fiddle around in the DDB character builder then tell them to make a copy (easy to do. It’s under the character menu, Edit, View, Copy, Delete). They can fiddle around all they want with the copy and it won’t affect the campaign copy.
I do that a lot with my Druid when I’m considering my spell preparations after a long rest. If I know I want to switch something, in between sessions, I change it on my copy and when we long rest I can quickly make adjustments to my campaign version without holding up gameplay.
Session zero message to everyone, and a reminder every three sessions or so:
"I am totally fine with you changing your character around if you're not happy with how it's playing. Just don't do it so often it's weird and distracting, and tell me if and when you do that - I may also be able to give suggestions. Anything else is cheating."
It seems very clear the player is intentionally cheating, and I'd be (internally) furious. But give them a reasonable way to not cheat, and hopefully all is well.
I've got a wizard who always "forgets" their used spell slots and "misreads" all their spells. That's ok. I just choose to assume they're a bit of a ditz and "help" them keep track. I have the spells ready for refence and a little tally section on my note pad. Everyone is just thinks I have a super-awesome memory and that I am very helpful
Quote from MrCameronA>>The game issue is if they can't even be honest about this, how many other times have they cheated or how many future times will they cheat, since we do physical rolled dice between trusted friends with an honour system. This person got 3 nat 20s last session; did they? Not sure. It's just painful to see someone lying to their friends for no reason other than to not lose at playing make-believe.
I played Curse Of Strahd with an online group on Roll20. Most of us rolled digitally using Roll20's commands, but our Paladin always rolled his own dice where we couldn't see. He NEVER missed, even when using Great Weapon Master, and his nat20 percentage defied all laws of math or physics. I don't know how the other players felt, but it was incredibly frustrating for me. I hadn't quite gotten to the "bad D&D is worse than no D&D" stage of my life yet, or I probably would've left.
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Hey everyone,
I've got a small issue currently where it either could be a misunderstanding or a player scrambling when caught.
Has anyone here had issues before with ability scores, feats, or ability score improvements being inconsistent between what the player in the campaign sees versus what the DM sees I'm not talking about the delay that usually clears up overnight, but a long-term misalignment of information over a series of months.
I've had suspicions before with this player, but I just found that one of the feats they took was manually turned on and remained on their sheet while they then switched their feat choice to an ASI instead without asking. I tell them I see this issue, also bringing up other suspicious events surrounding their sheet, calmly stating how they need to be asking me to switch anything out.
I took screenshots and all, but only after I message them about this does their sheet start to periodically (as I kept refreshing, seeing it change bit by bit) update to what they now claim their sheet to have. I haven't had an issue with this for any other player in the campaign.
Has this happened to anyone else? Specifically a bug in which (for months) a sheet is displayed to the DM of a campaign as something entirely different than what the player sees.
EDIT: This isn't the first time it's happened either. They were an accuracy machine when we started the campaign, then looked at their sheet to find they had much higher stats than the others (we used point buy or array; player choice). I confront them about how their stats are much higher, complete with a screenshot. Only then when I ask them does it change on DnD Beyond. Then they're suddenly at +0 STR and missing all the time, since they have a massive number missing from their rolls to hit.
They've also changed their feat before without checking first. I'm just so unsure about this player sometimes.
DDB does not glitch in the ways described. There is one character sheet, and the DM for a campaign simply has view/edit permissions for that same document. Using 'Manage Feats' to add a feat and then using an ASI as an ASI could simply be confusion and unfamiliarity with the system. Frankly, so could stat nonsense. But if the sheet is being corrected to what it should be without needing you to inform them of what it should be and how to do so? Well, I can see why you'd suspect cheating.
Cheating in D&D isn't the end of the world, though. If the player is otherwise fun and enjoyable to have around, simply pull them aside and have a quiet talk about their goals and why they feel the need to go behind everybody's backs to do these things. I know some players chafe hard at the low numbers and lack of opportunity to make cool character choices forced on them by the default Standard Array system - our own table has long since abandoned it for a modified homebrew system that works much better for us and we're all quite pleased with it - but that still doesn't really excuse this kind of chicanery. A calm, adult conversation with the player should ideally do the trick.
Please do not contact or message me.
What I do is save my players character sheets as PDF, mainly for my own record keeping because I keep a binder with their characters. Each time they level up I will resave and print it and at the end of the campaign I save their character development for sentimental value. My point is, I feel like the saving method might actually help you see and keep track of noticeable changes that effect gameplay. Overall I don't see a wild issue in this behavior but it does give an unfair advantage over the players that are keeping to what they have.
Best of luck with whatever you decide, but I would ask them in private just to see if maybe there's something that would make the game more enjoyable to them to mitigate this kind of behavior!
Yeah, I tried just showing them what I've noticed, and offered to them "Would you want to just shift around your PCs stats? If you're unhappy with what you have, we can discuss it." But they just denied it all and edited their sheet as soon as I messaged them in regards to the concern. Asked other players for their advice, and it's now led to a blowing up of the campaign as a whole, so the journey is likely over there.
There are of course ways to remedy it, but a I think I'm at a point where they don't respect the work I put in for them, so It's time to just save the friendship and forget about Dungeons & Dragons with this particular friend group, even if it just comes down to the solution being that I'm not the DM. It seems like they're growing to just want their DM to be a facilitator and not a storyteller, so that doesn't align with what I see DnD as.
Either way, we're all planning a meeting to just air concerns and issues. My mind's mostly made up already, though, even if it pains me to say goodbye to hundreds of hours of gameplay and planning.
So, with DnDBeyond, it's easy for a player to add and change things because they want to experiment. I had this problem when playing a wizard. After about three levels, and having been given some spells by the DM, my spell book was all kinds of wrong. I had to write down exactly what I was given and what I picked from leveling, and then make sure I covered the cost of the ones the DM gave me. I eventually worked it out and felt like I wasn't doing anything wrong. But I could see where a player would add and remove options from the character sheet and then get mixed up on what happened.
In the end, I would simply have told your player, "Hey, Bob, I noticed you have two feats. I didn't think you could have two feats yet. Can you explain how you got them both? Oh, you're not sure. Ok. Can you remove one of them? Thanks." Sometimes it's just easier to pretend you don't know what's going on.
I've had a player who constantly pushed the limits of attention span to rules around the table. Their characters where always interesting, especially where 'random' options where concerned. Also the kind who would rollandscoop in one motion, declaring the results.
You can spend the energy keeping on top of it, probably worth it if they're part of your friends circle. Or be clear, warn them, and if they carry on, then remove them.
In general players cheat when they think, they can't trust the DM and they have to succeed to "win" the game.
Talk to your players, see what his expectations are and assure them, that you never would betray their trust, that failure in this game gives chance for great roleplay and is enjoyable as well.
All our heroes have great stories because they failed in the past. Figure out what they want to play and talk to them, how this can happen in your game and what "failure" is okay with them.
Wish you the best and have fun!
First - It's not D&D Beyond. Your player is a cheaty little cheat cheat. And based on what your wrote, they're not going to stop of their own accord.
Second - At some point you're going to have to make a choice. Either 1) kick them from the group, 2) leave the group yourself, 3) just accept that he's going to cheat, or 4) find a way to prevent him from cheating.
If you want to prevent him from cheating, the simplest thing is to keep a backup record of their stats/feats/etc. Spot-check their sheet from time to time, and call them out if they do it again. Heck, tell them the next time it happens you're going to bring it to the whole group. If you don't want to call them out in front of everyone like that, tell all the players that each time they level up, they need to export their sheet to a pdf and email it to you. Above all, make them admit that they're actually cheating, even if only to you. Nothing will EVER improve if they can't even come clean about it.
Ultimately only you can decide the proper course of action, but clearly the status quo isn't fun for you, and fun is the whole point of playing D&D.
Yeah, the problem here is that it's happened before. Which is why I was curious what would happen if I took a screenshot of their sheet before messaging them and then after, if anything would change again in the same way only at that time. Surprise surprise, it happened exactly the same way.
Even more troubling is that the couple of players I asked for advice (that are arguably the rules lawyers of the group too) don't care if someone's changing a few things on their sheet; they don't think it's cheating. Now the group is victimizing me for being so serious. And honestly, I'm not even mad about them changing their sheet as much as not admitting it and just hurriedly changing it to cover themselves and letting me take all this heat over their mistake. Even if the reality is just, "Oh I thought you'd be okay with it" or "I was just messing around with it a little bit, I switched it back, sorry about the confusion" or just simply "sorry" - they just deny and make me have to get mad over this small thing. I'm mad that a friend is lying to my face about just a game more than the actual type of cheating.
The game issue is if they can't even be honest about this, how many other times have they cheated or how many future times will they cheat, since we do physical rolled dice between trusted friends with an honour system. This person got 3 nat 20s last session; did they? Not sure. It's just painful to see someone lying to their friends for no reason other than to not lose at playing make-believe.
The flip side to this is that it’s just painful to see someone getting so worked up over lying to not lose at make-believe. I played with an incorrigible cheater for about a decade. His IRL life was so awful, winning at make-believe is the one thing that gave him any joy. Since he wasn’t actually hurting anyone and I never trusted him with anything important or real life, what difference did it really make whether he cheated or not? I let him wring what relief from reality he could, the only place he could.
You never know what someone else is going through; opt for kindness whenever you can. Also, choosing your battles carefully can make your own life more peaceful. There are better hills to die on than this one IMHO.
I have a decision tree for you.
(1) Does his cheating actually negatively affect anyone?
If yes, then go to (2).
If no, go to (3).
(2) Is that negative effect worth perilising your friendship or relationship over?
If yes, confront them with evidence. Hope it's worth it.
If no, then as harsh as it sounds, realise that it's best to just get over yourself. It's a game, not worth fighting over. It's not even a competitive one.
(3) Are you their moral judge that also knows everything that's going on their life to know that this behaviour is definitely out of line and needs to be correct by you, and you know forma surety that by confronting them, it would be cause them to repent rather than just make things worse?
If yes, then you are a far better and knowledgeable person than anyone I know, go ahead and confront them.
If no, then realise it's not a big deal anyway and hopefully they'll come around in their own time.
D&D is just story telling with a few stats mixed with dice rolls to help keep it grounded. It's not a competition where cheating will be the difference between actual money or anything. I'm assuming that there are no prizes involved. You're all there to have fun, and if he has more fun with a couple of 18s in his rolled stats and an extra feat and it's not harming other people's fun, then let him have it.
Sure, he lied to you about it and it sucks that he felt the need to cover up his acts, but consider this: Why did you feel the need to confront him over a consequenceless action that he obviously felt would make him happier and harmed no one? If someone confronted me about it, I'd feel the need to cover it up - that they confronted me would make me feel that I can't be open with them. If it's that my self esteem was really low, then I definitely wouldn't be open with someone that got upset over me changing a D&D character sheet.
What I'm saying is, no, he shouldn't have done it, but take this as an opportunity to realise that your relationship isn't where you'd like it to be, almost certainly due to attitudes on both sides. Trying to prove him wrong or a liar will not help that. Instead, try and help him get that ego boost from legitimate sources instead. Is he boosting his strength score so he can hit harder with a sword? Then hide a magic sword in the next chest he searches that will give him a +2. Make his character legitimately awesome, so he doesn't feel the need to cheat and can take pride in how his character legitimately contributes. Is he a Wizard boosting his Int? Group up Orcs so his Fireball wipes out half an army, you can find character appropriate ways of doing this.
Then work on your relationship so he feels more comfortable opening up to you, that he doesn't feel judged. Then if there's a next time, he'll be honest, and you can do these things in a more open way. That's not going to happen if you turn it into a court case where you have conclusively and publicly proven that he changed his Str Mod to a +4 instead of a +3.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Kindness to cheater. No. The cheater is cheating and stressing me and other players. The bogus excuse of "I having a bad life and cheating at make believe brings me joy" is a bogus excuse. I am a DM and Player. I am not a cheater's life coach or support system .
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
I like the idea of having the players (all of them so you are not singling them out) export the pdf and send it to you at each level up. If it’s that important to you the little extra bookkeeping shouldn’t be too onerous.
that said, if the player likes to fiddle around in the DDB character builder then tell them to make a copy (easy to do. It’s under the character menu, Edit, View, Copy, Delete). They can fiddle around all they want with the copy and it won’t affect the campaign copy.
I do that a lot with my Druid when I’m considering my spell preparations after a long rest. If I know I want to switch something, in between sessions, I change it on my copy and when we long rest I can quickly make adjustments to my campaign version without holding up gameplay.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Session zero message to everyone, and a reminder every three sessions or so:
"I am totally fine with you changing your character around if you're not happy with how it's playing. Just don't do it so often it's weird and distracting, and tell me if and when you do that - I may also be able to give suggestions. Anything else is cheating."
It seems very clear the player is intentionally cheating, and I'd be (internally) furious. But give them a reasonable way to not cheat, and hopefully all is well.
I've got a wizard who always "forgets" their used spell slots and "misreads" all their spells. That's ok. I just choose to assume they're a bit of a ditz and "help" them keep track. I have the spells ready for refence and a little tally section on my note pad. Everyone is just thinks I have a super-awesome memory and that I am very helpful
I played Curse Of Strahd with an online group on Roll20. Most of us rolled digitally using Roll20's commands, but our Paladin always rolled his own dice where we couldn't see. He NEVER missed, even when using Great Weapon Master, and his nat20 percentage defied all laws of math or physics. I don't know how the other players felt, but it was incredibly frustrating for me. I hadn't quite gotten to the "bad D&D is worse than no D&D" stage of my life yet, or I probably would've left.