I'm DMing a group of six players, and we're playing through the Out of the Abyss campaign. The party just escaped the drow outpost and have started navigating the wilderness. In 3 hours, the party got through 5 days of travel. The problem is that I while I had hoped they would travel to Sloobludop, the closest settlement, they instead chose to travel towards Neverlight Grove. The issue here is that the trek to Neverlight Grove takes 36 days from their current location. Everyone in the party seemed to enjoy the last session, there were a couple encounters and they party enjoys combat, but I'm worried that 4 or 5 more sessions of nothing but travel will get boring. Even if I use unique encounters like the Oozing Temple, the Silken Road, and the Lost Tomb of Khaem, the monotony may still get tiresome.
I'm considering introducing a development that will encourage or force the players to go to Sloobludop so I can advance the plot. At the same time, it feels wrong to override the players' free choice and railroad them down a certain path just because its more convenient for me. Should I just work harder to introduce story advancement and develop the NPCs the party is travelling with, or would it just be better to encourage the players to visit the Underdark settlements so I can advance the plot as the campaign intended?
Have them roll a Survival (or navigator's tools) check each day to navigate. When they eventually fail, have them get lost and wind up in Sloobludop.
Or, even better, put Sloobludop in between them and their destination.
Or you could just go along with what they want to do until they start showing signs of getting tired of it. That's probably the best idea, now that I think about it.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
I voted the "allow the players to carry on their current path, working had as a DM to add excitement to the journey" option, but I have one major caveat; Work smarter, not harder.
To that end, I suggest using an online die roller to batch roll some random encounter checks (the DMG suggests a check of 1d20, 18+ means an encounter, with the interval of the check being hourly, every 4-8 hours, or once while traveling and once while resting depending on how much activity is in the area), and filling in details of the encounters that randomly come up based on when they happen and the terrain being traveled through.
Adding variety is also good; have some combat encounters, sure, but encounters like other travelers, indigenous peoples going about their day-to-day activities (or even having troubles they could use a side-questing hand with), "normal" creatures that live in the area (think the equivalent of a small herd of deer crossing a highway, or spotting a moose along a road in Canada), plants that are dangerous but not exactly sentient or mobile, and also some more simple descriptions of stuff that happens as a part of traveling and oportunity to role-play about it (for example: the party could end up having to cross some small body of water, and in doing so be stuck with some leeches, so they stop, start a fire to dry off and deal with the leeches, and role-play a bit about how much it sucks to be out in the wilderness for so long - and you can count that as an encounter and hand out some XP even if you don't also decide to have some kind of mechanical risk for the characters, like catching some sort of disease from the leeches unless they pass a Constitution saving throw) can help keep everything from feeling monotonous.
That is tough, but ultimately, it's usually more rewarding to go with the players' direction. The plot can still advance just as well. Either get them to go to Sloobludop afterwards, or have (so-and-so) appear somewhere else. After all, the primary purpose of Sloobludop is letting the PCs know of those beings' arrival. That could technically be anywhere with any of them. In the game I'm running, I'm tempted to have them come across the remains of (Mr. Famous Wand's) arrival and the illithid colony. It doesn't have to be Sloobludop nor does it have to be (so-and-so).
Overall, however, I found you do need to mix up the travel some. The mini-encounter locations can work, but random encounters and 4 or 5 sessions of travel sounds like it will get monotonous. Try to encourage player creativity, however. For example, we had the "rocktopus" random encounter, but the PCs were very low on supplies and knew that meat would spoil before long. So they decided to try making jerky out of it. Also tried skinning it to make waterskins since they only had 1 between them. Took 5 tentacles before they could get it right, but having the players trying to figure out basic survival stuff kept it interesting. Actually seeing them get nervous about failing a check knowing there was only so much hide left was fun. Ultimately, you can hand wave many of those days by just describing the endless monotony of tunnel after tunnel after tunnel and the tough fungus they scrounge for food losing all taste - in fact, narrating that monotony could even convey the feeling better than playing it out over 4 or 5 sessions (and would certainly be more fun). After they start to get repetitive and into a routine, ask them if they want to make a big roll to see how the next couple weeks go (but maybe let them come up with ideas to try to get advantage or something) and having one big roll determine how starved and exhausted they are on the last half of the trip can be exciting since so much rides on it.
One thing you want to avoid is punishing the players into going a certain story direction. Nothing good ever really comes from that. If you really want them to go to Sloobludop first, entice them with seeing the dim lights of the small town in the distance of the Darklake, or boats loaded with supplies far off that way. But, in my experience, it is usually a lot more work, but going off the rails occasionally on player whim almost always leads to a more interesting campaign. They feel involved, you are surprised as well which gets the creative juices churning, and often the story is even better than if you went by the book.
Before your next session begins, you could create a few minor setpiece encounters similar to the ones in the book. Perhaps something with ghouls which foreshadows Orcus?
I've ran OotA and it can certainly get boring with travel. Our group enjoyed it the most when we would just time dash forward with a couple of challenging encounters thrown in. I also allowed them to help narrate the story of what happened during the time they were traveling. This worked pretty well for us.
I also endorse just letting them go to where they want to go. If it has a fatal outcome for the characters, so be it. The Underdark is a dangerous place.
I also like Thucydides recommendation to foreshadow Orcus.
I do like the idea of foreshadowing Orcus. It will work really well with my group, for the reasons you mentioned and because of one of my player's characters. He's playing a necromancer whose master went insane. I talked with him about his backstory and he told me he wanted the reason his teacher went insane to be a mystery (even to him), pretty much giving me free reign as DM. I had planned to eventually tie his master's insanity and the character's destiny to Orcus (since he is the demon lord of undeath), so this would be a good way to get the foreshadowing for both the overall story and that subplot going.
The easiest way to neverlight Grove is through the darkpake which is able to accessed through sloopludoop. I also want to point out this means they are going AROUND the darklake to neverlight Grove. With these things in mind for future dms running this game, you can easily move the kuo toa encounter and pull then to sloopludoop, or entice players with better passage at the city. Imma be honest I don't find random encounters fun nor does my players so its easier to set things up ahead of time and to use the sidequests and make your own side quests and encounters so that the world feels alive. The underdark is a weird and threatening place, it's cool to use that to your advabtage
I'm about 90% finished OotA (58 sessions in) with my live group. There's a lot I did and there's even more I didn't do, that I wish I had. If I were to run OotA again (ugh... I'd have to get paid!!), I would organize it differently:
Tier 1 (levels 1-4): The characters have nothing and are being chased. Micro manage travel pace, food, water, foraging, crafting, etc... This tier is about surviving and acquiring the necessities. Travel is day by day random encounters and put a heavy emphasis on the drow chasing them, so electing to fight every encounter slows the party down and/or makes it easier for the drow to figure out which way you've gone. Can take many sessions to travel to a particular destination.
Tier 2 (levels 5-9): Travel is conceptualized as a days worth of encounters, with the named encounters interspersed between the encounter days. Choose and pick from the random encounter tables. The focus at this stage is discovering the story: Demon Lords everywhere. Madness affecting everyone. And finally, escaping to the surface. Can take a session to travel to a particular destination.
Tier 3 (levels 10-14): The party chose to go back to the Underdark to deal with the Demon Lords. Travel becomes skill challenges that are designed to deplete resources before arriving at a destination, where an 'encounter' happens. Takes about half a session to travel to any particular destination.
The biggest thing I'd do differently is switch to milestone leveling right from the beginning. XP leveling encourages murder-hoboing everything.
I agree with most of what they said overall, however I will say pay attention to the group with the traveling some groups and players might like this style of play, others.... not so much, so keep a eye on your group and don't be afraid to switch it up.
I have a few issues with the adventure in that gracklstugh is a rather weak chapter, and the second half feels rushed through. In addition for the module of demon lords, it doesn't handle the demon lords well in my opinion. 5 of the demon lords aren't really relevant through the story (over half!?!?!) At least a couple of which can be interesting in other ways besides a boss fight. They also just don't do enough with the demon lords that are relevant. So I'd definitely add material because otherwise the villains and the final boss fight aren't going to be as interesting. I'd also do a lot of research into the demon lords because adding that extra flavor is just the icing on the cake with these guys.
I can't understand what you mean. Gracklstugh is a busy chapter with so many details to touch on... AND it has it's own fully mapped dungeon that ties into many of the plot points in the chapter.
I can't understand what you mean. Gracklstugh is a busy chapter with so many details to touch on... AND it has it's own fully mapped dungeon that ties into many of the plot points in the chapter.
A lot of these are not fleshed out, and there is a lot for the DM to do to present a cohesive part of the campaign.
I'm DMing a group of six players, and we're playing through the Out of the Abyss campaign. The party just escaped the drow outpost and have started navigating the wilderness. In 3 hours, the party got through 5 days of travel. The problem is that I while I had hoped they would travel to Sloobludop, the closest settlement, they instead chose to travel towards Neverlight Grove. The issue here is that the trek to Neverlight Grove takes 36 days from their current location. Everyone in the party seemed to enjoy the last session, there were a couple encounters and they party enjoys combat, but I'm worried that 4 or 5 more sessions of nothing but travel will get boring. Even if I use unique encounters like the Oozing Temple, the Silken Road, and the Lost Tomb of Khaem, the monotony may still get tiresome.
I'm considering introducing a development that will encourage or force the players to go to Sloobludop so I can advance the plot. At the same time, it feels wrong to override the players' free choice and railroad them down a certain path just because its more convenient for me. Should I just work harder to introduce story advancement and develop the NPCs the party is travelling with, or would it just be better to encourage the players to visit the Underdark settlements so I can advance the plot as the campaign intended?
Have them roll a Survival (or navigator's tools) check each day to navigate. When they eventually fail, have them get lost and wind up in Sloobludop.
Or, even better, put Sloobludop in between them and their destination.
Or you could just go along with what they want to do until they start showing signs of getting tired of it. That's probably the best idea, now that I think about it.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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I voted the "allow the players to carry on their current path, working had as a DM to add excitement to the journey" option, but I have one major caveat; Work smarter, not harder.
To that end, I suggest using an online die roller to batch roll some random encounter checks (the DMG suggests a check of 1d20, 18+ means an encounter, with the interval of the check being hourly, every 4-8 hours, or once while traveling and once while resting depending on how much activity is in the area), and filling in details of the encounters that randomly come up based on when they happen and the terrain being traveled through.
Adding variety is also good; have some combat encounters, sure, but encounters like other travelers, indigenous peoples going about their day-to-day activities (or even having troubles they could use a side-questing hand with), "normal" creatures that live in the area (think the equivalent of a small herd of deer crossing a highway, or spotting a moose along a road in Canada), plants that are dangerous but not exactly sentient or mobile, and also some more simple descriptions of stuff that happens as a part of traveling and oportunity to role-play about it (for example: the party could end up having to cross some small body of water, and in doing so be stuck with some leeches, so they stop, start a fire to dry off and deal with the leeches, and role-play a bit about how much it sucks to be out in the wilderness for so long - and you can count that as an encounter and hand out some XP even if you don't also decide to have some kind of mechanical risk for the characters, like catching some sort of disease from the leeches unless they pass a Constitution saving throw) can help keep everything from feeling monotonous.
That is tough, but ultimately, it's usually more rewarding to go with the players' direction. The plot can still advance just as well. Either get them to go to Sloobludop afterwards, or have (so-and-so) appear somewhere else. After all, the primary purpose of Sloobludop is letting the PCs know of those beings' arrival. That could technically be anywhere with any of them. In the game I'm running, I'm tempted to have them come across the remains of (Mr. Famous Wand's) arrival and the illithid colony. It doesn't have to be Sloobludop nor does it have to be (so-and-so).
Overall, however, I found you do need to mix up the travel some. The mini-encounter locations can work, but random encounters and 4 or 5 sessions of travel sounds like it will get monotonous. Try to encourage player creativity, however. For example, we had the "rocktopus" random encounter, but the PCs were very low on supplies and knew that meat would spoil before long. So they decided to try making jerky out of it. Also tried skinning it to make waterskins since they only had 1 between them. Took 5 tentacles before they could get it right, but having the players trying to figure out basic survival stuff kept it interesting. Actually seeing them get nervous about failing a check knowing there was only so much hide left was fun. Ultimately, you can hand wave many of those days by just describing the endless monotony of tunnel after tunnel after tunnel and the tough fungus they scrounge for food losing all taste - in fact, narrating that monotony could even convey the feeling better than playing it out over 4 or 5 sessions (and would certainly be more fun). After they start to get repetitive and into a routine, ask them if they want to make a big roll to see how the next couple weeks go (but maybe let them come up with ideas to try to get advantage or something) and having one big roll determine how starved and exhausted they are on the last half of the trip can be exciting since so much rides on it.
One thing you want to avoid is punishing the players into going a certain story direction. Nothing good ever really comes from that. If you really want them to go to Sloobludop first, entice them with seeing the dim lights of the small town in the distance of the Darklake, or boats loaded with supplies far off that way. But, in my experience, it is usually a lot more work, but going off the rails occasionally on player whim almost always leads to a more interesting campaign. They feel involved, you are surprised as well which gets the creative juices churning, and often the story is even better than if you went by the book.
Either way, good luck!
Before your next session begins, you could create a few minor setpiece encounters similar to the ones in the book. Perhaps something with ghouls which foreshadows Orcus?
I've ran OotA and it can certainly get boring with travel. Our group enjoyed it the most when we would just time dash forward with a couple of challenging encounters thrown in. I also allowed them to help narrate the story of what happened during the time they were traveling. This worked pretty well for us.
I also endorse just letting them go to where they want to go. If it has a fatal outcome for the characters, so be it. The Underdark is a dangerous place.
I also like Thucydides recommendation to foreshadow Orcus.
Hope this helps with the fun!
I do like the idea of foreshadowing Orcus. It will work really well with my group, for the reasons you mentioned and because of one of my player's characters. He's playing a necromancer whose master went insane. I talked with him about his backstory and he told me he wanted the reason his teacher went insane to be a mystery (even to him), pretty much giving me free reign as DM. I had planned to eventually tie his master's insanity and the character's destiny to Orcus (since he is the demon lord of undeath), so this would be a good way to get the foreshadowing for both the overall story and that subplot going.
The easiest way to neverlight Grove is through the darkpake which is able to accessed through sloopludoop. I also want to point out this means they are going AROUND the darklake to neverlight Grove. With these things in mind for future dms running this game, you can easily move the kuo toa encounter and pull then to sloopludoop, or entice players with better passage at the city. Imma be honest I don't find random encounters fun nor does my players so its easier to set things up ahead of time and to use the sidequests and make your own side quests and encounters so that the world feels alive. The underdark is a weird and threatening place, it's cool to use that to your advabtage
I'm about 90% finished OotA (58 sessions in) with my live group. There's a lot I did and there's even more I didn't do, that I wish I had. If I were to run OotA again (ugh... I'd have to get paid!!), I would organize it differently:
The biggest thing I'd do differently is switch to milestone leveling right from the beginning. XP leveling encourages murder-hoboing everything.
I agree with most of what they said overall, however I will say pay attention to the group with the traveling some groups and players might like this style of play, others.... not so much, so keep a eye on your group and don't be afraid to switch it up.
I have a few issues with the adventure in that gracklstugh is a rather weak chapter, and the second half feels rushed through. In addition for the module of demon lords, it doesn't handle the demon lords well in my opinion. 5 of the demon lords aren't really relevant through the story (over half!?!?!) At least a couple of which can be interesting in other ways besides a boss fight. They also just don't do enough with the demon lords that are relevant. So I'd definitely add material because otherwise the villains and the final boss fight aren't going to be as interesting. I'd also do a lot of research into the demon lords because adding that extra flavor is just the icing on the cake with these guys.
I can't understand what you mean. Gracklstugh is a busy chapter with so many details to touch on... AND it has it's own fully mapped dungeon that ties into many of the plot points in the chapter.
I mean its designed in a confusing manner is all I mean. I do agree there is a lot of details, but I think it isn't displayed well.
https://slyflourish.com/out_of_the_abyss_chapter_1.html
I have run this 3 times now, it is my fav published campaign to run. Sky Flourish article is a go to for me if you have not read it.
A lot of these are not fleshed out, and there is a lot for the DM to do to present a cohesive part of the campaign.
why are you lot necro'ing a 3 year old thread?
Didn't even twig that teaches me for replying when I am half asleep.
Would like to know then what the OP did and how it turned out.