So everyone here is trying to "fix" something that they never played with nor tested? Because I am certain the multimillion dollar company has already.
I despise white room theory crafting. Like do you people play spell casters? Or are you just wargaming DMS that are afraid that this will somehow ruin *your* fun? The people that I have talked to that have played it say they don't particularly care for the spell:
1) It eats up a spell choice, something that is very limited. 2) It eats up a spell slot. 3) It didn't work all the time.
One person was a Druid that got it with Fey Touched and regretted getting it because they were eating up spell slots with a 50% success rate of it doing what it needed to do.
As someone who regularly mains a caster this would be great early as a weak counter spell... but as Shield is functionally better at lower levels, I am not going to double up on reactions... if I DID take it, I would replace it with counter spell. Late game, thanks to multi-attack, and the legendary resistances, there isn't much value for this spell. It isn't going to see as much play as people think and with definitely will not be spammed. It will be great seeing it go off in a clutch moment, but it isn't going to break a game. Counter spell, Counter charm, cutting words, uncanny dodge/evasion don't. This spell wont.
50% success rate would be generous in the two games I am in, though one of the players does have the absolute worse luck and maybe bringing the average way down. His luck is bad enough that he used Barbs this past week to defend against a crit only to have the DM re-roll and get another natural 20. The DM does open rolling so no cheating on their part. I feel bad for him.
If you're using it against attacks against you I'd say your not even using the spell to is full potential.
If you have disadvantage on any you have only a 9% chance of rolling a 15 or higher ... So you use it on enemies who are saving against a spell.
Plus you get to use the ability only if they succeed so can wait to see if they use legendary resistance and not use it then.
Overall the points here are not really understanding the spell or how it really works in the players favor...
If you combo it with stuff like Highten Metamagic you make it so the creature has a very very small chance of saving.
And that's before you even give ADV to someone else....
It's definitely too much for a 1st level spell but perfect for 2nd level.
Well, the caster in question is a Wizard and doesn't have meta magic. The attack in question could not be blocked by Shield (since it doesn't affect crits.) And most importantly, it has never once caused a saving throw to fail for him. The spell has only worked for him once and that was when he negated a crit against an ally. He has only used it about 6 or 7 times at this point, but the average success rate for him is very very poor.
In the game I run, it is another wizard and he has only used it 5 times and has negated 1 crit and 1 save. So still less than 50%. I am certain that we are "playing wrong" though.
Ah fair points then.
To be clear, I am not saying that our experiences with the spell is common in anyway, just that it has not been OP in our games thus far. All though, another one of our players wants this spell for a healer just for the ability to negate crits against party members. She just wishes it were a cleric spell since she doesn't care for the Sorcerer class at all.
So everyone here is trying to "fix" something that they never played with nor tested? Because I am certain the multimillion dollar company has already.
I despise white room theory crafting. Like do you people play spell casters? Or are you just wargaming DMS that are afraid that this will somehow ruin *your* fun? The people that I have talked to that have played it say they don't particularly care for the spell:
1) It eats up a spell choice, something that is very limited. 2) It eats up a spell slot. 3) It didn't work all the time.
One person was a Druid that got it with Fey Touched and regretted getting it because they were eating up spell slots with a 50% success rate of it doing what it needed to do.
As someone who regularly mains a caster this would be great early as a weak counter spell... but as Shield is functionally better at lower levels, I am not going to double up on reactions... if I DID take it, I would replace it with counter spell. Late game, thanks to multi-attack, and the legendary resistances, there isn't much value for this spell. It isn't going to see as much play as people think and with definitely will not be spammed. It will be great seeing it go off in a clutch moment, but it isn't going to break a game. Counter spell, Counter charm, cutting words, uncanny dodge/evasion don't. This spell wont.
50% success rate would be generous in the two games I am in, though one of the players does have the absolute worse luck and maybe bringing the average way down. His luck is bad enough that he used Barbs this past week to defend against a crit only to have the DM re-roll and get another natural 20. The DM does open rolling so no cheating on their part. I feel bad for him.
If you're using it against attacks against you I'd say your not even using the spell to is full potential.
If you have disadvantage on any you have only a 9% chance of rolling a 15 or higher ... So you use it on enemies who are saving against a spell.
Plus you get to use the ability only if they succeed so can wait to see if they use legendary resistance and not use it then.
Overall the points here are not really understanding the spell or how it really works in the players favor...
If you combo it with stuff like Highten Metamagic you make it so the creature has a very very small chance of saving.
And that's before you even give ADV to someone else....
It's definitely too much for a 1st level spell but perfect for 2nd level.
Well, the caster in question is a Wizard and doesn't have meta magic. The attack in question could not be blocked by Shield (since it doesn't affect crits.) And most importantly, it has never once caused a saving throw to fail for him. The spell has only worked for him once and that was when he negated a crit against an ally. He has only used it about 6 or 7 times at this point, but the average success rate for him is very very poor.
In the game I run, it is another wizard and he has only used it 5 times and has negated 1 crit and 1 save. So still less than 50%. I am certain that we are "playing wrong" though.
Ah fair points then.
To be clear, I am not saying that our experiences with the spell is common in anyway, just that it has not been OP in our games thus far. All though, another one of our players wants this spell for a healer just for the ability to negate crits against party members. She just wishes it were a cleric spell since she doesn't care for the Sorcerer class at all.
Nah I get it... No worries
And I feel her pain about Sorcerer for sure... Clerics are where it's at.
So everyone here is trying to "fix" something that they never played with nor tested? Because I am certain the multimillion dollar company has already.
I despise white room theory crafting. Like do you people play spell casters? Or are you just wargaming DMS that are afraid that this will somehow ruin *your* fun? The people that I have talked to that have played it say they don't particularly care for the spell:
1) It eats up a spell choice, something that is very limited. 2) It eats up a spell slot. 3) It didn't work all the time.
One person was a Druid that got it with Fey Touched and regretted getting it because they were eating up spell slots with a 50% success rate of it doing what it needed to do.
As someone who regularly mains a caster this would be great early as a weak counter spell... but as Shield is functionally better at lower levels, I am not going to double up on reactions... if I DID take it, I would replace it with counter spell. Late game, thanks to multi-attack, and the legendary resistances, there isn't much value for this spell. It isn't going to see as much play as people think and with definitely will not be spammed. It will be great seeing it go off in a clutch moment, but it isn't going to break a game. Counter spell, Counter charm, cutting words, uncanny dodge/evasion don't. This spell wont.
I started a lv 1 caster after it came out, and I didn't take the spell at start because I just don't think it will serve me now. I will take it at lvl just to test it out after all off this. I do know that the comparable Chronomancer skill is not that big of game changer as I've tested that one out.
So everyone here is trying to "fix" something that they never played with nor tested? Because I am certain the multimillion dollar company has already.
I despise white room theory crafting. Like do you people play spell casters? Or are you just wargaming DMS that are afraid that this will somehow ruin *your* fun? The people that I have talked to that have played it say they don't particularly care for the spell:
1) It eats up a spell choice, something that is very limited. 2) It eats up a spell slot. 3) It didn't work all the time.
One person was a Druid that got it with Fey Touched and regretted getting it because they were eating up spell slots with a 50% success rate of it doing what it needed to do.
As someone who regularly mains a caster this would be great early as a weak counter spell... but as Shield is functionally better at lower levels, I am not going to double up on reactions... if I DID take it, I would replace it with counter spell. Late game, thanks to multi-attack, and the legendary resistances, there isn't much value for this spell. It isn't going to see as much play as people think and with definitely will not be spammed. It will be great seeing it go off in a clutch moment, but it isn't going to break a game. Counter spell, Counter charm, cutting words, uncanny dodge/evasion don't. This spell wont.
I started a lv 1 caster after it came out, and I didn't take the spell at start because I just don't think it will serve me now. I will take it at lvl just to test it out after all off this. I do know that the comparable Chronomancer skill is not that big of game changer as I've tested that one out.
The Wizard in the game I am running is playing a Chronugist and wanted the spell to basically gain extra uses of Chronal Shift. He hasn't had the best of luck with it, either ability really, but it has worked a couple times and he is having fun. As he said last session, "Some chance is better than no chance." The player I worry about is the guy in the group where I am a player. He has just garbage luck when it comes to dice rolls he makes and dice rolls made against him. He makes good choices, but things just seem to always go bad for him. He laughs it off, but I am sure it has got to be frustrating.
So everyone here is trying to "fix" something that they never played with nor tested? Because I am certain the multimillion dollar company has already.
I despise white room theory crafting. Like do you people play spell casters? Or are you just wargaming DMS that are afraid that this will somehow ruin *your* fun? The people that I have talked to that have played it say they don't particularly care for the spell:
1) It eats up a spell choice, something that is very limited. 2) It eats up a spell slot. 3) It didn't work all the time.
One person was a Druid that got it with Fey Touched and regretted getting it because they were eating up spell slots with a 50% success rate of it doing what it needed to do.
As someone who regularly mains a caster this would be great early as a weak counter spell... but as Shield is functionally better at lower levels, I am not going to double up on reactions... if I DID take it, I would replace it with counter spell. Late game, thanks to multi-attack, and the legendary resistances, there isn't much value for this spell. It isn't going to see as much play as people think and with definitely will not be spammed. It will be great seeing it go off in a clutch moment, but it isn't going to break a game. Counter spell, Counter charm, cutting words, uncanny dodge/evasion don't. This spell wont.
I started a lv 1 caster after it came out, and I didn't take the spell at start because I just don't think it will serve me now. I will take it at lvl just to test it out after all off this. I do know that the comparable Chronomancer skill is not that big of game changer as I've tested that one out.
The Wizard in the game I am running is playing a Chronugist and wanted the spell to basically gain extra uses of Chronal Shift. He hasn't had the best of luck with it, either ability really, but it has worked a couple times and he is having fun. As he said last session, "Some chance is better than no chance." The player I worry about is the guy in the group where I am a player. He has just garbage luck when it comes to dice rolls he makes and dice rolls made against him. He makes good choices, but things just seem to always go bad for him. He laughs it off, but I am sure it has got to be frustrating.
It is, funny thing is as a DM I don't have the same problem. This is of course not possible but I rolled the last four times I played two twenties. As a DM first minutes of last session I had four crits against the party. It's hilarious. I cry a bit inside every time it happens.
You know, when this poll was put out initial i just put "busted", but now I'm just like "eh, Imma put it on my NPC's, I don't care anymore". Especially after folks like treantmonk showed that it's not that OP. But definitely still a good spell nonetheless. The Gloriously Notorious Shield still takes that top spot. xP I've just lost the will/interest to care about this spell anymore lmao.
I've just lost the will/interest to care about this spell anymore lmao.
So why necro a thread that hasnt seen activity for two weeks?
two weeks is hardly dead. I suggest you turn your hostility towards folks who keep reviving years old threads with less than a full page of responses like is constantly happening on this site.
I've just lost the will/interest to care about this spell anymore lmao.
So why necro a thread that hasnt seen activity for two weeks?
two weeks is hardly dead. I suggest you turn your hostility towards folks who keep reviving years old threads with less than a full page of responses like is constantly happening on this site.
Id say two weeks is dead enough, as it propels the thread backwards two or three pages into the forum where most "foot traffic" on the site wont reach it. But sure, lets call this thread "bloodied" instead.
Why propel this thread back into the limelight unless you are wanting to prompt new discussion? The final point you want to make is you dont care about the spell, but if that is the case why not just let the thread actually die?
(P.S. You will be pleased to hear that I also will generally report comments that necro year-old threads as well. So I am already ahead of you on that account.)
You know, when this poll was put out initial i just put "busted", but now I'm just like "eh, Imma put it on my NPC's, I don't care anymore". Especially after folks like treantmonk showed that it's not that OP. But definitely still a good spell nonetheless. The Gloriously Notorious Shield still takes that top spot. xP I've just lost the will/interest to care about this spell anymore lmao.
Glad to see you have come around. Don't worry about Kaboom, I am still interested to hear what people think about the spell now that it has been in the world for a while.
I've been using this spell for 3 sessions now and its been working great. Its helped get past enemy spell saves more than once and negated several crits against party members. I've been using the bonus advantage for myself to help keep up concentration, it seems like a better use than giving one of the martials advantage for one attack.
It does feel pretty strong, but it really burns through the spell slots. I'm playing an aberrant mind so its castable with a sorcery point and the campaign is only a few fights a day so I've had plenty of resources so far.
Why would a DM ban spells? Or anything else if it is not forbidden in the rules?
Because not all content is a good fit for the game the DM is trying to run.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Why would a DM ban spells? Or anything else if it is not forbidden in the rules?
It doesn't fit the setting, DM thinks it's too OP or will take fun away from the game (such as folks who don't like counterspell, dispel magic, shield, etc), it's not a good fit for the style of the campaign, it's invokes a playstyle the DM doesn't want to have in their game, or DM just doesn't like it for whatever personal beef they have with it. Personal example in the spoiler.
I ban gith, verdan, warforged, and several other races from my homebrew world for several of the reasons above. I just hate the verdan because they are an affront to the coolness of gobbos. The gith just don't have a place in my world. I've run into various issues with a warforged as a PC before and don't want it. I already have an actual werewolf race and so I banned shifters. I banned custom lineage cuz I don't want someone to just waltz in with whatever the **** and have to tell them "no, that doesn't fit" over and over, so I got rid of it from the outset. Yuan-ti are kinda OP and ugly.
You know, when this poll was put out initial i just put "busted", but now I'm just like "eh, Imma put it on my NPC's, I don't care anymore". Especially after folks like treantmonk showed that it's not that OP. But definitely still a good spell nonetheless. The Gloriously Notorious Shield still takes that top spot. xP I've just lost the will/interest to care about this spell anymore lmao.
Glad to see you have come around. Don't worry about Kaboom, I am still interested to hear what people think about the spell now that it has been in the world for a while.
the spell hasn't been around too long and my players haven't had an encounter with it from an NPC yet, but how do DM's feel so far using it from their side? I've only used it once as a player, personally.
Update: I've continued to run this spell on a Clockwork Sorc/Order Cleric for weeks now and the impact is consistently higher than baseline expectation for any character. Not only does it provide decent switch-hitting defense/offense potential, it also lets allies get in extra hits, at advantage, on a consistent basis.
Is it broken, in terms of power? Maybe a little. But manageable. I'd put it into solid S+ tier for spells. With a build designed for maximizing it with additional rider effects it is probably too good, even for S tier.
Is it broken in terms of gameplay disruption? Absolutely yes. Interrupting the normal flow of events like this on a regular basis is annoying, and managing the turn sequence gets fuzzier. You're constantly on the lookout for rolls to disrupt, and when you do you're interjecting additional effects mid-resolution, and also then triggering even more additional steps for someone to need to resolve. Is it unbearable? I don't think so, but the "flow" of events is being repeatedly and consistently thrown out of wack.
I think I maintain my position that it is poorly designed and shouldn't exist, makes the game worse as a matter of simply being an option, overall is probably too universally useable but in not-your-turn situations. I think the core of my issue really does boil down to the fact that reactions, abilities that are outside your turn, should be narrow in scope, usability, or uses, or even a combination of all three. And that this spell is nearly universally usable with a unparalleled number of potential uses for a open ended reaction effect.
Should you ban it? Eh, that's a personal preference. ^ is my opinion and even I haven't banned it from my games. People have different tastes and if you want it then more power to you. But, at its core I think it is disruptive to the balance of spotlight sharing and proper turn-based flow and is inherently subversive to the intended design principles of a turn based game. But, ymmv.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You know, when this poll was put out initial i just put "busted", but now I'm just like "eh, Imma put it on my NPC's, I don't care anymore". Especially after folks like treantmonk showed that it's not that OP. But definitely still a good spell nonetheless. The Gloriously Notorious Shield still takes that top spot. xP I've just lost the will/interest to care about this spell anymore lmao.
Treantmonks videos are at best divisive and he's prone to "anger clicks" material.
Overall I think it's fine as a 2nd level
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To be clear, I am not saying that our experiences with the spell is common in anyway, just that it has not been OP in our games thus far. All though, another one of our players wants this spell for a healer just for the ability to negate crits against party members. She just wishes it were a cleric spell since she doesn't care for the Sorcerer class at all.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Nah I get it... No worries
And I feel her pain about Sorcerer for sure... Clerics are where it's at.
I started a lv 1 caster after it came out, and I didn't take the spell at start because I just don't think it will serve me now. I will take it at lvl just to test it out after all off this. I do know that the comparable Chronomancer skill is not that big of game changer as I've tested that one out.
The Wizard in the game I am running is playing a Chronugist and wanted the spell to basically gain extra uses of Chronal Shift. He hasn't had the best of luck with it, either ability really, but it has worked a couple times and he is having fun. As he said last session, "Some chance is better than no chance." The player I worry about is the guy in the group where I am a player. He has just garbage luck when it comes to dice rolls he makes and dice rolls made against him. He makes good choices, but things just seem to always go bad for him. He laughs it off, but I am sure it has got to be frustrating.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
It is, funny thing is as a DM I don't have the same problem. This is of course not possible but I rolled the last four times I played two twenties. As a DM first minutes of last session I had four crits against the party. It's hilarious. I cry a bit inside every time it happens.
You know, when this poll was put out initial i just put "busted", but now I'm just like "eh, Imma put it on my NPC's, I don't care anymore". Especially after folks like treantmonk showed that it's not that OP. But definitely still a good spell nonetheless. The Gloriously Notorious Shield still takes that top spot. xP I've just lost the will/interest to care about this spell anymore lmao.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
So why necro a thread that hasnt seen activity for two weeks?
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
two weeks is hardly dead. I suggest you turn your hostility towards folks who keep reviving years old threads with less than a full page of responses like is constantly happening on this site.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Id say two weeks is dead enough, as it propels the thread backwards two or three pages into the forum where most "foot traffic" on the site wont reach it. But sure, lets call this thread "bloodied" instead.
Why propel this thread back into the limelight unless you are wanting to prompt new discussion? The final point you want to make is you dont care about the spell, but if that is the case why not just let the thread actually die?
(P.S. You will be pleased to hear that I also will generally report comments that necro year-old threads as well. So I am already ahead of you on that account.)
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Glad to see you have come around. Don't worry about Kaboom, I am still interested to hear what people think about the spell now that it has been in the world for a while.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Why would a DM ban spells? Or anything else if it is not forbidden in the rules?
Because it doesn't fit in the game they want to run...
I would never expect a DM to run Marked Races outside of Eberron.
Yup. Our DM didn't want Warforged in his campaign.
I've no idea what Eberron is, so your point is lost on me.
It is a campaign world. It is very different from the Forgotten Realms. You should look into it some time.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I've been using this spell for 3 sessions now and its been working great. Its helped get past enemy spell saves more than once and negated several crits against party members. I've been using the bonus advantage for myself to help keep up concentration, it seems like a better use than giving one of the martials advantage for one attack.
It does feel pretty strong, but it really burns through the spell slots. I'm playing an aberrant mind so its castable with a sorcery point and the campaign is only a few fights a day so I've had plenty of resources so far.
Because not all content is a good fit for the game the DM is trying to run.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It doesn't fit the setting, DM thinks it's too OP or will take fun away from the game (such as folks who don't like counterspell, dispel magic, shield, etc), it's not a good fit for the style of the campaign, it's invokes a playstyle the DM doesn't want to have in their game, or DM just doesn't like it for whatever personal beef they have with it. Personal example in the spoiler.
I ban gith, verdan, warforged, and several other races from my homebrew world for several of the reasons above. I just hate the verdan because they are an affront to the coolness of gobbos. The gith just don't have a place in my world. I've run into various issues with a warforged as a PC before and don't want it. I already have an actual werewolf race and so I banned shifters. I banned custom lineage cuz I don't want someone to just waltz in with whatever the **** and have to tell them "no, that doesn't fit" over and over, so I got rid of it from the outset. Yuan-ti are kinda OP and ugly.
the spell hasn't been around too long and my players haven't had an encounter with it from an NPC yet, but how do DM's feel so far using it from their side? I've only used it once as a player, personally.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Update: I've continued to run this spell on a Clockwork Sorc/Order Cleric for weeks now and the impact is consistently higher than baseline expectation for any character. Not only does it provide decent switch-hitting defense/offense potential, it also lets allies get in extra hits, at advantage, on a consistent basis.
Is it broken, in terms of power? Maybe a little. But manageable. I'd put it into solid S+ tier for spells. With a build designed for maximizing it with additional rider effects it is probably too good, even for S tier.
Is it broken in terms of gameplay disruption? Absolutely yes. Interrupting the normal flow of events like this on a regular basis is annoying, and managing the turn sequence gets fuzzier. You're constantly on the lookout for rolls to disrupt, and when you do you're interjecting additional effects mid-resolution, and also then triggering even more additional steps for someone to need to resolve. Is it unbearable? I don't think so, but the "flow" of events is being repeatedly and consistently thrown out of wack.
I think I maintain my position that it is poorly designed and shouldn't exist, makes the game worse as a matter of simply being an option, overall is probably too universally useable but in not-your-turn situations. I think the core of my issue really does boil down to the fact that reactions, abilities that are outside your turn, should be narrow in scope, usability, or uses, or even a combination of all three. And that this spell is nearly universally usable with a unparalleled number of potential uses for a open ended reaction effect.
Should you ban it? Eh, that's a personal preference. ^ is my opinion and even I haven't banned it from my games. People have different tastes and if you want it then more power to you. But, at its core I think it is disruptive to the balance of spotlight sharing and proper turn-based flow and is inherently subversive to the intended design principles of a turn based game. But, ymmv.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Treantmonks videos are at best divisive and he's prone to "anger clicks" material.
Overall I think it's fine as a 2nd level